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Updated: List of things that feel Outdated

Hisame621Hisame621
Mabinogi Rep: 1,250
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edited September 18, 2021 in Feedback and Suggestions
Here is a list of things that feel outdated.
I will be coming back to update this list because there are so many things that I have allowed myself to forget and would like more time to go in depth with each one. Note, I am not stating that these skills ARE outdated, but rather that they FEEL outdated in my opinion. I think many people would agree

1. Hot Air Balloon
2. Rafting
3. Shadow Missions
4. Summon Golem Skill
5. Tower Cylinders

6. Nearly every skill that isn't Chain Blade
Almost every combat skill has become inferior and not worth using as of Chain Blades. The time it takes to cast Advanced Magic for a nice AoE attack is inferior when compared to Chain Sweeping. The same goes for shooting an arrow with archery vs attacking enemies with a Chain. Who would waste their time with Crash Shot? With chains there is no need to aim. The same applies to loading a crystal into an Alchemy Cylinder, which leads to the next outdated thing:
(This has been balanced recently THANK YOU DEVS @ NEXON and DEVCAT or whoever is behind all this :D)

7. (Alchemy) Magic Crystals. -this is still very obsolete!
What is the point of spending so much time charging advanced magic in front of an oven to create a Magic Crystal that when you load it in a cylinder, takes almost the same amount of time as charging magic normally? Why not just allow instant casting since the casting was already done?

8. Spirit Weapons / Spirit Awakening Skill
It takes such a long time to raise the level of a spirit weapon (beyond damage that is worthy) that by the time one is done, they're more than likely fed up with the game. This happened to me many times before and I have been playing for over nine years.
(No longer feels outdated)

9. Mirrage Missile (not so outdated)

10. Elf Magic Missile (Still Outdated)

11. Campfire (No longer Outdated)

12. Fusion Bolt
Fusion Bolt is another one of those things that the developers put effort into making, and now hardly anyone uses it except maybe for stat boosting purposes. I think Fusion Bolt is very underrated and deserves way more implementation. For example, Chain Casting upgrades should include Fusion Bolt Charges and Snap Cast should allow for Snap Casting Fusion Bolts. Honestly, with Chain Blades being many times more efficient at killing mobs than magic, All magic bolt skill should be allowed to charge past 5 charges.[/b] ( I still hold this belief and hope this changes soon)
13. Magic Bolts/Bolt Mastery[b\]
As I was saying, All magic bolt skills should be allowed to charge past 5 charges. 10 Charges at 2x the charging speed would barely put a fair balance between Chain Blade and Magic. Being able to charge a bolt past 5 actually makes charging worth it. What made magic interesting in the game before chain blades or even the ninja skills was the fact that one had to charge bolts and manage to not get killed and buy enough time to cast powerful magic, adding suspense and making things more challenging and fun.

Magic Bolt skills deserve a revamp the same way Alchemy was revamped with Elemental Wave and Golden Time. A "Final Cast" skill would be nice and quickly fix this imbalance. Final cast would make it so that players can use both hands to use instant magic. To balance things, this could have the same duration as Final Shot/Final Hit etc. only for a short period, allow instant casting. If it sounds like loading bolts quickly might be complicating, a way to simplify things is you simply Load the Skill that will be used for and replace Normal Attacks with the Loaded Skill.
For example after activating Final Cast, you load "Firebolt" and now each "Normal Attack" is an Amplified Firebolt with less attack delay. The same could go for Fusion bolt, if the player uses Fire/Ice Fusion bolt, all "Normal Attacks" become Fire/Ice Fusion Bolts. During Final Cast, the player would have Spellwalk activated naturally with no MP Consumption (but if you wanted to you could have MP be consumed at the end of the Final Cast duration?). Perhaps even blaze can be instant casted when loaded, this would be very fun. As for Fireball, maybe each hand can hold one ball, then you can launch one after the other with a brief (.5 second) delay between each, then a small cooldown after both are launched. Same goes for ice spear, and Thunder. To be more concise, Hailstorm, Fireball, Ice Spear and Thunder would be the same except they would allow for a second launch after the first, then a small cooldown after both. Meteor Strike can also be instantly casted, maybe allow for two Meteors during Final Cast (the cooldown can remain the same).
Also how about allowing Instant heals when Heal/Party Heal is casted.
All of these things can be done, and if they seem too overempowering, just make the most overpowering things to reduce the duration of Final Cast.

14. Blaze I havent tried it out after the recent update.

15. Arrow Crafting
Not worth the effort if you cant stack more than 100. All thats needed is to allow for stacks of 500 or 1000. Its time-consuming enough to make them, having to reload arrows might be a pain. Either that or you can keep the current 100 Stack, but at least allow them to be placed inside a Quiver Please! I beg you!

16. Hailstorm (No longer feels outdated)

Suggested Solutions:

Magic Bolts/Bolt Mastery: Make Charging speed 2x Faster and allow 10 Charges or more. Chain Casting can remain the same and give up to 5 charges while the other 5 would have to be done manually, or by simple chain casting twice.
Fusion Bolt: Allow Chain Casting, make casting time faster.
Or replace the above suggestion with Final Cast.

Comments

  • HelsaHelsa
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    edited August 29, 2019
    Hisame621 wrote: »
    1. Hot Air Balloon

    Some skill quest require ballooning since you cant hunt wyverns any other way.
    Hisame621 wrote: »
    2. Rafting

    Along with hot air ballooning is the only way to get Likeability potions until your potion making is good enough.
    Hisame621 wrote: »
    3. Shadow Missions

    Don't people spam these for gold?
    Hisame621 wrote: »
    4. Summon Golem Skill

    Summon golem is the only range skill that can essentially shoot through walls.
    Hisame621 wrote: »
    5. Tower Cylinders

    They are used for dramatically boosting the puff damage of hydra installations.
    Hisame621 wrote: »
    6. Nearly every skill that isn't Chain Blade

    Defensive and agro-controlling skills are of great use. Used in conjunction with hydra will get you through many situations, along with the aforementioned golems launched from behind barriers.
    Hisame621 wrote: »
    7. (Alchemy) Magic Crystals.

    Mana crystallization gives you Fireball, Ice Spear, and Thunder immediately without having to complete all the skill quests. So you would get this skill earlier in your career while you get the actual magic ones later.
    Hisame621 wrote: »
    8. Mana Shield

    This is used by players earlier in their career, like transformations, until they are strong enough to not need it.
    Hisame621 wrote: »
    9. Spirit Weapons / Spirit Awakening Skill

    Apparently they're working on this.
    Hisame621 wrote: »
    10. Mirrage Missile

    This is used to weaken groups of monsters for follow-up AoE attacks.
    Hisame621 wrote: »
    11. Elf Magic Missile

    I don't have this skill so I don't know.
    Hisame621 wrote: »
    12. Campfire

    Campfire is used to help strip items of their enchants.
    Hisame621 wrote: »
    13. Fusion Bolt

    Power creep probably has made this less important.
    Hisame621 wrote: »
    14. Magic Bolts/Bolt Mastery[b\]

    Magic bolts are used for their secondary effects as part of combos, that they also do damage should just be viewed as a bonus.
    Hisame621 wrote: »
    15. Blaze

    I'm not too familiar with Blaze, though I had a friend who thought it was awesome though I don't know why.

    EDIT: fixed a typo.
  • Hisame621Hisame621
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    So you're ok with Hot Air Ballooning, an entire system that could use teamwork to hunt wyverns, to only be useful for some skill quests? cool.
    Same with Rafting, a whole complex system of hunting things while rafting on a long river, only to be used to gain likeability potions. cool.
    People spam SMs for gold yes, I don't think I know of many people who do SM's for pleasure. I guess I should correct the title to "Obsolete in terms of fun." Gotchu
    Summon Golem is a Range Skill? I had no idea. And it shoots through walls? If thats how it was intended to be used, then cool...
    Tower Cylinders for puff damage of hydra, ok. I have never seen anyone do that but i'll try it out and see if its worth the time of setting up the tower cylinder and all..

    So skills like Crash Shot, Fireball, Ice Spear, I'm assuming aren't classified as Defensive or Aggro Consuming, but these are the ones I was referring, or just a few of them. Compare all those to Chain Sweep.

    As for Magic Crystals, what you said changes nothing, its basically still pretty useless, with the new Under lvl 1k system, and Blaanid, and tons of events, along with AP training, as well as Resets now being possible, I doubt waiting to learn advanced magic is a big deal.

    Mirrage Missile.. Yeah, I'm pretty sure anyone who has Rank 1 understands what it does.. I have Rank 1.. ty for the reaffirmation. I still think its damage is useless/inferior = obsolete.

    Campfire can also be used for "Fire Arrows" which was really awesome that they did that. They did make it a R1 Skill now and they did a good job, they also added incenses, I know.. Actually you can discard that, I wrote this list a long time ago and saved it in my PC (before they revamped Campfire). Even then, I wish Fire Arrows were cooler, and I wish they added more cool stuff to it.

    You have a good point about Magic Bolts, but I doubt you have a good reason why they shouldnt be allowed to be charged to 10 charges so that they CAN do damage if it was desired.

    You probably aren't familiar with blaze because hardly anyone uses it. The complexity of using it is not worth the damage it does. Either the complexity needs to be reduced (which would make it less cool) or the limitations should be reduced. Compared to chain sweep or chain skills, once again makes blaze less worth using. May I remind you that I am speaking in terms of BALANCE. Thanks for the feedback
  • Hisame621Hisame621
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    Helsa, could you explain how the Tower Cylinder is used for Hydra damage? I don't actually know what you mean by that but im trying to cast Hydra with a Tower Cylinder installed.
  • IyasenuIyasenu
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    Mana Crystallization bites.
    It's weaker than magic, slower than magic, and it can't even benefit from crits. You can't even speed it up with Vivace and it barely works with Spellwalk (only lets you move with Mana Cryst loaded if you have it active BEFORE loading it)
    And you can't even have a strong friend use their r1 magic to help you if you're low rank, since the power of the crystal is based on YOUR Mana Crystallization rank.

    Campfire would be better if it wasn't disallowed in so many places.
    Also if it didn't cancel every time it ran into a placement issue. (Something's moving towards your campfire.)

    Barrier Spikes also has the same issue. But it also runs into a scaling issue, where the HP a spike has doesn't scale with any of your stats and the spikes itself have no defensive stats. Reflective damage from spikes is also worthless since it doesn't ignore defensive stats, so it hits for 0 on almost every enemy.

    Fusion Bolt woulda been neat if you could chaincast with it.
    Even if that property was exclusive to triple elemental wands.

    Elf Magic Missile...
    I only really see people use this to play around during Raid Bosses, and only for its Ice Elemental version's capability of freezing even large enemies keeping others from hitting it. (Like how Ice Spear used to prevent the enemy from being hit)

    As for Tower Cylinder and Hydra, yes it does boost damage, but the issue with Tower Cylinders is more an issue with "Install Cylinder" and using the Tower Cylinder as an actual Cylinder.
    If it had wheels and didn't cancel Install Cylinder on knockdown it'd be a bit better, but it'd still suffer from a long install time and being incapable of mounting a pet to move from encounter to encounter. Which is almost always the case in most content. That and it's not that strong compared to certain regular cylinders.
    Not like there's a "Perseus Tower Cylinder" or something to upgrade from anyways. Can't even use Elemental Wave with a Tower Cylinder.
    YangKoeteHisame621
  • GretaGreta
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    edited August 29, 2019
    At first i was about to take OP's thread seriously, but after the 6th i started to feel suspicious and after few more lines i pretty much gonna take this as a good meme now.
  • MiliardoMiliardo
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    Hisame621 wrote: »
    6. Nearly every skill that isn't Chain Blade
    Almost every skill has become inferior and not worth having as of Chain Blades. The time it takes to cast Advanced Magic for a nice AoE attack is inferior when compared to Chain Sweeping. The same goes for shooting an arrow with archery vs attacking enemies with a Chain. Who would waste their time with Crash Shot? With chains there is no need to aim.
    Seems you haven't seen how fast magic gets in G24 with ego weapons. Even if chain blade is so good it doesn't make magic any less viable. Not everyone is obsessed with min/maxing and efficiency. I'd also like to point out archery can go way faster than chain blade, mostly because of the skill animation on chainblade skills. Yeah if you are only doing normal attacks you could keep up with bow, but you won't beat the speed of AR. Though I'm assuming you are an elf based on your complaints, to which I say, wait for G24 and get an ego bow/xbow I guess.

    In fact I'd say most of your complaints are solved in G24. The rest are either parts of mabi most people don't find all that fun in the first place (rafting/ballooning). Or aren't really a problem because they still serve their purpose just fine (mana shield).

    In fact if there is anything worthy of discussion in your whole list it's rafting/ballooning. And that you should just make a new thread for discussing how to get people to actually want to use them.
  • ZanathKariashiZanathKariashi
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    Content we won't see, ever, doesn't matter.

    We'll be lucky if Mabi is even still running at all in a year.

    And I don't expect to see anything involving G24/Ego Overhaul for at least 2-3.
  • MegasoulMegasoul
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    tldr version: Rafting needs a small rework. Everything else here is in a good condition.

    1. Hot Air Balloon
    This rewards the Mana Witch Enchant (Mana Usage Reduction +1~3 on all, rank 8), Poison Hunter Enchant (Poison Immunity +1~3 on all, rank A), Ring Bow, Hawk and Viscount Enchants, etc. Whether people choose to do it or not is irrelevant, the rewards are there.

    2. Rafting
    This is the only actual problem you list, as the only benefit to rafting is the gold you earn doing it.

    3. Shadow Missions
    Elite missions reward a lot of things people want. I simply can't list all the items, not to mention the gold. Need an Alban Training Stone? Baltane Mission pass? Cressida Wear? Etc. etc.

    4. Summon Golem Skill
    This is highly niche, but with the new technique Tenacious Taunt golems just received a buff. Have I seen anyone invent a cool use for it? No. Will I? Eventually.

    5. Tower Cylinders
    Niche hydra weapon.

    6. Nearly every skill that isn't Chain Blade
    Final Hit/Giant Full Swing/Smash/Smokescreen/Crusader Skills/Crisis Escape/Support Shot/ etc. Even Icebolt has a use, in that it's a unique movement speed debuff. Chain blade skills are troublesome because you need to auto-attack to even use them, and the max ammo is 15 with some skills using 2 ammo per move. High damage, but even in a world where Chain Blade was the singular meta it wouldn't remove the viability of other metas.

    7. (Alchemy) Magic Crystals.
    You can load these using only a Guard Cylinder, meaning you can use a 1-Handed Sword (2-Handed for Giants) while being able to cast Adv. Magic.

    8. Mana Shield
    Literally, most people who run Hasidim use Mana Shield. Mana Shield efficiency reforges are still sought after. It's a highly useful skill.

    9. Spirit Weapons / Spirit Awakening Skill
    Yes but the Korean server has just released a whole new, more approachable Spirit Weapon system.

    10. Mirrage Missile
    It's ranged Discord/Hydra.

    11. Elf Magic Missile
    A less useful Giant Full Swing, but for Elves.

    12. Campfire
    Obviously used for Enchanting, but also used by Archers on the server to increase their damage. Candles are also actually nice, people just don't use them enough.

    13. Fusion Bolt
    Fusion Bolt can still be used, depending on the user.

    14. Magic Bolts/Bolt Mastery
    Icebolt is a movement speed slow, lighting a room clear tool, and firebolt a reasonable damage choice for enemies that aren't resistant to magic. Alchemy actually struggles to outperform a chaincast fire wand right now, simply because the wand casts faster.

    15. Blaze
    Some people like to use this for Phantasm runs. I find the skill disgusting and will not touch it, but it's still in use.

    16. Arrow Crafting
    At a certain point, damage is damage. You can already buy the arrowheads rather than blacksmith them, anyways.

  • FluoretteFluorette
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    Content we won't see, ever, doesn't matter.

    We'll be lucky if Mabi is even still running at all in a year.

    And I don't expect to see anything involving G24/Ego Overhaul for at least 2-3.

    We generally receive Generation updates around ~6-ish months after it comes out in Korea, and generally during winter and summer breaks. (It is more profitable to release them during these times, as many are out of school/on vacation.)

    Examples: The first part of G21 was released in Korea in December 2018, while this server received it in June 2018; the first part of G22 was released in Korea in July 2018, while this server received it in January 2019; the first part of G23 was released in Korea in December 2019, while this server received it in June 2019.

    G24 was released in Korea this past July. With this known, it's likely that we'll receive G24 (first part if it's split into multiples) during December or early January.
    ...Unless something seriously dramatic happens, I'm thinking we should at least still be seeing this server in December/Early January.
    Miliardo
  • NegumikoNegumiko
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    Commerce is also extremely old these days, there is nothing wrong with the system but we need new trade routes. add Commerce in Iria and improve the Ducats shop. does anyone even Bounty Hunt anymore? I rarely do unless I have some Bounty Hunting passes to get rid of. bringing Commerce to Iria would be a good chance to make a few new bandits to Bounty Hunt and some of them could have a more Filia or Vales style bandit homestead.

    as for rafting that river is pretty long. they could extend the rafting route, improve the shop, and fix some of the rafting glitches. it is still helpful for getting likeability pots though.
    Hisame621Dra6o0n
  • IyasenuIyasenu
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    Mana Shield could benefit from an Uncap in attainable Rank.
    Master Title also has potential to be interesting if it added additional Efficiency.

    As for Arrow Crafting, I dunno.
    It always seems better to just use ammo that boosts damage by a percent, rather than look for the flat amounts of Handicrafted ammo.
    Stuff like Bhafel Hunter/Huntress is the big one, but there's those "Special Arrow/Bolt Bundle" that you can receive from the Baltane boxes you buy with seals from your Squires that offer 10% boosts.

    It's just hard to pass up percentile boosts to damage for flat boosts, especially considering Finest Handcrafted Arrows are just +10 damage.
    And heck those crafted arrows only stack to 100, and the Special Bundles stack up to 1,000.

    And for Elves, their Quiver can't hold anything BUT normal arrows, and even then only up to 500.
    So you can't use one of those to make up for the crafted arrows' stack size issues.
  • HelsaHelsa
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    Hisame621 wrote: »
    Helsa, could you explain how the Tower Cylinder is used for Hydra damage? I don't actually know what you mean by that but im trying to cast Hydra with a Tower Cylinder installed.

    From your first response it seems to me that you are taking anything that is not agreement as a personal attack. If you can change your tone then I'll engage further in the conversation.
  • IyasenuIyasenu
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    Hisame621 wrote: »
    Helsa, could you explain how the Tower Cylinder is used for Hydra damage? I don't actually know what you mean by that but im trying to cast Hydra with a Tower Cylinder installed.

    Tower Cylinder causes alchemy damage to increase just by having it in your hands.
    Because of how Hydra works, lay it down with a cylinder/guard cylinder, then switch weapons so you're holding a Tower Cylinder while Hydra is ticking damage.
    That's all to it. Having a Hydra already out them switching to the Guard Cylinder afterwards. Don't have to use Install Cylinder to get the boost, either.
    The boost is further increased if using an Ego Tower Cylinder.
    Hisame621
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    edited August 29, 2019
    Normal mobs and field bosses.
  • Hisame621Hisame621
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    Iyasenu wrote: »
    Hisame621 wrote: »
    Helsa, could you explain how the Tower Cylinder is used for Hydra damage? I don't actually know what you mean by that but im trying to cast Hydra with a Tower Cylinder installed.

    Tower Cylinder causes alchemy damage to increase just by having it in your hands.
    Because of how Hydra works, lay it down with a cylinder/guard cylinder, then switch weapons so you're holding a Tower Cylinder while Hydra is ticking damage.
    That's all to it. Having a Hydra already out them switching to the Guard Cylinder afterwards. Don't have to use Install Cylinder to get the boost, either.
    The boost is further increased if using an Ego Tower Cylinder.

    Thanks, I was literally asking Helsa for this answer, but I think she misinterpreted it as something personal.
  • Hisame621Hisame621
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    Mana Shield could use an uncap, I guess it doesn't really feel obsolete so I removed it. Regarding Hot Air Balloon, the problem I have is not the incentive, but that it has potential for more and it .
    With Rafting, one used to be able to gain Exploration Experience just from hitting the hobgoblins. That has been removed, giving players less reason to raft. Obviously there are reasons to do Hot Air Balloon and Raft, but they are few, and that's the point. That's what makes them feel obsolete. The reason I say every other combat skill except chain blade is because of how much of an advantage chain blade has over most combat skills. Myself for example, I love archery but if I want to get things done and do combat, archery becomes a waste of time because of how much faster I can get things done with chain blade. Most of my friends gave up their favorite talent for the same reasons. Some responses here are explanations of what the skills do or their uses but I feel like it doesn't change whether or not things feel obsolete. I think a better word instead of "obsolete" is Outdated so that's my mistake and I will correct it now.
    Anyway, thank you all for your feedback.
  • AmarazAmaraz
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    I'll agree with you on the Elf Magic Missile. It's so weak. And takes forever to charge up.
    Hisame621
  • WallSeriesWallSeries
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    g24 max roll reforge fully es erg 50 step7 double ele ego weapons solve everything, yikes...
    hailstorm takes too long to cast??? no problem
    puppet cant tank, die too fast?? no problem
    knuckle long animation and cd??? no problem
  • Hisame621Hisame621
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    edited August 30, 2019
    WallSeries wrote: »
    g24 max roll reforge fully es erg 50 step7 double ele ego weapons solve everything, yikes...
    hailstorm takes too long to cast??? no problem
    puppet cant tank, die too fast?? no problem
    knuckle long animation and cd??? no problem

    So the solution to a disbalance of talents in the game is to spend hundreds of dollars trying your best to fix it, and I say trying because it's all luck based, you could spend hundreds and never get the roll you want. Pretty sad if you ask me, you could probably buy a car and another computer, and a game console, and some games that might last you years without boring you. Just putting things into perspective here. Basically you don't mind that the game becomes Pay to Win. The money and time it takes to get to erg 50 is what im referring to and perhaps the reforges.
    Sherri
  • SherriSherri
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    WallSeries wrote: »
    g24 max roll reforge fully es erg 50 step7 double ele ego weapons solve everything, yikes...
    hailstorm takes too long to cast??? no problem
    puppet cant tank, die too fast?? no problem
    knuckle long animation and cd??? no problem

    Not worth the time or money.
    Not everyone is a whale you know.