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Enchants - CP Reduction

KagenokamiKagenokami
Mabinogi Rep: 785
Posts: 76
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in Feedback and Suggestions
Increase the number, variety and potency of CP reduction enchants. As it stands, CP ceilings have climbed but the variety of ways to reduce your CP have stayed the same. This makes the later game grinds all the more difficult when finding boss level monsters to solo is an increasingly rare event, even with a set of the current CP reduction enchants/pots active.
Kensamaofmari

Comments

  • SlegiarSlegiar
    Mabinogi Rep: 510
    Posts: 3
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    fully agreed. also would love an official way to see our own CP. i've got a full set of armor, boots, gloves, and hat, plus the occasional tendering potion, and still have to spitball it at various times to fight the right groups and stuff. And that's while still being below 1000. 940 to be precise. trying to master as much that's CP dependent as i can early, and been working slowly at it for years......... and i still have trouble. can't imagine for someone with several thousand levels.
    Kagenokami
  • KagenokamiKagenokami
    Mabinogi Rep: 785
    Posts: 76
    Member
    Slegiar wrote: »
    fully agreed. also would love an official way to see our own CP. i've got a full set of armor, boots, gloves, and hat, plus the occasional tendering potion, and still have to spitball it at various times to fight the right groups and stuff. And that's while still being below 1000. 940 to be precise. trying to master as much that's CP dependent as i can early, and been working slowly at it for years......... and i still have trouble. can't imagine for someone with several thousand levels.

    Definitely in agreement. It's a pain to figure out the CP scale. Would be nice to be able to see our own and maybe enemy's...as well as how much each CP enchant/potion actually removes from your CP to allow for proper planning.
  • SlegiarSlegiar
    Mabinogi Rep: 510
    Posts: 3
    Member
    Kagenokami wrote: »
    Definitely in agreement. It's a pain to figure out the CP scale. Would be nice to be able to see our own and maybe enemy's...as well as how much each CP enchant/potion actually removes from your CP to allow for proper planning.

    as i understand it, the rough amounts of CP affected by the enchants are listed on the wiki. but that is again, fairly little help when you don't know what exactly you're working against for your personal CP. that doesn't excuse the fact there's no way to see things in game, since not everyone would immediately know to look at the wiki, and......well i'm going in circles but you get what i mean X_X;;;
  • StormbeastStormbeast
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,290
    Posts: 146
    Member
    So to answer a few question here:
    enchants:
    -cp enchants for hats, gloves, and boots are -100 cp each, so if you have both on each item it's -600cp
    -cp for body is trouble (-500) or more commonly raccoon cub (-1000cp)
    -cp for shield is abysmal which is -500cp

    honestly, -cp enchants are far outdated due to increasing the number of skills, and stat points, available. Exceptions are if you can managed to find raccoon cub accs to complement an outfit and get -3600cp total

    Tendering potions:
    They don't remove any cp from you, instead they raise every mob by 1-2 cp-related levels for the duration
    Ternder Potion and Special Tendering Potion raise by 1 level while Special Tendering Potion S raises by 2.


    CP Skill Training
    Personally I recommend training most CP skills in the Nowhere to Run Baltane mission
    -cp enchants are a non-issue (and can actually cause problems so it's best to aviod them)
    In normal mode all corpses will be similar and the bears will be strong without any adjustments
    In elite mode, corpses will be strong, and bears will be awful.
    Baltane Training Bombs can be purchased from Shaun that will increase the cp indicator on all new spawns for 3 mins
    Pairing will Tendering potions can easily find similiar to boss mobs in the same mission for all you CP training needs without ever having to worry about your CP.

  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 64,135
    Posts: 8,857
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    Just reset your skills.
    Helsa
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 21,540
    Posts: 4,932
    Member
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Just reset your skills.

    You are the wind beneath my wings!
  • KagenokamiKagenokami
    Mabinogi Rep: 785
    Posts: 76
    Member
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Just reset your skills.

    Not helpful to this conversation really~
  • KagenokamiKagenokami
    Mabinogi Rep: 785
    Posts: 76
    Member
    Stormbeast wrote: »
    So to answer a few question here:
    enchants:
    -cp enchants for hats, gloves, and boots are -100 cp each, so if you have both on each item it's -600cp
    -cp for body is trouble (-500) or more commonly raccoon cub (-1000cp)
    -cp for shield is abysmal which is -500cp

    honestly, -cp enchants are far outdated due to increasing the number of skills, and stat points, available. Exceptions are if you can managed to find raccoon cub accs to complement an outfit and get -3600cp total

    Tendering potions:
    They don't remove any cp from you, instead they raise every mob by 1-2 cp-related levels for the duration
    Ternder Potion and Special Tendering Potion raise by 1 level while Special Tendering Potion S raises by 2.


    CP Skill Training
    Personally I recommend training most CP skills in the Nowhere to Run Baltane mission
    -cp enchants are a non-issue (and can actually cause problems so it's best to aviod them)
    In normal mode all corpses will be similar and the bears will be strong without any adjustments
    In elite mode, corpses will be strong, and bears will be awful.
    Baltane Training Bombs can be purchased from Shaun that will increase the cp indicator on all new spawns for 3 mins
    Pairing will Tendering potions can easily find similiar to boss mobs in the same mission for all you CP training needs without ever having to worry about your CP.

    I do understand how it works, and I appreciate the thought. But the fact that someone has to go looking this stuff up to find it is a part of the problem. It should be available to view in-game. And yes, NTR is great, but when you reach a level where you need nothing but boss monsters and, unless you are still low level and low skill level you are getting screwed. CP enchants make it so that you don't have to RELY on whether you have tendering potions or not. And they have not seen an update/addition/improvement in forever while CP has climbed higher and higher. New enchants are overdue.
  • StormbeastStormbeast
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,290
    Posts: 146
    Member
    Stating the actual value in game wouldn't mean anything since there is no way to view your own (or enemy) cp values in game. CP values have climbed by players, and in response the new talents took this into account by all but completely removing cp from training requirements from talents (only knuckle mastery in fighter, only pierrot and colossus in puppetry, none at all in guns or ninja)

    also just to point out NTR elite with a special S potion, or NTR normal with baltane training bombs and a special S pot would make every mob in there boss leveled.

    As Crimson said you can also reset all your skills at Duncan to drastically lower your CP if you're really just having a hard time training 1 or 2 CP related skills.

    -CP enchants are outdated, but we'd be better asking for CP training to be removed than trying to get better enchants that `75%+ of the active (content running - non-afk) playerbase wouldn't care about. Friendly reminder that Meteor cp training includes 'field-boss level" -cp has 0 effect on that.
    I'm currently leveling up a 2nd character and i'm not sure I'd be willing to grind for a higher -cp enchant vs grind for solitude or meteoroid ES for my mains dblade. -CP is a immediate gain with diminishing returns, where most people want progress....what do you do with -cp enchanted gear after your skills are trained? dressing room or sell it....all the work you put in to get it is just gone.
  • KagenokamiKagenokami
    Mabinogi Rep: 785
    Posts: 76
    Member
    Stormbeast wrote: »
    Stating the actual value in game wouldn't mean anything since there is no way to view your own (or enemy) cp values in game. CP values have climbed by players, and in response the new talents took this into account by all but completely removing cp from training requirements from talents (only knuckle mastery in fighter, only pierrot and colossus in puppetry, none at all in guns or ninja)

    also just to point out NTR elite with a special S potion, or NTR normal with baltane training bombs and a special S pot would make every mob in there boss leveled.

    As Crimson said you can also reset all your skills at Duncan to drastically lower your CP if you're really just having a hard time training 1 or 2 CP related skills.

    -CP enchants are outdated, but we'd be better asking for CP training to be removed than trying to get better enchants that `75%+ of the active (content running - non-afk) playerbase wouldn't care about. Friendly reminder that Meteor cp training includes 'field-boss level" -cp has 0 effect on that.
    I'm currently leveling up a 2nd character and i'm not sure I'd be willing to grind for a higher -cp enchant vs grind for solitude or meteoroid ES for my mains dblade. -CP is a immediate gain with diminishing returns, where most people want progress....what do you do with -cp enchanted gear after your skills are trained? dressing room or sell it....all the work you put in to get it is just gone.

    Part of this includes asking for them to make player CP readily available. Furthermore, you are more than entitled to your opinion, but I wouldn't be so bold as to assume that just because YOU wouldn't grind for them for the ease that it would provide, doesn't mean that over half of the active players wouldn't.

    CP enchants will always have a use while cp related requirements exist. And, while I would love to see them abolished, I doubt Nexon is intending to do that anytime soon. It would be less work for them to add in enchants than it would be to reword 50%+ of the existing skill requirements.
  • StormbeastStormbeast
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,290
    Posts: 146
    Member
    Kagenokami wrote: »
    Part of this includes asking for them to make player CP readily available. Furthermore, you are more than entitled to your opinion, but I wouldn't be so bold as to assume that just because YOU wouldn't grind for them for the ease that it would provide, doesn't mean that over half of the active players wouldn't.

    CP enchants will always have a use while cp related requirements exist. And, while I would love to see them abolished, I doubt Nexon is intending to do that anytime soon. It would be less work for them to add in enchants than it would be to reword 50%+ of the existing skill requirements.

    These are opinions so we are allowed to disagree. It's clear that we experience vastly different games when we're online.

    I have no issues stating that I wouldn't grind for a new -CP enchant due to it having no effect on me (all my skills are in the dan testing stages or capped). My 2nd character is ranking up cp req's with either a raccoon cub body or in NTR.

    I believe that when players are training, they look for the most efficient route to train; ie. talent lvl bonuses, 2x skill pots, training pots to skip ranks entirely, ect. This includes the most efficient way to train cp reqs, which have been mentioned: Baltane missions due to CP matching by the game so that they are guaranteed to be the same cp lvl for each person without being the same cp value, as well as using the existing -cp enchants paired with resetting skills at Duncan.


    To ask for something better needs to be put into values
    - what would it go onto? raccoon cub is very specific
    - what rank ES?
    - where would you find it? harder content than comparable ES expectantly
    - how much CP would it take off? rough estimates or ranges

    For example:
    -100 cp ES (pre + suf) for Accs available in game
    r8 ES
    added to hard + elite sms (similar to existing -cp ES)

    this would be obtainable due to the pure amount of drops that it'll see anyways

    -1000 cp ES for head/gloves/feet
    r5 ES
    added to adv HM dungeons + peaca int

    these would be more accessible than rac cub, and improve the current availability.

    -1500-2000 cp ES suffix for body (overrides rac cub)
    r1 enchant regardless of rank
    drops from techs
    Objectively better, easier to enchant, players who drop it won't want or need it though


    Just to touch on your last point, CP won't be abolished because it affects drop rates and experience from field mobs. However them removing cp training req's is completely different.

    There are at most 54 CP related skills to train per character: Humans have the most, then elves, and giants have the least. Of those 54 (or less) skills, all but 7 of them fit into 5 talents for training - archery (giants ignore), close combat, lance (elves ignore), alchemy, and magic.

    As a human, I have 206 skills, not including transformations, stardust, or crusader skills, so CP requirements affect just over 26% of all skills available to humans.

    As we've just recently seen with the archery revamp, they can change requirements pretty simply (Urgent shot used to require missing, and now you can't miss). So asking for Nexon to change CP requirements to specific mobs (fighter combo skills @ r2) or to requiring uses and crits (guns/chains/ninja skills) isn't that much, especially when they already have a good idea of how to do it.

    I'm not against your idea of making cp training easier, I just disagree that more/better Enchants are the way to do it. Honestly, the players that I know that could just -cp enchants for training, are the same ones that don't know the best ways to generate gold in-game to buy the 15m raccoon cub, and then everybody else is sitting at almost maxed skills and are throwing 100s of mil at reforges and erg
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 21,540
    Posts: 4,932
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    This all seems like a lot of bother when you can just go visit Duncan.

    I made sure to rank all the CP sensitive skills first. This was before Duncan had his service. So I made use of skill reset caps that would come along during events. Why the talent reset capsule costs less than the full skill reset capsule, I'll never know, but thank you Nexon! I made sure to keep my CP under 1000 so that Lions would stay boss to me. I got through it all. To be sure, there were times when I had to be patient waiting for the next batch of skill resets, but I spent that time earning gold; that's never a waste of time.

    Naturally, when I was all done, THEN they introduce Duncan's service because, of course, it would be that way.