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Buff Metallurgy

AmarazAmaraz
Mabinogi Rep: 2,085
Posts: 179
Member
in Feedback and Suggestions
We have new gems and new spirit weapons who need those gems. Metallurgy wasn't really needed before for much, but now we do need gems and the skill is outdated, inefficient and mundane. I want to able to find 10cm gems at least a few times of farming the skill, I feel like that's a small thing to ask for. Loved that they uncapped alot of life skills last year, but let's keep that train going and improving the game :)
  1. Buff Metallurgy13 votes
    1. Yes
       92% (12 votes)
    2. No
       8% (1 vote)

Comments

  • TimefallTimefall
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,435
    Posts: 134
    Member
    There is already a very powerful reforge for Metallurgy which gives more fragments per gather. However, it would be nice to see something like a "Metallurgy Gem Size" reforge.

    On a similar note, we NEED 'repeat crafting' or batch crafting for Metal Conversion (and other dry-oven skills). It's useless as long as you have to convert one ore at a time. Also, a "Metal Conversion Gem Size" reforge to match the proposed metallurgy one. ^_^
    Something like, put 20 ore fragments in, play minigame once, and it produces 10 ore fragments with a chance to get 1 gem.
    Amaraz
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,525
    Posts: 6,903
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    edited May 5, 2020
    I would prefer if gem size would increase depending on how high your rank is. We shouldn't encourage Nexon with more ideas on how to make this game even more P2W with reforges.
    IyasenuAmarazShiro42Twelie
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,970
    Posts: 3,861
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    Although, even after the 50 ore per pile enhancement to pickaxeable ores, metallurgy is still better than mining, nonetheless the typical haul of gems from it is quite laughable were it not so sad. Greta seems to be on to a nice idea there. Go with throttle up.
  • TimefallTimefall
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,435
    Posts: 134
    Member
    Greta wrote: »
    I would prefer if gem size would increase depending on how high your rank is. We shouldn't encourage Nexon with more ideas on how to make this game even more P2W with reforges.

    Reforges are readily available from other players. It's no different than if an NPC sold them for 1.5m. You're confusing "high gold cost" with "pay to win".
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,525
    Posts: 6,903
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    edited May 5, 2020
    Timefall wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    I would prefer if gem size would increase depending on how high your rank is. We shouldn't encourage Nexon with more ideas on how to make this game even more P2W with reforges.

    Reforges are readily available from other players. It's no different than if an NPC sold them for 1.5m. You're confusing "high gold cost" with "pay to win".

    Still p2w because you pay more with gold on the same amount what was paid with real cash. Not everyone are whales and has power/time to farm gold on this game. Really discouraging. Skills should be more rewarding because of effort you put into training them, enough with these mindless farms and reforge filled content.
  • TimefallTimefall
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,435
    Posts: 134
    Member
    It doesn't take much time to get large amounts of gold. If you can't manage it in a few hours a week, it's not because the game's inherently unplayable. You just aren't very good at it. o.o
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,525
    Posts: 6,903
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    edited May 5, 2020
    Timefall wrote: »
    It doesn't take much time to get large amounts of gold. If you can't manage it in a few hours a week, it's not because the game's inherently unplayable. You just aren't very good at it. o.o

    Reforges are gambling. I don't find 24/7 SM spam just for crappy rolls as a good way to spend my time and money away. There's a lot of things i got to do besides that. I don't understand how can you support reforges instead of actual skill training. Do you like to have better advantage than others? Or you have too much time or/and money? Either way, i hope that's not the case with everyone.
  • TimefallTimefall
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,435
    Posts: 134
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    edited May 5, 2020
    Greta wrote: »
    24/7 SM spam

    This proves my point. If you're getting all your gold from shadow missions, I can understand why you're frustrated. Try some other things. Making gold is easy. You could be buying hundreds of reforges a week without needing real money if you tried. I don't have too much time or money, and I don't enjoy any advantage over others. I earn my gold within the game, using far less time and effort than others. On a completely equal playing field, I'm able to easily reach my goals, where others cannot.

    And to be clear, earning gold in this game IS skill training. The more gold you're capable of earning, the better at Mabinogi you are, and the less gold, the worse at Mabinogi you are. That's the very nature of this game. It's the entire core of Mabinogi. Anyone can stand around clicking on foxes for a few days. Why should that be a measure of ability?
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,970
    Posts: 3,861
    Member
    Timefall wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    24/7 SM spam

    This proves my point. If you're getting all your gold from shadow missions, I can understand why you're frustrated. Try some other things. Making gold is easy. You could be buying hundreds of reforges a week without needing real money if you tried. I don't have too much time or money, and I don't enjoy any advantage over others. I earn my gold within the game, using far less time and effort than others. On a completely equal playing field, I'm able to easily reach my goals, where others cannot.

    And to be clear, earning gold in this game IS skill training. The more gold you're capable of earning, the better at Mabinogi you are, and the less gold, the worse at Mabinogi you are. That's the very nature of this game. It's the entire core of Mabinogi. Anyone can stand around clicking on foxes for a few days. Why should that be a measure of ability?

    I'm keen to find out; how do YOU earn gold in this game?
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,050
    Posts: 2,762
    Member
    edited May 5, 2020
    ...I also want Partners to double buff Metallurgy, alongside maybe a success rate buff.

    Have Unknown Ore fragments be an extra drop, and not solely a product of failure. Otherwise, have different areas for Metallurgy as we did with Tory Ravine.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,970
    Posts: 3,861
    Member
    ...I also want Partners to double buff Metallurgy, alongside maybe a success rate buff.

    Have Unknown Ore fragments be an extra drop, and not solely a product of failure. Otherwise, have different areas for Metallurgy as we did with Tory Ravine.

    Good idea's there Blissy-boo. Although, unknowns are fails, at least they can be converted directly to iron ingots.
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,945
    Posts: 678
    Member
    I am just going to take a wild guess that he's most-likely «wheelin' & dealin'» since that also applies to off-line so-called $$$-making. You won't become a millionaire working at a per-hour-rate/wage «J.O.B.» (Just-Over-Broke) but if you what to sell, Sell, SELL, and whom to sell, Sell, SELL to, depending on your ability to «Supply the Market» consistently. I have noticed that some products I used to sell regularly at a «market-price» ended up dropping in its normal «market» prices (possibly because I mentioned what they were) so I assume that other people must have «gotten in on the action» for their «slice of the pie» but demands can fluctuate depending on what the population may be trying to work on or are farming during any particular given time-period.

    Probably the easiest way I have ever obtained «quick gold» is simply from selling the good rewards that come from Events... especially given how a lot of stuff that people are actually willing to pay «Top Gold» for is often reward from Event-Boxes/etc. Someone mentioned in another thread about how it's more cost-efficient to just sell Gems & feed our Spirit-Weapons with Rolling Pins each week... I can only take a wild guess that some people probably run a periodic Baltane-Mission, collect all those gems, list them for sale, profit, etc. The fastest-selling products tend to be consumable products (Holy Waters in particular for which the latest market-price that I noted was being around 60K/Stack) followed by high-end/max-roll Max-Damage Tokens/Totems (according to my own experiences/records anyway).
    Helsa wrote: »
    Timefall wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    24/7 SM spam

    This proves my point. If you're getting all your gold from shadow missions, I can understand why you're frustrated. Try some other things. Making gold is easy. You could be buying hundreds of reforges a week without needing real money if you tried. I don't have too much time or money, and I don't enjoy any advantage over others. I earn my gold within the game, using far less time and effort than others. On a completely equal playing field, I'm able to easily reach my goals, where others cannot.

    And to be clear, earning gold in this game IS skill training. The more gold you're capable of earning, the better at Mabinogi you are, and the less gold, the worse at Mabinogi you are. That's the very nature of this game. It's the entire core of Mabinogi. Anyone can stand around clicking on foxes for a few days. Why should that be a measure of ability?
    I'm keen to find out; how do YOU earn gold in this game?
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,970
    Posts: 3,861
    Member
    edited May 6, 2020
    Habimaru wrote: »
    I am just going to take a wild guess that he's most-likely «wheelin' & dealin'» since that also applies to off-line so-called $$$-making. You won't become a millionaire working at a per-hour-rate/wage «J.O.B.» (Just-Over-Broke) but if you what to sell, Sell, SELL, and whom to sell, Sell, SELL to, depending on your ability to «Supply the Market» consistently. I have noticed that some products I used to sell regularly at a «market-price» ended up dropping in its normal «market» prices (possibly because I mentioned what they were) so I assume that other people must have «gotten in on the action» for their «slice of the pie» but demands can fluctuate depending on what the population may be trying to work on or are farming during any particular given time-period.

    Probably the easiest way I have ever obtained «quick gold» is simply from selling the good rewards that come from Events... especially given how a lot of stuff that people are actually willing to pay «Top Gold» for is often reward from Event-Boxes/etc. Someone mentioned in another thread about how it's more cost-efficient to just sell Gems & feed our Spirit-Weapons with Rolling Pins each week... I can only take a wild guess that some people probably run a periodic Baltane-Mission, collect all those gems, list them for sale, profit, etc. The fastest-selling products tend to be consumable products (Holy Waters in particular for which the latest market-price that I noted was being around 60K/Stack) followed by high-end/max-roll Max-Damage Tokens/Totems (according to my own experiences/records anyway).
    Helsa wrote: »
    Timefall wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    24/7 SM spam

    This proves my point. If you're getting all your gold from shadow missions, I can understand why you're frustrated. Try some other things. Making gold is easy. You could be buying hundreds of reforges a week without needing real money if you tried. I don't have too much time or money, and I don't enjoy any advantage over others. I earn my gold within the game, using far less time and effort than others. On a completely equal playing field, I'm able to easily reach my goals, where others cannot.

    And to be clear, earning gold in this game IS skill training. The more gold you're capable of earning, the better at Mabinogi you are, and the less gold, the worse at Mabinogi you are. That's the very nature of this game. It's the entire core of Mabinogi. Anyone can stand around clicking on foxes for a few days. Why should that be a measure of ability?
    I'm keen to find out; how do YOU earn gold in this game?

    Sure, but someone who is just talking might say the same thing. They suggested that Greta is not good at the game. Maybe they're right, maybe they're not, but now that you've answered for them, we can't possibly know if they are a hypocrite.
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,525
    Posts: 6,903
    Member
    edited May 6, 2020
    Helsa wrote: »
    Habimaru wrote: »
    I am just going to take a wild guess that he's most-likely «wheelin' & dealin'» since that also applies to off-line so-called $$$-making. You won't become a millionaire working at a per-hour-rate/wage «J.O.B.» (Just-Over-Broke) but if you what to sell, Sell, SELL, and whom to sell, Sell, SELL to, depending on your ability to «Supply the Market» consistently. I have noticed that some products I used to sell regularly at a «market-price» ended up dropping in its normal «market» prices (possibly because I mentioned what they were) so I assume that other people must have «gotten in on the action» for their «slice of the pie» but demands can fluctuate depending on what the population may be trying to work on or are farming during any particular given time-period.

    Probably the easiest way I have ever obtained «quick gold» is simply from selling the good rewards that come from Events... especially given how a lot of stuff that people are actually willing to pay «Top Gold» for is often reward from Event-Boxes/etc. Someone mentioned in another thread about how it's more cost-efficient to just sell Gems & feed our Spirit-Weapons with Rolling Pins each week... I can only take a wild guess that some people probably run a periodic Baltane-Mission, collect all those gems, list them for sale, profit, etc. The fastest-selling products tend to be consumable products (Holy Waters in particular for which the latest market-price that I noted was being around 60K/Stack) followed by high-end/max-roll Max-Damage Tokens/Totems (according to my own experiences/records anyway).
    Helsa wrote: »
    Timefall wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    24/7 SM spam

    This proves my point. If you're getting all your gold from shadow missions, I can understand why you're frustrated. Try some other things. Making gold is easy. You could be buying hundreds of reforges a week without needing real money if you tried. I don't have too much time or money, and I don't enjoy any advantage over others. I earn my gold within the game, using far less time and effort than others. On a completely equal playing field, I'm able to easily reach my goals, where others cannot.

    And to be clear, earning gold in this game IS skill training. The more gold you're capable of earning, the better at Mabinogi you are, and the less gold, the worse at Mabinogi you are. That's the very nature of this game. It's the entire core of Mabinogi. Anyone can stand around clicking on foxes for a few days. Why should that be a measure of ability?
    I'm keen to find out; how do YOU earn gold in this game?

    Sure, but someone who is just talking might say the same thing. They suggested that Greta is not good at the game. Maybe they're right, maybe they're not, but now that you've answered for them, we can't possibly know if they are a hypocrite.

    I really hate when people tell that to git gu at something awfully boring as farming gold... And on top of it, support reforges instead of actually making skill somewhat useful and fun to everyone.
  • TimefallTimefall
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,435
    Posts: 134
    Member
    edited May 6, 2020
    To answer for myself, the bulk of my gold comes from life skills. You said you wanted skills to affect what a player can do? Well, ranking and properly using almost any life skill (with a few exceptions) can provide a player with huge gold income, no grinding/farming required (excluding the grind needed to rank the skill initially). I won't go into details as to which crafted items I sell, because as Habimaru mentioned, people will all jump in on the action, and the prices will fall. I will say, that I actively use over a dozen life skills to make large profits. I generally rotate from one to the next as demand rises and falls. Relying on a single life skill for income wouldn't work once the market becomes saturated with products.
    Greta wrote: »
    I really hate when people tell that to git gu at something awfully boring as farming gold... And on top of it, support reforges instead of actually making skill somewhat useful and fun to everyone.

    I've never suggested players 'farm' gold using repetitive, grindy, or boring methods. And, reforge effects provide crazy effects far beyond what skill ranks give. Even if they rebuilt metallurgy to make it better, I doubt the revamped rank 1 would come anywhere close to what the current reforge does. I'm not in support of reforges being a cash shop/event only thing, and I'm not a fan of the randomness they involve. The effects, however, are far far more enjoyable than any skill rank bonus. Reforges also allow customization by forcing players to choose which effects they use. If you incorporate that into skill ranks, everyone will have the exact same skills/effects/abilities for all skills. What's needed to prevent that is some sort of skill branching option, where taking one bonus would make the other unavailable. (Resets could undo the choice when the skill deranks) As an example, at some rank, Metallurgy could have a player choose between higher success rate, more ores per gather, or larger/more gems.
  • AmarazAmaraz
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,085
    Posts: 179
    Member
    edited May 7, 2020
    Helsa wrote: »
    Timefall wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    24/7 SM spam

    This proves my point. If you're getting all your gold from shadow missions, I can understand why you're frustrated. Try some other things. Making gold is easy. You could be buying hundreds of reforges a week without needing real money if you tried. I don't have too much time or money, and I don't enjoy any advantage over others. I earn my gold within the game, using far less time and effort than others. On a completely equal playing field, I'm able to easily reach my goals, where others cannot.

    And to be clear, earning gold in this game IS skill training. The more gold you're capable of earning, the better at Mabinogi you are, and the less gold, the worse at Mabinogi you are. That's the very nature of this game. It's the entire core of Mabinogi. Anyone can stand around clicking on foxes for a few days. Why should that be a measure of ability?

    I'm keen to find out; how do YOU earn gold in this game?

    hmm
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,300
    Posts: 7,835
    Member
    edited May 7, 2020
    First, we need more and new items for crafting that could use up all the excess ore fragments we get.
    Two, since ore fragments are 1x1 in inventory space, it should only be 1/4th of the value of mined ore. That way there would be more uses for mining, but those keen on space can continue with metallurgy. But ore fragments and ore should not be a 1 to 1 ratio. Also, increase max stack of fragments to 50 or 100.
    Three, Add gems to be available in mining. A lot of gems are obtained by mining. There's no reason why Bangor or Hillwen couldn't be producing gems as well.
    Four, also allow gems to be a crafting material, not just an upgrade material or ego food.

    (This is all part of my elaborate proposals from time to time to create a more player reliant economy and also help improve life skills)
    Amaraz
  • AmarazAmaraz
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,085
    Posts: 179
    Member
    First, we need more and new items for crafting that could use up all the excess ore fragments we get.
    Two, since ore fragments are 1x1 in inventory space, it should only be 1/4th of the value of mined ore. That way there would be more uses for mining, but those keen on space can continue with metallurgy. But ore fragments and ore should not be a 1 to 1 ratio. Also, increase max stack of fragments to 50 or 100.
    Three, Add gems to be available in mining. A lot of gems are obtained by mining. There's no reason why Bangor or Hillwen couldn't be producing gems as well.
    Four, also allow gems to be a crafting material, not just an upgrade material or ego food.

    (This is all part of my elaborate proposals from time to time to create a more player reliant economy and also help improve life skills)

    Great ideas
  • AmarazAmaraz
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,085
    Posts: 179
    Member
    Refreshing this thread again!
  • KyomikuKyomiku
    Mabinogi Rep: 765
    Posts: 15
    Member
    I agree, metallurgy needs a buff; or simply, add new sites with higher chances at getting the new gems. In the meantime though, if people actually invested time into their squires, they could easily be running paradise of gems in Alban Training Grounds for a bunch