Buffalos

Hardmuscle wrote: »

It's not that I don't have a conscious; it's that we're talking about the difference between one tab and the other. Two tabs among four in the same window. You're assuming new players will choose Chain Slash (over Fighter or Close Combat) because it's available as a Starter Talent in the first tab with a difficulty rating of 2.5 stars (out of 5). I'm not the one assuming anything here. You and your pals in this thread are doing all of the assuming. Assuming a new player will not click the second tab and research their options is in fact questioning their intelligence. ~ You can twist and turn and weasel in whatever direction you want; those are the facts.

The point of the beginner tab is to give suggestions for starter choices, not to advertise a brand new talent (with the NEW tag included). Your're right that newbies can pick whatever freaking tab they want, but the point of the 1st is to give a gentle little nudge into a more friendly skillset that isn't this one. The skillset's power isn't a fair trade for the blatant disrespect of showing skills in a tutorial that no newbie can learn. Bacharm Boost doesn't excuse immense repair costs for the weapon or even close to negate potion costs like you claim.
Your lack of empathy on this is frankly appalling.

Dianusia wrote: »

That's the point. It should be EASIER, because it is in "beginner" tab with a 2.5 difficulty rating, while in reality it's full of sorrow and pain for someone who starts his journey in Erinn. Trust me, as a beginner myself.

THIS is what the beginner tab is for. Something that introduces combat in a slow and controlled pace and not "okay you need to micromanage your target spacing, resource usage, and pray you don't get double aggro'd because you didn't micromanage resources."

Hardmuscle wrote: »

You chose Archery from the Second Tab on your first rebirth? You actually clicked on it ( hey Buffalos are you reading this > ? ).. ? If you can click on the Second Tab and choose Archery or Magic .. what's stopping anyone else from doing the same thing and choosing Chain Slash from the Second Tab.. ?

Go read the very first paragraph of text by me in this post you dimwit. Seriously just read it again until that sinks into your thick skull.

Dianusia wrote: »

Seriously, I guess there is no point in talking with you, because you are the only person using same arguments over and over again, so I guess I will pass, following Buffalos.

Ohh I did say that I'd stop didn't I. Opps.

Greta wrote: »

You guys keep beating the dead horse here at this point.

Honestly gonna agree with ya and fold out. There's no use arguing with someone without a conscious about ethical advice in a game. Not when the defenses remain the same when the counters change.

Hardmuscle wrote:

Since the beginning of this thread you've been outlining what you feel is bad about Chain Slash AP or good about Close Combat.... and not a damn bit of anything you said is relevant to the topic (unless you want it locked on the second tab).

Earth to Hard: THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE HERE ARE WANTING. Take it off the beginner tab, read the freaking thread title.

Hardmuscle wrote:

Whether or not Chain Slash is good or bad makes no difference when the new user in question can rebirth every 24 hours.

1) Daily rebirths don't fix misguidance.
2) I actually like the daily rebirth feature. It tries to make newbies spread out more, but again MOST OF THEM FOCUS THE FIRST TALENT THEY PICK/LIKE TO NEAR COMPLETION BEFORE MOVING ON.

Hardmuscle wrote:

Yeah, I said those evil words again, and the only reason you don't like it is because you're over total level 1000 (like me and most people) and it no longer benefits you.

I'm not sure where you got the pretense that I dislike the daily rebirth feature solely because "I can't use it." Are there anymore assumptions about my opinions on the game that you wish to guess incorrectly? This is turning into a running theme with you and me and it's really quite childish.

Hardmuscle wrote:

Now get off your dead skin, make a new account, and live the gamestyle (as the brand new player who chose Chain Slash as their first Talent) you've been ridiculing for the past 3 pages.

I would if I weren't in classes. But how about the testament of three new players I met and two who quit the game after getting zero attachment to the game with the BS skill obtainment methods in a "beginner talent." If your beginner talent is scaring beginners off when others typically don't, it's not a beginner talent.

Hardmuscle wrote:

Most new users can't afford to live without Bachram. ~ because HP, MP, and SP pots cost money. ~ Remember? Money needed for repairs.

There was a time before Bacharm, and since you're soo hell-bent on bringing that time up to defend your points on previous skill grinds it's only fair I bring that up to counter your stance on excessive cost of potions. Everyone lived through that time, and most got off fine in it (see below).
Most NPC shop weapon/armor repairs aren't that expensive, and if anything, giving a newbie a chain blade as a main weapon is going to cost them more gold in the long run because chain blades cost 3x+ the amount of gold to repair than basic swords and bows. (Also don't forget that potions drop in decent numbers in the beginner zone dungeons and chapter 1 story dungeons, so potion money isn't going to be a super massive issue)

Hardmuscle wrote:

Even if this Talent were to be locked on the Second Tab; that restriction would only be in place until the 2nd rebirth. (This debate isn't worth having).

Might be just me, but every time I rebirth my 15k+ character the talent screen defaults to the beginner tab. I'm really not sure what you're getting at there, with that observation considered.

Dianusia wrote:

ESPECIALLY after questline that shows you two skills, but teaches you one skill.

This is a massive no-no with game design. You shouldn't give a player a skill in a tutorial setting and then promptly take it away upon leaving said tutorial. Add that to the pile of issues with this talent's implementation.

Greta wrote: »

Plot Twist: Buffalos is not from Nexon. He's just a Discord group Moderator and Mabinogi Ambassador, which means he's still regular player like you or me, only with some extra work to do like helping others and moderate Discord server.

Someone gets it! : O

Greta wrote: »

Oh wow. Apparently they even added this in the announcement? So it was official. Lol, awkwarrrrdddddddd.... Nexon GG. I didn't even see that.

Yeeeeeeah that's why I posted that in announces when I did. Pulled up the official post like ten times just to make sure something was actually gonna' happen after I did. I imagine someone will explain something at some point? Dunno.

Hardmuscle wrote: »

You have a lot of nerve. You really do.

Said the guy who came in here gun's blazing.

Hardmuscle wrote: »

Just prior to a new user's very first rebirth (via the rebirth and talent quest from Duncan), they are sent to a special area (hosted by Tin) where they can try out Talents. When they're done; they can leave the map, talk to Duncan, and commence with their very first (forced) rebirth. At this time they are given the chance to choose a Talent. Their available choices are presented to them on three of four visible tabs. The First Tab says 'Starter Talent'. The Second Tab says 'Combat Talent'. The Third Tab says 'Life Talent'. The Fourth Tab says 'Hero Talent'. This entire thread is focused on the fact that Chain Slash is visible on both the First Tab and the Second Tab. You are assuming new users won't (or don't) have the brain capacity to view more than the First Tab of Talents they're presented with (despite knowing they had a chance to try each of them, just prior to said rebirth).

Hardmuscle wrote: »

One more time Buffalos ~ How will moving Chain Slash out of the First Tab change anything? ~ Tell me again how dumb people are.

I'm not questioning their intelligence. If you're going to put words down my throat at least make them characteristic of myself instead of what you truly think.
The newbie area let's the new crowd try out everything with minimal context, no bias, and no limit. It's cool and opens them up to what they can do down the road. The first talent pick is normally rather random or whatever the player thought looked better, but the rebirth screen's talent selection is supposed to better categorize the talents and let the player make a slightly more informed choice.

If a player is brand new to a game and sees the words BEGINNER TALENT plastered on a tab in the selection screen, they'll assume that those talents are more geared towards the newbies (what a shock!). Not everyone is going to pick from the tab (which is fine), but the ones who do are going into the game thinking that their talent was made for them: someone new.
Looking at everything I've posted, it should be clear that statement isn't the case here. 6 of the 13 skills are locked behind hunting/fetch quests that newbies cannot complete without considerable strength, the stat point gain will barely help other talents when you consider the level costs to get them, and the dangerous assumption that everything else in the game with be as much of a quest and training grind. The talent isn't meant to be an easy thing. Why are you okay with that being presented to newbies as "beginner friendly"?

Hardmuscle wrote: »

~ Now ...
The beginner weapon post was made out of sarcasm; hence the reason I wasn't so friendly to Buffalos.

The fact that you have to come in here and explain that to everyone is quite honestly pathetic. You've overused the troll face emoji on this forum so nobody ever knows when you're serious anymore.

Hardmuscle wrote: »

Going back to the first page... when GandorEU said, "You think from perspective of long time player that knows the game well"... ~ I initially disagreed with that statement, because new users can rebirth daily, but now I have to turn around and agree with it too (but not for the reason they initially gave). Yeah! I think from the perspective of someone who learned their skills individually, at their leisure, without a leash.

Going to share why that is? Because from what I've seen from you here you're as hard opposed to the notion as humanly possible.