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Let elves duel wield/use 2h weapons

MinastarMinastar
Mabinogi Rep: 1,130
Posts: 5
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edited February 8, 2023 in Feedback and Suggestions
Not sure if anyone else posted about this, but with the intro of elemental knight I've felt like its been extra rough for elves. Even if we can't get access to 2h swords, I do think we should duel wield since we can psychically hold a sword and shield as it is. This honestly never made sense to me. I've played as a elf since elves came out so I have no interest in making a new character just for access to wield swords properly.
Sherri
  1. What is everyone's thoughts on this?18 votes
    1. Let elves suffer - keep it as it is! >:C
       39% (7 votes)
    2. Let them at least duel wield!
       22% (4 votes)
    3. Give them access to wield everything!
       39% (7 votes)

Comments

  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,715
    Posts: 2,818
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    i feel like not letting elves dual wield or use 2h weapons is an outdated mechanic, especially since theres weapons being released that are 2h that elves can actually dual wield... if they still want to be annoying about it, then theres ways to make it so we can still do these things, like letting us dual wield daggers/knives, maybe add it to merchant or something.. hell, theres scythes and katanas that could be used for new talents, they're usually 2h weapons
    Minastar
  • nomigid15nomigid15
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,870
    Posts: 247
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    Personally, I think they should entirely overhaul the dual-wielding system. Instead of it being purely race-based, make it STR based and/or size based:

    [EX 1]

    Elves: Very Fast - Fast
    Humans: Fast - Slow
    Giants: Slow - Very Slow

    [EX 2]

    Very Fast: >10 STR
    Fast: >60 STR
    Normal: >110 STR
    Slow: >160 STR
    Very Slow: >210 STR

    (NOTE: EX 2 would exclude equipment modifiers.)
    Sherri
  • LibiriLibiri
    Mabinogi Rep: 550
    Posts: 13
    Member
    I think that anyone should be able to wield anything. I say giants should be able to wield bows and that since nexon abandoned atlatls. Yeah, they are touching throwing attack, but ignoring the weapon that goes with it.
    Sherri
  • FalmostaFalmosta
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,590
    Posts: 68
    Member
    Honestly, with Arcana talents being a thing that could cause problems here, Elves really need access to Lance. Just make a lance set that allow elves to use them that are not as strong. Then Give gaints access to just crossbows. This would fix this problem while still keeping the races uqinue traits. Elves do have access to two handed axes, so if we just have more two handed axes that are not race locked it would be fine.
    SherriNegumikoJonarose
  • NegumikoNegumiko
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,775
    Posts: 1,310
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    I see no reason why elves shouldn't be able to use a lance. Keep in mind they can also Joust and that uses a lance as well. Elves learning lance mastery could also give them access to Berserk. Just make lighter lances that are only about half as strong as the ones humans and giants use.
    Falmosta wrote: »
    Honestly, with Arcana talents being a thing that could cause problems here, Elves really need access to Lance. Just make a lance set that allow elves to use them that are not as strong. Then Give gaints access to just crossbows. This would fix this problem while still keeping the races uqinue traits. Elves do have access to two handed axes, so if we just have more two handed axes that are not race locked it would be fine.

    Crossbows would be a good idea for giants. The Atlatl system for giants could be improved as well.
  • PeadrianPeadrian
    Mabinogi Rep: 945
    Posts: 9
    Member
    if elves get to dual wield then you need to up humans move speed and add a second arrow+ability to run while aiming to human ranged attack and allow them to use it while mounted. if elves get access to lances then its only fair that giants get mag shot, crash shot, support shot, etc. along with double atlatl basic mounted ranged attack. while were at it every race should be able to hide instead of just elves. if you wanna be able to do everything play a human, if you wanna play an elf stop trying to make them play like every other race
    ChoRawrismEshya
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,715
    Posts: 2,818
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    Peadrian wrote: »
    if elves get to dual wield then you need to up humans move speed and add a second arrow+ability to run while aiming to human ranged attack and allow them to use it while mounted. if elves get access to lances then its only fair that giants get mag shot, crash shot, support shot, etc. along with double atlatl basic mounted ranged attack. while were at it every race should be able to hide instead of just elves. if you wanna be able to do everything play a human, if you wanna play an elf stop trying to make them play like every other race

    comments like these make me wish this forum had a dislike function :unamused:
  • PeadrianPeadrian
    Mabinogi Rep: 945
    Posts: 9
    Member
    Sherri wrote: »
    Peadrian wrote: »
    if elves get to dual wield then you need to up humans move speed and add a second arrow+ability to run while aiming to human ranged attack and allow them to use it while mounted. if elves get access to lances then its only fair that giants get mag shot, crash shot, support shot, etc. along with double atlatl basic mounted ranged attack. while were at it every race should be able to hide instead of just elves. if you wanna be able to do everything play a human, if you wanna play an elf stop trying to make them play like every other race

    I as an elf want to take everything that makes humans/giants unique but refuse to even think about sharing any of what makes elves unique. FTFY

  • ChoCho
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,120
    Posts: 244
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    Minastar wrote: »
    I've played as a elf since elves came out so I have no interest in making a new character just for access to wield swords properly.
    nomigid15 wrote: »
    Personally, I think they should entirely overhaul the dual-wielding system. Instead of it being purely race-based...
    Falmosta wrote: »
    Elves really need access to Lance. Just make a lance...
    Negumiko wrote: »
    I see no reason why elves shouldn't be able to use a lance...

    WHAT DO YOU MEAN? YOU CLEARLY JUST WANT TO PLAY A HUMAN. They made the game so easy for you. 20k blaanid levels. Reforged, enchanted, special upgraded blaanid weapons. 20 GM missions down to 10. Skill training is 10x faster. Master Plan Events 2-3 times a year. Repair costs down to 1/4. Just reroll.

    This is why good mmos die. They start catering to casuals who want everything to be easy, bland, and samey.
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,715
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    wow, this thread got toxic real quick
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,380
    Posts: 5,770
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    We can let all races duel wield and yet preserve the idea that giants are stronger than humans are stronger than elves.

    Let Elves duel-wield all tools only. They are all classified as axe, blade, and blunt already and have combat upgrades that no ever uses. Some tools are two-handed. I'd say let them count because other wise the combat upgrades on them are pointless.

    Let Humans duel-wield anything an elf can plus any one-handed weapons; axe, blade, or blunt.

    Let Giants duel-wield anything a human can plus any two-handed weapon that they can already wield one-handed.

    Let everyone mixed implements instead of having two exactly the same ones: so mace with gladius, for example.
    Sherri
  • nomigid15nomigid15
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,870
    Posts: 247
    Member
    More Ideas:

    - Let elves dual-wield wands and have access to new, more advanced types of Magic Fusion.

    - Have size-specific exceptions for race restrictions (i.e. Elves can only dual-wield 1 × 2 swords, and giants can only wield 1 × 4 or 2 × 4 bows.

    - Allow races to "unlock" the ability to use restricted weapons by getting certain stats high enough (i.e. Elves can dual-wield if they get their STR high enough, Giants can use Archery if they get their DEX high enough, and Humans can 2H-wield greatswords if they get their STR high enough).
    SherriJonarose
  • LutetiumLutetium
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,605
    Posts: 239
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    Stat/skill based weapon restrictions work alright in single player games but in rolling update MMOs like Mabinogi it will just become another forgotten system whos balance is thrown out the window by stat creep like demonic weapons tried to be.
    As for dual wield, a lot of people are oddly fixated on it when it's been in the shadow of 2H for over a decade and I doubt they would actually even use it if it was added raw in the current state, a full overhaul to dual wield melee for all races would be a much better thing to ask for in my opinion and something I'd like to see myself too.
    Elves can use the best 2H sword in the game already, Soluna Blade, in the meantime Celtic Royal Warrior Axe/Hammer are also 2H options for elves sans the piercing levels, there is a lot of 2H they can't equip sure but they're mostly outdated filler tier equipment that isn't worth investing into heavily (though I wish that wasn't the case and all these weapons could have meaningful differences instead of new thing best all around every time but that's also just MMO logic).
    Sherri
  • ChoCho
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,120
    Posts: 244
    Member
    You guys are trolling. The devs might actually listen. Just for trying to steal dual-wield from humans, I hope the devs release another strength-based ranged talent.
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,715
    Posts: 2,818
    Member
    edited February 26, 2023
    nomigid15 wrote: »
    More Ideas:

    - Let elves dual-wield wands and have access to new, more advanced types of Magic Fusion.

    - Have size-specific exceptions for race restrictions (i.e. Elves can only dual-wield 1 × 2 swords, and giants can only wield 1 × 4 or 2 × 4 bows.

    - Allow races to "unlock" the ability to use restricted weapons by getting certain stats high enough (i.e. Elves can dual-wield if they get their STR high enough, Giants can use Archery if they get their DEX high enough, and Humans can 2H-wield greatswords if they get their STR high enough).

    being able to fuse adv. magic would be really cool, like fireball + ice spear = a giant ball of ice, or a spear of fire :open_mouth:

    Cho wrote: »
    You guys are trolling. The devs might actually listen. Just for trying to steal dual-wield from humans, I hope the devs release another strength-based ranged talent.

    trying to steal? really? grow up
    you're the one 'trolling', replying with only toxic messages on a thread thats filled with interesting ideas on how to make this game more fun
    and i hope the devs do listen and add weapons and talents that allow elves to dual wield and 2h, way less people gatekeeping mechanics in an old MMORPG :unamused:
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,380
    Posts: 5,770
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    nomigid15 wrote: »
    - Allow races to "unlock" the ability to use restricted weapons by getting certain stats high enough (i.e. Elves can dual-wield if they get their STR high enough, Giants can use Archery if they get their DEX high enough, and Humans can 2H-wield greatswords if they get their STR high enough).

    That is an interesting idea! If elves are too weak and giants too clumsy then how is it explained that a high level elf will be stronger than a brand new giant, and yet it doesn't matter, or that a high level giant be more graceful than a brand new elf and yet it doesn't matter. Through this, all the skills could be unlocked to everyone, which would extend the things folks can do in this game, so people playing the game longer. At the highest end then the characters would be more similar but giants still a little bit stronger, elves a little bit weaker, giants a little more clumsy, elves a little more graceful, and humans in the middle.
  • ChoCho
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,120
    Posts: 244
    Member
    Sherri wrote: »
    trying to steal? really? grow up
    you're the one 'trolling', replying with only toxic messages on a thread thats filled with interesting ideas on how to make this game more fun
    and i hope the devs do listen and add weapons and talents that allow elves to dual wield and 2h, way less people gatekeeping mechanics in an old MMORPG :unamused:

    Not agreeing with bad ideas doesn't make me toxic. The devs made Elves not able to do that stuff for the sake of balance not ""gatekeeping"". The concept is foreign to you, I know.
  • RacerjoshRacerjosh
    Mabinogi Rep: 210
    Posts: 2
    Member
    As an elf from 2010... It's funny the way Giants and Human players think about us. Elves are inherently weak in mabinogi, 40k+ with new Shine Stat bonus does help fill the gap... BUT... Elf gets fast move speed, and hide... That's about it, Humans even get an extra 100% Aim speed from range attack over Elves....

    Elves just want to be able to enjoy Mele a bit more, We want 2h swords and maybe some Fashionogi dual weild stuff, or even usable stuff.

    Want some Truths?

    70% of people Quit Elf characters and make Giant Characters

    50% of people Quit Human Characters and make Giant Characters

    20% of people Quit Giant Characters and make Human Characters

    5-10% of people Quit Giant Characters and make Elf Characters

    That's just from what i've noticed with friends... nearly EVERYONE is leaving human or elf and making giants. They are broken as hell especially with dual erg 50 borealis hammers.

    Yes I have an elf with 2k+ Max attack unbuffed with a 1h borealis hammer... But it required SO MUCH GEAR and min maxing to actually hit that point... Yes I main Mage and sub Archery as an elf. It's fun but what's wrong with elves wanting to use 2h weaps and dual wield?

    We get to move fast and hide, Humans and Giants get to tank more, [H] dual wield, use [H&G]lances that have more pierce and higher early game DPS, wield [G] 2h sword with shield, and other things, yeah giant goes have archery and deserves an atlatl update or a crossbow update. I Agree with that. Elf characters are inherently weaker than Human and Giant counterparts and anyone that says "Oh Elf has better mage or archery!" Have you ever seen erg 50 ruination bow humans? Have you ever seen giants with ruination staffs and end game magic sets? They can tank mobs to their face and do so much DPS that the minor difference isn't much, now add that to swapping to 2h weaps and other gear sets that elves can't even access...

    Thanks,
    Some Random Milletian
    Sherri
  • PeadrianPeadrian
    Mabinogi Rep: 945
    Posts: 9
    Member
    Racerjosh wrote: »
    As an elf from 2010... I feel like elves need a buff even though they consistantly dominate KR endgame and can .5 second mag spam 95% of content here easily.

    Elves just want to be able to enjoy Mele a bit more, We want 2h swords and maybe some Fashionogi dual weild stuff, or even usable stuff.

    Want some Truths?

    Random statistics I made up to support my point with no hard numbers and even admit they are from a small sample size of likeminded individuals.

    I have good gear and stats for endgame but hate that i have to play more than one character to access EVERYTHING in the game, nevermind that in most games the 3 talents i use would require 3 seperate characters already

    jerry seinfeld "have you seen this routine"

    Thanks,
    Some Random Milletian

    elves giants and humans have differences and thats a good thing. if you want a game where every character is exactly the same go play fortnite
  • MissGladysMissGladys
    Mabinogi Rep: 955
    Posts: 12
    Member
    I don't really understand the logic behind picking a race they upfront tell you during character creation is going to be bad at melee and then begging for buffs to melee.
    If you were to ask for equivalent race exclusive perks for ranged (or even magic. You know, that talent they say elves are supposed to have an advantage in) I could agree with you there. Giving elves the ability to wield lances/dual wield/wield 2h swords is just further removing the "but versatility!" perk that humans have been losing their grasp on.