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Real Talk: Nerf Chainz

Comments

  • HazurahHazurah
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,875
    Posts: 397
    Member
    edited February 9, 2018
    i dont get the point of OPness if EVERYone can use it

    i mean, you dont fight against it or seeing another race exclusively using it

    like Final hit and Magnum Spam
    HardmuscleJazmynSherriCoolAid
  • CrimsCrims
    Mabinogi Rep: 45,555
    Posts: 6,889
    Member
    edited February 9, 2018
    "TheOthic wrote: »
    what :error: lol
    It's funny if you knew what 40k is.




    Also I still use fh, I have a complete fh set + mana shield damage reduction 19. Your chains got nothing on me.



    XD
    TrythisCoolAid
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,465
    Posts: 941
    Member
    I can hit for 10+k with chainblade at level 900.
    Any other skill even if throw all my ap into skills that get me to near 1k in any stat only deal 5k max.
    And that 10k damage/ Its non-crit hits....
    Yeah chainblade isnt op in anyway.
    Oh i also left out the part where they can stunlock with basic attacks even against heavy stander enemies.
    Not to mention the skills have "stun duration" on almost all the skills.
    i don't even need to use anything other than chainblade anymore for low-mid game content.
    Crims
  • EllisyaEllisya
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,105
    Posts: 482
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    There's no satisfying option so not worth to vote.

    Chains are fine. It also gives player option to play with something that's not really involved with reforges after all; with reforge they are good but even without reforge it's quite nice, not like archery that requires reforge whatsoever. /smh
    HardmuscleTrythisSherriCoolAidRainthesword
  • JulieJulie
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,495
    Posts: 284
    Member
    Ellisya wrote: »
    There's no satisfying option so not worth to vote.

    Chains are fine. It also gives player option to play with something that's not really involved with reforges after all; with reforge they are good but even without reforge it's quite nice, not like archery that requires reforge whatsoever. /smh

    it doesnt need reforges to be good therefore pls nerf :U
    SylviaWolfe
  • EllisyaEllisya
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,105
    Posts: 482
    Member
    Julie wrote: »
    Ellisya wrote: »
    There's no satisfying option so not worth to vote.

    Chains are fine. It also gives player option to play with something that's not really involved with reforges after all; with reforge they are good but even without reforge it's quite nice, not like archery that requires reforge whatsoever. /smh

    it doesnt need reforges to be good therefore pls nerf :U

    You are just joking right?
    Jazmyn
  • JulieJulie
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,495
    Posts: 284
    Member
    Ellisya wrote: »
    Julie wrote: »
    Ellisya wrote: »
    There's no satisfying option so not worth to vote.

    Chains are fine. It also gives player option to play with something that's not really involved with reforges after all; with reforge they are good but even without reforge it's quite nice, not like archery that requires reforge whatsoever. /smh

    it doesnt need reforges to be good therefore pls nerf :U

    You are just joking right?

    yes im just joking.
    HardmuscleJazmyn
  • RaykaRayka
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,345
    Posts: 123
    Member
    why i have a dejavu about the same talk of Puppetry when it first come out?
    HardmuscleShadoeZeoTrythisSherriRainthesword
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 12,840
    Posts: 2,553
    Member
    edited February 5, 2019
  • LOLCanoLOLCano
    Mabinogi Rep: 785
    Posts: 10
    Member
    How about we remove reforges from the game first?
    :^)
    ShadoeZeoHardmuscleGretaTrythisKageitoSherriCoolAid
  • LongSlyLongSly
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,210
    Posts: 86
    Member
    I would agree to an extent on some points, however since dungeons were made harder sometime during my 3-4 year hiatus (Barri normal HURTS, don't get me started on Fiodh normal). I can't press the issue hard but only to bring it up.

    Chain Blades are easily spamable than archery, makes close-combat fully obsolete, archery being a close second to it (can still do heavy wounding with bows, chain blades about average). Even if you do Counter or Defense a chain-blade, the user may be out of reach for you to do anything in time and can still recover quickly to going back to stun you, or even a Defense trigger won't put a delay in their next attack unlike Close Combat, also chain sweep bypasses both Counter and Defense. Able to take a hit and Anchor Rush to another spot and counter (granted Anchor Rush is loaded prior to the hit, otherwise you may got them.) to potentially being juggled around and pushed back. Death Mark also makes it easier to do damage, even if only for a short period of time which could be enough.

    I don't have Spinning Slasher, Raging Spike, Chain Burst, or Bachram Explosion, yet able to defeat Veteran Bandits (which are Awful rank to me) with little difficulty. Chain Sweep, Chain Crush, Impale here and there, stun them with normal chain-blade attacks, wash, rinse, repeat.

    From my understanding of all this, Chain Slasher is more of a end-game talent as you can breeze through a lot of story stuff with it (far as I know G1-G3), not counting for finales with mobs that have heavy standard 2 or higher (heavy gargoyles being a fine example).

    The only combat flaw with Chain Blade is that it fairs average with multi-combat, meaning if you have multi-aggro mobs on you, you'll have a difficult time with Chain Blade (especially if they're fast and too strong to take alone) and Archery can still out range you if given enough time for a high percent chance of hitting, even with Anchor Rush to possibly close the gap as you may be pushed back by Magnum Shot. Chain Sweep might save you crits-be-giving, but you may end up aggro-ing more mobs than you wish you can handle at once. Chain Blade seems more one-on-one than one-on-many depending on the difficulty/targets, but even if just one-on-one it's more powerful than Fighter and makes Close Combat fully obsolete.

    There's also the Bachram Burst that recovers everything (including wound, hunger, and any cool-downs; good for a second Meteor Strike) and gives you a full Dorcha Gauge until it runs out, but it does take time for the gauge to fill up (both gauges reset to 0 if you log out or change channels though).

    You're also able to acquire Dorcha when you don't have the Chain Blade equipped, but in small fractions compared to when you do have the chain blade equipped.

    Also I wouldn't consider Chain Slash a starter talent compare to Close Combat and Fighter, as the latter 2 got barely anything better to offer and some of the skills in Chain Slash require going through high-end content like Peaca Basic or the Baltane missions (hate the bears!) The skills you start out with are good for starters and can get a newbie pretty far very quickly. Death Mark offers a little help but not much, and Dorcha Conversion would require you to rank up fast and have lots of HP on you too.

    It's for these reasons I try to use chain blade less often unless I have to. I like a challenges, and chain blades sorta takes away challenges that don't need to be taken away (zombies in Their Method, for example, being a fair exception to that; can only windmil so much till you run out of Stam and start chugging potions). If I'm not chain-blading I'm usually doing Close Combat with a sword.

    I wouldn't mind a little nerf in some areas, but again since dungeons were revamped and made harder (not story dungeons though), there's very little solid reason TO nerf at this time, at least based on the Chain skills I have access to. For now, they can stay but the discussion does need to be brought up at some point.
    Upon writing this a thought occurred to me; let me know if this was brought up before and yes, this is an off the cuff thought.

    Would it be possible to have the Bachram Burst as it's own passive skill than just being a gauge? Rank F would be (rough example) 50% recovery of wound, hunger, and any cool-downs (a 5 min cool down will be 2.5mins, or if there's 3 mins left in the CD it would be 1.5 mins), along with a subtle speed of the Dorcha Gauge filling up but slower than it is now. Rank 1 would be what it is now. There would be no change to how long it needs to fill up nor change of how long it lasts, I have no issue with those two as they are perfectly balanced alone.

    I have no thoughts of how to rank it up if it was a skill, but my initial thought is that in order to rank it up, number of chain blade skills must be a rank higher than the Bachram Burst skill, and Bachram Burst must be triggered a certain amount of times too (1 to ~10 times would be a good range from low to high rank, given how much effort is required for them to trigger; 1 time for rank E-D, 3 times for rank C to A, 5 times for rank 9 to 5, etc.) Say... 3 chain blade skills must be Rank E or higher for Bachram Burst to be Rank E, eventually it'll get to 4 skills, 5 skills, to whatever the max should be to get it to Rank 1.

    I have no thoughts of AP cost for ranking it once it reaches 100 points, whether it should rank up automatically or require small to big AP.


    TL;DR: I'm indifferent about the chain blades needing to be nerfed, but wouldn't mind a Bachram Burst passive skill to maybe make it more balanced to use and not be an easy go-to for some players, nor make the game too easy for newbies. At this time I'm fine with it for the most part due to dungeons being revamped, but at some point it does need a balance check.


    Also... you can counter-attack Final Hit and cut the skill length short, unless that was changed during my hiatus.
    Sherri
  • BuffalosBuffalos
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,765
    Posts: 796
    Member, Volunteer Forum Moderator
    Rayka wrote: »
    why i have a dejavu about the same talk of Puppetry when it first come out?
    Because this game has been power creep with new talents for the past few years. New stuff is amazing and 'broken' until something else new pops along.
    LOLCano wrote: »
    How about we remove reforges from the game first?
    :^)
    You want to start a riot in Korea? Because that's how you start a riot in Korea.
  • EnaEna
    Mabinogi Rep: 705
    Posts: 68
    Member
    yep plz nerf it. take that bacharm accumulate out, it is so annoy me with evil giggle when the bar is full
  • EraleaEralea
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,085
    Posts: 713
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    LongSly wrote: »
    Also... you can counter-attack Final Hit and cut the skill length short, unless that was changed during my hiatus.

    That was changed during your hiatus
  • LongSlyLongSly
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,210
    Posts: 86
    Member
    Eralea wrote: »
    LongSly wrote: »
    Also... you can counter-attack Final Hit and cut the skill length short, unless that was changed during my hiatus.

    That was changed during your hiatus

    WELP... that was the only way to go against FH and get out of a stun-lock... oh well.
  • ShadoeShadoe
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,090
    Posts: 241
    Member
    LongSly wrote: »
    Eralea wrote: »
    LongSly wrote: »
    Also... you can counter-attack Final Hit and cut the skill length short, unless that was changed during my hiatus.

    That was changed during your hiatus

    WELP... that was the only way to go against FH and get out of a stun-lock... oh well.

    That's when you have a pet help.
    Counter should still knock a finalhitter away for a moment and that might allow you time to load a skill, depending on your ping.
  • JulieJulie
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,495
    Posts: 284
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    edited February 10, 2018
    LongSly wrote: »
    Eralea wrote: »
    LongSly wrote: »
    Also... you can counter-attack Final Hit and cut the skill length short, unless that was changed during my hiatus.

    That was changed during your hiatus

    WELP... that was the only way to go against FH and get out of a stun-lock... oh well.

    pvp in this game was never really good.

    and its only gotten worse with pets.
  • ShadoeShadoe
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,090
    Posts: 241
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    Julie wrote: »
    pvp in this game was never really good.

    and its only gotten worse with pets.

    I don't think about pvp. I was just thinking of fh from mobs.
  • RheyRhey
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,835
    Posts: 1,474
    Member
    Rayka wrote: »
    why i have a dejavu about the same talk of Puppetry when it first come out?

    I remember people talked about Puppet was only broken 4 it being a divine link prototype(Aggro management) when it had the broken def/prot bug.
    Once that was fix puppetry was pretty much on par with other talents. U'd have to invest heavily(more than skills/stats alone) just 2 dish-out 20k+ when critting out of this talent. Not 2 mention if Nexon didn't give alt methods to acquire demonic weps only the top 10% of playerz wuld have a special upgrade-able control bars needed for the crit multipliers. :s

    I can buy a cardinal rite out of ferghus's shop and start doing up 2 10k-ish nakkid. :o
  • JazmynJazmyn
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,565
    Posts: 1,009
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    Rhey wrote: »
    I can buy a cardinal rite out of ferghus's shop and start doing up 2 10k-ish nakkid. :o

    But that's likely due to your actual stats, not 100% the talent alone?
    Shadoe