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What-if: ToS change for multiple accounts in NA?
tl;dr: do the poll & post opinions please!
On the KR servers, it's not against the ToS to log in with multiple accounts simultaneously. In contrast, this is bannable in NA unless you have a unique physical machine for each login. There seems to have been an official statement in KR (reddit link
here ) about Nexon wanting to shift AWAY from this and toward content where players DON'T feel the need to log in with multiple accounts simultaneously. One example of this from the reddit post is a hypothetical dungeon where all four end chests are openable even if there is only 1 player in the party. In NA we've had some events that allow this but they're not permanent. Moreover, recent dungeon updates in NA+ (example:
Dungeon Re:Fine patch notes) have changed the behavior of some dungeons where e.g. Alby Advanced Hardmode has significantly fewer end chest opportunities unless there are four players (read: bodies) in the party. In my experience, this leads to lots of concurrently-logged accounts (referred to as "cousins" by the community).
Why am I making this post? I see a lot of "cousins" and have gotten into a few discussions or disputes recently with people who either:
* Openly engage in and admit to this prohibited behavior in order to obtain rewards with 2-8x as much speed as a single character
* Might not participate in but heavily justify the use of and refuse to report prohibited behavior, e.g., "so that people like [me] can actually afford" things like Avalon Purification mission drops (hey there, it's me from Discord!)
* Voice discontent about this prohibited behavior and may or not report on a regular basis
I'm torn because while I want to report what seems like ToS-prohibited behavior, but I'm realistically not going to change the way people think on this matter and my "just follow the ToS" opinion seems to be in the minority. Similarly, it seems like a waste to ban a bunch of players that spend a ton of money on the game, especially since some servers allow this behavior and it is uniquely prohibited in NA. If people really want to use multiple clients from the same machine, then let's draw attention to it and petition for a policy change.
Do you want to see NA's stance change on this point? Vote in the poll & share your thoughts below.
Comments
On the other hand I see multi-clienting benefiting, the most, those folks contributing to most of the in-game inflation.
If Nexon is to allow multi-clienting, I'd prefer them to put that functionality into the client itself, so that everything remains in-house.
Yeah, this is aggravating.
KR does this but I don't remember how, whether it's based on # of active clients (easy to copy for NA) or max # of accounts per SSN (we could still do something with IPs I think?). I'd be happy with either solution.
Grind has always been and always will be an important part of the challenge in this game. Still, it doesn't mean that people who play legitimately need to spend 240 hours to do the same thing that a cheater can quietly do in 30...The disparity between legitimate play and ToS prohibition is so huge that I'd be happy with any step forward at this point.
and is it really only NA that doesn't allow multi-clienting? ...i'll be honest, i'm not surprised
Why not just have all dungeons have 8 chests. I can't remember if such parties are 4 or 8 so I'll assume up to 8.
1 person 8 keys
2 people 4 keys each
3 people leader gets 3 other two get 2 and the last is random between the other two.
4 people 2 keys each
5 people leader gets 2 everyone else gets 1
6 people leader gets 2 everyone else gets 1 and the last is random between the other 5.
7 people leader gets 2 everyone else gets 1
8 people 1 key each.
That could be implemented, at most, in a week ... well, provided the code is well commented ... BWA HA HA HA HA.
My guess is that Nexon NA's problem is that this is accomplished with 3rd-party software and they don't like that. As for Korea, no clue.
Really, there is no difference. At least on our end of things. On their end, there would be. It could be a major hassle for them to make it bannable for one person to run the game on two machines. How can they tell the difference between one person breaking this rule and two or more people playing together? Or two or more people from the same location going AFK while they go out for a bite to eat?
I remember back in the early days of Mabi, there was a family that played together. Husband, wife, and at least a couple of kids. Nexon detected them playing from the same location and auto-banned them (assuming them to either multi-client, or to be a bot farm). I think they eventually ironed things out, but it took a while. I'm sure that's the kind of headache they would like to avoid.
On the other hand, it would be rather easy for them to detect multiple clients from the same machine.
LOL, I write software for a living and this one made me burst out laughing.
In all seriousness, I DO think it would be pretty easy to implement even in a bare-bones form like this if the key-generation code has too much spaghetti:
1 person 8 keys
2 people 4 keys each
3~4 people 2 keys each, extra goes to waste
5~8 people 1 key each, extra goes to waste
I'd like to see a proper solution eventually but even that much would be a huge improvement.
This is the result of Competitive-Capitalism rather than, dare I say this, Co-Operative... SOCIALISM ! O_O
All you need to do is re-structure the system & its economy in such a way that... everybody is sharing resources !
Like, for example, certain games have... certain events where there are these rewards for total Server-Contribution.
Contrary to popular-belief, Communism actually works really well under an honest-leadership, and, actually happens to be an extremely practical-system in on-line game, well, perhaps with the exception of those who feel/think that those who aren't helping to contribute to server-rewards are «leeching» if they're not participating, or, people get miffed or feel cheated out of the max rewards if the max-rewards aren't achieved due to lack of people/players contributing towards Server-Progress (but even that can be re/solved just by extending the amount of time the server-population needs in order to reach its Max-Contribution-Amounts).
Now, I know that it is difficult to fathom, considering that everybody is used to some sort of traditional-system of financial-units, and, cannot possibly imagine a world where there is no longer any so-called money, but, just make all of the resources that anybody uses accessible to everyone at any time, provided that, sufficient Server-Contributions have been established. What in the world would this sort of system/economy even look like...? Well...
Everybody gets a... Server-Dimensional-Bag (for lack of better description). It will contain all of the things that everybody needs/uses, perhaps, for example, potions, the higher the Server-Contributions, the better-quality and more amount of each of those potions that each player can use up to X times per day, depending on the total Server-Contributions that contributed to Potion-Quality/Quantity... this is just one example of course, but, can extend to literally everything else, whether they be Echo-Stones, Rare-Ingredients, Divine-Knights Craft-Materials, Dragon-Hearts, and, basically, what-evers and which-evers. How about your Baltane-Units & their stats ? Everybody's Baltane-Unit stats goes up higher as the Server-Contributions in that area of Contributions !
I mean, why make this game SO «Solo»-nogi, when, with this COMMUNIST-Style system of Server-Contributions, everybody wins...! =D Just think, I kept on doing all of those Avalon-Bridge-Defense Baltane-Elite Missions, all in some vain attempt to try to farm for some item that has, not only apparently never dropped, but, has also apparently NEVER been listed on the (N-A) Auction-House, even unto this very day, like, does that item even exist at all ? But, with the COMMUNISTIC Server-Contributions idea, say that lots of the Server-Player-Base did their Server-Contributions of completing lots and Lots and LOTS of Avalon-Bridge-Defense Elite-Mission, collectively, then, perhaps, everybody can eventually unlock the Server-Wide «Weapon-Pool» so that those who want/need that item/weapon can grab it from the Server-Contribution-Weapon-Fund, and, because it is a «Server-Contribution» system, you are still part of something larger, like a team, even if your activities are seemingly «Solo»-nogi for all intents & purposes (because, you know, much of this game really was going in the direction of Solonogi for a long time ever since a number of generations back, although now it seems to be largely moving more in the direction of Group-DPS versus Mega-Massive-Multi-Spawns-That-Cannot-be-CC'd-Swarms at least as things get closer to what many people start calling End-Game)...
On the other hand, people tend to not want to work when they feel their work is futile. This is true in large dishonest communities like in video games, and is similarly why players might feel disempowered by bots or third party multi-clienting.
Something like dungeon key equity between single player parties and heavy-alt parties would close the gap without destroying the FOMO ranks that fuel ambition in video games.
I've worked in software; we know the deal.
Technically, while simpler the difference between this and what I suggested is one line of code. Eventually it would be implemented the way I suggest as folks would beach about the "inaccessible" end-chest.
Colours ? Obviously, requests can be put in for specific Dye-Ampoules, that the Server-Population can pool from...
Dishonest ? Ridiculous ! The absolute vast majority of the player-base here are really quite honest people; were this to be some sort of competitive PvP-Oriented RTS-War-Game then that might be a different story since most people who enjoy that sort of stuff tend to have a lot more than just a few screws loose...
Dungeon-Keys can also be covered via the Server-Participation-Communist-System... probably...!
I hope you're right! It'd be more convenient.
I admit that shared keys reduce the incentive for party play in some cases, but there are already other mechanics that do this so it still seems normal for content in general. For example, some enemies have a HP increase and the petal minigame in Four Seasons gets harder and less deterministic as the party grows. This would just make other content more consistent with the tradeoff between safer party play and access to end chests.
Just look at the state of NA/EU Mabinogi.
- Bad Loot system
- Greedy Players
- Can't Catch up Players
- Broken AH Prices
Allow Multiboxers? - No. Not when our market is trash and many mulers right now are uncooperative with honest players. They mule for money. They also mule for getting an edge over everyone. They don't support the overall community but themselves and their (EFF)ing wallet. It's ridiculous when i've SEEN SEVEN MULES RUNNING RUNDAL ADV HARDMODE.
With this much mulers, I am not surprised if Nexon/Devcat implements a dungeon/event/content restriction for newbies and F2P. I know this is bad, but there's a reason the saying "This is why we can't have nice things".
Instead of allowing mulers, they should at least fix the loot system- Rewards and drops. Everything. If we're running a certain dungeon, there should be an option that we can select to increase the odds. Each time we run the content without any drops, the rate increases- until it's a 100% drop rate as a saying "Sorry, take it and go away". The rate then resets after the drop. The item in question could have a trade restriction if anyone is saying "Abusable". Or even put it up on VIP. That would drive more money.
The problem is, that multiclienting won't ever go away; it will always be a problem. Which is why I'd prefer for them to always have dungeons spawn the max number of chests, and to distribute the keys out evenly with the party position (number next to each person's name) deciding priority for remainder keys. I think Nexon is way too stubborn to do this though as this will significantly decrease the grind in this game, although make it more fair on players in general.
I wasn't so confident in them doing it before, but with their implementation of Billionaire's Bankroll, and their recent reduction of the skill training grind (+rework of training multipliers), I do think there's a chance this change could become a reality. I do think discussions like this need to continue to go on though, in order for such changes to become reality.
Honestly though, I don't really care if they're for or against multiclienting. I just want them to address the fundamental issue with the game that encourages players to do so.
You know your game is this bad when users resort to bots to get items. It's akin to smuggling. The goods, they look normal, but are ill gotten in some way or another.
1. Mabinogi needs Rainbow Six's Operation Health. "Fixing repairing the game". Heck, Ill take the game being offline for a WEEK for the devs to fix it. Though they would have to talk to the community to find which bugs and outdated content to fix.
1a. Which bothers me. Is there a test server for the NA/EU region? Is it regular users or just GM only? Probably NDA somewhere, but really. Who is playtesting this and thought it was a good idea to run and release such content? Heck, make it non-NDA and make it accessible to the public- we players can usually find bugs those Oversea players missed.
2. This needs to be in the planning board. Either better loot system, better RNG system (Two numbers, averaged), or the dreadful idea of limiting Free "Limited" players such how Valve did it with CSGO competitive.
3. Agreed. More keys, less grind heavy. Which is one of the reasons I can't recommend anyone to play mabinogi without a friend.
4. Same. Address it, either ban or suspend those users. DO SOMETHING.
Another take on this is that I'd be happy to drop $100 on reforges if I understood the function of the 1% thing I'm trying to roll for. The wiki for this game is somewhat stale and even with all of my crappy wannabe spreadsheets I still screw up stats and damage numbers and am surprised in-game. If I could try things out in an empty or test server, get that WOWZERS feeling of a cool reforge, then I'd totally go back and spend money for it on the main game. It's the same reason I buy a ton of skins on League of Legends even though I have ~everything unlocked on the test server: I built up a habit of spending fake-but-looks-real money on the test-but-looks-real server, I got tactile confirmation that the thing I want is awesome (or found something new to crave if the first 1% stat wasn't worth it), and now I crave that taste when I go back to the main server with my friends.
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[1] Someone mentioned to me that the ToS might change this year to further restrict the use of multiple devices and I searched for it so that I could make sure my original post was still up-to-date with current ToS. I'll re-check it every week in case this rumor is true.
1. I would run content with a max party, as it helps legitimately. It doesn't help that you don't find the correct amount of people who wants to join...
2. Speaking of Reforges, I wonder how they're testing out content releases.
- Is it doable?
- Is IT DOABLE for normal people?
- Is IT DOABLE FOR NORMAL PEOPLE without GOD TIER Reforges?
Ever since they released Rabbie Phantasm, I asked these question. Is it going to take Power creeps for these content to be doable?
2b. I've always want to ask Pay2Winners on their stats and actually wanted to "rent" their equipment to see if it's just me or the reforges and their god tier setups that makes them able to steamroll multiple endgame content with ease.
Let me test my own setup, and see if I apply their god tier reforges on my Staff, and hopefully I get the same results. If I don't, no need for me to waste money on the reforges and get a new staff.