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Is there an Elf Overhaul coming?

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  • PanPan
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    Elves are literally the best race in the game.
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,580
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    FH and FS are 1v1 skills.
    Besides i don't think that you can do like 120k damage per second with fh compared to fs mag spam.
  • SiodhanSiodhan
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,825
    Posts: 315
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    edited August 19, 2017
    Being able to use magic missile outside of trans at a dura loss, with trans without dura loss.
    Buff its damage because it sucks.
    Make it actually deal damage with a wand/staff equipped and make the damage scale with dex/magic attack depending on what weapon you use magic missile with.

    Give final shot a timer like way of the gun instead of having to unload and reload the skill every single time you need to load a skill because for europeans that's a freaking 6s delay at times. Make it that you don't use dura while it's active. Make it just a tad longer because it's really short. At least as long as final hit.

    Mirage missile is already lovely.


    Increase elf magic balance on magic mastery.
    Give them extra damage and faster charge on a few of the skills, particularly on the bolt spells, where we essentially get no advantage.

    Adjust hide's cooldown depending on the aggro speed of the monster that hit you. If you got hit by something that aggroes very slowly - your fault. If you get hit by 33525023538 monsters that spawn around you and aggro at a delay of literally 0s, it better also let you use it again in 5s or so.

    Allow elves to dual wield axes, but don't buff their damage with them. They do need a disadvantage.

    Implement a cool-looking elf-only light-armor set that acts as a replacement for bohemian in terms of effects.
    Implement an elf-only tribolt wand and elf-only staves which are each minimally better than the celtic ones.

    Implement racial skill for earth magic that deals physical damage, but scales with magic attack.

    Update existing elf-ally enchants and make them more useful, add some more that require elf-only skills that are actually good (both for magic and ranged)

    Lastly, allow giants and elves to marry (if it's not possible already ; I'm not perpetually attempting to marry a giant to find out if it works yet, so you tell me) and allow giants to carry elves on their shoulder.

    ( I really want to suggest allowing mounted archery from the back of a giant, which would be hilarious, but I think that may be op)

    Anyway, I think most of these changes would be balanced. With these changes made, I'd actually opt for keeping elf melee AS IT IS, because we're not meant to be good at it, nor is it supposed to be really easy to learn for us. This should also appease to everyone who wants elves to be good at magic, they will also have a niche (physical spells).
    The rest of the proble mregarding archery is a problem with the game itself, not elves. It's way too reforge and combo card dependant to be easily efficient, as opposed to FH. That's another update entirely.
    DanievictriaSherriKokoroBehelitZeo
  • DanievictriaDanievictria
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,695
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    Things I'd love to see in an Elf Renewal Event:

    1. Let elves use Hide either in battle or a shorter period of time after their last attack/instance of being attacked.
    2. Let elves dual wield daggers and add a few new types of daggers to the game...maybe a couple of types that are elf-only, even.
    3. Add some cool elf-only wands and staves...and maybe an elf-only dagger that counts as a magic weapon.
    4. Reduce the AP cost for elves training windmill. They already don't get as good of a stat boost out of it as humans and giants, but then they pay more AP to be shortchanged too? That's some bull-pudding.
    5. Give elves a race-exclusive offensive spell or two. The archery stuff is all well and good, but not everyone who plays an elf plays their character as an archer. Some of us prefer magic, thank you.
    6. Let elves use magic and archery while hiding. I mean, even if using an attack would immediately take you out of hide mode, let this be!
    7. Three words: Mounted Spell Casting.
    8. Add a true thief/rogue class to the game. This one's kind of the least likely one on the list, but a thief/rogue class that relies on Intelligence and Dexterity would be awesome for elves (I mean, one of their race-exclusive abilities lets them go invisible, so it's like they're built for it). The class would be available to everyone and have abilities like temporarily raising enemy drop rates, swift dagger-based attack skills with low cooldowns that can cause status effects like poison and bleed, and giving you the ability to steal items off of enemies (any item the enemy drops, even rare drops, but only once per enemy) and maybe even commercing players (you get debuffed to the same power level as the commercing player you attack and you can't use pets when going after them, just to keep things fair). Possibly even a skill that gives you a chance of being able to steal from an NPC shop (but if you're caught, you lower your relationship with that NPC and you get banned from their shop for 24 real-life hours). But elves will have the lowest AP costs to level the skills and will get the juiciest stat boosts from leveling the skills.

    Before such an event, I'd like to see darker skin colors introduced for elves. It just needs to be done, no excuses.

    ...But, that's just me aiming way too high again. ^_^

    LOLNO. Hide is OP as is.

    Hide is not OP. In fact, it's kind of weaksauce. It's got a cooldown that's not even indicated on the icon, which often leaves you out of luck when you need it the most...and is too dang long. You can't launch an attack while hiding...all you can use it for is either sneaking past enemies, sneaking into a crowd of enemies before deactivating it to use Windmill or Sakura Abyss, or staying invisible during missions where NPC allies can fight all of the enemies for you because those Final Hit-happy Unknown Men always make a B-line for you like you're the freaking ice cream man or something.

    Stomp is OP, especially now that we can spam it. I can take out room after room of enemies in "The Other Alchemists" with nothing but rank 7 stomp on a character who has rank 1 Windmill, all other basic combat skills at rank C or lower and no other combat-oriented abilities beside Ice Bolt, with practically no problem. What could I do in the same mission with an elf in the same condition and Hide? Jack squat. Hide leaves you helpless when you're using it and isn't there for you when you need it the most...like a bad boyfriend.
    SherriLeiliciaZeo
  • SiodhanSiodhan
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,825
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    edited August 19, 2017
    He's more than likely refering to the hydra+hide combo, which deals consistent damage if you can pull it off, but is really slow and doesn't work in phantasm due to the ambient 1 damage by the ghost thingies. That's the logic everyone who argues against hide uses. I've personally never liked hydra even after maxing it out and I wouldn't cheese anything with it because it takes for damn ever incomparison to how other races can clear stuff, even if it can be a sort of surefire way.

    EDIT: To me, hide is just an aggro dropping skill like crisis escape, which actually requires preparation to pull off, so they have different niches.
    Danievictria
  • DanievictriaDanievictria
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    edited August 19, 2017
    Siodhan wrote: »
    He's more than likely refering to the hydra+hide combo, which deals consistent damage if you can pull it off, but is really slow and doesn't work in phantasm due to the ambient 1 damage by the ghost thingies. That's the logic everyone who argues against hide uses. I've personally never liked hydra even after maxing it out and I wouldn't cheese anything with it because it takes for damn ever incomparison to how other races can clear stuff, even if it can be a sort of surefire way.

    EDIT: To me, hide is just an aggro dropping skill like crisis, which actually requires preparation to pull off, so they have different niches.

    True, but with how situational Hide is (Just one combo that people thing it's amazing for...with a skill that you need to do a storyline quest to unlock...), it leaves it as an incredibly weak ability. Plus, the lack of an indicator for the cooldown makes it confusing and infuriating to try and get any proper use out of. Hence, why I find it to be horribly weak. It needs to be tweaked and re-balanced to make it more useful.

    I mean, even if they don't tweak the cooldowns (which, honestly, they should), just giving us the ability to load skills before exiting hide mode would be nice. Right now, unless you feel like working your way through a bunch of story missions to learn the second tier of alchemy skills, it's most useful as a means of avoiding fights altogether. That's good for traversing the field or surviving missions where you have NPC's to fight for you or stronger players to leech off of (the latter is something I don't like doing, because I don't like taking advantage of other players to get me through content I have no business doing yet), but for dungeons, shadow missions, and soloing most storyline missions (I like soloing story stuff, so I can go at my own pace and enjoy the cutscenes without worrying about being rushed through by my partners), it's useless.
  • TNinjaTNinja
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    Hide doesn't even let you hide from everything.

    You go to Rabbie Phantasm and tell me how well Hide does for you.
    DanievictriaSherriZeo
  • Naomii66Naomii66
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    elves need moar luv
    DanievictriaSherriZeo
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
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    edited August 19, 2017
    I feel like a lot of the suggestions in here go from 0-100 really fast when i read them.
  • LostLinksLostLinks
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    I'd like an Iria overhaul.
  • xxdropxxxxdropxx
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    Can we nerf them like we did golems that one time?
    Hardmuscle
  • SugarAngelSugarAngel
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    edited August 19, 2017
    xxdropxx wrote: »
    Can we nerf them like we did golems that one time?

    By capping their windmill at rank 6? :^)
    Opalthira wrote: »
    I feel like a lot of the suggestions in here go from 0-100 really fast when i read them.

    That is really any elf thread, if it's a question or not it devolves to QQ or just simply getting trolled and derailed due to them asking for it for years, even on the old forums.
  • AtaraxizAtaraxiz
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,910
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    SugarAngel wrote: »
    xxdropxx wrote: »
    Can we nerf them like we did golems that one time?

    By capping their windmill at rank 6? :^)

    Dude my Windmill is only 8 x'D I just never ranked it up zzzz
  • HumiliatingHumiliating
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,290
    Posts: 53
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    edited August 20, 2017
    As a giant main(now) these are my ideas for revamping elves.

    Beware, it will be a long post.
    1. Get rid of Final Shot, rename Mirage Shot to Viral Shot

    Its useless and unnecessary.

    Elves do not need to teleport everywhere.

    They are already very fast.

    2. New Elf-Only Skill: Mirage/Phantom Cast

    Prolonged exposure to the desert in Filia has allowed you to master its skills of illusions.

    The skill allows you to summon Mirages/Phantoms that use skills in conjunction with your character and have 1/8th your health

    At rank F it has a -50% damage decrease but you get a Phantom summon which casts spells and abilities with your character(think of 2 fireballs instead of 1 or 10 charges of thunder instead of 5).

    At rank 1 you can have as many as 4 Mirages/Phantoms that deal 25% less damage and have 1/4th your health.

    You take damage equal to 1/4th of your HP when a Mirage/Phantom is dispelled.

    Mirage/Phantom Cast has stamina consumption equal to Wind Guard and Final Hit.

    Mirages/Phantoms may draw aggro, can be attacked and dispelled when no health is left.

    Mirages/Phantoms can not be knocked down.

    Mirages/Phantoms can miss with archery skills.

    Mirages/Phantoms can not cast advanced magics.

    While Mirage/Phantom Cast is active, all magic skills will have increased mana consumption based on how many Mirages/Phantoms are present.

    Duration is 60 seconds with a 4 minute cooldown.

    3. Mirages/Phantoms can also use archery skills and amplify their effects.(-25% damage applied at rank 1 with 3 phantoms and -50% at rank F with 1 phantom)

    Crash Shot can now hit twice to quadruple the amount of enemies and deal 50% to 225% more damage.

    Magnum Shot now does 50% to 225% more damage with a bigger AoE on the knockback.

    Viral Shot does 50% to 225% DoT with how many mirages/phantoms are out and immediately spread to nearby enemies.

    Support Shot increases incoming Melee damage by 50% to 225%.

    Spider Shot can hit multiple enemies near the target and increase duration of snare.

    Urgent Shot can hit multiple enemies near the target.

    4. Give Magic Missile a Makeover.

    Magic Missile can be casted without needing to be in transformation but decreases the durability of your weapon twice as much.

    You may load Magnum Shot or Crash Shot with this skill.

    When Magic Missile is used, you are able to cast any intermediate magic to be used in conjunction with the ability and must be charged with the skill loaded whether it is Crash Shot or Magnum Shot.

    Fireball casted with Magnum Shot loaded will knock back the target and then explode after a second of impact.

    Fireball casted with Crash Shot loaded will cause the target to explode after the fragments spread.

    Thunder casted with Magnum Shot loaded will cause thunder strikes a few seconds after being knocked back(thunder strikes are based upon how many were casted).

    Thunder casted with Crash Shot loaded will cause the target and nearby enemies hit with the fragments to take thunder strikes(thunder strikes are based upon how many were casted).

    Ice Spear casted with Magnum Shot loaded will cause the target to freeze instantly after being hit with the shot and cause the Ice Spear to spread to other enemies if the target is killed.

    Ice Spear casted with Crash Shot loaded will cause the target and nearby enemies to freeze immediately after being hit from either the initial shot or fragments and will spread to other nearby enemies if the enemy or enemies are killed.

    Magic Missile has a cooldown of 2 minutes and can not be used with Mirage/Phantom Cast.

    Share your thoughts.
    SherriSuu
  • HumiliatingHumiliating
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,290
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    edited August 20, 2017
    PS:
    Giants only caught up to being OP but humans have been OP since the start.
    Don't blame giants if they just got revamped, blame the humans for being OP first.
    I hate elf QQ threads because they are unnecessary.
    We need more "How would you revamp elves" threads.
    We need to give Nexon/DevCat more ideas.(eveniftheydontseeit)
    SugarAngelDanievictriaSuu
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,360
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    edited August 20, 2017
    Honestly, when encountered with a strong enemy, all I can really do is Hide + Hydra. Which does wonders, don't get me wrong, but it isn't nearly as efficient as a human FH or even giants nowadays.

    Another thing that Hide can do; say the whole party is knocked out. All we need to do is get to a safe area and use a phoenix/party feather.
    Same goes with spamming Party Healing.
    SugarAngel wrote: »
    That is really any elf thread, if it's a question or not it devolves to QQ or just simply getting trolled and derailed due to them asking for it for years, even on the old forums.

    Yup and it's sad how we can't have one thread voicing our concerns without people labeling it as 'QQ' and eventually getting it locked.


    TNinja wrote: »
    Hide doesn't even let you hide from everything.

    You go to Rabbie Phantasm and tell me how well Hide does for you.

    More and more new content isn't allowing us use Hide anyway. I remember when it (Rabbie Phantasm) first came out (which wasn't that long ago though), I relied fully on Bash.
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,760
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    edited August 20, 2017
    You know what? I'll agree to an elf overhaul, ONLY if these following changes are implemented:

    Human Paladins get an Active Skill for the Paladin Transformation.

    Human Dark Knights have Control of Darkness removed in favor of something useful (since Taming is a much cheaper alternative and is the official taming method)

    All races have movement speed nerfed to human speed.

    Remove race restrictions on clothing (not light/heavy armor. Restrictions make some sense there.)
    GretaKageito
  • TNinjaTNinja
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,165
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    edited August 20, 2017
    Human Dark Knights have Control of Darkness removed in favor of something useful (since Taming is a much cheaper alternative and is the official taming method)
    Now to be fair.

    Control of Darkness's success rate stacks with Taming's rate, making humans the best tamers.


    Not that there is anything else to tame in the game, as Taming has been forgotten.
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,760
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    edited August 20, 2017
    TNinja wrote: »
    Human Dark Knights have Control of Darkness removed in favor of something useful (since Taming is a much cheaper alternative and is the official taming method)
    Now to be fair.

    Control of Darkness's success rate stacks with Taming's rate, making humans the best tamers.


    Not that there is anything else to tame in the game, as Taming has been forgotten.

    Control of Darkness doesn't count towards any Generation requirements, and seeing that most of the worthwhile spawns probabmy can't be tamed by either skill, along with the gold cost, Control of Darkness seems like a waste to me.
    Siodhan wrote: »
    He's more than likely refering to the hydra+hide combo, which deals consistent damage if you can pull it off, but is really slow and doesn't work in phantasm due to the ambient 1 damage by the ghost thingies. That's the logic everyone who argues against hide uses. I've personally never liked hydra even after maxing it out and I wouldn't cheese anything with it because it takes for damn ever incomparison to how other races can clear stuff, even if it can be a sort of surefire way.

    EDIT: To me, hide is just an aggro dropping skill like crisis, which actually requires preparation to pull off, so they have different niches.

    True, but with how situational Hide is (Just one combo that people thing it's amazing for...with a skill that you need to do a storyline quest to unlock...), it leaves it as an incredibly weak ability. Plus, the lack of an indicator for the cooldown makes it confusing and infuriating to try and get any proper use out of. Hence, why I find it to be horribly weak. It needs to be tweaked and re-balanced to make it more useful.

    I mean, even if they don't tweak the cooldowns (which, honestly, they should), just giving us the ability to load skills before exiting hide mode would be nice. Right now, unless you feel like working your way through a bunch of story missions to learn the second tier of alchemy skills, it's most useful as a means of avoiding fights altogether. That's good for traversing the field or surviving missions where you have NPC's to fight for you or stronger players to leech off of (the latter is something I don't like doing, because I don't like taking advantage of other players to get me through content I have no business doing yet), but for dungeons, shadow missions, and soloing most storyline missions (I like soloing story stuff, so I can go at my own pace and enjoy the cutscenes without worrying about being rushed through by my partners), it's useless.

    Are you saying Hide or Hydra are story-given?

    Hide is either given upon creation, or obtained via beginners quests. Hydra is given either by rebirthing into Vates talent, using a Hero/Elite Hero card and choosing Vates, or getting Guard Cylinder Mastery to Rank 3.

    Bottom like; an elf revamp will only happen if KR becomes displeased with elves, and seeing how KR is fine enough with Mag-Spam Elves, an elf revamp seems like an idea that won't happen.
  • DanievictriaDanievictria
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,695
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    TNinja wrote: »
    Human Dark Knights have Control of Darkness removed in favor of something useful (since Taming is a much cheaper alternative and is the official taming method)
    Now to be fair.

    Control of Darkness's success rate stacks with Taming's rate, making humans the best tamers.


    Not that there is anything else to tame in the game, as Taming has been forgotten.

    Control of Darkness doesn't count towards any Generation requirements, and seeing that most of the worthwhile spawns probabmy can't be tamed by either skill, along with the gold cost, Control of Darkness seems like a waste to me.
    Siodhan wrote: »
    He's more than likely refering to the hydra+hide combo, which deals consistent damage if you can pull it off, but is really slow and doesn't work in phantasm due to the ambient 1 damage by the ghost thingies. That's the logic everyone who argues against hide uses. I've personally never liked hydra even after maxing it out and I wouldn't cheese anything with it because it takes for damn ever incomparison to how other races can clear stuff, even if it can be a sort of surefire way.

    EDIT: To me, hide is just an aggro dropping skill like crisis, which actually requires preparation to pull off, so they have different niches.

    True, but with how situational Hide is (Just one combo that people thing it's amazing for...with a skill that you need to do a storyline quest to unlock...), it leaves it as an incredibly weak ability. Plus, the lack of an indicator for the cooldown makes it confusing and infuriating to try and get any proper use out of. Hence, why I find it to be horribly weak. It needs to be tweaked and re-balanced to make it more useful.

    I mean, even if they don't tweak the cooldowns (which, honestly, they should), just giving us the ability to load skills before exiting hide mode would be nice. Right now, unless you feel like working your way through a bunch of story missions to learn the second tier of alchemy skills, it's most useful as a means of avoiding fights altogether. That's good for traversing the field or surviving missions where you have NPC's to fight for you or stronger players to leech off of (the latter is something I don't like doing, because I don't like taking advantage of other players to get me through content I have no business doing yet), but for dungeons, shadow missions, and soloing most storyline missions (I like soloing story stuff, so I can go at my own pace and enjoy the cutscenes without worrying about being rushed through by my partners), it's useless.

    Are you saying Hide or Hydra are story-given?

    Hide is either given upon creation, or obtained via beginners quests. Hydra is given either by rebirthing into Vates talent, using a Hero/Elite Hero card and choosing Vates, or getting Guard Cylinder Mastery to Rank 3.

    Bottom like; an elf revamp will only happen if KR becomes displeased with elves, and seeing how KR is fine enough with Mag-Spam Elves, an elf revamp seems like an idea that won't happen.

    I was mistaken about hydra, then. I must have gotten it mixed up with one of the other skills that are story-linked, my bad.

    Still, only one combo that hide is really strong with doesn't remedy its general uselessness. Shadow Cloak is more useful than Hide in a pitched battle...and it's got a timed duration. You know why? You can pop it in the middle of a fight, the cooldown is indicated on the icon, and if you exit early you get an instant attack. Hide? Yeah, it's still weaksauce in my opinion. Sorry.

    Though, you can't deny that it would be nice if they paid a bit more attention to the magic side with elves. Maybe gave us a skill set that focuses on Intelligence and Dexterity (what, with so many skill sets being dependent on Strength and all...). Whether it's likely or not, that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a welcome addition.