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Forced Solo Memory Dungeons need to be removed

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  • NilremNilrem
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,880
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    Smash has a cool down

    A one second one. Just hit the enemy with it again after one attack using the instant load time it has.
    Defending only stops 1 attack, counter likewise only one attack. Both defensive skills take time to load in

    Instant load times, and they should only need to block 1 attack unless you let yourself get multi aggro'd by rushing.
    You could whirlwind but that also not only has a load time, you have to click somewhere near you to activate the skill as well

    This one also has an instant load time. It also appears you are not setting these skills to number keys 1-4 next to WSAD. One tap of a key and a click is more than enough to windmill quickly. Also avoid using windmill if only one enemy aggro'd you. You will just force multi aggro.
    When you do get hit it isn't for a hitpoint or 10, it's for 50+. You have about 6 hit before you die and when you die you do take a severe penalty. A reduced overall HP pool.

    So don't get hit, defend attacks, use counter, and don't rush in.
    And saying "Don't get hit" isn't legitimate advice. You are going to get hit because you cannot perfectly control the situation at all times. Something will get you. Especially the archers.

    Actually, it is advice. It was even the key to victory in the past where these RPs were player norm. You actually ARE in control of the situation at all times. The real question here is: Why aren't you attacking archers right away?
    Okay I will concede that you can't run in and melee. What other options do you have? Tell me what is the ranged option to pull a single target? What about a magic option? Do you have any way to recover wounds? How do you pull a single target in melee when they are all clustered together? By spending 10-20 minutes per room as you hope one wanders away from the pack? Smash doesn't always 1 hit kill either. Nor does a normal attack combo.

    Again, you have control over the situation. If enemies are high in number, stick to empty corners of rooms and wait for one to aggro. You can lure an enemy without attacking it. With that single enemy lured, it will walk towards you. The wise thing to do is move in to attack, and pay attention to if it loads a skill or not. If not, defend for the advantage and smash. If it does, react accordingly. If no enemy decides to aggro you, are they a weak or strong enemy? If its a large pack in this RP, they should be weak, and effortless to defeat. Ghosts only appear in groups of 2-4 if memory serves right. Easy to pick those off. Rooms should only take you 2 minutes at most if you use skills right, maybe 4 if the AI is annoying.
    I have javelins

    Oh, a fellow giant. I'm taking you got so used to tanking everything that you forgot what having any form of difficulty is?
    Understandable, although you do seem to have a lot to learn when it comes to aggro control.
    And Saga 2 and I are not on speaking terms right now. I have finished 1-4, can't muster the will to do 5, and the Prologue is dead to me.

    So you have yet to reach the final bits of saga where that nightmare of an RP is? I suggest not doing any of it until you have done all other storylines. I can say the same for G19 and G20 as well. Things are much easier storyline wise if you do everything in order. Except G8. The story of G8 is a glorified side quest at this point.

    RP quests are here to stay, as they only need the player to be skilled enough to get through them. Every RP character is designed to be able to clear the RP they are placed in, after all.

    I know you might not like to hear it, but you really just need to get better at the game itself.
    I know that might sound strange when we can steamroll everything in one attack now, but having knowledge can make a big difference when things start becoming difficult.

    I hope you and your sister have a fun time outside of these storyline quests, might even bump into you if you play on the little island that is Tarlach.
    FeliceAeolysSpiritika
  • FeliceFelice
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,490
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    edited May 18, 2017
    Nilrem wrote: »
    I know you might not like to hear it, but you really just need to get better at the game itself.
    I know that might sound strange when we can steamroll everything in one attack now, but having knowledge can make a big difference when things start becoming difficult.

    Nilrem said it best.

    Now for my two cents.

    I do not mean to sound evil or straight up rude, But the act of saying that DevCAT and by association, Nexon, needs to remove all Role-Play based story missions and dungeons because it denies you your character, stats, gear and skills to steamroll and flatten any challenge that presents itself to you, is hypocritical.

    By the sounds of it, you are a Melee Giant. Congratulation,s you picked Easy Mode at character creation. You show no signs or willingness to learn anything involving Single-handed/no-shield melee tactics, two-handed melee tactics, magic tactics, guerilla tactics, or any form of smart playing in general. Every single Role-Play Mission and Dungeon is designed to be 100% beatable by anyone. All you have to do is look at what you are given and know how to use it. The fact that you are unwilling to even do this much, tells me volumes about yourself.
    Dcat682NilremCarlizeAeolysSirRyu
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,050
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    edited May 18, 2017
    Marinth made me nostalgic. I remember playing through as Ruari, or as Mari, and for the love of god freaking MORES WITH CHAINCAST FIREBALL, and looked in amazement. If you ever seen the opening scene in Chrono Cross, you play as a high level party, before waking up and realizing it is a dream of things to come. This is what RPs meant to me back then. They told me I could be this strong eventually, they gave me a taste of power that the tutorials never did, expand on the story behind several NPCs, some of whom are not that important to the storyline, but of the few presented, it is pretty interesting to see their memories and backstories. For me, this was a highlight of the game, and an excellent and unique way to communicate extra bits of lore.

    The problem is not simply we are powerful endgame, but that we are powerful enough to level past most of the original RPs, and even things like Saga 1's Ruari, who had 1500 per stat and unique skills like a toggable heavy stander, were fairly underwhelming compared to my character, and I suspect to anyone else at that point, with the main highlight being the previous generation of Shamala Generation 17 where you fight as a freaking giant lion, namely because animal RPs are far and few, with my only memory being Paladin Dungeon and The Red Spider.

    Looking back, Generation 8's Arenen and Isla and Voight felt out of place, and was disliked for an RP, because even at the time of its implementation, they were not that strong. It was meant to be difficult, which oddly enough, went against a great deal of RPs that emphasized combat versus the stealth of say, Shiela's RP, if I remember correctly. It was more difficult it seems back then then it was now, perhaps because I was wholly unfamiliar with the intricacies of melee combat prebash.

    In any case, I found the story tacking Arenen, Ilsa, and Voight to be extremely underwhelming versus Belita and Lucas. Ah, let me take this girl into a dungeon to confess, only to find she loves my best friend, despite the fact neither of us were said to be immortal milletians, and thus quite susceptible to dying as we are overwhelming underpowered versus the mobs which will likely kill us, especially since Ilsa cannot do anything but heal. OH NO! Time to move to Zardine!

    Edit:Not sure how G8 is more difficult than G19 against two Girgashiys. Their Holy contagion saps so much of your health by a percentage that it does not seem to matter, as you will likely have to die in a corner and revive just to separate them.
  • FalskullFalskull
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,185
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    If Nexon/Devcat listened to crybaby's like this post the game would go down hill faster then it already is. I mean they have already nerfed g1-3 to the ground to make it easier for new players to them a start that can get them in to the game. That and they have given new plays so much more benafits then older players. RPs are outdated in terms of the game but they are left alone due to the story aspect you call your self OP but are you really when you cant manage the skills that are given to you. i dont see your point on complaining about something you cant do.
    Daktaro
  • HazurahHazurah
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,370
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    edited May 18, 2017
    oh god, remember when you must clear G3 mission that requires you to use fomor robe?
    PLAYER NOWADAYS JUST BULLDOZE THEIR WAY TROUGH THEM

    compare to that, this thread looks really childish
    since all RP mission are designed to be beatable even with improper equipment such as..... bare hand!
    Nilrem
  • DaktaroDaktaro
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,215
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    the RPs should not be removed. it's a change to playing your character all the time. it shows the story from someone else's point of view. sure they could be improved a bit or made more interesting cuz some are mind-numbing and boring but removing it is bad idea. "you running a dungeon as anyone other than your own character is meaningless from a narrative point of view" um no. a lot of them are flashbacks to where if your character was present it would be inaccurate to what actually happened in the story.

    yeah the characters have hardly any skills etc but it forces you to experience what it was like back in the days. and they have enough skills to complete the objective anyway it's not like they're making you fight girgashiy with only smash and defense. none of them are exceedingly hard. i live in NZ and so have terrible ping and also am kind of bad at fighting in general but i never had so much trouble to get mad at RPs.

    i helped a newbie do that voight RP and it was so long ago that i did it myself couldn't remember anything from it. we died a couple times yea and had to run back from the start of the dungeon lol. but it's not a big deal. a challenge sometimes is a good thing.
    Marinth made me nostalgic. I remember playing through as Ruari, or as Mari, and for the love of god freaking MORES WITH CHAINCAST FIREBALL, and looked in amazement.
    lol this
  • YokkaichiYokkaichi
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,035
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    edited May 18, 2017
    Hazurah wrote: »
    oh god, remember when you must clear G3 mission that requires you to use fomor robe?
    PLAYER NOWADAYS JUST BULLDOZE THEIR WAY TROUGH THEM

    compare to that, this thread looks really childish
    since all RP mission are designed to be beatable even with improper equipment such as..... bare hand!
    Like Andras' RP from one of the G9 sidequests. I recently finished that one and it was quite challenging. Though she did make up for her lack of combat skills with magic. And the fact that since she's an elf you could use hide and get past the mobs.

  • NegumikoNegumiko
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    RP quests make the game challenging and most story content is optional. after you beat G2 you can basically do whatever you want and do story anytime you feel like it. I do find most RP quests boring but they are important to story of the game. playing solo RP dungeons as Tarlach was super boring and annoying but some were fun as well. when I did the RP dungeons as Moores I had no mage experience at all yet it was still the most fun I have ever had in a RP dungeon.
  • ShouKShouK
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    Marinth made me nostalgic. I remember playing through as Ruari, or as Mari, and for the love of god freaking MORES WITH CHAINCAST FIREBALL, and looked in amazement.
    Lmao I have been wondering what RP is that. At the time I didnt touch magic yet and weak af. That RP made me want to become a mage and cheat me into thinking we can actually chaincast fireball. I legit googled how to do that until I realized it's actually not possible.
    AlmostNotsuperBlissfulkill
  • ArchdukeValeCortezArchdukeValeCortez
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,380
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    Nilrem wrote: »
    Smash has a cool down

    Snip.
    Smash, Defense, Counterattack, and Whirlwind most definitely do NOT have instant load times. There is very clearly a full second load time for the skill to take effect. I am well aware of what hotkeys are and use them.

    As for managing aggro, you are advocating methods that would add massive chunks of time sitting doing nothing. Sit in a corner you said. Wait for the mobs to hopefully come near you you said. That could in theory add infinite amount of time to the dungeon. So yes, if you sit there for all eternity I suppose you are in control of the situation but who is going to sit there waiting for the perfect time to get 1 mob based on random movement patterns? Most people I know want to get things done in a timely fashion. That method is not timely at all

    As for the archers, they come in pairs. If they both aggro on you and are any distance from each other you will get shot.

    Also, "git gud" is still hardly advice. Saying to use counter and defense more is advice.

    Lastly, money where your mouth is people. Several of you have said that Arenen's RP was easy and one of you said it can be done barehanded. So I challenge you to do Arenen's RP barehanded and don't get hit a single time. You all seem to think that doing that is super easy so let's see it. Someone do that and I will admit I am the worst gamer in the history of time.

    Also, not one of you has told me what playing as Arenen through that particular dungeon has added to the story what couldn't have been achieved with a single line of text or the cut scene at the end of the dungeon. I see lots of disagreeing with me but no one has addressed this. How does playing the dungeon from Arenen's pathetic point of view add anything to the story? He could have said, I went through the dungeon and when I got to the end this was what I saw: cue the cut scene. We would still have his memory and still it would be narratively from his point of view.

  • AeolysAeolys
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,115
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    edited May 18, 2017
    Also, not one of you has told me what playing as Arenen through that particular dungeon has added to the story what couldn't have been achieved with a single line of text or the cut scene at the end of the dungeon. I see lots of disagreeing with me but no one has addressed this. How does playing the dungeon from Arenen's pathetic point of view add anything to the story? He could have said, I went through the dungeon and when I got to the end this was what I saw: cue the cut scene. We would still have his memory and still it would be narratively from his point of view.

    You want a text adventure instead? Why play the game if you replace gameplay with a line of text? You seem to hate a challenge. RP quests are all absolutely possible to complete. You need to learn how to play the game if you do not know how using skills work. Whats so hard about using smash, defense, counterattack and windmill? You're whining about these very basic skills; about cooldowns; about defending only one attack. You are meant to play with the rules the RP has given you giving you a (not impossible) challenge.

    You know what me and other people say when we overcome these challenges?: "I did it".
    Nilrem
  • SpiritikaSpiritika
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    edited May 18, 2017
    Marinth made me nostalgic. I remember playing through as Ruari, or as Mari, and for the love of god freaking MORES WITH CHAINCAST FIREBALL, and looked in amazement.

    ^ This.
    Mores with chaincast fireball was THE BEST! That RP is still my favorite of all RP dungeons.
    Hazurah wrote: »
    oh god, remember when you must clear G3 mission that requires you to use fomor robe?

    After getting the Anti-Fomor robe, I actually delayed completing the quest because I knew the robe would disappear afterwards and the robe was so cool looking! I was heartbroken to lose it upon completion of the quest and was thrilled to find the permanent, non-quest version much later. Even with all the newer more stylish robes in-game, my Anti-Fomor robe is still a treasured favorite.


  • NilremNilrem
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    Lastly, money where your mouth is people. Several of you have said that Arenen's RP was easy and one of you said it can be done barehanded. So I challenge you to do Arenen's RP barehanded and don't get hit a single time. You all seem to think that doing that is super easy so let's see it. Someone do that and I will admit I am the worst gamer in the history of time.

    Hold my drink for a moment. Gonna do better than that.
    CrimsọnFelice
  • HazurahHazurah
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,370
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    Nilrem wrote: »
    Lastly, money where your mouth is people. Several of you have said that Arenen's RP was easy and one of you said it can be done barehanded. So I challenge you to do Arenen's RP barehanded and don't get hit a single time. You all seem to think that doing that is super easy so let's see it. Someone do that and I will admit I am the worst gamer in the history of time.

    Hold my drink for a moment. Gonna do better than that.

    I did said bare handed...
    "hold my Corn Tea!"
  • NilremNilrem
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,880
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    edited May 18, 2017
    Here are the results of the "Maiz bare handed challenge"
    Keep in mind that I didn't mean I would do the challenge with "better than that".
    I meant I would show why the challenge is pointless and idiotic.



    To give a full summary (Or if you just don't want to watch):

    The bare hand challenge is entirely pointless. Bare hands, especially in the RP, would be nowhere strong enough or fast enough to be viable at any moment, even if playing with the skills of an absolute god.

    Aranen has his weapons for a reason. He is made with just the right equipment and stats to be viable in his RP.

    Trying to make a character equal to Aranen proved to be nigh impossible. Either too weak or too strong.

    I don't have the patience right now to get some random alt up to G10 just to do this RP for a video.

    Upon putting on decent gear, Maiz proved to be a very simple dungeon. Just like Aranen, I made myself properly equipped for the dungeon and promptly steamrolled it after the video was recorded.

    The only time you aren't properly equipped for an RP is Saga 2 RPs.
    Nobody likes the Saga 2 RPs.

    This is becoming an interesting little topic isn't it? Maiz has never been explored like this in years.

    Notes from an Edit:

    The first alt used was laughably weak, as shown in the video. One must be powerful for Maiz after all.

    The second alt used was somewhat strong, but still far weaker than Aranen.
    Not shown: Going back with dual hammers and learning the giant was MUCH weaker than Aranen.
    However, the 6 attacks from dual wielding made things almost a cakewalk, just like with Aranen.

    Then the main was used. Main giant is already leagues above Aranen, with the only way of making the dungeon remotely difficult being the removal of all armor and straight up not using skills.

    In a sense, it gave me an idea of how the RP goes these days.
    Aranen hits harder than the 2nd alt used, and has a 6 attack dual wield weapon setup as well.
    He is viably able to destroy any opponent in the dungeon even without skill use. Smash is just a bonus.
    He also has a lot of potions I never had with the alts. He can throw himself into danger for brief periods of time if needed.
    In a nutshell: RP gives you a very viable character. The main advice is still to just get good.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 62,775
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    edited May 18, 2017
    Felice wrote: »
    Nilrem wrote: »
    I know you might not like to hear it, but you really just need to get better at the game itself.
    I know that might sound strange when we can steamroll everything in one attack now, but having knowledge can make a big difference when things start becoming difficult.

    Nilrem said it best.

    Now for my two cents.

    I do not mean to sound evil or straight up rude, But the act of saying that DevCAT and by association, Nexon, needs to remove all Role-Play based story missions and dungeons because it denies you your character, stats, gear and skills to steamroll and flatten any challenge that presents itself to you, is hypocritical.

    By the sounds of it, you are a Melee Giant. Congratulation,s you picked Easy Mode at character creation. You show no signs or willingness to learn anything involving Single-handed/no-shield melee tactics, two-handed melee tactics, magic tactics, guerilla tactics, or any form of smart playing in general. Every single Role-Play Mission and Dungeon is designed to be 100% beatable by anyone. All you have to do is look at what you are given and know how to use it. The fact that you are unwilling to even do this much, tells me volumes about yourself.

    Yeah, I mean if you can't be bothered to complete an easy dungeon for the sake of a storyline...why are you playing? I don't mean to discourage this player, we need all the players we can get. But when someone complains about a simple little task - unfortunately you can only assume they are not going to get that far in this game. There are WAY more tedious chores and tasks on this game down the road.
    Hazurah wrote: »
    Nilrem wrote: »
    Lastly, money where your mouth is people. Several of you have said that Arenen's RP was easy and one of you said it can be done barehanded. So I challenge you to do Arenen's RP barehanded and don't get hit a single time. You all seem to think that doing that is super easy so let's see it. Someone do that and I will admit I am the worst gamer in the history of time.

    Hold my drink for a moment. Gonna do better than that.

    I did said bare handed...
    "hold my Corn Tea!"

    That drink has long gone cold.
  • ArchdukeValeCortezArchdukeValeCortez
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,380
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    Nilrem wrote: »
    Here are the results of the "Maiz bare handed challenge"
    Snip

    Well, thank you for going above and beyond with a video. The bare handed challenge was more towards Hazurah who said that all RP missions could be completed with bare hands since all RP missions are designed for that to be a thing.

    I want to call foul though on a few things in your video. You still got hit on all the characters and you used pets to zoom through the dungeon. Arenen doesn't get to have a pet. With him, we get to experience every agonizingly slow step as he trudges through the dungeon. Just as we were intended to by the designers. But you really did go above and beyond with multiple trial runs on different characters.

    Also, do you live in the server room or something? Because, yeah, your skills loaded instantly. When I play I have a very noticeable delay that has gotten my hit and/or killed before because things just do not load in a timely fashion. I can hit the button and then watch as my giant struggles to remember what Defend is.

    Lastly, I think we have wandered a little off track as most of you are just calling me names. I want the SOLO aspect of the RP removed, not the mission itself. Though I do see the mission as superfluous and merely a smokescreen for a time sink.

    Someone mentioned that the RP wouldn't be true to itself if more than one person was there. Easy fix, in the cut scene only show the person you are RPing. Completely ignore the extra people who came along. That is what STO does. You play as the chosen one spreading peace through superior firepower and if you play with friends it doesn't matter. Again, Mabi is an MMORPG. As in Massive Multiplayer. It isn't massive nor multiplayer if you are shoehorned into a thing where you have to play alone. Once again, it says it right on the launcher that you "Shape your world and play on your terms". Well my terms are not to be Arenen. Or Voight for that matter and I have to do that portion next with my sister.

    And if you guys didn't see it earlier, I did say I completed the quest. "I did it" to quote one of you polite people. I also ground refining to r1, and mining, and metallurgy is almost r1. Plus a ton of combat skills. Those at least have a purpose. All before we got this new AP training thing (who has spare AP? Well the old timers maybe.)

    I will put it out there again. What value was there in having the player become Arenen, play as Arenen through a dungeon only to get a cut scene. What narrative value was there in the dungeon crawl? The main point of the mission is to see Voight and Ilsa together sitting by the campfire correct? Why couldn't we just talked to Arenen and then be given the cut scene? We're given plenty of cut scenes after talking to a person. It's not like it would be breaking new ground.

    So if nothing is gained from playing Arenen, why not let other tag along through that dungeon? I'm conceding to having to do the dungeon here even if it is tedious and I see no value in it. I'm even conceding to playing as Arenen but why do it alone? I could have run it with my sister and we could have had a good time together. Instead we were both frustrated in how long it took to do this mission. And as one of you said, Mabi needs players. Especially paying players. But forced solo content isn't the way to get people into an MMO. I certainly am not recommending this to my friends, I play only because my sister does.

    I'm going to stop here because I want to reply to a bunch of you but I'm pretty sure I would get banned soon afterwards.
  • EraleaEralea
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    Completing Maiz Dungeon as yourself = good gear/skills

    Completing Maiz Dungeon as Arenen = good player
    AeolysZeara
  • TheDumbOneTheDumbOne
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    i like how you were very specific
    "forced memory dungeons"
    "having to play a memory dungeon that makes you do a memory"

    They should get ride of music dungeons that force you to listen to music,
    or get rid of shadow realms in shadow missions,
    or theaters in theater missions.

    just stop forcing people to do what the creation of the thing is ment to do, cause its so forced.

    -i want to be able to do memory dungeons without memories.
    -in fact becuase i didnt think that people prefer if content stayed, i want things i also like in mabinogi removed becuase i dont appreciate the content particularly.
    Zeara
  • ZearaZeara
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    Then don't do them if they're so terrible to you? :*
    I enjoyed them for the mere fact they make you think instead of HEAD IN AND EXPLODE EVERYTHING like you would with your character. Besides it's not like the entire story line is nothing but RP Dungeons, it's part of the story to show you why something happened and to give you the NPCs point of view as to why it happened the way it did. IT'S CALLED STORY TIME. I mean hell we could be doing "Kill 15 wolves now kill 30 mutated monster" quests like 99% of mmos do today.

    TheDumbOne wrote: »
    i like how you were very specific
    "forced memory dungeons"
    "having to play a memory dungeon that makes you do a memory"

    They should get ride of music dungeons that force you to listen to music,
    or get rid of shadow realms in shadow missions,
    or theaters in theater missions.

    just stop forcing people to do what the creation of the thing is ment to do, cause its so forced.

    -i want to be able to do memory dungeons without memories.
    -in fact becuase i didnt think that people prefer if content stayed, i want things i also like in mabinogi removed becuase i dont appreciate the content particularly.

    That sarcasm is so great. <3 <3
    TheDumbOne
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