Check out the patch notes for the September 10th update, Campfire Spirit: https://forums.mabinogi.nexon.net/discussion/23685
[NEW MILLETIANS] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the Nexon Forums Code of Conduct. You have to register before you can post, so you can log in or create a forum name above to proceed. Thank you for your visit!

Permadeath Server

Comments

  • OrkaneOrkane
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,255
    Posts: 130
    Member
    Cho wrote: »
    1. Ok so the problem with what you're saying is that there doesn't need to be story specific reasoning for a gimmick server. You're wrong. I've already explained that if you want a normal Mabinogi experience, you play on the other 4 servers. This does not take away from that.

    EDIT: Even then, is rebirthing really your character dying? When you die I would consider it a restart yet rebirthing would still be in that server so rebirthing isn't even affected. The game isn't even 100% lore accurate anymore. Read the Icebolt, Firebolt, and Lightning Bolt manuals. There's so much flavor text that doesn't apply.

    2. Second problem is you think it takes years to progress. You're wrong again. I've already stated that I have a different opinion on what significant progress means so you saying a blanket statement like "It takes years" is absolutely wrong to anyone who disagrees with that.

    3. The third paragraph you mention your feelings about how you think someone would just make the same character again. Mabinogi offers variety, it doesn't force it. If someone wants to be a boring person, they will have a boring time. If you want to do the same thing over and over repeatedly, maybe you'll have less fun in this type of server or situation.

    4. Trying to make up an unlikely scenario where someone spends years playing on a permadeath server, knowing the consequences, and has no fun doing so is a huge waste of my time and yours. This is an idea that adds to Mabi. You not wanting an addition is just denying something that could be fun for someone else to keep things the same for no reason.

    5. You mention the lag video. If that still happens, that's terrible, I'm sorry for those affected but it doesn't happen to me often if not at all in the east coast far away from the servers on average internet speeds and I want to believe I'm not the only one.

    6. Rebalancing is irrelevant. You shouldn't be thinking of Phantasm when you start out a lv1 on a new server with no items. Not being able to do 10% of content that might be the hardest content in the game doesn't invalidate the other 90% of content that is accessible. As people progress in the server, who knows what could be accomplished. I'm not going to pretend I've ran Phantasm or the have done every bit of content in the game but that doesn't invalidate the suggestion for this kind of server.

    7. Also I honestly don't care about gachas or potential Nexon's profits. If Nexon looks at my idea and says "cool! we'll do it", I trust there was someone on the team who balanced the pros and cons of implementing it. I'm not Nexon's accountant. You can think of some ideas to monetize it and contribute it to this thread but if it detracts from the heart of my idea I'll disagree with it.

    And the big main point you and everyone that comments seems to forget is that even if they quit the permadeath server, they could just return to the normal server. It's meant to be a temporary stay, not for them to keep their character permanently. I would expect that everyone on that kind of server will die eventually and if they don't then it would be impressive.

    1. But why put this into a game that specifically goes out of its way to make this untrue? That's my question. There are plenty of games in which permadeath makes sense, why ask for it in one where it doesn't?

    2. lolwut?

    3. Consider giving this a read. A lot of the fun of games comes from being given a challenge and doing your best to overcome it. If the challenge is always the same, then there's little reason for the response to change. It's not even an issue specific to games, it's just part of human behaviour; why fix what already worked fine?

    4. In the most literal sense possible this doesn't add at all. It disables a feature that's essential to the game working properly.

    5. Laughs from Europe.

    6. All of this game's non-solo content was made with the assumption that it would be challenged in groups who will help each other through it. Reviving a fallen teammate is a huge part of that, and with that gone, the difficulty of things can increase tremendously which isn't great when you're also trying to ramp up the punishment for failure.

    7. But Nexon cares about its profits. Imagine a for-profit company spending money to lower its own income. Does that sound probable to you?

    Look, if you want to abandon a character upon its first death, you're more than welcome to do that on the currently existing servers. Nobody's telling you not to find that enjoyable, we're explaining to you why a server that enforced those rules would be deserted, unprofitable, and ultimately closed down.
    SebastianBlissfulkillLeineiTwelie
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 15,460
    Posts: 3,371
    Member
    Is there really anything more to be said here? Everyone has presented their arguments clearly and exhaustively. No ones mind has been changed.
    BlissfulkillLeineiTwelie
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,940
    Posts: 2,759
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    Is there really anything more to be said here? Everyone has presented their arguments clearly and exhaustively. No ones mind has been changed.

    I am just lonely on this cold, wintery eve. Warm me...Helsa-chan. <3
    Faybal
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 15,460
    Posts: 3,371
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    Is there really anything more to be said here? Everyone has presented their arguments clearly and exhaustively. No ones mind has been changed.

    I am just lonely on this cold, wintery eve. Warm me...Helsa-chan. <3

    What the mind can conceive, the hands can create. (cough cough) Just remember to think of England while doing so.
    Faybal
  • FaybalFaybal
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,610
    Posts: 95
    Member
    edited January 12, 2019
    Orkane wrote: »
    Permadeath clashes violently with basically every aspect of mabi; heck we even have quests that REQUIRE YOU TO DIE. With the amount of work it would take to alter mabi enough to make this anymore than a frustrating, senseless waste of time, you really could have just created a new game with permadeath in mind from the start.
    I cackled,.,. That Memoir quest literally requires you to die.
    Cho wrote: »
    Eralea wrote: »


    MMMMMmmmmm I love the idea of permanently losing a character due to circumstances I can't control, yep.

    That's a really cool video from 2012. Yes the servers were like that but I think they've gotten a little better since then. I haven't experienced it in years but I don't if anyone else has. And that's such a rare occasion. It would be the biggest shame if that happened to someone. But it's definitely not common that people are surrounded by powerful enemies right during a lag spike.

    It looks like the issue here with this WHOLE argument is that it is based on your experience and your experience alone. You seem to be unable to understand that just because something doesn't happen to you/you don't feel a certain way/you haven't personally experienced it, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen to others. If you don't experience lag, that's great for you. You clearly don't recall whole monster servers crashing. Multiple instances of server-side lag/crashing has been happening throughout mabi's history. Check the bugs/crashes logs on mabi wiki and you'll see. That doesn't even list all of them, just crashes that happened to be recorded.

    Considering your language seems very defensive and almost aggressive, I have decided I will be matching your energy.

    Fundamentally, as many others have pointed out, this idea won't work. Literally NO ONE except for someone who suggested 20x multipliers has found that your idea would work.

    As a human, as a member of this community, and as a member of society, empathy and sympathy are two skills that are vital. Put yourself into other people's perspectives. Quite frankly, It's quite amusing to see your attempts at retorts. You simply cannot argue with logic and patterns. There are plenty of people who have made valid points on why this whole idea won't work.
    Cho wrote: »
    Orkane wrote: »
    Permadeath clashes violently with basically every aspect of mabi; heck we even have quests that REQUIRE YOU TO DIE. With the amount of work it would take to alter mabi enough to make this anymore than a frustrating, senseless waste of time, you really could have just created a new game with permadeath in mind from the start.

    If you're talking about G21 or G22, those deaths can be overlooked. Other than G21 and 22 that I haven't played yet, what are you talking about?

    EDIT: Also EVERY ASPECT? Really? Death used to be the most punishing thing in this game with blessings and items lost and negative exp. Didn't you used to lose more exp when you were revived by someone much lower level than you?
    With the amount of work it would take to alter mabi enough to make this anymore than a frustrating, senseless waste of time, you really could have just created a new game with permadeath in mind from the start.

    This line specifically please explain. The changes I suggested it would take to make this work aren't that grand so I want to know what nonsense you're talking about.
    Okay, this makes a lot more sense. You're probably a newer player who hasn't done all of the content. Memoir (An extension of the tutorial quests, literally has a quest where they show you how to use nao stones (by requiring you to die). Some quests are able to be done while you are dead (Such as G19, where the knights attack the girg. You can lay there, dead, while the knights finish the girg off for you).

    I'm quite an old player; I started back in 2012, about 7 years ago. My first character was a human, I had no idea what to do as the whole talent system was overwhelming. However, I started a new account and was able to hit 15k in about 5 years. It was horrible, yet fun. I grinded life skills for months. The whole gameplay derives from grinding your skills and then using those skills to get rewards, whether it be SM rewards or being able to craft high quality equipment or gears. I've done most (about 90%) of the content in this game, if not more. I'm sure Blissfulkill and others on this thread also have experience with this game.

    The point that Blissfulkill brought up is quite interesting. Why not take permadeath into your own hands? If you want to do permadeath, enforce it upon yourself. If there's one student out of 1,000 that wants to take a music theory class, the school shouldn't have to create a class specifically for that student; rather, that student should begin an independent study. The concept is the same. If only very few want a permadeath, they should just do the concept Blissfulkill suggested rather than having a whole server created specifically to please those few people. It just doesn't make sense business-wise. Costs of running a server that can run the game, (not even mentioning smooth gameplay & capabilities with player amounts) can be upwards of thousands of dollars a month. This also doesn't mention events, future updates to content/gameplay, or even a team to change/maintain the new server. Assuming that Nexon would make most of their money from the normal servers, I think it's safe to assume that Considering the costs of the server heavily outweigh any potential sales from the permadeath server (because of its diminished/restricted sales on items). It simply is not plausible for Nexon to go into this knowing that they cannot make as much money.

    Plus, I'm going to add that who would actually want to put time, money, or effort on grinding a permadeath character rather than just doing the same on their regular server character? If I want R1 Magic craft, I'm going to get it on my main rather than on a character that will lose it upon death. It's really a simple concept. Saying that "if people want it, they'll go for it". Well, considering that a lot of skills require a lot of training to effectively train, such as Magic Craft/Engineering, it simply isn't worth it. Monsters in the gather zones (Mutant man-eating plants that would probably easily ohko an average character with its chain cast fireball) make the risk not worth the reward.

    Tailoring and Smithing have manuals that are either expensive or difficult to obtain.

    Boss raids would be empty. These monsters can destroy most players with attacks that can insta-deadly (Sylvan Dragon's dark shockwave, WD/BD's Stomping movements). Sure, they provide a lot of great items, and gold, it simply isn't worth the risk. What's the point of getting a nice enchant if you can't even use it or reset your character trying to get it? Raiding is an important concept in the game. Some items are raid-exclusive. I bet you'll say "Well if they don't raid, they won't get it."
    Well, there are quests (such as Lightning rod's "Thunder BD 50 times" or Innes' "Participate in Avalon raid" quest, as well as meteor strike's "Attack a Dragon" training) that require you to participate in raids. Materials are obtained from raids that greatly assist in training life skills (Such as manuals).

    EDIT: SQUIRES, a concept.
    What about squires? When you die, do they reset too? And festia? Those rewards are unobtainable elsewhere, do you lose them?
    Titles, 2nd title coupons will lose value if they're reset.
    The new techniques have requirements. One of them is to survive an attack over 1,000 for one of the titles (Who Transcended Death). That's super risky.

    Overall, this concept, in an attempt to liberate players from the "regular mabi contraints", heavily LIMITS their gameplay. I doubt it'll be enjoyable.
    Helsa wrote: »
    Is there really anything more to be said here? Everyone has presented their arguments clearly and exhaustively. No ones mind has been changed.

    At this point, yes. I agree with Helsa. It's irritating to explain a concept to someone who clearly doesn't want to understand. The person behind this idea is so fixated on the idea that "A permadeath server would work/be enjoyable/be realistic" that they're grasping at straws. I mean this in the most humble way possible, but

    This ain't it.
    (The whole concept, that is)

    @Cho
    You can't ignore these facts forever. If your idea ACTUALLY got implemented right this second, I guarantee you that it's going to fall apart sooner or later.


    Dwmf0SEV4AAjmkb.jpg:large
    Edit: This was primarily directed at Cho. I am in complete agreement with those who think that it would overall be a bad idea.
    LeineiTwelie
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 15,460
    Posts: 3,371
    Member
    Faybal wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    Is there really anything more to be said here? Everyone has presented their arguments clearly and exhaustively. No ones mind has been changed.

    At this point, yes. It's irritating to explain a concept to someone who clearly doesn't want to understand. Maybe you want to, but you're so fixated on the idea that "A permadeath server would work/be enjoyable/be realistic" that you're grasping at straws. I mean this in the most humble way possible, but

    This ain't it.

    Just to be clear, I'm not the one saying such a thing can work with Mabinogi. As for the "passion" of the person arguing in favor and their grasping at straws, maybe it's just a case of this.

    Faybal
  • FaybalFaybal
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,610
    Posts: 95
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    Faybal wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    Is there really anything more to be said here? Everyone has presented their arguments clearly and exhaustively. No ones mind has been changed.

    At this point, yes. It's irritating to explain a concept to someone who clearly doesn't want to understand. Maybe you want to, but you're so fixated on the idea that "A permadeath server would work/be enjoyable/be realistic" that you're grasping at straws. I mean this in the most humble way possible, but

    This ain't it.

    Just to be clear, I'm not the one saying such a thing can work with Mabinogi. As for the "passion" of the person arguing in favor and their grasping at straws, maybe it's just a case of this.

    Oh, Ye I was quoting you in agreement :) We're on the same page :) I probably should've noted that ;-;
  • AkirachuAkirachu
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,965
    Posts: 263
    Member
    everyone would quit the moment this is put in or never go to that server i would never want to start over this isnt fire emblem lol
    Faybal
  • ChoCho
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,575
    Posts: 163
    Member
    Leinei wrote: »
    Ok, fine. Your point there. However, there are issues that are beyond a player's control like power outages and DDOS attacks like we have suffered before (and causes server instability and ISN'T a factor within a players control). If you are playing still and one of those suddenly strike, poof goes your progress. Power outages aren't just caused by bad weather, so it can't always be predicted and therefore within a player's control. What happens if a server crashes while players are on? That is also not player control.

    I understand that you're trying to make Mabi more exciting and I applaud that, but the system you currently have in place is too unforgiving to where I feel it could be viable. If skills could be gained in a fashion (especially life skills like I have mentioned)where losing them wouldn't be too horrible a hardship, then perhaps more would be fond of the idea. Currently, as it stands, the risk severely outweighs the potential reward and doesn't make for an attractive challenge. Not when so much can be lost as a result.

    Like for example, if you could earn more mats from doing the daily jobs than you would via a normal server and you get double skill points from the ptj (in cases where you produce an item for them) that would be easier and be less risk. Maybe give the page related skills as an automatic "prize" for hitting x rank of something (say Ice Spear once you hit rank A Ice Bolt). Maybe skill seals could be dungeon prizes.

    Another thing you could do is not have the player lose everything, but perhaps one skill? That would put a good amount of risk as players could stand to lose rank 1 Sakura Abyss vs. rank 1 Icebolt. Or maybe just make it a few ranks for whatever skill winds up on the chopping block. Players could still enjoy it while playing with chance.

    That's just the nature of a Permadeath server though. The best part is that it isn't the norm. When Wizardry Online was still around the only option was permadeath and it was part of the game. There was a Soul Level that carried some bonuses over from when you died but that was it. At least there would be the normal servers to fall back on.

    I'm okay with little perks here and there but I would want to keep the idea as simple as possible in the beginning. The more complicated it gets, the harder it would be to realize. Imagine trying to make current Mabi with all the things they've added until now, from scratch. It's way easier to test the waters and adjust later.
  • ChoCho
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,575
    Posts: 163
    Member
    Orkane wrote: »
    Cho wrote: »
    1. Ok so the problem with what you're saying is that there doesn't need to be story specific reasoning for a gimmick server. You're wrong. I've already explained that if you want a normal Mabinogi experience, you play on the other 4 servers. This does not take away from that.

    EDIT: Even then, is rebirthing really your character dying? When you die I would consider it a restart yet rebirthing would still be in that server so rebirthing isn't even affected. The game isn't even 100% lore accurate anymore. Read the Icebolt, Firebolt, and Lightning Bolt manuals. There's so much flavor text that doesn't apply.

    2. Second problem is you think it takes years to progress. You're wrong again. I've already stated that I have a different opinion on what significant progress means so you saying a blanket statement like "It takes years" is absolutely wrong to anyone who disagrees with that.

    3. The third paragraph you mention your feelings about how you think someone would just make the same character again. Mabinogi offers variety, it doesn't force it. If someone wants to be a boring person, they will have a boring time. If you want to do the same thing over and over repeatedly, maybe you'll have less fun in this type of server or situation.

    4. Trying to make up an unlikely scenario where someone spends years playing on a permadeath server, knowing the consequences, and has no fun doing so is a huge waste of my time and yours. This is an idea that adds to Mabi. You not wanting an addition is just denying something that could be fun for someone else to keep things the same for no reason.

    5. You mention the lag video. If that still happens, that's terrible, I'm sorry for those affected but it doesn't happen to me often if not at all in the east coast far away from the servers on average internet speeds and I want to believe I'm not the only one.

    6. Rebalancing is irrelevant. You shouldn't be thinking of Phantasm when you start out a lv1 on a new server with no items. Not being able to do 10% of content that might be the hardest content in the game doesn't invalidate the other 90% of content that is accessible. As people progress in the server, who knows what could be accomplished. I'm not going to pretend I've ran Phantasm or the have done every bit of content in the game but that doesn't invalidate the suggestion for this kind of server.

    7. Also I honestly don't care about gachas or potential Nexon's profits. If Nexon looks at my idea and says "cool! we'll do it", I trust there was someone on the team who balanced the pros and cons of implementing it. I'm not Nexon's accountant. You can think of some ideas to monetize it and contribute it to this thread but if it detracts from the heart of my idea I'll disagree with it.

    And the big main point you and everyone that comments seems to forget is that even if they quit the permadeath server, they could just return to the normal server. It's meant to be a temporary stay, not for them to keep their character permanently. I would expect that everyone on that kind of server will die eventually and if they don't then it would be impressive.

    1. But why put this into a game that specifically goes out of its way to make this untrue? That's my question. There are plenty of games in which permadeath makes sense, why ask for it in one where it doesn't?

    2. lolwut?

    3. Consider giving this a read. A lot of the fun of games comes from being given a challenge and doing your best to overcome it. If the challenge is always the same, then there's little reason for the response to change. It's not even an issue specific to games, it's just part of human behaviour; why fix what already worked fine?

    4. In the most literal sense possible this doesn't add at all. It disables a feature that's essential to the game working properly.

    5. Laughs from Europe.

    6. All of this game's non-solo content was made with the assumption that it would be challenged in groups who will help each other through it. Reviving a fallen teammate is a huge part of that, and with that gone, the difficulty of things can increase tremendously which isn't great when you're also trying to ramp up the punishment for failure.

    7. But Nexon cares about its profits. Imagine a for-profit company spending money to lower its own income. Does that sound probable to you?

    Look, if you want to abandon a character upon its first death, you're more than welcome to do that on the currently existing servers. Nobody's telling you not to find that enjoyable, we're explaining to you why a server that enforced those rules would be deserted, unprofitable, and ultimately closed down.

    Again you're really reaching. You can't talk about what was intended at this game's creation and then make joke about bad lag because of European players that weren't even intended to be on this server in the first place. You're here now and you're welcome but if we're going to talk about intentions, this was an NA server.

    You keep going back to profits and changing the game in a way that wasn't meant for it to be played. LIke I said, there are normal servers and we aren't Nexon's accountants. You should really stop minding Nexon's finances. Do you really go on every suggestion thread and bring up how much it would cost to implement ideas? Because I've never heard people bash Nexon so much while also talking about how we need more gachas and microtransactions for an idea to work in the same thread more than now. Tell me how much this would cost. You seem like you know something I don't about the costs of a new server.

    I don't think I can respond to you anymore because you keep bringing up things already discussed and aren't making any sense.
  • ChoCho
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,575
    Posts: 163
    Member
    Faybal wrote: »
    Orkane wrote: »
    Permadeath clashes violently with basically every aspect of mabi; heck we even have quests that REQUIRE YOU TO DIE. With the amount of work it would take to alter mabi enough to make this anymore than a frustrating, senseless waste of time, you really could have just created a new game with permadeath in mind from the start.
    I cackled,.,. That Memoir quest literally requires you to die.
    Cho wrote: »
    Eralea wrote: »


    MMMMMmmmmm I love the idea of permanently losing a character due to circumstances I can't control, yep.

    That's a really cool video from 2012. Yes the servers were like that but I think they've gotten a little better since then. I haven't experienced it in years but I don't if anyone else has. And that's such a rare occasion. It would be the biggest shame if that happened to someone. But it's definitely not common that people are surrounded by powerful enemies right during a lag spike.

    It looks like the issue here with this WHOLE argument is that it is based on your experience and your experience alone. You seem to be unable to understand that just because something doesn't happen to you/you don't feel a certain way/you haven't personally experienced it, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen to others. If you don't experience lag, that's great for you. You clearly don't recall whole monster servers crashing. Multiple instances of server-side lag/crashing has been happening throughout mabi's history. Check the bugs/crashes logs on mabi wiki and you'll see. That doesn't even list all of them, just crashes that happened to be recorded.

    Considering your language seems very defensive and almost aggressive, I have decided I will be matching your energy.

    Fundamentally, as many others have pointed out, this idea won't work. Literally NO ONE except for someone who suggested 20x multipliers has found that your idea would work.

    As a human, as a member of this community, and as a member of society, empathy and sympathy are two skills that are vital. Put yourself into other people's perspectives. Quite frankly, It's quite amusing to see your attempts at retorts. You simply cannot argue with logic and patterns. There are plenty of people who have made valid points on why this whole idea won't work.
    Cho wrote: »
    Orkane wrote: »
    Permadeath clashes violently with basically every aspect of mabi; heck we even have quests that REQUIRE YOU TO DIE. With the amount of work it would take to alter mabi enough to make this anymore than a frustrating, senseless waste of time, you really could have just created a new game with permadeath in mind from the start.

    If you're talking about G21 or G22, those deaths can be overlooked. Other than G21 and 22 that I haven't played yet, what are you talking about?

    EDIT: Also EVERY ASPECT? Really? Death used to be the most punishing thing in this game with blessings and items lost and negative exp. Didn't you used to lose more exp when you were revived by someone much lower level than you?
    With the amount of work it would take to alter mabi enough to make this anymore than a frustrating, senseless waste of time, you really could have just created a new game with permadeath in mind from the start.

    This line specifically please explain. The changes I suggested it would take to make this work aren't that grand so I want to know what nonsense you're talking about.
    Okay, this makes a lot more sense. You're probably a newer player who hasn't done all of the content. Memoir (An extension of the tutorial quests, literally has a quest where they show you how to use nao stones (by requiring you to die). Some quests are able to be done while you are dead (Such as G19, where the knights attack the girg. You can lay there, dead, while the knights finish the girg off for you).

    I'm quite an old player; I started back in 2012, about 7 years ago. My first character was a human, I had no idea what to do as the whole talent system was overwhelming. However, I started a new account and was able to hit 15k in about 5 years. It was horrible, yet fun. I grinded life skills for months. The whole gameplay derives from grinding your skills and then using those skills to get rewards, whether it be SM rewards or being able to craft high quality equipment or gears. I've done most (about 90%) of the content in this game, if not more. I'm sure Blissfulkill and others on this thread also have experience with this game.

    The point that Blissfulkill brought up is quite interesting. Why not take permadeath into your own hands? If you want to do permadeath, enforce it upon yourself. If there's one student out of 1,000 that wants to take a music theory class, the school shouldn't have to create a class specifically for that student; rather, that student should begin an independent study. The concept is the same. If only very few want a permadeath, they should just do the concept Blissfulkill suggested rather than having a whole server created specifically to please those few people. It just doesn't make sense business-wise. Costs of running a server that can run the game, (not even mentioning smooth gameplay & capabilities with player amounts) can be upwards of thousands of dollars a month. This also doesn't mention events, future updates to content/gameplay, or even a team to change/maintain the new server. Assuming that Nexon would make most of their money from the normal servers, I think it's safe to assume that Considering the costs of the server heavily outweigh any potential sales from the permadeath server (because of its diminished/restricted sales on items). It simply is not plausible for Nexon to go into this knowing that they cannot make as much money.

    Plus, I'm going to add that who would actually want to put time, money, or effort on grinding a permadeath character rather than just doing the same on their regular server character? If I want R1 Magic craft, I'm going to get it on my main rather than on a character that will lose it upon death. It's really a simple concept. Saying that "if people want it, they'll go for it". Well, considering that a lot of skills require a lot of training to effectively train, such as Magic Craft/Engineering, it simply isn't worth it. Monsters in the gather zones (Mutant man-eating plants that would probably easily ohko an average character with its chain cast fireball) make the risk not worth the reward.

    Tailoring and Smithing have manuals that are either expensive or difficult to obtain.

    Boss raids would be empty. These monsters can destroy most players with attacks that can insta-deadly (Sylvan Dragon's dark shockwave, WD/BD's Stomping movements). Sure, they provide a lot of great items, and gold, it simply isn't worth the risk. What's the point of getting a nice enchant if you can't even use it or reset your character trying to get it? Raiding is an important concept in the game. Some items are raid-exclusive. I bet you'll say "Well if they don't raid, they won't get it."
    Well, there are quests (such as Lightning rod's "Thunder BD 50 times" or Innes' "Participate in Avalon raid" quest, as well as meteor strike's "Attack a Dragon" training) that require you to participate in raids. Materials are obtained from raids that greatly assist in training life skills (Such as manuals).

    EDIT: SQUIRES, a concept.
    What about squires? When you die, do they reset too? And festia? Those rewards are unobtainable elsewhere, do you lose them?
    Titles, 2nd title coupons will lose value if they're reset.
    The new techniques have requirements. One of them is to survive an attack over 1,000 for one of the titles (Who Transcended Death). That's super risky.

    Overall, this concept, in an attempt to liberate players from the "regular mabi contraints", heavily LIMITS their gameplay. I doubt it'll be enjoyable.
    Helsa wrote: »
    Is there really anything more to be said here? Everyone has presented their arguments clearly and exhaustively. No ones mind has been changed.

    At this point, yes. I agree with Helsa. It's irritating to explain a concept to someone who clearly doesn't want to understand. The person behind this idea is so fixated on the idea that "A permadeath server would work/be enjoyable/be realistic" that they're grasping at straws. I mean this in the most humble way possible, but

    This ain't it.
    (The whole concept, that is)

    @Cho
    You can't ignore these facts forever. If your idea ACTUALLY got implemented right this second, I guarantee you that it's going to fall apart sooner or later.


    Dwmf0SEV4AAjmkb.jpg:large
    Edit: This was primarily directed at Cho. I am in complete agreement with those who think that it would overall be a bad idea.


    I'm skimming through your comment and already see things wrong with what you're saying. I already said scripted deaths could be ignored in a system like this. Not going to bother with the rest since you're just memeing and have been rude since you've first posted.
  • FaybalFaybal
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,610
    Posts: 95
    Member
    Cho wrote: »
    Faybal wrote: »
    Orkane wrote: »
    Permadeath clashes violently with basically every aspect of mabi; heck we even have quests that REQUIRE YOU TO DIE. With the amount of work it would take to alter mabi enough to make this anymore than a frustrating, senseless waste of time, you really could have just created a new game with permadeath in mind from the start.
    I cackled,.,. That Memoir quest literally requires you to die.
    Cho wrote: »
    Eralea wrote: »


    MMMMMmmmmm I love the idea of permanently losing a character due to circumstances I can't control, yep.

    That's a really cool video from 2012. Yes the servers were like that but I think they've gotten a little better since then. I haven't experienced it in years but I don't if anyone else has. And that's such a rare occasion. It would be the biggest shame if that happened to someone. But it's definitely not common that people are surrounded by powerful enemies right during a lag spike.

    It looks like the issue here with this WHOLE argument is that it is based on your experience and your experience alone. You seem to be unable to understand that just because something doesn't happen to you/you don't feel a certain way/you haven't personally experienced it, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen to others. If you don't experience lag, that's great for you. You clearly don't recall whole monster servers crashing. Multiple instances of server-side lag/crashing has been happening throughout mabi's history. Check the bugs/crashes logs on mabi wiki and you'll see. That doesn't even list all of them, just crashes that happened to be recorded.

    Considering your language seems very defensive and almost aggressive, I have decided I will be matching your energy.

    Fundamentally, as many others have pointed out, this idea won't work. Literally NO ONE except for someone who suggested 20x multipliers has found that your idea would work.

    As a human, as a member of this community, and as a member of society, empathy and sympathy are two skills that are vital. Put yourself into other people's perspectives. Quite frankly, It's quite amusing to see your attempts at retorts. You simply cannot argue with logic and patterns. There are plenty of people who have made valid points on why this whole idea won't work.
    Cho wrote: »
    Orkane wrote: »
    Permadeath clashes violently with basically every aspect of mabi; heck we even have quests that REQUIRE YOU TO DIE. With the amount of work it would take to alter mabi enough to make this anymore than a frustrating, senseless waste of time, you really could have just created a new game with permadeath in mind from the start.

    If you're talking about G21 or G22, those deaths can be overlooked. Other than G21 and 22 that I haven't played yet, what are you talking about?

    EDIT: Also EVERY ASPECT? Really? Death used to be the most punishing thing in this game with blessings and items lost and negative exp. Didn't you used to lose more exp when you were revived by someone much lower level than you?
    With the amount of work it would take to alter mabi enough to make this anymore than a frustrating, senseless waste of time, you really could have just created a new game with permadeath in mind from the start.

    This line specifically please explain. The changes I suggested it would take to make this work aren't that grand so I want to know what nonsense you're talking about.
    Okay, this makes a lot more sense. You're probably a newer player who hasn't done all of the content. Memoir (An extension of the tutorial quests, literally has a quest where they show you how to use nao stones (by requiring you to die). Some quests are able to be done while you are dead (Such as G19, where the knights attack the girg. You can lay there, dead, while the knights finish the girg off for you).

    I'm quite an old player; I started back in 2012, about 7 years ago. My first character was a human, I had no idea what to do as the whole talent system was overwhelming. However, I started a new account and was able to hit 15k in about 5 years. It was horrible, yet fun. I grinded life skills for months. The whole gameplay derives from grinding your skills and then using those skills to get rewards, whether it be SM rewards or being able to craft high quality equipment or gears. I've done most (about 90%) of the content in this game, if not more. I'm sure Blissfulkill and others on this thread also have experience with this game.

    The point that Blissfulkill brought up is quite interesting. Why not take permadeath into your own hands? If you want to do permadeath, enforce it upon yourself. If there's one student out of 1,000 that wants to take a music theory class, the school shouldn't have to create a class specifically for that student; rather, that student should begin an independent study. The concept is the same. If only very few want a permadeath, they should just do the concept Blissfulkill suggested rather than having a whole server created specifically to please those few people. It just doesn't make sense business-wise. Costs of running a server that can run the game, (not even mentioning smooth gameplay & capabilities with player amounts) can be upwards of thousands of dollars a month. This also doesn't mention events, future updates to content/gameplay, or even a team to change/maintain the new server. Assuming that Nexon would make most of their money from the normal servers, I think it's safe to assume that Considering the costs of the server heavily outweigh any potential sales from the permadeath server (because of its diminished/restricted sales on items). It simply is not plausible for Nexon to go into this knowing that they cannot make as much money.

    Plus, I'm going to add that who would actually want to put time, money, or effort on grinding a permadeath character rather than just doing the same on their regular server character? If I want R1 Magic craft, I'm going to get it on my main rather than on a character that will lose it upon death. It's really a simple concept. Saying that "if people want it, they'll go for it". Well, considering that a lot of skills require a lot of training to effectively train, such as Magic Craft/Engineering, it simply isn't worth it. Monsters in the gather zones (Mutant man-eating plants that would probably easily ohko an average character with its chain cast fireball) make the risk not worth the reward.

    Tailoring and Smithing have manuals that are either expensive or difficult to obtain.

    Boss raids would be empty. These monsters can destroy most players with attacks that can insta-deadly (Sylvan Dragon's dark shockwave, WD/BD's Stomping movements). Sure, they provide a lot of great items, and gold, it simply isn't worth the risk. What's the point of getting a nice enchant if you can't even use it or reset your character trying to get it? Raiding is an important concept in the game. Some items are raid-exclusive. I bet you'll say "Well if they don't raid, they won't get it."
    Well, there are quests (such as Lightning rod's "Thunder BD 50 times" or Innes' "Participate in Avalon raid" quest, as well as meteor strike's "Attack a Dragon" training) that require you to participate in raids. Materials are obtained from raids that greatly assist in training life skills (Such as manuals).

    EDIT: SQUIRES, a concept.
    What about squires? When you die, do they reset too? And festia? Those rewards are unobtainable elsewhere, do you lose them?
    Titles, 2nd title coupons will lose value if they're reset.
    The new techniques have requirements. One of them is to survive an attack over 1,000 for one of the titles (Who Transcended Death). That's super risky.

    Overall, this concept, in an attempt to liberate players from the "regular mabi contraints", heavily LIMITS their gameplay. I doubt it'll be enjoyable.
    Helsa wrote: »
    Is there really anything more to be said here? Everyone has presented their arguments clearly and exhaustively. No ones mind has been changed.

    At this point, yes. I agree with Helsa. It's irritating to explain a concept to someone who clearly doesn't want to understand. The person behind this idea is so fixated on the idea that "A permadeath server would work/be enjoyable/be realistic" that they're grasping at straws. I mean this in the most humble way possible, but

    This ain't it.
    (The whole concept, that is)

    @Cho
    You can't ignore these facts forever. If your idea ACTUALLY got implemented right this second, I guarantee you that it's going to fall apart sooner or later.


    Dwmf0SEV4AAjmkb.jpg:large
    Edit: This was primarily directed at Cho. I am in complete agreement with those who think that it would overall be a bad idea.


    I'm skimming through your comment and already see things wrong with what you're saying. I already said scripted deaths could be ignored in a system like this. Not going to bother with the rest since you're just memeing and have been rude since you've first posted.


    :^) Have fun knowing this isn't going to happen
    giphy.gif
    Sebastian
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,845
    Posts: 790
    Member
    I think you need to go further, OP. Don't let them keep ANYTHING after they die, not bank contents, not pets, not even the player name. I disagree about making it 1 character per account. Alts are very important in permadeath MUDs, since you can take far more risks with a throwaway or experimental character than with a conservative, well-built character.

    Each character should have their own bank and pet list, with no possibility for alts helping alts. Talents should be fixed at character creation with no possibility to learn skills from other talents (except some basic life skills). In other words, I want an exclusive class system. If you want to be a master blacksmith/engineer you'll have to choose that class at character creation and stick to your decision.

    To properly roleplay your character you need to be able to add a bio/description to your right click menu. like this:

    HDYSB4N.jpg
  • ChoCho
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,575
    Posts: 163
    Member
    Faybal wrote: »
    Cho wrote: »
    Faybal wrote: »
    Orkane wrote: »
    Permadeath clashes violently with basically every aspect of mabi; heck we even have quests that REQUIRE YOU TO DIE. With the amount of work it would take to alter mabi enough to make this anymore than a frustrating, senseless waste of time, you really could have just created a new game with permadeath in mind from the start.
    I cackled,.,. That Memoir quest literally requires you to die.
    Cho wrote: »
    Eralea wrote: »


    MMMMMmmmmm I love the idea of permanently losing a character due to circumstances I can't control, yep.

    That's a really cool video from 2012. Yes the servers were like that but I think they've gotten a little better since then. I haven't experienced it in years but I don't if anyone else has. And that's such a rare occasion. It would be the biggest shame if that happened to someone. But it's definitely not common that people are surrounded by powerful enemies right during a lag spike.

    It looks like the issue here with this WHOLE argument is that it is based on your experience and your experience alone. You seem to be unable to understand that just because something doesn't happen to you/you don't feel a certain way/you haven't personally experienced it, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen to others. If you don't experience lag, that's great for you. You clearly don't recall whole monster servers crashing. Multiple instances of server-side lag/crashing has been happening throughout mabi's history. Check the bugs/crashes logs on mabi wiki and you'll see. That doesn't even list all of them, just crashes that happened to be recorded.

    Considering your language seems very defensive and almost aggressive, I have decided I will be matching your energy.

    Fundamentally, as many others have pointed out, this idea won't work. Literally NO ONE except for someone who suggested 20x multipliers has found that your idea would work.

    As a human, as a member of this community, and as a member of society, empathy and sympathy are two skills that are vital. Put yourself into other people's perspectives. Quite frankly, It's quite amusing to see your attempts at retorts. You simply cannot argue with logic and patterns. There are plenty of people who have made valid points on why this whole idea won't work.
    Cho wrote: »
    Orkane wrote: »
    Permadeath clashes violently with basically every aspect of mabi; heck we even have quests that REQUIRE YOU TO DIE. With the amount of work it would take to alter mabi enough to make this anymore than a frustrating, senseless waste of time, you really could have just created a new game with permadeath in mind from the start.

    If you're talking about G21 or G22, those deaths can be overlooked. Other than G21 and 22 that I haven't played yet, what are you talking about?

    EDIT: Also EVERY ASPECT? Really? Death used to be the most punishing thing in this game with blessings and items lost and negative exp. Didn't you used to lose more exp when you were revived by someone much lower level than you?
    With the amount of work it would take to alter mabi enough to make this anymore than a frustrating, senseless waste of time, you really could have just created a new game with permadeath in mind from the start.

    This line specifically please explain. The changes I suggested it would take to make this work aren't that grand so I want to know what nonsense you're talking about.
    Okay, this makes a lot more sense. You're probably a newer player who hasn't done all of the content. Memoir (An extension of the tutorial quests, literally has a quest where they show you how to use nao stones (by requiring you to die). Some quests are able to be done while you are dead (Such as G19, where the knights attack the girg. You can lay there, dead, while the knights finish the girg off for you).

    I'm quite an old player; I started back in 2012, about 7 years ago. My first character was a human, I had no idea what to do as the whole talent system was overwhelming. However, I started a new account and was able to hit 15k in about 5 years. It was horrible, yet fun. I grinded life skills for months. The whole gameplay derives from grinding your skills and then using those skills to get rewards, whether it be SM rewards or being able to craft high quality equipment or gears. I've done most (about 90%) of the content in this game, if not more. I'm sure Blissfulkill and others on this thread also have experience with this game.

    The point that Blissfulkill brought up is quite interesting. Why not take permadeath into your own hands? If you want to do permadeath, enforce it upon yourself. If there's one student out of 1,000 that wants to take a music theory class, the school shouldn't have to create a class specifically for that student; rather, that student should begin an independent study. The concept is the same. If only very few want a permadeath, they should just do the concept Blissfulkill suggested rather than having a whole server created specifically to please those few people. It just doesn't make sense business-wise. Costs of running a server that can run the game, (not even mentioning smooth gameplay & capabilities with player amounts) can be upwards of thousands of dollars a month. This also doesn't mention events, future updates to content/gameplay, or even a team to change/maintain the new server. Assuming that Nexon would make most of their money from the normal servers, I think it's safe to assume that Considering the costs of the server heavily outweigh any potential sales from the permadeath server (because of its diminished/restricted sales on items). It simply is not plausible for Nexon to go into this knowing that they cannot make as much money.

    Plus, I'm going to add that who would actually want to put time, money, or effort on grinding a permadeath character rather than just doing the same on their regular server character? If I want R1 Magic craft, I'm going to get it on my main rather than on a character that will lose it upon death. It's really a simple concept. Saying that "if people want it, they'll go for it". Well, considering that a lot of skills require a lot of training to effectively train, such as Magic Craft/Engineering, it simply isn't worth it. Monsters in the gather zones (Mutant man-eating plants that would probably easily ohko an average character with its chain cast fireball) make the risk not worth the reward.

    Tailoring and Smithing have manuals that are either expensive or difficult to obtain.

    Boss raids would be empty. These monsters can destroy most players with attacks that can insta-deadly (Sylvan Dragon's dark shockwave, WD/BD's Stomping movements). Sure, they provide a lot of great items, and gold, it simply isn't worth the risk. What's the point of getting a nice enchant if you can't even use it or reset your character trying to get it? Raiding is an important concept in the game. Some items are raid-exclusive. I bet you'll say "Well if they don't raid, they won't get it."
    Well, there are quests (such as Lightning rod's "Thunder BD 50 times" or Innes' "Participate in Avalon raid" quest, as well as meteor strike's "Attack a Dragon" training) that require you to participate in raids. Materials are obtained from raids that greatly assist in training life skills (Such as manuals).

    EDIT: SQUIRES, a concept.
    What about squires? When you die, do they reset too? And festia? Those rewards are unobtainable elsewhere, do you lose them?
    Titles, 2nd title coupons will lose value if they're reset.
    The new techniques have requirements. One of them is to survive an attack over 1,000 for one of the titles (Who Transcended Death). That's super risky.

    Overall, this concept, in an attempt to liberate players from the "regular mabi contraints", heavily LIMITS their gameplay. I doubt it'll be enjoyable.
    Helsa wrote: »
    Is there really anything more to be said here? Everyone has presented their arguments clearly and exhaustively. No ones mind has been changed.

    At this point, yes. I agree with Helsa. It's irritating to explain a concept to someone who clearly doesn't want to understand. The person behind this idea is so fixated on the idea that "A permadeath server would work/be enjoyable/be realistic" that they're grasping at straws. I mean this in the most humble way possible, but

    This ain't it.
    (The whole concept, that is)

    @Cho
    You can't ignore these facts forever. If your idea ACTUALLY got implemented right this second, I guarantee you that it's going to fall apart sooner or later.


    Dwmf0SEV4AAjmkb.jpg:large
    Edit: This was primarily directed at Cho. I am in complete agreement with those who think that it would overall be a bad idea.


    I'm skimming through your comment and already see things wrong with what you're saying. I already said scripted deaths could be ignored in a system like this. Not going to bother with the rest since you're just memeing and have been rude since you've first posted.


    :^) Have fun knowing this isn't going to happen
    giphy.gif

    Like most suggestions, I don't have the highest expectations it will go anywhere. It would've been fine if it only went to the people I'm suggesting it to and not a variety of overly threatened forum regulars.
  • ChoCho
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,575
    Posts: 163
    Member
    edited January 12, 2019
    I think you need to go further, OP. Don't let them keep ANYTHING after they die, not bank contents, not pets, not even the player name. I disagree about making it 1 character per account. Alts are very important in permadeath MUDs, since you can take far more risks with a throwaway or experimental character than with a conservative, well-built character.

    Each character should have their own bank and pet list, with no possibility for alts helping alts. Talents should be fixed at character creation with no possibility to learn skills from other talents (except some basic life skills). In other words, I want an exclusive class system. If you want to be a master blacksmith/engineer you'll have to choose that class at character creation and stick to your decision.

    To properly roleplay your character you need to be able to add a bio/description to your right click menu. like this:

    HDYSB4N.jpg

    That's a different idea to what I'm suggesting but that also sounds interesting. I wanted to keep the bank in because usually in the permadeath games I play there's something that carries over. Soul Level in Wizardry Online, Bank in PoE, unlocked upgrades in all of the rogue-likes (and sometimes a currency you can spend before your next run), etc. I haven't played any MUDs before. Any you recommend?

    EDIT: Also I figured expermenting could be done in the regular servers since it would be the same content
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,845
    Posts: 790
    Member
    You guys want to shout down OP into silence. Judging from his posting style that ain't gonna happen lol. I think you'll just have to get used to people having a thread about something you don't like.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 15,460
    Posts: 3,371
    Member
    People are just talking in circles now. How about attaching a poll. At the end of the day, Nexon will only act if folks really want it instead basing their business decision on the opinion of whomever posts last.
    You guys want to shout down OP into silence. Judging from his posting style that ain't gonna happen lol. I think you'll just have to get used to people having a thread about something you don't like.

    Don't forget the first and only rule of internet discussion: what is said is irrelevant, all that matters is who posts last. By posting last you have answered. By answering you have refuted all that came before. Until another post comes along your argument is proven.

    Faybal
  • ChoCho
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,575
    Posts: 163
    Member
    Cho wrote: »
    G
    Cho wrote: »
    Cho wrote: »
    Leinei wrote: »
    Cho wrote: »
    Pick up EVERYTHING > Sell to NPC > do PTJ > do Commerce > Run from bandits if it's too much to handle. Eventually you're in Dunbarton crafting with a party that says B>Finest Leathers. You may NEVER see things like the Soluna Blade in a permadeath server but if someone has it, you know they went through a lot to get it.

    First of all, plenty of people do that. It is not a feasible idea with how you have it set up. Your server would be emptier than the pvp arenas.

    Have you ever ranked Magic Craft, Blacksmithing or Engineering? Those skills are beasts to rank, master and dan in general. You're not going to have crafters.

    Is people not crafting really the weak pillar of my idea? I believe people would craft. (We could go back and forth forever on this.) You're not explaining how it's not feasible. Yes, those specific life skills are incredibly tedious but if no one wants to max out those skills, the server simply won't have access to items crafters of that level could make.

    -Everyone doesn't need to be able to max out every single skills.
    -Doing that would be incredibly challenging
    -The server doesn't need R1 Dan 3 Crafters
    -If someone DID make it to R1 Dan 3, maybe they should leave the gathering to combat oriented players/ be escorted if they really want to Hillwen mine or gather shyllien.

    Like I've said a lot earlier, this would be a different experience. Familiar yet different. Thinking about a things from a normal server perspective might not work. In a normal server players might ram their against a roadblock until it breaks but on a hardcore server you would have to think, be cautious, not be greedy, and it would be optional. Being social would be valuable. Guilds would be valuable. Party play would be valuable.

    You seem to be missing a crucial point that everyone else (me included) is painfully aware of.

    I'm gauging whether to expend the effort to help explain it, or not.

    Crafting is just ONE of the weak points of your idea.

    Consider one of the problems that plague many games; lag spikes. What if you were to die simply because a massive lag spike decided to hit you at the worst opportunity? Good luck finding someone who wants to try this idea again after that.

    And there are also skills designed to kill you in one hit if you miss the timing (ex; Talvish's Judgement Blade Burst skill thingy; he also likes to make it so you often are unable to defend against it.)

    The issue boils down to poor programming. No amount of "strategy" or "preparation" can overcome poor programming.

    I thought you would say something crucial lol. I'll paste what I typed earlier:

    If you're on the Permadeath server you would know the rules. You die, and use the items in your bank to start over. This "I worked so hard on my character and now I died" situation would mostly be your fault. Don't play on the Permadeath server when your ISP is giving you lag spikes. Don't play on the Permadeath server on wifi unless you're that gutsy. It's the fun of a permadeath server to see how far you can go.

    I'll add: Path of Exile is my only example of a Permadeath Server aside from the now shutdown Wizardry Online so I'll be referencing it again. In PoE if you lag and die, you still lose the character. It happens. Your friends can help you start over. If you don't have any, your bank can help you start over. It would work the same way. If you're thinking "What if I'm level 30000 with R1 everything and I died" My response would be, "Wow dude congrats, you lived for 30000 and didn't die. Sucks that you died. Better luck next time."

    For things like Talvish's 1 hit kill which is probably from G21 or G22 (I haven't gotten around to that yet, don't appreciate the spoilers) For a player to take on G21 or G22 knowing there's something that can oneshot you would be really risky so it's up to you whether you want to risk. If you're doing G21 or G22 for the first time on a hardcore server then my question would be "why???"

    You still miss the bare minimum; programming.

    I know nothing of "Path of Exile", and i'm not going to pretend like I do. I know that trying to compare the two is like comparing apples to oranges, though.

    You still don't understand the problem with lag, and if you really think what's left of this playerbase could be patient in the scenarios you have provided, then you clearly have not played long at all.

    As for the spoilers, I'm going to just say that with a topic like this, you should expect people bringing up specific parts of the game, like a part of the storyline you have not yet reached.
    You know nothing about PoE. You would also know nothing about the comparison. I'm not asking your to download and play the game but I left context. Good Luck.

    Lag isn't as bad as it used to be coming from someone not in Cali where it's lagless.

    Not sure what you mean by programming but as much as the devs are making new events, I'm sure they can change the Wait for Rescue button into a Restart button.

    I'm not going to bother with PoE. tbh, from the pictures I've seen, I can already tell it'll be a crapshow.

    And "lag isn't as bad as it used to be" isn't an excuse for lag. Lag can still happen, and punishing players for something out of their control that shouldn't happen in the first place is utter crap. Trying to blame all lag on the player just means you can't form a coherent defense, so you throw a generic excuse in, hoping it saves your ass (by the way, it didn't.).

    And you really have no clue how difficult programming is. "Changing the Wait for Rescue" to "Restart" is not something they're going to waste time with.

    I think if this idea keeps getting refined as we go along and if others are willing to contribute, and compromises made it could be a decent idea. In the current raw state, it has been rejected by a fair number.

    It would be, if the OP didn't have his head so far up his ***.

    If lag exists on Mabi, in any capacity, this won't work for you. You're entitled to your opinion but that's incredibly unreasonable in my own opinion.
    And you really have no clue how difficult programming is. "Changing the Wait for Rescue" to "Restart" is not something they're going to waste time with.

    "Oh my god, you don't even know about this thing that I know about! How dumb of you not to know how to program a game before you decide to leave a suggestion on a forum for a game! Bad!"
    You seem to be missing a crucial point that everyone else (me included) is painfully aware of.

    I'm gauging whether to expend the effort to help explain it, or not.

    I clarify things that you or anyone else seem to be misunderstand about what I was envisioning with this suggestion meanwhile you keep wanting to play this game where you make an empty criticism, say something vague, and wait for me to ask what you mean so you can spew something out that's been already discussed.

    I think you've hit rock bottom here. I'd be surprised if you could bring up anything deeper and more critical than "It just won't work, think of the money, think of the gameplay, no one will like it". Especially now that you're posting stuff like this:
    It would be, if the OP didn't have his head so far up his ***.

    I'm open to criticisms on how to make my suggestion work. I'm free to disagree with ideas that I think would change too much of my suggestion. I've posted ideas that were offered to the OP. I've read every post minus Faybal's last little rant. Very little has been contributed. You know this.
  • ChoCho
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,575
    Posts: 163
    Member
    edited January 12, 2019
    Helsa wrote: »
    People are just talking in circles now. How about attaching a poll. At the end of the day, Nexon will only act if folks really want it instead basing their business decision on the opinion of whomever posts last.
    You guys want to shout down OP into silence. Judging from his posting style that ain't gonna happen lol. I think you'll just have to get used to people having a thread about something you don't like.

    Don't forget the first and only rule of internet discussion: what is said is irrelevant, all that matters is who posts last. By posting last you have answered. By answering you have refuted all that came before. Until another post comes along your argument is proven.

    I'm legit just wanting people to pitch some ideas since they seem to be so infatuated with my post. Increased rates and talk about locking in talents have been nice but that's about it so far. Didn't really like the idea of revivals in the Cash Shop since that would be extremely pay to win.

    I never wanted to attach a pole because I see the same posters on the forum all the time. Several of which have even posted here. I don't trust that the forum isn't just a loud minority. Besides I want Nexon or DevCat to decide, not armchair game devs. I make a poll, everyone who's been frequenting votes No and then the remaining posts are just trolls asking for thread locks and memes.

    I don't look at my thread for a few hours and people are talking about me, the OP, in the 3rd person, passive agressively, rather than replying to me directly, and being rude. There's no way I'd poll on the forums.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 15,460
    Posts: 3,371
    Member
    That's okay I've got it covered here.