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Is there an Elf Overhaul coming?

Comments

  • SugarAngelSugarAngel
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,220
    Posts: 98
    Member
    edited September 16, 2017
    iMattxC wrote: »
    Pan wrote: »
    Elves are literally the best race in the game.

    Are you forgetting dual guns which don't miss, do twice as much damage, and hold more shots in a smaller space?

    Did you forget they don't stun? Unless they critical, I acknowledge, but that is literally for .5 seconds. So have fun trying to stunlock reliably like you can do with literally anything else.
    Also no, Way of the Gun doesn't count, as it has a Cooldown, I'm talking just in casual play, auto attacks.
    And that 0.1 Ranged Attack cooldown doesn't count either.

    I know there is the argument of connection being an issue making dual guns more reliable than ranged; but technically, no. It should also make dual guns a living hell to use as well. In fact, I would even argue to say that Ranged Attack is better during lag. As I've played with a disgusting amount of ping, even through denagle. (like 300) So.. I wonder. :thinking:
    BumbDitch wrote: »
    SugarAngel wrote: »
    Kokoro wrote: »
    SugarAngel wrote: »
    Ataraxiz wrote: »
    I APPROVE THIS MESSAGE
    Once again, Chainslash, they'll be incredibly adept with it, along with humans, and not with giants.

    Technically giants will be the best at chainslash every half a day due to the 15% bonus from the Might of Ladeca thing but elves will be the best for the other half.

    If we want to be more technical, Giants will only be the best Chain Slash users if they use Divine Link and have a lv. 200 DEX heavy pet. So.. Elves will still be the best unless you want to dedicate to minmaxing a 700-dexterity divine link pet.

    Opalthira wrote: »
    People already did the math a long time ago basically giants do very little extra damage compared to elves.
    But only if they min max stats and are ttl 40k with every skill unlocked pretty much.

    Exactly this, plus we also have to consider they'd have to hinder themselves by going Puppetry or Chainslash talent for maximum growth and effectiveness of the class.. The highest growth of dexterity they can get anyway per level is half a level, puppetry bumping it to .75 and archery(if they can lock into it for the stats) and chainslash to 1.0 per level I'm pretty sure while elves can get 1 ~ 1.25 per level. Like I said, we're min-maxing if we're going to be saying giants are going to be the best ...

    Plus like I mentioned earlier, they'd be gimping themselves.

    (They'd need about 400~500 dexterity from divine link @ lv. 200, and 500~700(between) if they aren't a chain slash talent, which also costs PON(I'm unaware if this changed!)to go into by the rebirth... So why complain?

    Right? Find me the Giant who goes through all of this outrageous trouble and I'll show you an idiot who decided not to just buy an axe and use full swing...

    So it took you a month to actually come up with that reply? As insightful as it is, I like the fact of your username showing more.
    Regardless, I've already seen multiple giants that don't use an axe, but use a hammer or sword instead. So thus, there MUST BE a ton of idiots that didn't buy an axe to full swing, so therefore, there will be a lot of giants who don't go through that outrageous trouble. Need I remind you of it again?
    Level 200 of any Dexterity Heavy Class
    Level 200 Dexterity Heavy Pet and Rank 1 Divine Link
    Rank 1 of each Production skill that gives dexterity
    and ..

    Elves can do this much easier, cap their dexterity without the need of a Divine Link pet.
    So why don't they just invest in an extremely high luck pet so that they can just get capped luck as well? Shouldn't be too hard.
    But, a lot of giants won't do as I mentioned, so, obviously elves won't too, right?

    but hi, i fight necromancers too
  • PoppyBrosJrPoppyBrosJr
    Mabinogi Rep: 310
    Post: 1
    Member
    The reason there isn't an Elf overhaul is because in Korea where connection speeds are fast and Lag doesn't exist. Elves and Archery are firmly top tier and almost always have been.

    Reminder that the NA version of this game just gets regurgitated content, and doesn't make its own.
    Darkpixie99
  • TairikuTairiku
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,405
    Posts: 73
    Member
    Elves don't need an overhaul from what I can tell. If you don't wanna have range as your endgame, you might've picked the wrong race.
  • JulieJulie
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,930
    Posts: 340
    Member
    edited September 20, 2017
    HAHAHA, you guys should have seen the amount of elf QQ in the last forums, one of them even reached around 545 pages, its a dream to think that anything is going to be done about them at this point!laughing2.gif
  • PanPan
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,745
    Posts: 418
    Member
    edited September 21, 2017
    -removed- Please do not post images that contain inappropriate language.

    wcsL6ip.png

    JqJ2c9o.png

    I still live by this to this day.

    Source: -removed, link not allowed-
  • NilremNilrem
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,880
    Posts: 465
    Member
    SugarAngel wrote: »
    Elves can do this much easier, cap their dexterity without the need of a Divine Link pet.
    So why don't they just invest in an extremely high luck pet so that they can just get capped luck as well? Shouldn't be too hard.
    But, a lot of giants won't do as I mentioned, so, obviously elves won't too, right?

    OrP8eYB.jpg

    Oh how little you seem to know about players that like to plan.
    Like myself.

    Preparing for Chain Slash as an elf is laughably easy, after all.
    Even more so to find things that boost luck on the side.
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,135
    Posts: 2,554
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    I'm trying to comprehend how anyone (Elf, Giant, Human) can "easily" cap Luck (1500?). :flushed:

  • NilremNilrem
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,880
    Posts: 465
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    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    I'm trying to comprehend how anyone (Elf, Giant, Human) can "easily" cap Luck (1500?). :flushed:

    Maybe not easy to cap at 1500, but getting to 1000 is very possible and more than enough alongside capped dex to make chain slash have absurd damage potential.

    The big challenge for reaching the luck cap is finding a pet with high luck stats, something easier said than done.
    A lot of pets have similar, or even identical luck stats.
    Hardmuscle
  • SaiSai
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,650
    Posts: 675
    Member
    I still 'member when the Elves were high and mighty. Being able to solo and destroy Ciar Adv like nothing when it was the best dungeon for exp. The archers really had their time in the light back then. The envy and hate of all.

    After all those days of extreme glory, they've been abandon. This is what all the envy and hate manifested into. This is the curse of the Elves.
    zILbOz7.png zILbOz7.png zILbOz7.png
    Hardmuscle
  • FoodfoodfoodFoodfoodfood
    Mabinogi Rep: 980
    Posts: 51
    Member
    edited September 22, 2017
    Is every elf on the forum a new player that thinks humans are overpowered from seeing them kill trash mobs with final hit in shadow missions? I'm pretty sure that knowing the meta of the game right now, the reason there are more end game humans in the game is because people don't want to start over and have to retrain life skills, renown, crusader, etc. If I could turn into an elf or trade my human for an equal value elf with same investment into gears, maxed stats, high level crusader, and total level, I would 100% take that trade.

    There seems to always be a misconception that elves are bad at everything except archery because they have bad stats, but this is only true for combat and fighter due to lower multipliers in skills such as windmill and chain mastery, and for ninja, because they have a lower str/will cap. Fact of the matter is that elves ARE the best mages because they can reach an INT cap of 1800 with Shine of Eweca, higher than human cap of 1750 or giant cap of 1700. Elves are the SAME gunner and puppeteer when you use cater and divine link. I've disregarded echo stones because all races have the same potential with those.

    Elves are the best archers and mages, but the weakest fighters, melee, and ninjas, but really the same in other classes. They have the highest solo clear speed in the game and thus do not really need any buffs. Also now that combo cards come from advancement tests, elves can gain massive multipliers on their magnums much more reasonably now. If you really value some measly stat bonuses from lance talent and skills that are easily nullified by cater and divine link, then maybe you should play a human and see that final hit is really just meh compared to magnum spam. Everyone pretends that elf range has an insane price investment to get into, but totally disregard that humans have to reforge head slot, armor slot, swords, make attack speed set, make piercing lance, etc. to stay relevant late game.

    Finally, the best player on Tarlach is an elf, and I'd wager that's the same for other servers.

    Edit: Forgot to mention that mage is not irrelevant, blaze is good damage in dungeons including phantasm and ice spear is best clear speed for Alban.
    PeloiNilremMikuV3Policroma
  • lceCreamlceCream
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,205
    Posts: 199
    Member
    edited September 22, 2017
    Everyone pretends that elf range has an insane price investment to get into, but totally disregard that humans have to reforge head slot, armor slot, swords, make attack speed set, make piercing lance, etc. to stay relevant late game.

    A bhafel huntress set costs more than it takes to gear up a human
    attack speed doesn't do anything for final hit or bash, it's only for wotg
    lance is prob the cheapest to gear, get the free demonic lance and smack some enchants on it. Shouldn't cost more than a few mil
    20 fh dur is like 20m
    20 fh cd is like 20m
    celtic swords are 10m each

    So that's like 60-70m for an endgame human

    Meanwhile huntress set is like 80m and good luck getting the rest of the gear (i've never seen any good archery gear for sale)

    I have max dex on my elf and i find myself using bash and never magnum since i don't have the gear yet
  • SaiSai
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,650
    Posts: 675
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    edited September 22, 2017
    lceCream wrote: »

    So that's like 60-70m for an endgame human

    Good lord. I don't think I've ever had that much gold before.
    I think the most I ever had was 25m from the first + second Doki Doki event by selling cateyes. Too bad I spent most of that already.
    Hardmuscle
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,135
    Posts: 2,554
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    edited September 23, 2017
  • FoodfoodfoodFoodfoodfood
    Mabinogi Rep: 980
    Posts: 51
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    edited September 23, 2017
    lceCream wrote: »
    Everyone pretends that elf range has an insane price investment to get into, but totally disregard that humans have to reforge head slot, armor slot, swords, make attack speed set, make piercing lance, etc. to stay relevant late game.

    A bhafel huntress set costs more than it takes to gear up a human
    attack speed doesn't do anything for final hit or bash, it's only for wotg
    lance is prob the cheapest to gear, get the free demonic lance and smack some enchants on it. Shouldn't cost more than a few mil
    20 fh dur is like 20m
    20 fh cd is like 20m
    celtic swords are 10m each

    So that's like 60-70m for an endgame human

    Meanwhile huntress set is like 80m and good luck getting the rest of the gear (i've never seen any good archery gear for sale)

    I have max dex on my elf and i find myself using bash and never magnum since i don't have the gear yet

    Right, and what about 56th, 48th, 67th floor enchants for your 2 swords and 1 lance? Attack speed is actually necessary for Brionac shred or Fanatic FH, plus highest dual FH dps is with 1 demonic sword and 1 celtic knight sword because the normal atk speed of demonic sword means attack speed benefits it. What about having to reforge 2 swords and a lance instead of just a bow? What about having to get a tribolt to have consistent ranged DPS? What about having to buy Eweca red ups for all of those weapons for step 7? Maybe Prot stones if you're feeling unlucky?

    I guess if we're just price checking "minimalist end game" I can do the same thing for elf.

    15m Celtic Xbow, use sharp bolts
    30m magnum 20 Bohemian gloves
    20m FS CD Bohemian hat

    I'd also like to see an "end game" human with just FH reforges and celtic swords solo Alban Heroic within a reasonable time.
  • SiodhanSiodhan
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,825
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    You're forgetting effective range (and maybe ele) on the bow/xbow and a permanent combo card, which I believe you can currently not obtain. Also, celtic royal xbows weren't that cheap last time I checked. Not to mention magnum dan 3 is utterly ridiculous. I also don't want to know just how much higher FH dps is, rather than damage per hit, if you have to keep aiming to 70% to have any virtual chance at all to hit, unless you're some kind of RNG god. Anyway, lots of things don't have much prot. You'd probably want a bhafel set.

    ..also, this is going to be hypothetical, but if an elf revamp were to happen, I'm somewhat certain we'll also have to deal with getting all of this equipment and reforging done AGAIN for a light armor version of the bohemian set, possibly. I'm not saying it will happen and that this will in any way impact the cost to get into archery (aside from what the armor itself will cost in terms of materials), but that's not gonna be fun for those that already spent two arms and two legs on their current gear, like myself.

    At the end of the day, there are still issues with archery that need fixing (especially on the elf side) that don't have anything to do with the cost of getting into it and I'd like to have those fixed...on top of making those 502358258 billion gold enchantments for 100 max damage for accessories earnable ingame instead of gachas, which may play an insane factor for both as well.
  • FoodfoodfoodFoodfoodfood
    Mabinogi Rep: 980
    Posts: 51
    Member
    edited September 23, 2017
    Bruh my point is that this guy is neglecting tons of stuff that humans need end game. Of course I know serious elf players need eff range bows, but if elves are gonna pretend humans don't need stuff like floored weapons, attack speed, and ranged dps options then I can pretend they don't need eff range.

    Also what? Every time there's a revamp people have to remake gear, just like when human meta changed from lance charge to FH. Everyone deals with it.

    Tbh it just sounds like you're not an end game elf if you are struggling to clear as fast as humans. Lag also affects human dps too so if you're laggy it's not like your clear speed will increase exponentially by switching to playing human instead of elf. The fastest runner on Tarlach is an elf, that is fact, it's absurd for you to keep saying that human FH is higher dps by just blaming the game. There are videos of elves hitting shots very consistently, why don't you upload a video of yourself missing with visions active.
  • SiodhanSiodhan
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    Well, for starters, visions disappears completely when you cc. So for dragons, archery isn't all that great for more than one dragon. Aside from the fact that people first FH and bash, THEN brio once they have what they want while others are still far behind. That part's annoying too, plus the dura loss in comparions to FH with the insane repair costs we have, but nevermind those.

    I'm not endgame, I can't call myself endgame before I get all of the afforementioned gear, reforges and combo cards. but you're also assuming visions is readily available at all times, while bash and FH in combination actually are. I can't even make full use of the extra aim speed thanks to EU latency, whereas bashing and FH work just fine due to the fact that you just need to keep clicking and there are rather large pauses between each hit, while for mag you gotta really watch out when you click as to not ruin it. Elves standing there going "durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" for half a minute while aiming with ranged attack or support shot doesn't really help, that bug still needs fixing...and finally, that'S all supposing we're only talking about a ranged update. I'd actually like more of a magic update though, as muc has that would force me to completely change my gear all over. Archery was just never my thing, but I was more or less forced into it to perform halfway decently. My fantasy life, right?
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,135
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    @Foodfoodfood ~ Every time someone says "bruh", I think of this picture....

    aU5Fdgw.jpg

    :trollface:

  • OpalthiraOpalthira
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    Its like none of you have ever watched endgame koreans using magnum shot.
    Its like 160k damage per second for like two minutes.
    HardmusclePolicroma
  • lceCreamlceCream
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,205
    Posts: 199
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    edited September 23, 2017

    15m Celtic Xbow, use sharp bolts
    30m magnum 20 Bohemian gloves
    20m FS CD Bohemian hat

    I'd also like to see an "end game" human with just FH reforges and celtic swords solo Alban Heroic within a reasonable time.

    okay, didn't know they were that cheap

    For alban yeah you're right, you would need some aoe. The boss you can FH