[NEW MILLETIANS] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the
Nexon Forums Code of Conduct. You have to register before you can post, so you can log in or create a forum name above to proceed. Thank you for your visit!
Comments
1. But why put this into a game that specifically goes out of its way to make this untrue? That's my question. There are plenty of games in which permadeath makes sense, why ask for it in one where it doesn't?
2. lolwut?
3. Consider giving this a read. A lot of the fun of games comes from being given a challenge and doing your best to overcome it. If the challenge is always the same, then there's little reason for the response to change. It's not even an issue specific to games, it's just part of human behaviour; why fix what already worked fine?
4. In the most literal sense possible this doesn't add at all. It disables a feature that's essential to the game working properly.
5. Laughs from Europe.
6. All of this game's non-solo content was made with the assumption that it would be challenged in groups who will help each other through it. Reviving a fallen teammate is a huge part of that, and with that gone, the difficulty of things can increase tremendously which isn't great when you're also trying to ramp up the punishment for failure.
7. But Nexon cares about its profits. Imagine a for-profit company spending money to lower its own income. Does that sound probable to you?
Look, if you want to abandon a character upon its first death, you're more than welcome to do that on the currently existing servers. Nobody's telling you not to find that enjoyable, we're explaining to you why a server that enforced those rules would be deserted, unprofitable, and ultimately closed down.
I am just lonely on this cold, wintery eve. Warm me...Helsa-chan.
What the mind can conceive, the hands can create. (cough cough) Just remember to think of England while doing so.
It looks like the issue here with this WHOLE argument is that it is based on your experience and your experience alone. You seem to be unable to understand that just because something doesn't happen to you/you don't feel a certain way/you haven't personally experienced it, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen to others. If you don't experience lag, that's great for you. You clearly don't recall whole monster servers crashing. Multiple instances of server-side lag/crashing has been happening throughout mabi's history. Check the bugs/crashes logs on mabi wiki and you'll see. That doesn't even list all of them, just crashes that happened to be recorded.
Considering your language seems very defensive and almost aggressive, I have decided I will be matching your energy.
Fundamentally, as many others have pointed out, this idea won't work. Literally NO ONE except for someone who suggested 20x multipliers has found that your idea would work.
As a human, as a member of this community, and as a member of society, empathy and sympathy are two skills that are vital. Put yourself into other people's perspectives. Quite frankly, It's quite amusing to see your attempts at retorts. You simply cannot argue with logic and patterns. There are plenty of people who have made valid points on why this whole idea won't work.
I'm quite an old player; I started back in 2012, about 7 years ago. My first character was a human, I had no idea what to do as the whole talent system was overwhelming. However, I started a new account and was able to hit 15k in about 5 years. It was horrible, yet fun. I grinded life skills for months. The whole gameplay derives from grinding your skills and then using those skills to get rewards, whether it be SM rewards or being able to craft high quality equipment or gears. I've done most (about 90%) of the content in this game, if not more. I'm sure Blissfulkill and others on this thread also have experience with this game.
The point that Blissfulkill brought up is quite interesting. Why not take permadeath into your own hands? If you want to do permadeath, enforce it upon yourself. If there's one student out of 1,000 that wants to take a music theory class, the school shouldn't have to create a class specifically for that student; rather, that student should begin an independent study. The concept is the same. If only very few want a permadeath, they should just do the concept Blissfulkill suggested rather than having a whole server created specifically to please those few people. It just doesn't make sense business-wise. Costs of running a server that can run the game, (not even mentioning smooth gameplay & capabilities with player amounts) can be upwards of thousands of dollars a month. This also doesn't mention events, future updates to content/gameplay, or even a team to change/maintain the new server. Assuming that Nexon would make most of their money from the normal servers, I think it's safe to assume that Considering the costs of the server heavily outweigh any potential sales from the permadeath server (because of its diminished/restricted sales on items). It simply is not plausible for Nexon to go into this knowing that they cannot make as much money.
Plus, I'm going to add that who would actually want to put time, money, or effort on grinding a permadeath character rather than just doing the same on their regular server character? If I want R1 Magic craft, I'm going to get it on my main rather than on a character that will lose it upon death. It's really a simple concept. Saying that "if people want it, they'll go for it". Well, considering that a lot of skills require a lot of training to effectively train, such as Magic Craft/Engineering, it simply isn't worth it. Monsters in the gather zones (Mutant man-eating plants that would probably easily ohko an average character with its chain cast fireball) make the risk not worth the reward.
Tailoring and Smithing have manuals that are either expensive or difficult to obtain.
Boss raids would be empty. These monsters can destroy most players with attacks that can insta-deadly (Sylvan Dragon's dark shockwave, WD/BD's Stomping movements). Sure, they provide a lot of great items, and gold, it simply isn't worth the risk. What's the point of getting a nice enchant if you can't even use it or reset your character trying to get it? Raiding is an important concept in the game. Some items are raid-exclusive. I bet you'll say "Well if they don't raid, they won't get it."
Well, there are quests (such as Lightning rod's "Thunder BD 50 times" or Innes' "Participate in Avalon raid" quest, as well as meteor strike's "Attack a Dragon" training) that require you to participate in raids. Materials are obtained from raids that greatly assist in training life skills (Such as manuals).
EDIT: SQUIRES, a concept.
What about squires? When you die, do they reset too? And festia? Those rewards are unobtainable elsewhere, do you lose them?
Titles, 2nd title coupons will lose value if they're reset.
The new techniques have requirements. One of them is to survive an attack over 1,000 for one of the titles (Who Transcended Death). That's super risky.
Overall, this concept, in an attempt to liberate players from the "regular mabi contraints", heavily LIMITS their gameplay. I doubt it'll be enjoyable.
At this point, yes. I agree with Helsa. It's irritating to explain a concept to someone who clearly doesn't want to understand. The person behind this idea is so fixated on the idea that "A permadeath server would work/be enjoyable/be realistic" that they're grasping at straws. I mean this in the most humble way possible, but
This ain't it.
(The whole concept, that is)
@Cho
You can't ignore these facts forever. If your idea ACTUALLY got implemented right this second, I guarantee you that it's going to fall apart sooner or later.
Edit: This was primarily directed at Cho. I am in complete agreement with those who think that it would overall be a bad idea.
Just to be clear, I'm not the one saying such a thing can work with Mabinogi. As for the "passion" of the person arguing in favor and their grasping at straws, maybe it's just a case of this.
Oh, Ye I was quoting you in agreement
That's just the nature of a Permadeath server though. The best part is that it isn't the norm. When Wizardry Online was still around the only option was permadeath and it was part of the game. There was a Soul Level that carried some bonuses over from when you died but that was it. At least there would be the normal servers to fall back on.
I'm okay with little perks here and there but I would want to keep the idea as simple as possible in the beginning. The more complicated it gets, the harder it would be to realize. Imagine trying to make current Mabi with all the things they've added until now, from scratch. It's way easier to test the waters and adjust later.
Again you're really reaching. You can't talk about what was intended at this game's creation and then make joke about bad lag because of European players that weren't even intended to be on this server in the first place. You're here now and you're welcome but if we're going to talk about intentions, this was an NA server.
You keep going back to profits and changing the game in a way that wasn't meant for it to be played. LIke I said, there are normal servers and we aren't Nexon's accountants. You should really stop minding Nexon's finances. Do you really go on every suggestion thread and bring up how much it would cost to implement ideas? Because I've never heard people bash Nexon so much while also talking about how we need more gachas and microtransactions for an idea to work in the same thread more than now. Tell me how much this would cost. You seem like you know something I don't about the costs of a new server.
I don't think I can respond to you anymore because you keep bringing up things already discussed and aren't making any sense.
I'm skimming through your comment and already see things wrong with what you're saying. I already said scripted deaths could be ignored in a system like this. Not going to bother with the rest since you're just memeing and have been rude since you've first posted.
:^) Have fun knowing this isn't going to happen
Each character should have their own bank and pet list, with no possibility for alts helping alts. Talents should be fixed at character creation with no possibility to learn skills from other talents (except some basic life skills). In other words, I want an exclusive class system. If you want to be a master blacksmith/engineer you'll have to choose that class at character creation and stick to your decision.
To properly roleplay your character you need to be able to add a bio/description to your right click menu. like this:
Like most suggestions, I don't have the highest expectations it will go anywhere. It would've been fine if it only went to the people I'm suggesting it to and not a variety of overly threatened forum regulars.
That's a different idea to what I'm suggesting but that also sounds interesting. I wanted to keep the bank in because usually in the permadeath games I play there's something that carries over. Soul Level in Wizardry Online, Bank in PoE, unlocked upgrades in all of the rogue-likes (and sometimes a currency you can spend before your next run), etc. I haven't played any MUDs before. Any you recommend?
EDIT: Also I figured expermenting could be done in the regular servers since it would be the same content
Don't forget the first and only rule of internet discussion: what is said is irrelevant, all that matters is who posts last. By posting last you have answered. By answering you have refuted all that came before. Until another post comes along your argument is proven.
If lag exists on Mabi, in any capacity, this won't work for you. You're entitled to your opinion but that's incredibly unreasonable in my own opinion.
"Oh my god, you don't even know about this thing that I know about! How dumb of you not to know how to program a game before you decide to leave a suggestion on a forum for a game! Bad!"
I clarify things that you or anyone else seem to be misunderstand about what I was envisioning with this suggestion meanwhile you keep wanting to play this game where you make an empty criticism, say something vague, and wait for me to ask what you mean so you can spew something out that's been already discussed.
I think you've hit rock bottom here. I'd be surprised if you could bring up anything deeper and more critical than "It just won't work, think of the money, think of the gameplay, no one will like it". Especially now that you're posting stuff like this:
I'm open to criticisms on how to make my suggestion work. I'm free to disagree with ideas that I think would change too much of my suggestion. I've posted ideas that were offered to the OP. I've read every post minus Faybal's last little rant. Very little has been contributed. You know this.
I'm legit just wanting people to pitch some ideas since they seem to be so infatuated with my post. Increased rates and talk about locking in talents have been nice but that's about it so far. Didn't really like the idea of revivals in the Cash Shop since that would be extremely pay to win.
I never wanted to attach a pole because I see the same posters on the forum all the time. Several of which have even posted here. I don't trust that the forum isn't just a loud minority. Besides I want Nexon or DevCat to decide, not armchair game devs. I make a poll, everyone who's been frequenting votes No and then the remaining posts are just trolls asking for thread locks and memes.
I don't look at my thread for a few hours and people are talking about me, the OP, in the 3rd person, passive agressively, rather than replying to me directly, and being rude. There's no way I'd poll on the forums.