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  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 51,805
    Posts: 6,975
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    edited September 20, 2018
    There was a guy who literally got a warning for having a "bad attitude", if anyone remembers it, happened like over a month ago. They left forums because of that as well.

    Also, just re-checked CoC and I'm still kind of bothered by this part:
    - Baiting players to flame; derailing threads to incite an argument or negative behavior; and simply for the sake of causing trouble are not behavior accepted on the Nexon forums.

    As much as I remember, we didn't argue and we definitely didn't post anything negative. We were goofing around. Sure, Mods will say that I derailed stuff multiple times, but I really didn't do that on daily basis. It was a mistake. I'm a human. Tried really hard to behave after my last warning, avoided to say anything controversial or really mean. But I guess it wasn't enough.
    At this point, it's best to be and stay a lurker of the forums if you don't want to get misunderstood and banned over something silly.
    SherriHelsa
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,745
    Posts: 7,909
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    We're only human after all, so don't blame it on me...
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 51,805
    Posts: 6,975
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    edited September 20, 2018
    We're only human after all, so don't blame it on me...

    I didn't. And Mods are human too, they can make mistakes as well. :)
    Helsa
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,745
    Posts: 7,909
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    Greta wrote: »
    We're only human after all, so don't blame it on me...

    I didn't. And Mods are human too, they can make mistakes as well. :)

    It's a song. :D
    GretaSherri
  • SheenaSheena
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,515
    Posts: 381
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    SherriAsuriel
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    edited September 20, 2018
    Greta wrote: »
    There was a guy who literally got a warning for having a "bad attitude", if anyone remembers it, happened like over a month ago. They left forums because of that as well.

    Also, just re-checked CoC and I'm still kind of bothered by this part:
    - Baiting players to flame; derailing threads to incite an argument or negative behavior; and simply for the sake of causing trouble are not behavior accepted on the Nexon forums.

    As much as I remember, we didn't argue and we definitely didn't post anything negative. We were goofing around. Sure, Mods will say that I derailed stuff multiple times, but I really didn't do that on daily basis. It was a mistake. I'm a human. Tried really hard to behave after my last warning, avoided to say anything controversial or really mean. But I guess it wasn't enough.
    At this point, it's best to be and stay a lurker of the forums if you don't want to get misunderstood and banned over something silly.

    the part that bugs me is the

    >The Forum Rules of Conduct are enforced at the moderators' discretion along with the appropriate course of action taken on abusers.

    Which basically says, "Yeah sure there's rules but they don't actually mean anything. Mods can ban you for whatever they want."

    Mabinogi has a pretty cool community, if the discord after becoming official starts to go this way it'll die too. I'm being sincere when I say I hope that doesn't happen, as much flak as I give mabi I love it. I really do, it's very dear to me and holds a lot of memories growing up, and holds a lot of real life friendships that wouldn't have happened otherwise. During times I struggled, I'd log on mabi and just lose myself for a bit, talk to friends and just relax it was almost like a second home. Now that I play with my wife it's even more precious to me.
    KensamaofmariGretaCrimsọnSebastianDANIartsSherri
  • DANIartsDANIarts
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,120
    Posts: 789
    Member
    I just absolutely hate how things are lookin'...
    I do wish things get better, I love being on the forums...I love seeing yo amazing faces on them as well.
    Sebastian
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,855
    Posts: 790
    Member
    I'm reading through the glassdoor reviews. Absolutely JUICY content. More interesting than Saga II.
    SherriSebastian
  • PanPan
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,165
    Posts: 421
    Member
    Drama queens.
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,615
    Posts: 2,817
    Member
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    There was a guy who literally got a warning for having a "bad attitude", if anyone remembers it, happened like over a month ago. They left forums because of that as well.

    Also, just re-checked CoC and I'm still kind of bothered by this part:
    - Baiting players to flame; derailing threads to incite an argument or negative behavior; and simply for the sake of causing trouble are not behavior accepted on the Nexon forums.

    As much as I remember, we didn't argue and we definitely didn't post anything negative. We were goofing around. Sure, Mods will say that I derailed stuff multiple times, but I really didn't do that on daily basis. It was a mistake. I'm a human. Tried really hard to behave after my last warning, avoided to say anything controversial or really mean. But I guess it wasn't enough.
    At this point, it's best to be and stay a lurker of the forums if you don't want to get misunderstood and banned over something silly.

    the part that bugs me is the

    >The Forum Rules of Conduct are enforced at the moderators' discretion along with the appropriate course of action taken on abusers.

    Which basically says, "Yeah sure there's rules but they don't actually mean anything. Mods can ban you for whatever they want."

    That bothers me as well. I'm hoping that it's not like if I say 'you are an apple' and if they deem that 'insulting', they could warn me for calling somebody an apple. -_-
  • JulieJulie
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,030
    Posts: 341
    Member
    edited September 20, 2018
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    @Sherri -- It's no different anywhere else, on any other game or place where a Standard EULA is agreed to.

    They all retain the right to conduct disciplinary actions with or without reason.

    That literally translates to: they can ban you/me/us for any reason at all, or no reason at all.

    (That's a power of private property).

    yes we know, they can ban everyone and leave their forums to be a ghost town, which we are already getting to. Maybe people don't want that to happen and just want a discussion of that to take place to maybe make the place better instead of being shut down for it.

    You can always run your own business and kick out all your customers for stepping on a carpet that they didn't know to step on and just maybe be out of business because your rules made it impossible for the business to happen for most people.
    ForeRuniaSherriGreta
  • JulieJulie
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,030
    Posts: 341
    Member
    edited September 20, 2018
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    You are missing the point @Julie ~ They could do that if it was their intention, to close down the game and become a ghost town/blah blah blah. -- but in this case, they could do that just to rid their forum of trolls and clowns who aren't here for anything relevant to the game and only care about drumming up drama. -- The game -- in case you forgot -- doesn't require a forum to operate.

    I didnt forget a single thing, and the mods require forums to operate as well same goes with the community manager, its not even about drama, people want solid lines on how to use these forums without getting banned, thats not necessarily asking for drama. And as far as I know, I haven't seen any trolls on this thread. You're just projecting
    SebastianGreta
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,615
    Posts: 2,817
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    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    You are missing the point @Julie ~ They could do that if it was their intention, to close down the game and become a ghost town/blah blah blah. -- but in this case, they could do that just to rid their forum of trolls and clowns who aren't here for anything relevant to the game and only care about drumming up drama. -- The game -- in case you forgot -- doesn't require a forum to operate.

    I don't know how you could go from us rightfully wondering about what was up with the warnings some people got for something as harmless as 'derailing a thread' when it was all jokes and giggles (and then deleting the replies so others can't even see and judge for themselves, making them look worse) to a forum wide troll epidemic.
    Not to mention a while back somebody posted that GMs were ninja editing threads? Or did they address that? Still kinda weird... >3>

    Maybe I just don't know the full story, I don't know? o3o but there is something I do wanna say
    I think the game does need a forum, where else would feedback go? or suggestions? also i like how they have separate forum sections for the servers, so people could look for friends, a guild, or sell stuff
    SebastianGreta
  • DANIartsDANIarts
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,120
    Posts: 789
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    I'm sorry, but I hate that people are assuming this is to /start drama/ when it's clearly not, people want answers..that's how humans are when getting a ban or something all because they did a joke or replied too someone....to answer a question..
    if you want to start drama, go somewhere else. We're only trying to get answers on what's going on.
    SebastianGretaSherri
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 51,805
    Posts: 6,975
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    Hardmuscle is now a great example as to what actually people should be warned for. Literally derailing a thread to argue with several people.
    MiunaSherriSebastianDANIartsCrimsọnHellkaizerForeRuniaBuffalosLidrsterHelsa
  • DraechDraech
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,390
    Posts: 355
    Member
    edited September 21, 2018
    I'm not usually one to get involved in this, but I have to say this: I think most of you're taking this the wrong way. And I don't mean to belittle your (mostly valid) complaints, just that this isn't the right approach.

    I've worked as a security agent before. I've seen warnings get handed to customers every so often for various reasons, and bans some of the time. Warnings would be given to people to make sure other agents were aware of the customer's history. However, bans were a different story: only superior officers were allowed to deliver them, and they were only given in cases where the customer's attitude was harmful or toxic. It wasn't a "three-strikes-you're-out" kind of rule, but rather a case-by-case basis.

    I believe the Mabinogi Forums work the same way. Despite getting a warning, that doesn't mean you're that much closer to a ban, simply that you've been warned and Moderators will know that you are aware not to repeat the action. That said, I'm not aware of the content of the original discussion, but I imagine (from Greta's discussion with Katherz) that the GMs felt they had to hand out warnings to avoid it getting out of hand.

    Nonetheless, that doesn't mean they were right. If all of the people involved in the "derailment" consider it wasn't negative or insulting, and that no one reported your comments as such, then you should discuss it constructively with the GMs, who I believe can handle this professionally and with the interests of the customers in mind. More importantly, I believe they'll listen to you, because 1) you're customers, and deserve to be treated as such, and 2) you play a massive role in this community. Your names are known by most, your comments are often what keeps discussions going, and to be honest, the forums would feel empty without all of you. The GMs know as much, and I'm sure they'd listen to you if you discuss this calmly, directly, and with an open mind.

    Edit: I misquoted. My bad.
    GretaSherriDANIartsMizukiHayamaForeRuniaBuffalos
  • DANIartsDANIarts
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,120
    Posts: 789
    Member
    Draech wrote: »
    I'm not usually one to get involved in this, but I have to say this: I think most of you're taking this the wrong way. And I don't mean to belittle your (mostly valid) complaints, just that this isn't the right approach.

    I've worked as a security agent before. I've seen warnings get handed to customers every so often for various reasons, and bans some of the time. Warnings would be given to people to make sure other agents were aware of the customer's history. However, bans were a different story: only superior officers were allowed to deliver them, and they were only given in cases where the customer's attitude was harmful or toxic. It wasn't a "three-strikes-you're-out" kind of rule, but rather a case-by-case basis.

    I believe the Mabinogi Forums work the same way. Despite getting a warning, that doesn't mean you're that much closer to a ban, simply that you've been warned and Moderators will know that you are aware not to repeat the action. That said, I'm not aware of the content of the original discussion, but I imagine (from Greta's discussion with Katherz) that the GMs felt they had to hand out warnings to avoid it getting out of hand.

    Nonetheless, that doesn't mean they were right. If all of the people involved in the "derailment" consider it wasn't negative or insulting, and that no one reported your comments as such, then you should discuss it constructively with the GMs, who I believe can handle this professionally and with the interests of the customers in mind. More importantly, I believe they'll listen to you, because 1) you're customers, and deserve to be treated as such, and 2) you play a massive role in this community. Your names are known by most, your comments are often what keeps discussions going, and to be honest, the forums would feel empty without all of you. The GMs know as much, and I'm sure they'd listen to you if you discuss this calmly, directly, and with an open mind.

    Edit: I misquoted. My bad.

    Now THIS is good critique. I honestly couldn't agree more with this xD
    THIS is acceptable♥
    that's all I had to say about that.
    Sherri
  • JazmynJazmyn
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,595
    Posts: 1,009
    Member
    I'm NOT perfect, I'm far from it and I'm not saying I've never said things I shouldn't have. But, I report things I see that really shouldn't be said because all they would do is start drama and have added nothing else to the thread (aka, trolling), and a lot of those things just get deleted. I don't see warning threads or warning complaints about those situations, so honestly, maybe some of you have been really lucky it's taken this long to get a 2nd warning. I wish everyone would stop pretending like they're completely innocent (no one is, including myself), and I think everyone needs to stop pretending like @Hardmuscle is the bad guy.

    Again, in THIS particular situation, maybe you were innocent; I didn't see this one. But, I don't suggest an all out rebellion. Taking a temporary break from the forums, is probably in your best interest for your own sanity and health; and I say that out of real concern, not to be mean. I do care about everyone here; but, I don't appreciate anyone ganging up on anyone: GM's, moderators, forum members, Nexon even, etc. We need to all stand up for each other, and not work against each other, it does absolutely nothing but cause stress, anxiety, anger, and depression. Like, don't we have enough of that in our real lives? Shouldn't we be using this game and the forums and even discord to get away from that?
    SebastianMizukiHayamaSherriCrimsọnDANIartsTHICCthighssavelives[Deleted User]
  • KelpSodaKelpSoda
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,145
    Posts: 287
    Member
    edited September 22, 2018
    Jazmyn wrote: »
    ...and I think everyone needs to stop pretending like @Hardmuscle is the bad guy.
    ...

    don't think this is the case, rather taking constant reminders of "here's the TOS that say the company can just ban you", that add absolutely nothing meaningful to the conversation as trolling

    you can usually spot someone doing this exact thing whenever there is any kind of complaint about a ban or a warning, i don't think there's any reason to chime in to repeat that over and over other than baiting

    edit: I could be wrong assuming these people aren't simply fanboys, who knows, i have seen weirder stuff from people defending Apple...
    GretaJulieSherriDANIarts
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 51,805
    Posts: 6,975
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    edited September 23, 2018
    EDIT: This list was dedicated to Hardmuscle's recent posts (Sept. 22th), which got removed now (Thank you Katherz for informing VFM's!). Leaving this in case if anyone got wrong ideas as well.
    • I didn't demand anything or attack Nexon. Where did you find such claims is beyond my imagination.
    • My intention of this thread was to share my thoughts and also learn what others are thinking. It really helped me to understand fellow forum users and also feel less sad over this sudden incident.
    • I'm not boycotting the forums, I decided to become a lurker instead so I could avoid being banned over small mistakes.
    • You are the one upset here. I'm also looking for explanation as to why you said that this thread doesn't belong in here. Town Square is literally a place to post anything to share with others, because town squares is a place where people communicate and share about various topics.
    • Katherz saw this thread and even DM'ed me. She's a great GM for actually answering my concerns. Thank you Katherz for not ignoring me and for being a friendly and helpful person, it's really easy to communicate with her because of that. Since she saw this thread and nothing happened to it - this means I didn't break any CoC and this thread stays.
    • Please stop posting here if you are only here to cause us trouble. You are ruining this thread and I really don't want to get it locked or removed over someone who doesn't agree with others. Please stop this and thank you.

    Now back on topic...
    I got a warning because I derailed threads several times. That's what Katherz said. Still weird as to why not only me, but few others also got warned for the same thing, which is really weird. Did we accumulate the same amount of "strikes" and got the same warning at the same time? I really don't know or understand fully how that goes, but that's what I was told as to why I got a warning this time.
    Just want to tell you this, GM's/VFM's: Thank you for trying to keep these forums as clean as possible, sorry for being rude or nuisance to you and i'm sorry for being a jerk and a sassy queen lol. This goes to other forum users as well. I was this way because I thought it was funny and sometimes I used to get this wrong ideology that what i'm saying or doing is always the right way. I was wrong and I was a jerk because of that. If you want you can forgive me, it's your choice. Will be really happy if you guys accept my apology. People say and do silly things when they freak out.
    I was really honest here. I feel like I was just purified now, rofl. I really hope I will be able to come back to these forums fully again in the future and laugh at this incident like it was nothing. Really hoping for good results in the forums and also in Discord server. I will be waiting. :) <3
    SebastianSherriDANIartsHelsa