[NEW MILLETIANS] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the
Nexon Forums Code of Conduct. You have to register before you can post, so you can log in or create a forum name above to proceed. Thank you for your visit!
Do something about alt-abuse
Just one example of many of the state of the game and what seems to be a trend toward decay. I can't even blame the players that are doing this, as it is nearing a requirement to be competitive in leveling or getting items from events. The most recent event that promoted this type of behavior was the attendance event where a tradable rebirth potion was rewarded. I haven't talked to anyone that enjoys walking into event areas that are littered with "alts", "cousins", "bots", or whatever you want to call these creations that exist for event purposes, or dungeon spamming. The reward requirement in dungeons was a good start, but it doesn't do anything to combat event abuse.
They're not even hard to spot if GMs/CMs were on walking the game. Going into Dunbarton bank to 20 naked giants that are rotated out just isn't cool. My blacklist is now the majority of my friends list just to filter out these accounts littering areas.
To be clear, I'm not mad or upset that people do this, I understand why. Even by the TOS if they are using the account legitimately to play and not abuse glitches, events, or rewards, then they're good to have them. I'm also not upset to see a large thriving community. But this isn't that.
Comments
Arguably it comes from the need to modify the game to run multiple clients within one OS.
It seems that Nexon as a whole has changed their TOS on this matter fairly significantly matter.
What I feels is for my argument against these accounts: I would argue that this is a design flaw - being able to trade an item of significant value with little work required. Though, it may be the intent to show artificially inflated numbers in terms of player base to stakeholders. I realize by shining light on this it goes against my want to play Mabi in some regard - lower number = more risk of being cancelled.
All the accounts moved in unison to the altar, and all moved at the same time to what appeared to be movement commands. Unless they're award winning Japanese synchronized walkers, I don't know how they would have that level of coordination.
Questionable: Only Nexon would know if this rule was followed for these accounts.
Regardless - I doubt that Nexon will respond in any meaningful way, but this fulfilled my need to complain about it.
Honestly, you should. They're doing this to get an advantage over legitimate players while actively making the game look less appealing.
If everyone was doing it, it would be the norm and they would cheat the system in other ways until everyone is just hacking.
Nexon Korea said they were trying to fix the multiclienting problem in their region back in 2021 saying they were going to limit it until eventually banning it. As far as you can tell with google translate, they wanted to create an environment where people wouldn't want to multiclient but for some reason, they decided to make smoldering threads tradeable and obtainable by characters that don't even have Arcana unlocked so maybe they fixed it over there.
Their difference is that it's allowed without using 3rd party programs apparently. I doubt NA staff doesn't know about the alt abuse here. Thinking optimistically, they probably just don't want to bring attention to it because they can't do anything about it. I just don't understand why they can't just search for the mods that allow it on google and send it to KR so they can blacklist it on the anti-cheat or something. It's not a well kept secret.
to me, multiple computers being used for alts and one machine running multiple alts is practically the same thing.. i don't know why using the same computer is such a big taboo, is it something to do with legal stuff? worst case scenario, they could allow it with a limit on how many can be on the same machine, like 3 or smthin
i dont use them at all cuz i dont wanna be banned anytime soon, but the whole discourse around the issue confuses me
While I may agree with
There is still a difference and it comes down to method and not resources.
Though I do think it does need to be allowed though to use virtual machines since not everyone is going to have multiple computers nor should have to buy multiple computers for a game. And I say this because this game pretty much will push you into having mule accounts because how much crap there is that will go into your inventory, and so mule accounts help keep things organized.
I should have been more clear, I can't blame all the players that are doing it, as there are a certain number of them that do it to remain competitive. Nexon is laying the ground work that this is acceptable behavior. At that point complaining about being disadvantaged by not doing it is wasted time (kind of like this thread).
Yes, this is correct. However, the current TOS allows for a single person to create
This is the issue - the TOS allows a single person to hold more than 1 account, without usage limitation, so long as they do not create more than 1 per day, and no more than 5 per 30 days. It's such an odd choice. Most EULA/TOS limit account creation to 1 account per person (not residence). I understand that there is difficulty in enforcing this, however catching it should not be difficult any longer.
It's not the same thing because one involves using third party software while the other involves third party hardware. Playing the game requires third party hardware anyway while with third party software they have no control over it other than to ban it outright. If two sessions come from the same computer then that is a single person. Multiple computers could be multiple people. Chasing down every instance and confirming it's legitimacy would mean a cost to Nexon NA that would probably make maintaining Mabinogi non-economic.
As I noted earlier. Whereas multiple sessions from the same computer could reasonably be assumed to be a single user. From multiple computers you can't tell how many users are involved. What if someone goes to the public library to make their account? What if a friend brings their laptop for a sleepover and plays Mabinogi at their friends house? What if you have a power failure and your router IP resets? Sussing this out and maintaining a constant vigilance will cost Nexon and will cut into their profits. Maybe, Mabinogi could still be profitable but would Nexon meet it's opportunity cost? That is doubtful. There is also an enormous amount of legacy multiple accounts, and why not it's not against the rules. Most folks with multiple accounts use them for storage rather than to run bots and so on. If they log in to a message saying "which ever account you log into will be saved the rest will be deleted"? Well, what might that do to the size of the player base? The actual complaint here is that folks have many simultaneous active sessions, not just two. If they're doing it with computers then how many folks can afford that? Multi-clienting from a single computer would be available to everyone; perhaps this is why its banned? So if they can sus out who is multi-clienting, and they can, just ask our favourite forum troll Pan, then they ARE addressing the problem. If it's not happening fast enough, then it's too expensive to work quicker. You also have the classic dilemma in law enforcement at play too.
So, what to do? Report suspected cases and let Nexon figure it out. Only don't report them publicly.
Remain competitive against who? Other multiclienters? What do you mean by this? What is Nexon doing that is "laying the ground work" to make this acceptable? I think multiclienters are taking advantage of this: In every one of these multi-boxer, botter callout threads, people always show up to defend it using the idea that if Nexon does anything, they might ban innocent players. It just seems you're being very light with the people cheating the system as if Nexon gave them no other option but to litter every dungeon, sm, and event with alts.
I'm not defending botting though. I'm defending that house holds can have multiple players in them and Nexon can't tell the difference. I'm defending that Nexon does allow for multiple accounts and pointing out that most people use them for storage rather than botting. As for the policing dilemma, I guess some people feel that its better to get all the bad guys at the price of some innocents but not everyone agrees with that and I pointed out that that will have consequences too.
If you want to stop botting then just keep reporting them to Nexon but don't do it publicly.
Sorry I misworded that. I just meant that points similar to yours come up as a catch-22 that ends up ending the discussion.
Once you do that you can sell gold and profit off the gold sale and the item sale.
This is aside from the other damage that just having them all over does to the community to incoming players (they exist, I swear they aren't just mythical creatures).
They're laying the ground work that this acceptable by not taking action against it. That simple.
Honestly, from just this it's clear that you're missing the point. The fact that you can fill out the form for an account with your info, and not make up names or aliases is part of the problem. With the current ToS it doesn't matter if it is 16 people on 16 computers or 1 person on 16 computers. In which case, does virtualizing those computers count? It seems like they don't care about that anymore as there is no check for VMs anymore. This could be to allow people on Mac/Linux to play as well, but I am doubtful. Nexon has other games where they outright block launching on virtual machines, and where they have no problem banning for abuse of multiple accounts. It isn't costly to identify abuse, there are some telltale signs.
Do you have 3 accounts your ruin Tech missions with that are all under level 1000? Do they all connect from the same location? Do they always drop their key for you? Do you stream this abuse (there is a Mabi player that does)? Has a Community Manager been in that stream and not called out the blatant mods and abuse?
Even when they don't broadcast it, identifying non-progressing players that do nothing but events isn't terribly difficult. I know you might not feel like you're defending multi-clienting, but this excuse is easy to shut down, but you go through many jumps to try to make a defense.
Also... If you're using multiple accounts for storage, that's still not acceptable. Space constraints are intentional, and within Mabi you can have more than enough space with pet inventories bank tabs and bags....
I had assumed you meant that the ability for players to make multiple accounts conveys extra utility compared to those that only use one account; have I got that wrong?
It's not against the rules to have multiple accounts so why the need for aliases?
Would 16 people with 16 computers doing the same thing as 1 person with 16 computers be a problem? I'm gonna guess no. So, this is an issue of degree rather than kind. Where to draw the line is a matter of opinion; Nexon draws it at multi-clienting. Multi-clienting involves third-party software the other methods do not. Whereas from a superficial utility point of view it seems the same, from an execution point of view it is not.
People are getting banned for multi-clienting all the time, however, someone has to report them first, but not do so publicly.
Porting is not a trivial process unless you want the game written in JAVA. The cost to benefit for Nexon here is probably something they've already made up their mind about.
If you say so. Mabinogi is an old game. Maybe this is a carry over from a time when Nexon didn't have such policy. Since, Mabinogi is so old you have legacy multiple accounts and Nexon has probably done a cost benefit analysis of ending that and decided against it. Corporations are inherently conservative in their decision making.
I would strongly advise you not to go with that argument. I understand that you have a passion about botting and that you feel obligated to counter any point that isn't supportive in a wholesale way. The thing is, nearly everyone would be with you on the issue of botting. Here though, you would be adversely affecting many many people who don't bot; there are a LOT of legacy multiple accounts. If your idea to handle botting is going to effect them, when they aren't botting, well, that's just bad politics.
Fugitaboutit. Many issues have auxilliary effects & consequences and a lot of discussion is not necessarily in opposition but is concerned with such effects.
not to mention them going after people who use mods, as not all mods are made to be vicious.. i've met quite a few people who use it for simple QoL things
sooner or later, the need of them will disappear anyway, since KR is slowly yet surely adding these features into the game itself
Based on the current terms of service both are allowed. But there is a difference. In one case a single player is getting 16 times the reward per time invested.
Based on the day in day out, and the number of people I've seen report the bots that stand outside Tail/Tara alters, as well as the three dead bots in Tech on Ch5/6 for the past couple weeks, and the 14-15 alts that are piled outside Avon theater, this is not the case. I've had people ask me to report them along with them, but realistically there is no point as these complaints are falling on deaf ears.
Tell me you've not really been around, without telling me you've not really been around. When Themida was added back during G11, on of the largest complaints to hit the technical support section was that it broke the ability to use Parallels on Mac to play the game as it detected emulation. Until 2017 this was a problem for people in the Linux community as it would detect any major VM (QEmu, VMWare, VBox...) and state that the game could not be played from a VM and close. This error was mostly superficial as many players in those communities used mods to get around the pop-up and the game would run fine afterwords. However, that still was a direct violation of the TOS.
Nexon removing this check means that it no longer requires modification of the client to launch in a virtual machine, which is a large opportunity to run multiple instances from one physical set of hardware, greatly reducing the cost you're asserting as a requirement for multiple accounts. It would not take much to spin up 32 Mabinogi instances on a $200-$250 retired enterprise server from mid 2010s, as for botting frame rate would not be a consideration.
Some real back of the envelope math here for this for the attendance event:
Tradable rebirth potion required 36 minutes a day for 9 days (out of 15 total)
1440 minutes a day - So a potential of 40 accounts per instance per day, give up for time lost changing the account... So 39
39 accounts per instance at 32 instances is 1248 rebirth potions... Keep or sell...
Say sell? Lets go with the deflated 2M per pot, so 2,496,000,000 gold off just that botting instance.
Keep? Level 60 per birth would still result in ~75k levels, putting this person in the top percentages of this game level-wise.
But given your logic, and reasoning that we should just take a precaution and ignore this obvious abuse because it could just be people playing from a library, or a friends house, or whatever made up excuse that you have to defend this behavior at this point.
I'm not asking for your advice. Frankly, you seem very confused on the whole subject as is. This is circumventing intended game limitations because it meets your criteria of a want. Instead of invest money on more character cards, you're gaining access to free character cards by creating an alternate account. To add to this, you're creating an alternate account that must be able to concurrently log on during the time your main account is on to trade items between reliably. This is a problem.
Based purely on your defense of this practice, it seems that either you take part of it, or are supporting the loopholes that allow others to take part in it.
So far, other than you saying "I'm not defending them" every other thing that you have said has been in defense of botting in this game. I don't care if you hold the same opinion as I do, and I don't care if you want to bot. I made that pretty clear early on, but down playing it for
Sticking with the idiom "If the shoe fits"
Newbie accounts being restricted from events and content until certain months, buy a premium item, have friends, finish Chapters, and/or Talent Levels. Sorry, you can't run this dungeon/mission event with a limited account.
Timeframe Restriction? Probably add another restriction.
Buying Premium Item? Let it be equal to 10 USD. This proves this user is a legit user. Not getting technical with the Card number being the same on multiple accounts being flagged.
Have Friends? Likely users with actual activity. Anyone caught with bot as a friend should be under watch. Heck, being a guild also should have a GM investigate them.
Finish chapters? Easy to put restriction. Complete Chapter 1 and 2. Then you will unlock the game. Not much people have the patience to run story content.
Talent Levels? Probably more than just Master Talent. How about Grandmaster titles?
I'm sorry newbies. But this is why the expression "Why we can't have nice things" exists.
I compared the mules and the mulers as smugglers- like smugglers, these items are dirty and obtained illegally.
There should be a GM who polices with an Iron Fist but has restraint to not be oppressive. Mules? Kicked. Muler? Flagged and kicked. Still doing more? Tempban. Still muleing? Ban.
I agree with both Timeframe and Game Progression restrictions.
As for banning people who have additional accounts to hold stuff, I don't quite agree with it. While yes it can solve plenty of issues, there are people out there who collect mementos over time (like event items). Next, nexon is often doing things that would help out with inventory by adding bags and increasing how much space they have over time as well as stuff like dressing room being added and updated. This means they acknowledge the need for expanding inventory space as a constant issue. Mule accounts can help alleviate part of this issue. This is why I agree with both Timeframe and Game Progression. You can't just pop out a new account/alt to abuse an event or something, and you have to put in a good bit of time (For Mabi, I would say at minimal the first 3 generations, but feel completion of up to Saga 1 or Saga 2 would be best...unless you make cut-scenes and that unskippable the first time around, heheheh.).
Run Rabbie Phantasm? Mulers get mules instead of people who would want to run it. Just be nice and ask for the drop if someone has it. If they don't give you it, then... you have the blacklist option. And that person's rep is tarnished.
I don't mind using a inventory mule to hold legacy stuff. But don't we have alt characters for such spaces?
Either way, Nexon needs to fix the Drop rates.
Heavily they need to grab other people instead of going alone. Best use of a pass/run is when everyone gets to have fun.
I'm acting as a supplier for my guild so I often have plenty of my inventory (on character, bank, pet, etc) filled with a bunch of materials for one thing or another. That's why I put the mementos on an alt account.
Heavily agree. I've never liked the idea of running a whole dungeon (like crom that can take an hour or more) just to get a loot box. When you tie progression to rng, you make it to where it is the lucky people who get to progress at a steady pace. As for the less lucky, they now have to grind out even more than what it should really take. I myself have less luck than others, though not horrible, and have seen others talk about their averages for one thing or another (like enchant successes). Crom did help fix this problem a little bit by adding the adamantine coins, but it still is such a HEFTY grind due to how many coins you need for one thing or another, and how much you get as a reward (I swear they skimped out on the rewards just so you have to grind longer and longer and longer and longer....oh hey energizer bunny, is nexon your cousin?). I'm fine with a grind, but it shouldn't take a lifetime to get part of what you need.