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Life Skill Rework

Comments

  • OpalthiraOpalthira
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    Karuiex wrote: »
    I said all the success rates are without production buffs at the top

    What are you implying that someone is gonna level up life skills without buffs?
    That's their own fault for not using whats given to them.
    Monday bonus, Prod. parties, Harvest song, Rain casting, prod. Mastery.
    Why would you not use these things? Do you hate yourself?
    ShouK
  • ShouKShouK
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    Carlize wrote: »
    You can easily use synthesis to have pretty much endless ingots, and tailoring is relatively easy to get the materials for as well, so the only real issue is leather. I personally hate having to gather fine/finest leather. Even with the ingredient hunting title getting high grade leather is abysmally low. I pick up any I see drop while missioning, but having to spam dungeons just for leather is honestly rough. If Nexon decided to up the drop rate when the ingredient hunting title is equipped, that'd solve a lot of that issue though.
    I agree with you for the most part but I fail to see how getting fine/finest fabric and silks are relatively easy when the rng is so horrible, that you would be lucky to get more than 3 (fine and finest combined) out of 20 tries. While getting leathers is also annoying because of the drop rate, at least it seems there's an abundant of them in the server for a reasonable price, because I have a better time trying to buy them than the tailoring materials.
    Danievictria
  • IyasenuIyasenu
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    I'm totally 100% for Life Skill ranking not being like a literal part-time job anymore.

    And 100,000% for Life Skill Dan-ing (well, qualifying and requalify at any rate) not being akin to filling three separate Lake Neaghs with MP10s.


    And, like, a billion percent for Cooking getting more methods and being uncapped to Rank 1 (and Master Title).
    It was my favorite skill when I first started playing back in '08, and I really want to see it finished.
    Cooking, and all the other capped skills we still have.
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
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    It has like a 5minutes cooldown per use?
    At least thats what the wiki says.
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
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    edited August 21, 2017
    Carlize wrote: »
    I seem to be in the minority so I'll speak up. I love how grindy life skills are and I think they've been made too easy to reach r1 as is. It's very easy to get 8x for training (talent, 2x life skill pot, 2x all skill pot, event), or even 16x or 32x if you add in the returned title and the level 200 2x experience. Add in the numerous training seals we've gotten from events from the past couple years, and now AP training. It really feels too easy at this point. I'm r1 in all life skills, mastered Hillwen Engineering and I'm almost there with Magic Craft. When I saw how the dans worked, I honestly got really excited at the idea. People actually have to earn their way through the dans through hard effort. It gave me a reason to actually touch most of these skills again and start training them again. Not to sound like an old fart (especially since I wasn't really active back then) but it used to be horribly difficult to rank life skills since there weren't any bonuses, so when it was completed it was an actual achievement, not the lackluster cheesing it that it is now. Not to say that using seals is bad, by all means use what Mabi's given you to help catch up. But asking to lower the counts on skills on top of all this is a little over the top. While some skills definitely do have their negative quirks, making them easier in general just feels cheap. I'll go into detail with some of the skills you mentioned specifically:

    Blacksmithing

    At 8x those requirements are only about 150, which is more than doable. You can easily use synthesis to have pretty much endless ingots, and tailoring is relatively easy to get the materials for as well, so the only real issue is leather. I personally hate having to gather fine/finest leather. Even with the ingredient hunting title getting high grade leather is abysmally low. I pick up any I see drop while missioning, but having to spam dungeons just for leather is honestly rough. If Nexon decided to up the drop rate when the ingredient hunting title is equipped, that'd solve a lot of that issue though.

    Carpentry

    I agree it's super grindy, but for the most part the items required to craft stuff is extremely easy to get. Just stock up on lumber axes, go to a homestead with a ring of 8 chopping blocks, use harvest song, and gather while watching TV or something. I easy gather over 100 firewood within a 10 minute span. The success rate is painful, but again that's what production parties are for, and most of the materials used are easy replaceable in the grand scheme of things. As mentioned above, leather is the only thing I would agree should be changed.

    Cooking

    Cooking is by far my favorite life skill. The ratios are extremely simple. Each button is 30% and the spaces between are 5% The button can be broken up further by comparing it to the letters in the middle. So if you have a dish that's 30%, 50%, and 20% you'd put the 30% one in first and fill it as far as the first button goes, then the 20% one would go to the middle D in the middle button, and the last half would be the 50% item. It's very easy to get a hang of it, and tasting helps reduce the shaking to just about 0, and tasting is super easy to rank by either going alongside milking and drinking the milk or drinking water or certain NPC foods if you don't want your character to gain weight.

    And yes, everyone's aware it caps at 5. I completely agree they should give it the rest of the ranks, but even Korea has yet to do that. It's not NA's fault that we don't have it.

    Handicraft

    You're right in saying that handicraft relies on other life skills, and should probably largely be ranked later on as a result, but why shouldn't it incorporate other skills? It's nice to be able to take stuff from carpentry, tailoring, and blacksmithing and make more complicated items. And yes, I agree the items are pretty useless at this point, but even just at 8x you have to do less than 100 of the counts for r1, which is not bad at all. And nails can easily be gotten by hitting rocks in port Ceann. I get literally a few hundred within an hour.

    Hillwen Engineering

    The Celtic Dowra is 54% at r1 according to the wiki, and that's before the 15% bonus from production mastery and 5% from harvest song, so you're looking at 74% before a production party. Since each other r1 engineer gives 4%, you can get 98% with a party of 7. And again, it's tedious but extremely doable material wise, as you would be training with zeders so the rare celtic mats are irrelevant since you wouldn't want to craft them until at least getting the title, as you have a bonus for producing it with a better quality.

    Magic Craft

    Training-wise nothing that I can think of was below 95% success at r1, which becomes 99% with a harvest song. Everything that is required for crafting is actually very easy to get, it's possible to clear out a section of floor 2 and gather the herbs for hours, and the animal parts are just a cycle of killing bunnies and plants in floor 2 while you wait to meteor the sasquatches. Aside from a few days of dedicated gathering, there's nothing spectacular with the materials which is why I don't see the counts being too much.

    Tailoring

    The failing is extremely easy. If the rank of the manual is seen as too easy, it'll count as a fail. So just make hundreds of wizard hats or whichever rF item uses a material you have an excess of. Aside from that, it's just using raw material as mentioned below to craft the items.

    Weaving

    I honestly don't get why no one enjoys weaving. It's a very zen process for me. Especially with hide, enthralling, and kristell dolls, getting cobwebs is extremely easy. Even wool isn't bad. I recommend getting a normal sheep pet, as the cloud sheep only have 200 gathers a day. You could always gather from someone else's sheep too. I've also had friends ask if they could have the first gather of the day for the cloud sheep, which is a guaranteed huge lucky bonus, and since people rarely use it themselves they're likely to be happy to help if asked. You can also use someone else's normal sheep, just have a friend afk in the hot springs and gather to your hearts content. Again, the only issue is the leather. You can also fragment the silks and fabrics to get the raw materials to try again. And honestly if someone's trying to craft without r1 production mastery they deserve to have a hard time. Just make tons of paper cranes or gather materials for all these tedious life skills. r1 production mastery can easily be done within a day even without bonuses. And if you don't have r1 harvest song then just ask a friend, but it's easy enough to get and train that not having them shouldn't really be a consideration.

    Life skills really aren't bad when broken down like this and don't deserve to be made easier by any standards. Most skills are a joke, I literally got over 80 combat skills from rC or worse to r1 within a few weeks time. Life skills there's at least still some effort required to do them. And needless to say having friends helps, be it for the production bonuses or if they're kind enough to help gather. But yeah, life skills are honestly not for everyone, but they are definitely worth the effort.
    Honestly being how all the end game gear is craftable there should be a reason for it to be behind a grind.
  • RedetsuRedetsu
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    @Carlize I agree that the leather drops are abysmal, it would have been helpful if weaving could be used to possibly take 3~5 of a lower grade leather to make one of the higher grade of leather. And speaking of weaving, I wish we were able to choose which fabric or silk to make instead of hoping for the right one. Even with the specific weaving gloves it doesn't seem helpful, and it feels like time was wasted after gathering for most of the day, making almost 500 threads, and getting only 2 finest and 3 fine from it.

    I do have a question for Tailoring. I understand that making something using a lower ranking pattern will result as a fail, but for rank 1, how will I be able to get the "very bad" result? I'm trying to reach 100 points in order to try the advancement test.
  • IyasenuIyasenu
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    Redetsu wrote: »
    @Carlize I agree that the leather drops are abysmal, it would have been helpful if weaving could be used to possibly take 3~5 of a lower grade leather to make one of the higher grade of leather. And speaking of weaving, I wish we were able to choose which fabric or silk to make instead of hoping for the right one. Even with the specific weaving gloves it doesn't seem helpful, and it feels like time was wasted after gathering for most of the day, making almost 500 threads, and getting only 2 finest and 3 fine from it.

    I do have a question for Tailoring. I understand that making something using a lower ranking pattern will result as a fail, but for rank 1, how will I be able to get the "very bad" result? I'm trying to reach 100 points in order to try the advancement test.

    Unfortunately, the best advice I've heard for that is to derank prod mastery and drink a Production Failure potion.
    And then spam something easy like hairbands.
    Will still be rng whether a fail's a fail or a huge fail, but I think that's still the best way to get that done.
  • ArjuneArjune
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    Xiokun wrote: »
    Karuiex wrote: »
    Anyone have thoughts on why it should stay the same?

    "Because I want everyone to suffer like I did before AP Training, Seals, and Training pots existed."
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    This is the only reason I can think of.

    well maybe if you were the one forced to go through that suffering only to see people living on easy street you'd understand. This is just how people are... that's why some parents still say crap like "when I was your age I had to walk to school in 10 feet of snow both ways!".
  • IyasenuIyasenu
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    Arjune wrote: »
    Xiokun wrote: »
    Karuiex wrote: »
    Anyone have thoughts on why it should stay the same?

    "Because I want everyone to suffer like I did before AP Training, Seals, and Training pots existed."
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    This is the only reason I can think of.

    well maybe if you were the one forced to go through that suffering only to see people living on easy street you'd understand. This is just how people are... that's why some parents still say crap like "when I was your age I had to walk to school in 10 feet of snow both ways!".

    Emphasis on maybe.

    At the very least, I'm not the kind of miseryguts who would want everyone to always have a hard time with something just because I did.

    And "some parents" should really just hope that those that come after them have it easier.
    KaruiexDanievictria
  • NanocaNanoca
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    The term you are all looking for is "Grindanogi".
  • DanievictriaDanievictria
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    edited August 22, 2017
    Arjune wrote: »
    The actual action of gathering resources can be oddly soothing, though...particularly sheering sheep. Mining though...it's either be strong enough to run Bari solo, stay stuck on G1 for a while and keep abusing that black pass, get a stronger player to play bodyguard for you while you go mineral hunting in Bari, or endure the annoyingly
    .

    you really only have to mine 1 stack of each ingot ... after that you just need holy water and arat crystals and you can use synthesis to dupe hundreds of them. Honestly I would have ripped my hair out if I had to actually mine and refine all my ingots for blacksmithing

    Which is great...if you've already got Mining, Metallurgy, and Refining at rank 1 and all you need is materials for ranking Blacksmithing. If you also have to rank those skills on top of Blacksmithing, though (and it's better to rank skills for gathering raw materials and making refined materials up along the way, especially when they give stats you need for your main combat talent), It's more efficient to just bite the bullet and gather stuff the old fashioned way. It's a pain in the butt, but you get the skills topped off sooner like that.
    ShouK wrote: »
    Carlize wrote: »
    You can easily use synthesis to have pretty much endless ingots, and tailoring is relatively easy to get the materials for as well, so the only real issue is leather. I personally hate having to gather fine/finest leather. Even with the ingredient hunting title getting high grade leather is abysmally low. I pick up any I see drop while missioning, but having to spam dungeons just for leather is honestly rough. If Nexon decided to up the drop rate when the ingredient hunting title is equipped, that'd solve a lot of that issue though.
    I agree with you for the most part but I fail to see how getting fine/finest fabric and silks are relatively easy when the rng is so horrible, that you would be lucky to get more than 3 (fine and finest combined) out of 20 tries. While getting leathers is also annoying because of the drop rate, at least it seems there's an abundant of them in the server for a reasonable price, because I have a better time trying to buy them than the tailoring materials.

    Well, it's easier if you use the weaving gloves that give you a better chance at producing the fabric or silk you need. Since you can't repair them, though, you either need to keep buying lots of them to swap them out when they get destroyed or buy patterns to make new ones with your unneeded, lower grade fabrics. I agree that the RNG can still be really frustrating, even with using the gloves to increase your chances of getting the material you need, though. It kind of makes me wish we could just pick what grade of fabric/silk we want to make at the loom, with each requiring a different amount of thread.
  • lceCreamlceCream
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    edited August 22, 2017
    ...With lvl 200 and all these 2x events/pots and seals, everything becomes easy, also brionac training, ap training...nowadays you barely have to touch life skills
    Opalthira
  • KaruiexKaruiex
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    Thank you all for commenting just a reminder this wasn't a "I want it to be reworked asap post" it was just a friendly post about what is the communities thoughts on it lol again thank you!
  • SaiSai
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    edited August 22, 2017
    Xiokun wrote: »
    Karuiex wrote: »
    Anyone have thoughts on why it should stay the same?

    "Because I want everyone to suffer like I did before AP Training, Seals, and Training pots existed."
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    This is the only reason I can think of.
    There is also before talents existed and before you could queue items in the craft window. Wew!

    Not fun. Still not fun even now.
  • lidiyalidiya
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    edited August 23, 2017
    Xiokun wrote: »
    Karuiex wrote: »
    Anyone have thoughts on why it should stay the same?

    "Because I want everyone to suffer like I did before AP Training, Seals, and Training pots existed."
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    This is the only reason I can think of.

    Pretty much that is the only reason

    As is life skills are among some of the most worthless skills in game as the vast majority of what they make is completely worthless or takes months of farming the same dungeon until you lose your mind to get mats for.
    It is a bit ironic that the most worthless skills are among the hardest to train.

    IMO they need a complete overhaul make mats drop more often, remove 99% of the RNG from making mats, remove the RNG of actually making the item, remove the need for manuals, add more items, and overhaul the crafting UI. This game has the worst crafting system I've seen out of all the MMO's I've played.
  • ShouKShouK
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    Well, it's easier if you use the weaving gloves that give you a better chance at producing the fabric or silk you need. Since you can't repair them, though, you either need to keep buying lots of them to swap them out when they get destroyed or buy patterns to make new ones with your unneeded, lower grade fabrics. I agree that the RNG can still be really frustrating, even with using the gloves to increase your chances of getting the material you need, though. It kind of makes me wish we could just pick what grade of fabric/silk we want to make at the loom, with each requiring a different amount of thread.
    I used those gloves lol