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[UPDATE] Addition of Sales Tax When Purchasing NX

Comments

  • KatherzKatherz
    Mabinogi Rep: 19,610
    Posts: 1,306
    Member, Administrator, Nexon
    edited September 27, 2019
    [Updated Sept. 26] We will be performing a brief billing maintenance on Monday, September 30, 2019 at 2:00 PM PDT (5:00 PM EDT / 11:00 PM CEST / 7:00 AM Oct. 1 AEST). We anticipate the maintenance to last less than 30 minutes. During this time, players may experience issues charging NX, and should wait and try again after the maintenance. Once the maintenance is completed, players will be able to see the new UI added for determining sales tax.

    Note: No sales tax will be collected before Tuesday, October 1, 2019 at 12:00 AM PDT (3:00 AM EDT / 9:00 AM CEST / 5:00 PM AEST).
    Darkpixie99CrimsọnDANIartsKensamaofmariWolfsinger
  • DANIartsDANIarts
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,100
    Posts: 789
    Member
    Thank you for letting us know Katherz!(:
  • GameFactionsGameFactions
    Mabinogi Rep: 200
    Posts: 3
    Member
    O.o more reasons to lose players? Yey....
  • GameFactionsGameFactions
    Mabinogi Rep: 200
    Posts: 3
    Member
    Veylaine wrote: »
    DANIarts wrote: »
    I can understand how people can be salty about this situation, especially since it wasn't enforced sooner, but the reality is...
    taxes beat anything.
    We should give Nexon a break.
    It's not something they can avoid UNLESS they want so much legal issues going on.

    So i'm pretty much neutral about all this.
    if you don't wanna get taxed, dont buy NX.
    if anything just save up gold for what you want, because more than likely - as salty as people are about this - there's STILL going to be players who'll buy NX.
    Example being bobo, she's more than likely still going to buy NX to do gachas because of her YouTube content.
    which isn't a bad thing lmao.

    But yeah, it's your choice whether or not you wanna continue buying NX.
    Well, from a business standpoint, they'll wait as long as possible before enforcing government taxation requirements.

    I want to see the very same people complaining about Nexon to also not make purchases with any other vendor, because those vendors as well will be collecting sales tax on Oct 1, and no they don't have to tell you that they're collecting them. Nexon did everyone a favor by actually sending out a notice a week beforehand.

    Indeed I vaguely remember getting an email from newegg sometime ago mentioning this

    capture_3.JPG

    They have taxed me befor those dates...my new monitor x.x i was lucky they dropped the price because....the tax jacked it up again.
  • GameFactionsGameFactions
    Mabinogi Rep: 200
    Posts: 3
    Member
    This might start to feel like mobile games where it costs 80 dollars to get 1600 nx worth of points :S and they sell gachapons too x.x they should just straight up sell items we need with all these things going on. Mabi is fading away, so are its players....fair or unfair, it does not matter when you have no players.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,045
    Posts: 7,775
    Member
    This might start to feel like mobile games where it costs 80 dollars to get 1600 nx worth of points :S and they sell gachapons too x.x they should just straight up sell items we need with all these things going on. Mabi is fading away, so are its players....fair or unfair, it does not matter when you have no players.

    We'll start to see everything that we buy online get taxed, from computer, consoles, mobile. gachas, DLCs, brand new, play store, maybe even your orders on Amazon or wherever.
  • MaerLaMicheMaerLaMiche
    Mabinogi Rep: 925
    Posts: 13
    Member
    I don't understand what the big deal is. When you go to the store to buy something, you pay tax. When you're shopping online you pay a tax AND a shipping fee. It has nothing to do with Trump, or California, Nexon, or whatever nonsense you decided to blame it on. The fact that it has been tax free for so long is remarkable. A couple extra dollars isn't going to kill your bank account. If you say that it is, then you shouldn't be spending money on NX anyway, it's financially irresponsible. I hate paying sales tax as much as anyone else, I'm from Oregon but live in Washington, but there's a purpose for it. Seriously, get over it.
    DraechVeylaineFayeKaibaBuffalosDANIartsTheNyanCatWolfsingerRadiant DawnLiberate
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,045
    Posts: 7,775
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    I don't understand what the big deal is. When you go to the store to buy something, you pay tax. When you're shopping online you pay a tax AND a shipping fee. It has nothing to do with Trump, or California, Nexon, or whatever nonsense you decided to blame it on. The fact that it has been tax free for so long is remarkable. A couple extra dollars isn't going to kill your bank account. If you say that it is, then you shouldn't be spending money on NX anyway, it's financially irresponsible. I hate paying sales tax as much as anyone else, I'm from Oregon but live in Washington, but there's a purpose for it. Seriously, get over it.

    I don't think the issue is that there's a sales tax. Rather, before, governments could not collect sales tax from a company/vendor who made a sale/transaction outside the state they were located in. After the Supreme Court ruling on South Dakota v Wayfair in 2018, it granted states the right to collect sales tax on all transactions.

    The normal complaint on taxes is not that taxpayers are unwilling to pay taxes, but after they pay these taxes, they don't see this money being invested back into them.
  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,555
    Posts: 886
    Member
    edited September 27, 2019
    I don't understand what the big deal is. When you go to the store to buy something, you pay tax. When you're shopping online you pay a tax AND a shipping fee. It has nothing to do with Trump, or California, Nexon, or whatever nonsense you decided to blame it on. The fact that it has been tax free for so long is remarkable. A couple extra dollars isn't going to kill your bank account. If you say that it is, then you shouldn't be spending money on NX anyway, it's financially irresponsible. I hate paying sales tax as much as anyone else, I'm from Oregon but live in Washington, but there's a purpose for it. Seriously, get over it.

    This!
    This right here.
    Anyone blaming Nexon for following the law is laughable.
    DraechTheNyanCat
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 17,565
    Posts: 2,624
    Member
    I don't understand what the big deal is. When you go to the store to buy something, you pay tax. When you're shopping online you pay a tax AND a shipping fee. It has nothing to do with Trump, or California, Nexon, or whatever nonsense you decided to blame it on. The fact that it has been tax free for so long is remarkable. A couple extra dollars isn't going to kill your bank account. If you say that it is, then you shouldn't be spending money on NX anyway, it's financially irresponsible. I hate paying sales tax as much as anyone else, I'm from Oregon but live in Washington, but there's a purpose for it. Seriously, get over it.

    LOL 'financially irresponsible'
    guess people who make less $ can't buy NX anymore

    The more taxes we ignore and let them slide by, the more we'll get taxed in the future
    xSho76CrimsọnKensamaofmariChaosShadow
  • SebastianSebastian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,530
    Posts: 438
    Member
    Sherri wrote: »
    I don't understand what the big deal is. When you go to the store to buy something, you pay tax. When you're shopping online you pay a tax AND a shipping fee. It has nothing to do with Trump, or California, Nexon, or whatever nonsense you decided to blame it on. The fact that it has been tax free for so long is remarkable. A couple extra dollars isn't going to kill your bank account. If you say that it is, then you shouldn't be spending money on NX anyway, it's financially irresponsible. I hate paying sales tax as much as anyone else, I'm from Oregon but live in Washington, but there's a purpose for it. Seriously, get over it.

    LOL 'financially irresponsible'
    guess people who make less $ can't buy NX anymore

    The more taxes we ignore and let them slide by, the more we'll get taxed in the future

    Well, yeah, people who make less money really shouldn't be using it on things that aren't necessities. That goes for most things and not just NX. You should only ever be buying these things when you have your needs covered.

    Of course, people can completely ignore that and spend money on NX anyway. But it would be financially irresponsible.
    DraechVeylaineTheNyanCatBuffalosWolfsingerDANIartsRadiant DawnKensamaofmariLiberate
  • MaiaMaia
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,965
    Posts: 886
    Member
    A 5-10% tax isn't going to kill anyone. We already pay it on everything. Not to mention, it's kind of silly to think that this taxation is going to hurt lower income households when in fact it's lower income households which yield the most (proportional) tax breaks and get tax returns (therefore legally evading taxes). In the end, the poorest of people will probably be relatively unaffected by the new law. But lower income people are shorter sighted and likely won't think that far ahead (and will forget about where the money came from for their tax returns).

    I too am pretty surprised that online games have avoided taxes for so long. Maybe all the hype and talk about loot boxes drew the attention of law makers to the industry lol I also wouldn't doubt that the taxation of online merchandise is probably a bipartisan issue. It both favors states rights and taxation of "luxury" products. Also you'll find that both R and D states are mixed on their individual state laws regarding taxation of virtual content.
    SebastianVeylaineDANIartsWolfsinger
  • DarvhasDarvhas
    Mabinogi Rep: 525
    Posts: 7
    Member
    Yeah no. I don't care if "it's a miracle" that we've avoided it this long; it sets a precedent that gets worse and worse. The slippery slope fallacy is a real thing, and the more years that go by the more I get to see just how far capitalism's end game wants to push it. Hell, I hope more people get screwed over by life just so we can finally stand up for something rather than be complacent on the basis that "that's life". Things will never change for the better unless people are incited, so I suppose we just have to lose more and more until it gets to that point.
    xSho76CrimsọnSherri
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,755
    Posts: 1,230
    Member
    Life had been great not spending on NX, you should join too...till Nexon make the abysmal rates three times better or more.

    Make VIP updated, and stop with the dumb cash grab attempt by abandoning old features like the pon shop, beauty coupons? Really? what about our pons?

    Id stop much sooner because the moment beauty coupons exist, I know even more things will start to become bull.

    But what can I say? No one seem to listen to reason no more, go on...buy more NX with Tax for those who were not effected by it for a time. I was trying to save your wallets falling prey to RNG rates below 1%. No one loves rates below 1%...
    CrimsọnSherri
  • AgentJeanAgentJean
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,400
    Posts: 204
    Member
    edited September 29, 2019
    Nexon better be very careful with this because even in sales taxed states not everything is taxed.
    For example in Virginia, services are not taxed but sales of some digital goods are.
    For example if I buy a game off Steam that's taxed but paying for a Monthly subscription on something like Netflix or Xbox One Service are not taxed, nor are gift cards taxed.

    Taxing a Karma Koin card that was used to pay for a SERVICE could very well be illegal under Virginia Tax code and what is Nexon's VAs tax # anyways?

    The previously mentioned Court Case is license by the Supreme Court for tax embezzlement because companies could collect tax but never remit it to the thousands of tax zones in the US and no one would ever know.
    CrimsọnSherriDarkpixie99
  • DraechDraech
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,375
    Posts: 355
    Member
    AgentJean wrote: »
    Nexon better be very careful with this because even in sales taxed states not everything is taxed.
    For example in Virginia, services are not taxed but sales of some digital goods are.
    For example if I buy a game off Steam that's taxed but paying for a Monthly subscription on something like Netflix or Xbox One Service are not taxed, nor are gift cards taxed.

    Taxing a Karma Koin card that was used to pay for a SERVICE could very well be illegal under Virginia Tax code and what is Nexon's VAs tax # anyways?

    The previously mentioned Court Case is license by the Supreme Court for tax embezzlement because companies could collect tax but never remit it to the thousands of tax zones in the US and no one would ever know.

    Thing is, NX counts as a virtual good for all intents and purposes. It might not have a use other than for buying in the games' cash shops, however they are selling a virtual good rather than a service, and as such fall under no restriction regarding this.
    DANIartsDarkpixie99
  • TNinjaTNinja
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,945
    Posts: 1,157
    Member
    Considering they're dealing with literal law, I'm very very sure that they've hired enough lawyers to consult about what's legal or not.
    BuffalosVeylaineDarkpixie99
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,440
    Posts: 1,701
    Member
    edited September 29, 2019
    AgentJean wrote: »
    Nexon better be very careful with this because even in sales taxed states not everything is taxed.
    For example in Virginia, services are not taxed but sales of some digital goods are.
    For example if I buy a game off Steam that's taxed but paying for a Monthly subscription on something like Netflix or Xbox One Service are not taxed, nor are gift cards taxed.

    Taxing a Karma Koin card that was used to pay for a SERVICE could very well be illegal under Virginia Tax code and what is Nexon's VAs tax # anyways?

    The previously mentioned Court Case is license by the Supreme Court for tax embezzlement because companies could collect tax but never remit it to the thousands of tax zones in the US and no one would ever know.

    Virginia Taxation Law Gov Page
    B. The tax levied under this chapter shall be collectible from all persons that are marketplace facilitators that have sufficient contact with Virginia to require registration under subsection C.
    C. A marketplace facilitator shall be deemed to have sufficient activity within the Commonwealth to require registration under § 58.1-613 if it meets at least one requirement in each of subdivisions 1, 2, and 3:
    1c. Providing a virtual currency that purchasers are allowed or required to use to purchase products from the marketplace seller;

    H. When a marketplace seller that is not otherwise required to register for the collection of the tax under any of the provisions contained in subdivisions C 1 through 9 of § 58.1-612 makes both direct sales and sales on a marketplace facilitator's marketplace, only the marketplace seller's direct sales shall be considered in determining whether the marketplace seller is required to register for the collection of the tax under subdivision C 10 or 11 of § 58.1-612.

    Then there's also this line here:
    I. No class action shall be brought against a marketplace facilitator in any court of the Commonwealth on behalf of customers arising from or in any way related to an overpayment of sales and use tax collected on sales facilitated by the marketplace facilitator, regardless of whether such claim is characterized as a tax refund claim. Nothing in this subsection shall affect a customer's right to seek a refund on an individual basis.


    So this means that if you're in VA, you can technically ask Nexon for a legal refund if your child is addicted to loot boxes, or something of that nature. Oh, and the virtual market of NX is taxed. Hooray...
    Crimsọn
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,895
    Posts: 661
    Member
    edited September 30, 2019
    Disclaimer : This is not legal-advice. I do not offer legal-advice. If you need so-called legal-advice, then seek yourself a so-called competent lawyer or attorney or other such counsel, and feel free to be advised. What I am posting here is strictly for information and educational (and so-called entertainment) purposes only, and is not to be construed, nor mis-construed, as any so-called legal-advice.

    The fact that «definitions» are (surreptitiously) being changed over the generations to the point where present-day society seems to believe that Right means Left, Up means Down, Black is White, War is Peace, Ignorance is Strength, Freedom is Slavery, etc., is something that I absolutely cannot just ignore without needing to counter-act at least some of that self-destruction with corrections.

    Lawful does not mean Legal and Legal does not mean Lawful (but nearly all of the population since at least a few generations back have lacked the knowledge to know much about etymology and why many words that are regarded as synonyms are not actual synonyms). Tax only applies to so-called Debtors under Contract. Why in the world would you contract with «Taxing» entities ? Why not Rescind/Cancel the Signature/Contract or at least convert the «Status» of the Entity/Agency/Corporation to one that is Exempt From Levy and thus not liable to pay/collect Tax ? Actually, that would probably be too much detail to go over, for only one post, anyway.

    Etymology : I suspect that most of you reading this probably know next-to-nothing about that extremely deceptive «language» known as Legalese. Essentially, what you see/hear may sound like English, look like English, but, in fact, happens to be a completely foreign language that is not English (not the type that you are familiar with speaking in so-called common-parlance). Legalese also has its own «Rules of Grammar» which CHANGE THE MEANINGS OF WORDS, depending on its grammatical-construct, even to the point of certain key-words/phrases being «case-sensitive» (like many of your on-line passwords).

    ALL of the world's so-called «court-systems» are under an «international franchise» which is why the «court-proceedings» are more-or-less essentially the same world-wide (essentially like a one-world government/religion). All of the world's corporate-government contracts fall under the (unconstitutional) UNIDROIT system. Notice how the lines of «code» are «Copy-Righted» as are ALL «Statutes» of every so-called «State/Province»/etc. More on this another day (possibly).

    The fact that all «Statutes» are «CopyRighted» demonstrates an example of evidence which shows that all so-called States/Provinces/Governments are actually corporations as the «UNITED STATES» is also defined in Title 28 U.S. Code § 3002(15)(A)

    If I were Directing any Company/Corporation, with the knowledge that I have about Legalese and the «Contractual Nature» of «Tax» obligations to corporate-government «taxing» entities/agencies, not to mention the fact of my awareness of the «Karmic» consequences of funding what I regard as «extortionists (or extortionist corporate-government agencies/entities who are engaged in Daily Acts of Treason)» who do not have my Company's/Corporation's best interests in mind, I would probably take measures to re-negotiate a contract for the business to be or become or return to being Exempt From Levy (Tax-Exempt). Their corporate-government «Constitutions» are supposed to secure such a Protected Right for the Free Exercise of Conscience. Unfortunately, few people, even whole entire «Legal-Departments» of today's Organisations, are aware that those so-called «Government-Forms» can be «modified» to add/include relevant/pertinent information as a Contract in order to secure proper business-status (with actual Supreme-Court Rulings that can be cited on or appended to the page/forms to back up such Right-to-Contract).

    IF they are in need of $$$ from my company/business/corporation, they can ASK for $$$, and IF it is being used for a benign activity that benefits the community/society, then I would have no objections with my company/business/corporation funding any kind of «welfare» service/projects directly, whether it be to assist the local-hospitals with life-saving medical-supplies (but not psychotropic-drugs), repairing damage to the roads (which they really should already be doing with the fuel-excise tax that they get from people filling up their gas-tanks anyway as it is already FAR-more-than-enough to more-than-cover road-maintenance anyway), helping to provide Internet-access to the local-schools, etc.

    «Government derives its just powers from the consent of the governed» -The very first line of just about every so-called Constitution of every so-called State/Province/Government in/of the entire World... (which are all also apparently Copy-Righted... when it comes to the «Corporate» versions, anyway, not to be confused with the «Organic» versions of those so-called Constitutions)

    «A treaty is in its nature a contract between two nations, not a legislative act. It does not generally effect, of itself, the object to be accomplished, especially so far as its operation is infra-territorial; but is carried into execution by the sovereign power of the respective parties to the instrument.»
    Foster v. Neilson, 27 U.S. 253, 314 (1829)

    Elaboration according to https://www.haguelawblog.com/2018/09/treaty-just-contract-awfully-powerful-one/ ...
    —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
    A treaty in its nature is… not a legislative act. But by virtue of the Supremacy Clause, it takes on the authority of a legislative act because it is ratified with the consent of the legislature (or at least half of it) and becomes supreme law.** It thus overrides any lower authority in conflict with it.

    Obviously, the best example in my world: the Hague Service Convention, which technically forces U.S. rules to give way to foreign law.
    You read that correctly. Foreign law overrides U.S. law.
    —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
    Crimsọn
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,225
    Posts: 6,874
    Member
    edited September 30, 2019
    Jesus Christ. So happy i don't buy NX and don't care anymore. Unless they will pull out Shield Hero crossover event then i'm doomed... xD

    Oh and i see you are still here Crims :)
    CrimsọnDarkpixie99