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Guild Wars Exploit

Comments

  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 21,860
    Posts: 5,087
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    Helsa wrote: »
    At the end of the day, perhaps because of the original post in this thread, alone or not, it is now known that this can be done. Regardless of whether vetting can mitigate it or not is irrelevant, since limiting the action to the guild leader alone will absolutely address the issue, except in those circumstances where the guild leader is deliberately working against their own guild, which I see as a very rare event indeed. If the guild leader is not present to enter the guild into the contest, then any such guild that can't get their guild leader to show up for an important guild event such as this does not deserve entry into the contest in the first place.

    "... something needs to be done in the meantime, should Nexon actually decide to do what they suggest should be done." - Sophie

    Excellent we're in agreement!
  • Momma_SophieMomma_Sophie
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,575
    Posts: 290
    Member
    edited November 22, 2018
    Helsa wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    At the end of the day, perhaps because of the original post in this thread, alone or not, it is now known that this can be done. Regardless of whether vetting can mitigate it or not is irrelevant, since limiting the action to the guild leader alone will absolutely address the issue, except in those circumstances where the guild leader is deliberately working against their own guild, which I see as a very rare event indeed. If the guild leader is not present to enter the guild into the contest, then any such guild that can't get their guild leader to show up for an important guild event such as this does not deserve entry into the contest in the first place.

    "... something needs to be done in the meantime, should Nexon actually decide to do what they suggest should be done." - Sophie

    Excellent we're in agreement!

    If you think that meant I agreed with you, I think I know why you have difficulty understanding perspectives other than your own, now.
    Do you honestly think a saboteur is going to wait around for permission or even just for the Leader to show up when they can just snipe the party, initiate the contest entry, and disrupt the whole attempt?
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,760
    Posts: 950
    Member
    edited November 22, 2018
    Helsa wrote: »
    At the end of the day, perhaps because of the original post in this thread, alone or not, it is now known that this can be done. Regardless of whether vetting can mitigate it or not is irrelevant, since limiting the action to the guild leader alone will absolutely address the issue, except in those circumstances where the guild leader is deliberately working against their own guild, which I see as a very rare event indeed. If the guild leader is not present to enter the guild into the contest, then any such guild that can't get their guild leader to show up for an important guild event such as this does not deserve entry into the contest in the first place.

    Yet, regardless of whether or not something needs to be done, Bern has made this issue even worse by making it public knowledge.

    EDIT: C'mon, Nexon, stop leaving posts that I've quoted in the message box; otherwise, they get mixed in with any new posts.
  • courtneyycourtneyy
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,235
    Posts: 100
    Member
    edited November 22, 2018
    After reading through all of these posts, I just have one thing to point out even if it doesn't directly relate to the OP.

    I wouldn't care at all about guild battle if there wasn't a guild shop that had OP caters, baltane mission boxes, and a few other handy things that you can't obtain otherwise. I try to avoid getting involved in drama (that's all guild battle has ever caused from past history between guilds and people), but when you have to choose a guild, you feel obligated to support the guild you join. That way you don't feel like just a bum leecher to everyone in the guild.

    Worst part that I've always hated about guilds: You can't just switch guilds or join just any guild (for guild battle) because typically they have some sort of hierarchy that are biased to who they accept. EVEN if you're a high level/knowledgeable long standing Mabi player who is willing to support the cause or become involved. If one person in a guild hates you, then chances are you're never going to be accepted.

    With that said, if anything were to come of this, I just have one request of Nexon that they give EVERYONE access to the items in the guild shop. Even if it's just once a week or something, that way, if I want to stay guildless or not participate in a guild battle that is obviously unfair then I don't have to. Please.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 21,860
    Posts: 5,087
    Member
    If you think that meant I agreed with you, I think I know why you have difficulty understanding perspectives other than your own, now.
    Do you honestly think a saboteur is going to wait around for permission or even just for the Leader to show up when they can just snipe the party, initiate the contest entry, and disrupt the whole attempt?

    Anything said beyond Nexon implementing a fix is a tangent and I see no point to discussing it. . . . Oh darn THIS is a tangent! Well played!
  • Momma_SophieMomma_Sophie
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,575
    Posts: 290
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    If you think that meant I agreed with you, I think I know why you have difficulty understanding perspectives other than your own, now.
    Do you honestly think a saboteur is going to wait around for permission or even just for the Leader to show up when they can just snipe the party, initiate the contest entry, and disrupt the whole attempt?

    Anything said beyond Nexon implementing a fix is a tangent and I see no point to discussing it. . . . Oh darn THIS is a tangent! Well played!

    Ah, I see what is happening and what you are doing.
    My responses to you end here with this. My time can be spent better on Thanksgiving day.

    Good luck to you as well.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 21,860
    Posts: 5,087
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    If you think that meant I agreed with you, I think I know why you have difficulty understanding perspectives other than your own, now.
    Do you honestly think a saboteur is going to wait around for permission or even just for the Leader to show up when they can just snipe the party, initiate the contest entry, and disrupt the whole attempt?

    Anything said beyond Nexon implementing a fix is a tangent and I see no point to discussing it. . . . Oh darn THIS is a tangent! Well played!

    Ah, I see what is happening and what you are doing.
    My responses to you end here with this. My time can be spent better on Thanksgiving day.

    Good luck to you as well.

    Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier but I thought I had said that the talk about vetting was irrelevant. All that mattered to me was Nexon fixing what is an actual problem. I'm glad that's settled. You have a Happy Thanksgiving as well.
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    courtneyy wrote: »
    After reading through all of these posts, I just have one thing to point out even if it doesn't directly relate to the OP.

    I wouldn't care at all about guild battle if there wasn't a guild shop that had OP caters, baltane mission boxes, and a few other handy things that you can't obtain otherwise. I try to avoid getting involved in drama (that's all guild battle has ever caused from past history between guilds and people), but when you have to choose a guild, you feel obligated to support the guild you join. That way you don't feel like just a bum leecher to everyone in the guild.

    Worst part that I've always hated about guilds: You can't just switch guilds or join just any guild (for guild battle) because typically they have some sort of hierarchy that are biased to who they accept. EVEN if you're a high level/knowledgeable long standing Mabi player who is willing to support the cause or become involved. If one person in a guild hates you, then chances are you're never going to be accepted.

    With that said, if anything were to come of this, I just have one request of Nexon that they give EVERYONE access to the items in the guild shop. Even if it's just once a week or something, that way, if I want to stay guildless or not participate in a guild battle that is obviously unfair then I don't have to. Please.

    >I don't wanna participate in the games content so I think everyone should get the reward regardless

    I'm sorry but that's what I see this as. The benefits are a QoL thing and aren't anything broken. A free dungeon pass is the only thing there that isn't just a time save, it saves gold making AdvHM passes. Guilds gotta be careful who they accept before this anyway to make sure the members are happy and to avoid internal conflict. The reason some guilds are being picky about who they accept is everyone and their mother applies to the guilds that have the towns
    Vivian
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 51,765
    Posts: 6,975
    Member
    The funniest part is the fact that KR somehow doesn't have such issue. I guess our community is too toxic for this?
  • courtneyycourtneyy
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,235
    Posts: 100
    Member
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    courtneyy wrote: »
    After reading through all of these posts, I just have one thing to point out even if it doesn't directly relate to the OP.

    I wouldn't care at all about guild battle if there wasn't a guild shop that had OP caters, baltane mission boxes, and a few other handy things that you can't obtain otherwise. I try to avoid getting involved in drama (that's all guild battle has ever caused from past history between guilds and people), but when you have to choose a guild, you feel obligated to support the guild you join. That way you don't feel like just a bum leecher to everyone in the guild.

    Worst part that I've always hated about guilds: You can't just switch guilds or join just any guild (for guild battle) because typically they have some sort of hierarchy that are biased to who they accept. EVEN if you're a high level/knowledgeable long standing Mabi player who is willing to support the cause or become involved. If one person in a guild hates you, then chances are you're never going to be accepted.

    With that said, if anything were to come of this, I just have one request of Nexon that they give EVERYONE access to the items in the guild shop. Even if it's just once a week or something, that way, if I want to stay guildless or not participate in a guild battle that is obviously unfair then I don't have to. Please.

    >I don't wanna participate in the games content so I think everyone should get the reward regardless

    I'm sorry but that's what I see this as. The benefits are a QoL thing and aren't anything broken. A free dungeon pass is the only thing there that isn't just a time save, it saves gold making AdvHM passes. Guilds gotta be careful who they accept before this anyway to make sure the members are happy and to avoid internal conflict. The reason some guilds are being picky about who they accept is everyone and their mother applies to the guilds that have the towns

    My reason as to why I don't want to participate seems pretty obvious, but in case you didn't see it: The guild battle is unfair and biased. Not just because of the mechanics of it, but also because it limits who CAN participate. I have been participating, whole-heartedly, but when the opposing guild wins battle after battle, I start to not want to participate because well, what's the point?

    As for a QoL thing, sure, I can understand that. I can obtain caters on my own that are similar I suppose, I can grind basic baltane missions all day long (wasting my time) for one elite, I can make my own hardmode passes, but it's unfair that the same group or guild has access to these QoL benefits from the shop EVERY week.
  • CraftycrabsCraftycrabs
    Mabinogi Rep: 220
    Posts: 4
    Member
    courtneyy wrote: »
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    courtneyy wrote: »
    After reading through all of these posts, I just have one thing to point out even if it doesn't directly relate to the OP.

    I wouldn't care at all about guild battle if there wasn't a guild shop that had OP caters, baltane mission boxes, and a few other handy things that you can't obtain otherwise. I try to avoid getting involved in drama (that's all guild battle has ever caused from past history between guilds and people), but when you have to choose a guild, you feel obligated to support the guild you join. That way you don't feel like just a bum leecher to everyone in the guild.

    Worst part that I've always hated about guilds: You can't just switch guilds or join just any guild (for guild battle) because typically they have some sort of hierarchy that are biased to who they accept. EVEN if you're a high level/knowledgeable long standing Mabi player who is willing to support the cause or become involved. If one person in a guild hates you, then chances are you're never going to be accepted.

    With that said, if anything were to come of this, I just have one request of Nexon that they give EVERYONE access to the items in the guild shop. Even if it's just once a week or something, that way, if I want to stay guildless or not participate in a guild battle that is obviously unfair then I don't have to. Please.

    >I don't wanna participate in the games content so I think everyone should get the reward regardless

    I'm sorry but that's what I see this as. The benefits are a QoL thing and aren't anything broken. A free dungeon pass is the only thing there that isn't just a time save, it saves gold making AdvHM passes. Guilds gotta be careful who they accept before this anyway to make sure the members are happy and to avoid internal conflict. The reason some guilds are being picky about who they accept is everyone and their mother applies to the guilds that have the towns

    My reason as to why I don't want to participate seems pretty obvious, but in case you didn't see it: The guild battle is unfair and biased. Not just because of the mechanics of it, but also because it limits who CAN participate. I have been participating, whole-heartedly, but when the opposing guild wins battle after battle, I start to not want to participate because well, what's the point?

    As for a QoL thing, sure, I can understand that. I can obtain caters on my own that are similar I suppose, I can grind basic baltane missions all day long (wasting my time) for one elite, I can make my own hardmode passes, but it's unfair that the same group or guild has access to these QoL benefits from the shop EVERY week.

    My initial thought when reading that was that it should be rewarding the winning guild and you shouldn't be rewarded so much for losing, but most of tarlach seems to know how tir has been going.... It isn't fair to anyone, even the stronger guilds, unless someone else also starts to get another guild to help so it isn't just 40vs20
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,760
    Posts: 950
    Member
    Greta wrote: »
    The funniest part is the fact that KR somehow doesn't have such issue. I guess our community is too toxic for this?

    That would explain why we didn't get that PictoChat-like thing they have, as well.
  • CyCyCyCy
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,240
    Posts: 63
    Member
    How about... we ask Nexon to open more towns for other guilds to war on. We could use more guild guardians! With abundance do you think we'll all be happy?

    Maybe we don't know what we want! Maybe by refusing to be in a guild or in a guild that participates in GW you're missing out on the intended design of the game to be competitive and fun! What if what we have is a fair amount of competition to make things exciting. Maybe compared to overseas server, we're having so much more interesting stuff happening in our community! We should be thankful! =P

    Yay for less AFKonogi activities!

  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    Greta wrote: »
    The funniest part is the fact that KR somehow doesn't have such issue. I guess our community is too toxic for this?

    I think it has to do with the fact that our communities are small enough that such a tactic is viable. KR's massive population means that there would be far too much competition to plant saboteurs into every participating guild or that the competition is fierce enough that such a thing is meaningless to begin with. Also you need to remember that Mabi is a PG13 game so a war between players amounts to little more than a particularly intense game of tag, in universe anyways. Of course it could just be that we're terrible people and that we're exposing our evil again. Oh well.
    courtneyy
  • CyCyCyCy
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,240
    Posts: 63
    Member
    edited November 22, 2018
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    The funniest part is the fact that KR somehow doesn't have such issue. I guess our community is too toxic for this?

    I think it has to do with the fact that our communities are small enough that such a tactic is viable. KR's massive population means that there would be far too much competition to plant saboteurs into every participating guild or that the competition is fierce enough that such a thing is meaningless to begin with. Also you need to remember that Mabi is a PG13 game so a war between players amounts to little more than a particularly intense game of tag, in universe anyways. Of course it could just be that we're terrible people and that we're exposing our evil again. Oh well.

    Maybe KR doesn't have it because players have been more mature than us or they prevented it like we did! Technically it hasn't happened to us yet either. It's just in the talks as a possibility. Perhaps our minds have been more devious than the Korean community for thinking about this exploit! It's NOT a first that NA players discover exploits and glitches that the KR community didn't find right?
  • aaaaaaawaaasdsdewaaaaaaawaaasdsdew
    Mabinogi Rep: 300
    Posts: 7
    Member
    A whole lotta salt here that one small group of players can't manage to control an entire server despite repeated extortion, bribery, and exploit abuse.
  • AquasolAquasol
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,255
    Posts: 441
    Member, Volunteer Forum Moderator
    Closed, pending further review.
    VeylaineTotokeCrimsọnAlshian
  • But_whyBut_why
    Mabinogi Rep: 410
    Post: 1
    Member
    i see two problems with this post.

    Firstly, is that this post appears to be less of a bug report than it is an attack on this other party. Why do I say this? Well, you decided to post that in public about an 'enemy guild'. From what I know, Tarlach is a fairly small server. From your description, I'm sure most people from would assume one or two guilds at least. I question your gain from that. You may not care or think it's not a big deal at all, but when you make a public accusation masked as a report in a public environment with the other party not here to defend themselves, I see this unfair. Why do I bring this up? This is not the place to be reporting people. The actual accusation could be true or false, but this not the way to handle it. What's my solution, stay calm and read on please.

    Secondly, you mention just how damaging this could be. Why would you decide to make a post about it? As well as post a step by step tutorial on how exactly to do just that? Discussions on glitches and exploits aren't allowed here as outlined by the forum rules. Petitions like what you're also trying to do is not allowed. (You should really read the rules before making posts)Mabinogi Forums Code of Conduc"

    As for my personal opinions on the matter is, many people bring up good points on how you've been running your guild to cause you to reach this situation. I just have to agree with the previous posters even more now, because if you haven't been vetting your applicants seriously before, now you'll actually have to. You said yourself that not many people even knew about this exploit, now they will, for better or worse. This is a pretty good reason why you don't do that here. Hopefully, this isn't something that spreads as a result of this post.

    What would have been the proper approach? Submit a ticket. Even Ms. Katherz said the exact same thing. It it's true, get that person out of here. If it was instead false, no one gets their name dragged through the mud. Improvements are always welcomed, a petition is not. Preferably, those would be two separate tickets, as they are two separate issues.
    kapapa
This discussion has been closed.