This is a general critique on the gameplay experience of Mabinogi and how we as players might benefit from improvements to the game.
I have played this game for many years and these problems have always stood out to me.
1. The in-game economy is broken
Mabinogi's economy is completely rigged by the demand for limited edition items only obtained by real life money or nexon cash. Those that are lucky enough to have rich parents willing to sink real life money into the game, instantly find themselves in a place of power ahead of players that cannot afford that luxury. This puts everyone else at a complete disadvantage. Nexon's cynical corporatism is so blatant in the way it gives players with no option but to spend real money, to keep up with the elite players in the game. Nexon only half-heartedly attempts to even out the odds to this rigged system, by offering some special items in events, and the use of production skills. Despite this, the imbalance between nexon cash buyers and poorer players is still very significant and can even ruin the game experience. It is also almost impossible to play the games without a pet for transportation. Even though Nexon now provides us with a free eagle and horse, it's disappointing how long it too the game developers to provide something so essential and basic to all players. Aside from the complete divide among players and their experience, by those willing to pay up and those not, the economy is still very shoddy and ineffective at best. Armor and items cost more to repair and care for than they do to buy, giving many players no incentive to buy one or manage one at all. For most of my time playing this game, I wore only the cheapest clothing available during battle because the durability repair prices were obscene. It seems they have gotten cheaper, but only a little.
How can we fix this?
Items should absolutely cost less to repair than they are just to own. It should be possible for almost any item to be made using production skills, even if it's very hard to obtain the materials. This would give poor players more incentive to work hard and earn the cool rare items that rich players can simply buy. But because currently most items are impossible to obtain without money, many poorer players find the game to be dull, challenging and pointless. Why even play this game if I can't ever obtain the cool items they have? Why bother? Where is the fun in always feeling like a second-class player in the game because I don't have real life money? that ruins the fun of a game, to earn things. If Nexon made it possible to earn most items, even if it took a ton of high ranking skills, these players would be quick to find the game so unlikable, and Mabinogi would be more beloved among such players; and the spirit of the game would be more positive and exciting. People would be much more engaged, working towards earning rare items; instead of disillusioned and insulted by Mabinogi's system. It would finally be everybody's game. And imagine how much more popular and successful the game would be, if it were "everbody's game"
2. This game is aggressively unwelcoming to new players
Mabinogi has a fatal gameplay flaw that is also a reason it is so popular, ironically; there is absolutely no limit to how powerful a player can be. Technically, there are only so many skills a character can max out before they have reached rank 1 on all of them, but that would take an eternity for any one player to do. Not to mention realistically, there is no limit to how high level a player can be. This on it's own, isn't a big deal right? except that this causes what I like to call, level inflation. The goal of a game should be to become an elite or high ranking player. To reach the full potential of the character. Once a person reaches that full potential, they are objectively, a high ranking player, and can feel a cool sort of belonging with the other high ranking players. Unfortunately, that's impossible. Without a real end goal to the game or limit to how rich and powerful a player can be, the only thing that truly defines how great a player is, is how long they've been playing the game. Those that have been playing the game longer, naturally, will have more high ranking skills and a higher level than those that have not been playing long. This means, a new player will always. Always. ALWAYS be behind an old player. No matter how hard that new player tries to catch up, since that old player can just keep on leveling with him or her, they will always be ahead. It is impossible to catch up with the high ranking players in the game. Once a newbie, always a newbie. This makes the game feel infuriating and pointless. Why bother trying to be an epic player in the game if you'll just eternally far behind the other players. Not only that but the players don't make matters any better. People on the game are not generally helpful to new players and I've found that mostly, people in the game can be rather aggressive and uninviting. Guilds are exclusive. Rich players burn 1 mil gold in a campfire for fun while beginners can't afford weapons. It's a dog eat dog situation and Nexon has made the game into a cruel and competitive space by design.
How can we fix this?
There has to be a limit. A level cap. Either make a limit to how strong the players can be, how much money they can own, and so forth, or be forced to continue trying to resolve the handicap of being a new player by giving them advantages, that really only barely ease the problem. Because there is no limit, the levels are in constant inflation. The standard of what makes a player a great player at the game, is constantly being raised and out of reach for beginners. You can try boosting their level from the start but where's the fun in that? Put a cap on the levels and abilities, an attainable goal, and give the new players a fighting chance. Otherwise, new players join, and instantly get discourages and feel unwelcome in the game and quickly give up.
3. The quests are a pain
I cannot count how many quests are simply delivering an item from one place to another followed by a headache of exposition. It is so dull, so uninteresting, I'd rather skip it all together at times. If any aspect of a game has become a chore to it's players that makes them groan and wish it didn't exist, you're not doing it right. A player should look forward to every aspect of a game, including it's story or quests. In a good game, even dull quests are made brief and easy to do but because travel is such a pain in Mabinogi, they take time. This game would be better if we had less delivery quests altogether. But this is not nearly as egregious of a problem compared to say, the fact that we have so many quests at a time that we can't even find the quests when we complete them without digging around. It's clearly a problem. Along with this, Nexon continues to add more and more beginner quests and tutorials for early players to complete that have been nothing short of terrible, obnoxious and unnecessary. I know absolutely no one who has seriously benefited from the current, never-ending tutorial quests Nexon has for it's new players. It's not so much that each individual one is so awful. There are just. so. many. and plenty have infuriating errors, especially the quests involved in fighting training dummies in a special sort of beginner's dungeon. This series of quests are not only long-winded and never-ending but also rifled with glitches that make it hard to complete simple skills. Did anybody play-test these?! Anyone?!
How can we fix this?
Nexon needs to trim down the number of quests in the game. Total. especially the unnecessary ones that have no obvious benefits, such as training quests. I understand that players in the past have struggled without learning the proper strategies of skill combos. I understand that it's an important thing all players should know how to do. But they cram these tutorials down all our throats and there is just too many. And for some reason, Nexon forces long-standing players to do the beginner tutorials AGAIN. Nexon needs to trim down, or condense a lot of their delivery quests, limit how many a player can have at once, and just generally make quests less dull and uninteresting. Nexon could even just make a few things optional.
These are my three main critiques on all Mabinogi's gameplay is frustrating and unfair to it's players. Feel free to add your opinion, and weigh in on realistic ways Nexon can improve the game. I think it's important we talk about these problems, not to hurt the game, but to help it.
Comments
MFW: New players get 3 pets for free. 90 days worth of style tab for free. Three outfits for free, Additional pon for free, can rebirth every 24 hours until lv1000, 6 character cards for free, premium features when creating these characters for free.
T00Agressive4Me I scared.
item 1) There are issues with the in-game economy, but let's not forget, Nexon is a business not a charity. The game must make an expected rate of return or it goes by by. So buy buy. That being said a nice simple way to make things more difficult for those "gaming" the system would be the simple measure of getting rid of Cheques. Then large money transfers would become a pain; no more 70M for friggen wings. (I am sooooo glad I never got into wings or tails BTW).
item 2a) Level Cap? No friggen way!
item 2b) As for the game being unwelcoming to new players, I bid to differ, and put forth it has never been better to them than now:
- the unlearned tab helps them a ton,
- you start with a reasonably good weapon, rather than a substandard pseudo spirit weapon.
- the combat lessons actually teach you a VERY good combo: normal/counter/defend -repeat
- best of all you can now go to duncan whenever you want and as often as you want for a complete skill reset. This alone will significantly shorten the time it takes to build up your character. I did it the hard way to the tune of literally hundreds of dollars worth of skill reset caps (the one skill one level kind). So I have done my part to keep this game alive; to the rest of you I quote Maui: "you're welcome".
item 3) Whereas G1 is definitely a pain with all that stupid running around, you can use delivery quests to your advantage by pre-collecting materiel. This allows you to run several alt characters through PTJ's in a single game day. Also, there are six daily quests that give adventure seals that are just hand something to someone. You can have alts quickly run through those then transfer the adventure seals back to your main via the bank. I don't want to lose either of these.
Plus free pets, a book that lets you travel anywhere completely for free. Other goodies like decent looking outfits.
Not to mention mabi being a game where total level in the end is kind of meaningless. Just sorta a number to epeen about.
7 starting character cards + 2 from siding with giant and elves, giving you 9 character cards. That means 9 bank tabs, and if you wanted to do the work, 9 pegasus from sagas, allowing you to effectively pet spam most things.
Speaking of inventory space, a free bag for new players.
Mabi is a game about stats, as long as a newer player builds stats well in that first 1k levels, they will have no problem. Not to mention atleast in alexina all the 10k+ who are willing to help just about anyone.
2)At level 20k-40k you have there is no longer a reason to level
At 200 level per 52 weeks in a year thats 10,400 levels if you level during ap events you're getting x2 ap making it easier.
3)Those quests dont exist anymore and its far easier now.
"Those that are lucky enough to have rich parents willing to sink real life money into the game, instantly find themselves in a place of power ahead of players that cannot afford that luxury."
By "a place of power", what do you mean?
"It is also almost impossible to play the games without a pet for transportation."
I feel like this sort of thing varies from case to case. Back when I first started playing as a young, impressionable child (which I'm assuming you're referring to as the target audience since you mentioned rich parents), I didn't have a pet and had to walk on foot as a (slow) human... and I honestly had a lot of fun with that. I was able to take in the different sights as I traveled from place to place. I remember being excited the first time I traveled through Osna Sail. It was the first time I was moving alongside a cliff in a 3D game.
With that said, I do understand that this is probably a far fetched/utopian point of view. However... if a newer player is mostly concerned about getting from x to y all the time instead of actually getting a feel for the game's settings and features, then I imagine this game might not be a good fit for them in the first place. They should not have to feel like they are pressured when traveling from one place to another. If time is the problem, there's no actual rush. They can put things aside in this game and pick them up later for the most part. Only certain events and daily Shadow Missions are timed (as far as I know), but neither are necessary to partake in, especially as a new player just learning to adapt.
Walking/running is pretty slow, though. I'm at least glad they hand new players the free horse and eagle and I think that's a good starting point as far as pets go; a basic flying pet and a basic running pet. Moongates and Mana Tunnels are also a thing--you receive a book you can use (as long as your total level is under 1000 on a fresh account) with almost every one of those listed which is pretty convenient.
Now, I don't think they explain how Moon Gates, Mana Tunnel, and the Moonlight Traveler Book can be used and if that is the case, the game really could emphasis on that. But other than that, I honestly feel like transporting from one place to another is fairly easy with all of these options already available now to fresh starting newbies unless we are speaking of Commerce (in which you have to earn better transportation methods). Is there something I am missing about transportation that makes it difficult?
"Why even play this game if I can't ever obtain the cool items they have? Why bother?"
You can still bother to play because not all players will care to have "cool items"/carry materialistic values.
"No matter how hard that new player tries to catch up, since that old player can just keep on leveling with him or her, they will always be ahead. It is impossible to catch up with the high ranking players in the game. Once a newbie, always a newbie. This makes the game feel infuriating and pointless. Why bother trying to be an epic player in the game if you'll just eternally far behind the other players."
Err.. What is an "epic player"? Either way, it's not a good idea for a new player to constantly size themself up with older/more experienced players, nor should they feel like its necessary to catch up with them in order to enjoy the game. If they do that, they are going to have a bad experience overall because that mentality is unhealthy and unrealistic. We all move at our own paces, after all. Mabinogi is not solely about leveling and power anyway. There are other aspects to the game that a new player might enjoy.
"The goal of a game should be to become an elite or high ranking player. To reach the full potential of the character. Once a person reaches that full potential, they are objectively, a high ranking player, and can feel a cool sort of belonging with the other high ranking players."
Eh. I personally believe a player should set their own goals for their experience in the game given it's sandbox-like nature as opposed to simply becoming elite and high ranking. What you stated in the second sentence sounds like it would encourage more elitism (not that elitism doesn't exist already), but perhaps I am missing something.
"There has to be a limit. A level cap."
I don't really have an opinion on this, but... Leveling is the main source of obtaining AP (as the AP given out during events or certain quests isn't meant to be solely relied on). If there was a level cap, it would affect how much total AP one can obtain over time. That, in turn, would lead to players having to carefully plan how they will use AP in the long-term. In a game where it is possible to achieve the max rank for just about every skill over time and if one wishes to, something like this wouldn't be ideal, especially if we consider that there will be more skills to rank in the future. I suppose an AP rework would be needed to aid the situation if a level cap is necessary, but I wouldn't know where to start with making suggestions for that.
"A player should look forward to every aspect of a game, including it's story or quests."
Ideally, but then there's a reality we have to consider. There are some people who don't particularly pick up this game because they look forward to being involved in the story (and this counts for many MMOs).
"Nexon needs to trim down the number of quests in the game. Total. especially the unnecessary ones that have no obvious benefits, such as training quests."
Wait, isn't it devCat that handles this? I do agree that there is much exposition in the tutorial quests, though. I think it's simply because I have been playing for some time and already understand how the mechanics work. It would be appreciated if an option for such quests to be skipped (even if only for experienced players) was offered, and the tutorials in general could also be trimmed somewhat.
There were probably more I wanted to poke at, but I lost my train of thought. I might pick this up again at another point in time.
Yep, and of course I thought of that AFTER I hit submit. :P
Ooooo, do tell how, and how long it takes! Or is it either:
- just grind for the better part of a day (if there's prep work that counts as time too), or
- buy low sell high
I'd heard there was some Saga mission that paid out well but that it got nerfed somehow.
For that, Nexon needs to stop handing out late-story mainstream quests to newbies IMO.
Agreed. I started G19 way earlier than I should have been allowed to, and I couldn't handle the content at all when I was new.
- paying real money is unfair: I disagree. I think it's smarter to work 1 hour at a job to directly buy an ice dragon than it is to have to worry about an attendance event for 3 weeks.
- Mabi economy is broken: Yeah, I agree. I think good fixes include a) More freedom to move worth/value between players and more tools to accomplish that. Auction house is a great start. b) Less hard-coded values and more market-defined values. 3) Active anti-inflation measures like nothing dropping gold anymore and instead giving items of worth or providing services.
- Repair fees are too high: I don't like the high repair fees either. I always keep in mind that powerful gear costs more to buy and maintain. There are usually cheaper alternatives to everything, so don't live beyond your means.
- Can't do anything without a mount: Totally agree here. I remember that when my newbie horse ran out of summon time, I felt I couldn't do anything else anymore for that day. I wasn't about to walk through a dungeon or go around completing quests on foot. Things got a little better when I finally got the newbie broom. It was around this time I learned to juggle mounts by summoning one when travelling, desummoning immediately when I get to my destination, then summon the other mount when I start travelling again. No more wasting summon time by having my mount out when talking to npcs, shopping, or banking. The fix for this? I dunno, somehow add faster movement speed when in noncombat or let us clamber over obstacles.
Limit character power and wealth to bring forced equity, make it "everyone's game": lol no thanks, comrade.
Quests are a pain: I totally agree with everything in this section. There are too many unnecessary quests and too many unnecessary steps in those quests. Most tasks use the quest framework to keep track of progress, like squire missions, shadow missions, exploration board tasks, fomor scroll collection, cooking ingredient shortcuts, and others. I'm torn between liking the elegance of everything using the same system and not liking it because certain things just don't work too well as quests. I do not agree with limiting the number of quests a player can have at once.
In general grinding holy water, with a life skill talent will net you good money. Doing daily sagas on all alts will also net a good amount of money. (Basic char slots = 7, + 2 assistant characters from siding with giants/elfs. = 270k a day.) nearly 2 mill a week just by going on and doing saga ep 7 with all your characters and opening boxes on daily days.
Just playing the game can net you good money, in terms of materials such as leather. (Fine leather please.)
Just a couple suggestions for New players atleast on alexina.
To save money: on your alts create a character and choose the talents you'd be using to claim a "Beginners" version of one of their weapons. use this for you training/ general easy mission running as the repairs cost 1 gold each and you can upgrade it.
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Mabi will somewhat always feel unwelcoming to new players due to the complex nature of the game when someone first looks at it. Most players are coming from modern/extremely casual games where everything is spoonfed to them. Mabi is somewhat more interactive, and harsh. (but not difficult when you get the hang of things)
and we technically do have a 'soft' level cap. It would be the amount of total levels it takes you to rank 1/ dan 3 every possible skill, then 200 current on the rebirth that you can do that at. All other levels above this is simply a epeen level, as besides potential levels, your gains will be somewhat little.
*Edit*
In the end I don't think you can do much more. They even made the Gs exponentially shorter and easier. Mabi is a extremely open game where they rarely force you to do anything. It's up to the user how they play that. The only thing I personally thing mabi needs is more extremely end-game stuff. For people who have completed every skill and just need some kind of challenge that's not just some cheap boring dungeon.
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Just saying when I started mabi there was not many hand outs, and we could only be humans. I remember the Iria expansion when it came out, and I spent god knows how long walking on foot through all the continent! Players now have it so much easier, and can make so much money (this is why everything is also inflated, as well.)
Not to mention daily rebirths till a thousand. By a thousand you've probably come close to mastering a talent, or are pretty darn powerful. There is no problem with catching up with a decent amount of the population, atleast on Alexina. (If you're on one of the other servers then its expected that a lot more players are higher leveled.)
In a game where stats are the thing that matters , level kind of takes a back seat.
And there is a limit to how much stats skills give. It isn't as though you can go beyond Dan ranks. This is why reforges and good gear are in such demand; once you reach the skill cap and stat cap, only gear can get you beyond that and get you more of an edge.
Just do SMs...
600k an hour or 2.4mil for 4 hours
Holy Cow! You can sustain 10k gold/minute indefinitely doing SM's! Is that without shadow crystals? Because you have to buy shadow crystals with real money. Or if you buy them from other players then its limited by the supply of them on hand.
BFT2 HM can be done solo and without crystals to earn more than that even after repair costs. Shadow wiz works too (even without crystals) but that requires a party so you kinda have to wait for other people to want to do it, and hope they're all quick enough. It's tedious as hell though and not a very good solution to the game's economic problems.
Someone deleted all our waiting for replies posts lol
https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Leopard
That's a field boss isn't it? How often does it appear, and how many show up when it does?
Lmao. This thread turned into war of walltexts. You guys should have kept ignoring this thread.