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Mabinogi 2, the game that was almost liked.

Comments

  • KaibaAkayukiKaibaAkayuki
    Mabinogi Rep: 995
    Posts: 53
    Member
    ROI and Mabi are drastically different games. I play them both

  • SqueeSquee
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,550
    Posts: 194
    Member
    Shijiku wrote: »
    The best way I could see them shifting Mabinogis player base to a second mabinogi is this:

    Either do a ground up rehaul of mabinogi 1. The full thing. Update all textures. Essentially remake it, preferabley in a better engine. This would be the best thing for mabinogi, because

    1. You would have the opportunity to remake and recode alot of infrastructure that is SEVERELY outdated, or in bad need of changes.

    2. Youre keeping the current playerbase happy. (You know, the players who have thrown away 10+ years of their life to follow this game to its death.)

    3. You can make the game feel fresh, and updated without having to give up whats made mabinogi great.

    Alternatively, you can create a whole new game. But this will piss off long time mabi 1 players if you shut it down for a new one. So if they explored this route, theyd either have to give mabi 1 players incentives to cross over, (This could range from a huge gold head start based on account value, or my personal favorite, cross over the server databases and let mabi 2 players keep all their mabi 1 gear.) Either way, I dont think the mobile market is where nexon should be going. Thats like creating a donut shop and selling your customers custom house made mayonaise.

    Personally, I think updating Mabi with the Mabi 2 graphics would be a far better way to keep Mabinogi alive. And this game has needed a HUGE look and gameplay update for years. It's one of the reasons I stopped playing this game for a long time. But if they redid Mabi 1 with Mabi 2 graphics and updated the engine like they've needed to do for a long time, then they could give a whole new life to Mabi.
    YangKoeteBronzebreak
  • ServilliusServillius
    Mabinogi Rep: 735
    Posts: 57
    Member
    edited January 11, 2020
    Mabi needs Mabinogi 2, at least as a way of starting over instead of patching stuff up.
    A few ideas:

    1. Clearly defined skillsets.
    If every skill is like: “Gunner involves quick dealing damage, at the downside of having to regulate bullets, except when using way of gun” and “magic skills deal a lot of damage at a distance, but take a long time to cast, except when using snapcast” then Mabinogi will become something like “switch to gun set, use way of gun, switch to magic set, use snap cast with thunder, switch to sword set, use final hit.” Instead of keeping within defined skill set roles.

    2. More skills, more skill customisation.
    More skills and more variety is good, as long as those skills stay within defined skill set roles. I remember when there were six offensive spells. It sucked when you had to switch weapons to use a different magic skill, but it’s also nice to have a few limitations as long as those limitations come with advantages of accepting them. It would be nice if I could choose to have 10x meteor strike charge time in exchange for even more insane damage, or choose to make crisis deal very little damage in exchange for larger range. As skills rank up, you could earn perk points to spend on changing skills. If you accept quirks, you get even more perk points, or you could choose to put the perks into an entirely different skill at the disadvantage of poor exchange rate. Eg: 10 points in flame burst could be 1 or 2 points if used in final hit.

    3. Skills that make sense
    I’m a little biased against gunner, but a skill that gives you unlimited bullets does not make sense. Another one is grapple shot, when you shoot a bullet that magically pulls you toward whoever you shot.

    3. Make every skill useful and worth ranking.
    Current Mabinogi: People rank gold strike for extra luck, but never use it in actual combat. People rank Elven magic missile because every other elf transformation skill is r1. Summon golem is another example of a less useful skill. Other less useful skills are teleportation skills such as grapple shot and anchor rush. Not really usable in combat because it’s often faster to just run where you need to go, and by the time you finish loading the skill, you get attacked.

    4. Reduce the amount of different enhancements possible on weapons, and make it one big system.
    Erg, enchants, spirit weapon, reforged, upgrades, special upgrades and gem upgrades could be simplified.

    5. Make even more things appearance customisable. This includes transformations, puppets, summoned golems, and titles. Maybe even skill appearance? I can’t think of anything else, because Mabinogi has gotten pretty good with this.

    6. Reduce focus on stat boosts, and focus on other ways skills. This is related to more skill customisation. Basically, I get that stats are the main way to increase damage, but this quickly gets boring. It would be interesting if there was more of a focus on how skills could be improved in other ways.

    7. Focus on expanding player roles. At the moment, there is only one real role. And that role is “who can deal the most damage the fastest?” The best healer and support player is the one with the most clouds. People don’t need support players for a few other reasons, too. Techniques, stats, and good equipment can make your character almost invincible. Also, support skills are extremely limited. Healing spells are best used for breaks in between fighting because of how not good they are at supporting fighting players from a distance. Magic shields are best used in rafting/balloon and dragon fights, because otherwise they’re just not that good. Supposed support skills like music buffs don’t take you out of the fight at all or put you in a vulnerable position in exchange for providing insane buffs to party members because it’s more like “play battle overture for two seconds and everyone gets an extra 30% attack.” That’s not a role, because any player can do that. The lack of instrument and healing wand buffs as well as skill mechanics are the main culprits in my opinion. This also applies to life skills. If you want to inspire people to put more energy into crafting, why not give life tools erg and spirit weapon capabilities, or similar buffs in a new simplified system.

    8. Please bring in trust crafting, which works like trust enchanting. Also, add a trade window to offer optional payment in exchange.

    9. Reduce RNG enhancements. Crafting stats, enchants, reforges, erg, special upgrade are all just RNG over RNG. Which especially makes it a disappointment if you have a 3 line r1 all 20 reforged, fully erged, final step weapon, only to get a 62 max damage weapon and have to start the process over again with no way to put the enhancements from one on the other.

    10. More skill levels. I don’t think 15 levels is enough.

    11. Aim to build a balanced game. Give elves a flat bonus (a bonus apart from int and dex) in something other than archery. Maybe give them more range or a 40 magic attack bonus, or something, anything. At the moment the only flat bonus outside archery that elves get is ice spear mana cost, which is arguably the worst flat bonus of the least important offensive magic spell.
    Bronzebreak
  • SqueeSquee
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,550
    Posts: 194
    Member
    Servillius wrote: »
    Mabi needs Mabinogi 2, at least as a way of starting over instead of patching stuff up.
    A few ideas:
    Servillius wrote: »
    1. Clearly defined skillsets.
    If every skill is like: “Gunner involves quick dealing damage, at the downside of having to regulate bullets, except when using way of gun” and “magic skills deal a lot of damage at a distance, but take a long time to cast, except when using snapcast” then Mabinogi will become something like “switch to gun set, use way of gun, switch to magic set, use snap cast with thunder, switch to sword set, use final hit.” Instead of keeping within defined skill set roles.

    I mean, personally I do something akin to that anyway. I cast fireball with snapcast, then use Chain Sweep after the fireball hits them to try and do as much damage as possible. The game sorta allows this, but not on the level you're probably thinking. Honestly, if that happened, then I think the game would become even more lopsided than it already is.
    Servillius wrote: »
    2. More skills, more skill customisation.
    More skills and more variety is good, as long as those skills stay within defined skill set roles. I remember when there were six offensive spells. It sucked when you had to switch weapons to use a different magic skill, but it’s also nice to have a few limitations as long as those limitations come with advantages of accepting them. It would be nice if I could choose to have 10x meteor strike charge time in exchange for even more insane damage, or choose to make crisis deal very little damage in exchange for larger range. As skills rank up, you could earn perk points to spend on changing skills. If you accept quirks, you get even more perk points, or you could choose to put the perks into an entirely different skill at the disadvantage of poor exchange rate. Eg: 10 points in flame burst could be 1 or 2 points if used in final hit.

    I agree with this. Especially in later generations where they expect you to do ridiculous damage and you just don't have it unless you reforge with some extreme stuff and have the most impressive stuff in the game. It would be nice to be able to do that with intermediate and advanced magic since it's designed so that you have to charge it before using it, and I think rank 1 intermediate spells should be capable of 10 charges instead of 5. I mean, at my level I should be able to solo every Elite Shadow mission in the game, but I can't (I'm like 13K total level and mastered like 75% of the talents in the game).
    Servillius wrote: »
    3. Skills that make sense
    I’m a little biased against gunner, but a skill that gives you unlimited bullets does not make sense. Another one is grapple shot, when you shoot a bullet that magically pulls you toward whoever you shot.

    Eh... Gunner's always been a bit weird. I mean, we're talking about a society that uses magic, alchemy and now guns. It's not that big of a deal. Plus, Way of the Gun balances out by the skill ending with you being completely empty and having to reload.
    Servillius wrote: »
    3. Make every skill useful and worth ranking.
    Current Mabinogi: People rank gold strike for extra luck, but never use it in actual combat. People rank Elven magic missile because every other elf transformation skill is r1. Summon golem is another example of a less useful skill. Other less useful skills are teleportation skills such as grapple shot and anchor rush. Not really usable in combat because it’s often faster to just run where you need to go, and by the time you finish loading the skill, you get attacked.

    100% Agree with this. Hell, 90% of the life skills people level just so they can get stats from it... I mean... What use is Wine Making beyond stats you get from leveling it up? Seriously... Who uses this skill regularly? There are a lot of skills that no one is ever going to use. I've gotten to the point that all the skills I want/use I have rank 1 in, and now it's just ranking other skills for stats, and that's really it because most of the skills are useless.
    Servillius wrote: »
    4. Reduce the amount of different enhancements possible on weapons, and make it one big system.
    Erg, enchants, spirit weapon, reforged, upgrades, special upgrades and gem upgrades could be simplified.

    Eh... I like it as is except that I wish reforges weren't pay to win, and Erg and Special Upgrades didn't require RNG to even succeed (Which annoys me to no end because I've always had bad luck.)
    Servillius wrote: »
    5. Make even more things appearance customisable. This includes transformations, puppets, summoned golems, and titles. Maybe even skill appearance? I can’t think of anything else, because Mabinogi has gotten pretty good with this.

    Well, Nascent Divinity is customizable if you go hunting for the stuff to customize it. The golems are limited because you can only have so many different kinds of them. Titles, we already have two different kinds of titles we can mix and match, so that's not a big deal. Apparently advancement tests can also change certain skills like I've seen some people who use black thunder instead of normal colored thunder after doing advancement (at least from what I've been told).
    Servillius wrote: »
    6. Reduce focus on stat boosts, and focus on other ways skills. This is related to more skill customisation. Basically, I get that stats are the main way to increase damage, but this quickly gets boring. It would be interesting if there was more of a focus on how skills could be improved in other ways.

    100% agree on this too. Especially in later generations where the game expects you to do like 30K damage and you don't have it unless you have leveled up every skill in the game, have good reforges, and have impossible stats that most people can't reach without either pay to win reforges, or not having equipment leveled up enough because Special upgrades and Erg require RNG and require SUPER rare items to even attempt.
    Servillius wrote: »
    7. Focus on expanding player roles. At the moment, there is only one real role. And that role is “who can deal the most damage the fastest?” The best healer and support player is the one with the most clouds. People don’t need support players for a few other reasons, too. Techniques, stats, and good equipment can make your character almost invincible. Also, support skills are extremely limited. Healing spells are best used for breaks in between fighting because of how not good they are at supporting fighting players from a distance. Magic shields are best used in rafting/balloon and dragon fights, because otherwise they’re just not that good. Supposed support skills like music buffs don’t take you out of the fight at all or put you in a vulnerable position in exchange for providing insane buffs to party members because it’s more like “play battle overture for two seconds and everyone gets an extra 30% attack.” That’s not a role, because any player can do that. The lack of instrument and healing wand buffs as well as skill mechanics are the main culprits in my opinion. This also applies to life skills. If you want to inspire people to put more energy into crafting, why not give life tools erg and spirit weapon capabilities, or similar buffs in a new simplified system.

    Again 100% agreed. Different roles should be more focused. Back in my time, we ran Peaca and we needed at least one magic, one archer and one close combat because the monsters all had resistances and every enemy in the dungeon required a specific type. These days, it's possible for a decent player to solo the dungeon alone because it's become too easy to mix and match what skills you want in other skillsets. I remember back in the early days of Mabi when it was rare for characters to have skills outside of their specific skillset because they had to focus on one role... That eventually went out the window at some point. It would be nice if there were specific skills for specific roles, such as healers being able to hyper charge 5 charges of party heal or something, or being able to use zone of renewal even if the party isn't in range, or using vital surge on the whole party instead of that one person. We could even have special grandmaster perks for specific types of roles that would support that, like grandmaster black magician (magician and chain blade) would be able to chain cast bolt magic with their chain weapons as a bonus. There are a lot of extra talent titles that really don't do anything that they could add special perks to when equipped to allow people specific roles.
    Servillius wrote: »
    8. Please bring in trust crafting, which works like trust enchanting. Also, add a trade window to offer optional payment in exchange.

    I kinda agree. I don't rely on anyone else to craft for me and most people just sell the final product. But I do think that would be nice for when you say, need a rank one engineer to engineer a dragon armor or weapon without having to hand your expensive items over to them. It would allow a better system, and maybe there could be some bonuses for people who have that high enough level that they are asked to craft, such as you possibly getting something from the transaction like say you make a dragon armor for someone and you randomly get one of the pieces used back to keep for yourself or something. There should be a reward for being made to make stuff for others beyond just them possibly paying you.
    Servillius wrote: »
    9. Reduce RNG enhancements. Crafting stats, enchants, reforges, erg, special upgrade are all just RNG over RNG. Which especially makes it a disappointment if you have a 3 line r1 all 20 reforged, fully erged, final step weapon, only to get a 62 max damage weapon and have to start the process over again with no way to put the enhancements from one on the other.

    I'll be honest... RNG needs to be removed completely from this game. It's just too broken. I once failed a special upgrade going up to level one where the success rate is 100% (And no, this wasn't going from level 1 to level 2 where the success rate is like 45%, this was going from level 0 (the gem upgrade) to level 1 where the success rate is 100%). Reforges also need to be redone entirely. I actually made a post a while back in the suggestions on a new system that could be used similar to the potential stat system (the one where you get so many levels and get rewards as you get higher total levels) where you can pick the upgrades and use proficiency to level up reforges instead of pay to win reforges (but left pay to win options for those with money so Nexon could still profit from it). Special upgrades and Erg upgrades shouldn't even BE RNG. There should be a 100% all the time especially since Special Upgrades and Erg upgrades use very rare materials that you can't get easily and you can easily. And at higher level, your item could even be destroyed, which is complete crap. There's a difference between luck and skill in this game, and this game mostly requires luck over skill, and pay to win reforging. The life skills aren't the worst at RNG, but I have had horrible luck with it. But some don't make sense, like failing to bottle water... How do you fail at that?!
    Servillius wrote: »
    10. More skill levels. I don’t think 15 levels is enough.

    Normally it is... But that's because a lot of skills are unbalanced these days. A lot of the newer skills are just better than the old skills, and the old skills aren't rebalanced to keep up. For example, I've seen people do ridiculous damage with lightning rod, and make my thunder and fireball look pathetic despite the fact I should be doing more damage, but that doesn't mean my skills are weak, it just means they do more damage than me. There's a lot of skills that really need rebalancing at this point.
    Servillius wrote: »
    11. Aim to build a balanced game. Give elves a flat bonus (a bonus apart from int and dex) in something other than archery. Maybe give them more range or a 40 magic attack bonus, or something, anything. At the moment the only flat bonus outside archery that elves get is ice spear mana cost, which is arguably the worst flat bonus of the least important offensive magic spell.

    100% agreed again. This game has been unbalanced for a long time. It's not just the elves and races. Mabi just kept adding skillsets and new things without thinking about how it affects the game in general. For example, after shadow missions were introduced, people started running dungeons less, and now these days, people only ever run dungeons when needed for a quest or they're doing dailies. It was the same with skillsets. They kept adding them and not fixing the old skillsets so that the skillsets are all balanced properly. For example, it used to be that close combat, archery and magic were balanced and had different advantages and disadvantages over each other. But over time the new skillsets just made everything lopsided and even updating entire skillsets hasn't fixed it. The entire skillset system needs to be redone. Every skillset needs to be redesigned and updated. For example, these days most enemies are resistant to magic, so using magic is next to useless in a lot of situations. Usually, the best skillset is chain slash because it not only adds luck, but it's just easier to use.
    Bronzebreak
  • HigaHiga
    Mabinogi Rep: 680
    Posts: 21
    Member
    I recall Mabinogi 2 being like a diablo like game, vastly different than vindictus. Also just outright, vindictus was out already before mabinogi 2 was being thrown around as a game idea.
  • HazurahHazurah
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,360
    Posts: 443
    Member
    If Nexon really insists on Mobile games for bigger market

    they could just make Mabinogi 2 playable on both PC and Mobile like recently Honkai Impact 3
    YangKoete
  • DragoolfireDragoolfire
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,350
    Posts: 479
    Member
    Don't need a mabi 2, just need to do some heavy work on mabi 1... to be able to go mobile and still work as is on pc
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,305
    Posts: 7,841
    Member
    Hazurah wrote: »
    If Nexon really insists on Mobile games for bigger market

    they could just make Mabinogi 2 playable on both PC and Mobile like recently Honkai Impact 3

    The mobile game market is where they can make quick fast money to fund operations while they try to develop their next prized PC title, which we have seen quite a number of cancellations.
    Bronzebreak
  • ServilliusServillius
    Mabinogi Rep: 735
    Posts: 57
    Member
    I think we do need Mabi 2. Sometimes it's best to just scrap everything and start over when you have too much mess. However, I don't think it'll happen any time soon. They're doing pretty good with mabi events and gacha. As soon as they announce Mabi 2, everything in Mabi 1 is gonna lose a lot of value.
    Bronzebreak
  • DragoolfireDragoolfire
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,350
    Posts: 479
    Member
    No mabi 2, i worked too hard to get were i am... if mabi ever goes away i will NEVER start another game
    Bronzebreak
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,305
    Posts: 7,841
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    No mabi 2, i worked too hard to get were i am... if mabi ever goes away i will NEVER start another game

    Unless they are able to transfer stuff from Mabi 1 over.
    DragoolfireBronzebreak
  • YuenSanYuenSan
    Mabinogi Rep: 750
    Posts: 23
    Member
    I prefer Mabinogi revamping their engine and graphics like how Blade and Soul redid their game on a new engine. Especially with everyone's progress year's into it. Mabinogi is currently in the "Everquest" state. Only with not as decent content updates.
    YangKoete
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 62,255
    Posts: 8,129
    Member
    No mabi 2, i worked too hard to get were i am... if mabi ever goes away i will NEVER start another game

    Unless they are able to transfer stuff from Mabi 1 over.

    It would not be compatible.
    Helsa
  • YangKoeteYangKoete
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,155
    Posts: 266
    Member
    Just revamping the engine even partially would be good to run better and look better.

    Make fewer things just a bunch of decals.

    Revamp old hairstyles and equipment.

    Revamp some monsters and general textures.

    etc.
  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,605
    Posts: 476
    Member
    edited July 13, 2020
    I do think they'd be better off reworking M1 than to make an M2, and obviously most people who've invested years into Mabi are going to likely feel the same way. I think however that it'll be difficult without changing the design to not rely on irrelevancy; without content being continually updated and improved, it falls to the wayside as a tidal wave of new stuff to do comes in every year. Right now though, a lot of what occurs (especially things like events and gachas) seem to basically just be one-offs of slightly more powerful/different aesthetic stuff, which is repeated ad infintum and grows the list of 'content' without adding much value.

    Don't get me wrong, it's nice to always have something to do, but there's a difference between that and having too much to do, which is kind of how I feel Mabi is atm; I suspect most end-gamers just run a few high-end missions/content and don't bother with the rest, while most people underneath them do much the same but just with different tiers of content. I don't know if there's really anybody who can afford/care to do so many different things each day/week (raids, field bosses, SMs, TMs, dungeons, Baltane, Iria, etc).
  • CassyndraCassyndra
    Mabinogi Rep: 410
    Posts: 6
    Member
    remaking mabi 1 and comping us for everything we have in some way would be better than mabi 2.
  • josie_maybjosie_mayb
    Mabinogi Rep: 305
    Posts: 2
    Member
    Mabinogi 2

    no wait i've barely started this one D: