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Gold bot destruction

AnimemabiAnimemabi
Mabinogi Rep: 970
Posts: 73
Member
could we get items that will mess with gold bots im tired of having to empty my blacklist constantly or hire a gm specifically to crash bots when they see them hell i would do it for free.

Comments

  • TimefallTimefall
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,370
    Posts: 102
    Member
    There have been many attempts, but the problem is, any item that can mess with bots can also mess with players. People have demonstrated that in the past when Bot Bombs were introduced, featuring a captcha. Players would knowingly use it on other players. Even if they enter the code correctly, having captcha pop up every 5 minutes that will petrify you if you get one wrong gets old fast when you're just minding your own business trying to talk to friends.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 33,160
    Posts: 7,643
    Member
    Timefall wrote: »
    There have been many attempts, but the problem is, any item that can mess with bots can also mess with players. People have demonstrated that in the past when Bot Bombs were introduced, featuring a captcha. Players would knowingly use it on other players. Even if they enter the code correctly, having captcha pop up every 5 minutes that will petrify you if you get one wrong gets old fast when you're just minding your own business trying to talk to friends.

    I think rather than making one freeze, wouldn't it be better to make them DC instead? There's plenty of private places to AFK. And if you plan to AFK, you can expect DCs to happen from time to time.
    Greta
  • TimefallTimefall
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,370
    Posts: 102
    Member
    Getting disconnected closes a shop. What if you're in town to speak to an NPC and poof, you find yourself disconnected? Not just once, but every 5 minutes that you're online, and various players repeatedly use the items on you for the fun of it. Even if you provide a captcha to escape disconnection, having to enter a code every few minutes to remain online isn't a fun thing.

    Also, bots would have no problem just logging back in immediately. The 'freezing' previously attempted prevented all actions, including speaking in local chat.
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 45,955
    Posts: 6,822
    Member
    edited April 29
    If there's a way for a system to know that the player hasn't moved for X time then i would say it's a good idea. And for a fact i know it's possible to make such thing to work since i knew games which could mark players who are away from keyboard for like ~5 minutes and next to their name they would get "AFK" or "Z". It's possible, but i don't think Nexon would work on this sadly.
  • TimefallTimefall
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,370
    Posts: 102
    Member
    I considered this when typing my previous reply, but then it occurred to me, this would only result the bots running in circles as they spam.

  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 33,160
    Posts: 7,643
    Member
    Timefall wrote: »
    Getting disconnected closes a shop. What if you're in town to speak to an NPC and poof, you find yourself disconnected? Not just once, but every 5 minutes that you're online, and various players repeatedly use the items on you for the fun of it. Even if you provide a captcha to escape disconnection, having to enter a code every few minutes to remain online isn't a fun thing.

    Also, bots would have no problem just logging back in immediately. The 'freezing' previously attempted prevented all actions, including speaking in local chat.

    If you're talking to a NPC, you should be active or locked in where others can't disturb you. And other functions like chat should be turned off while speaking with NPCs. Players/trolls shouldn't be able to bomb you if you're engaged in a conversation.I don't see that many stingy shop owners out there mending their shop, so there's no reason to AFK in the middle of town square if you have a shop.

    In the end the only way to truly prevent bots from being a nuisance in-game is to program AI that seeks out and gets rid of them.
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,635
    Posts: 609
    Member
    If it's about keeping «spam» off the screen then the developers could simply implement a «flood-detection/spam-detection» filter where you, the Milletian/player, can set the parameters on what you wish to auto-block. Parameters would be things like length of chat-message, number of chat-messages per X amount of seconds, etc. For the sake of being able to double-check the messages to make sure that you didn't miss anything important, there would be a separate and thus hidden chat-log for «spam-filtered» chat-messages, and opening it would only show the name of the character and total number of messages that made it into the hidden-log; if the name is obviously a spam-bot, you can safely ignore it, anyone on your friend-list would be white-listed, and anybody else whose message you decide to inspect can either be white-listed or you can just continue to ignore them and leave their messages in the hidden-log.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 33,160
    Posts: 7,643
    Member
    Habimaru wrote: »
    If it's about keeping «spam» off the screen then the developers could simply implement a «flood-detection/spam-detection» filter where you, the Milletian/player, can set the parameters on what you wish to auto-block. Parameters would be things like length of chat-message, number of chat-messages per X amount of seconds, etc. For the sake of being able to double-check the messages to make sure that you didn't miss anything important, there would be a separate and thus hidden chat-log for «spam-filtered» chat-messages, and opening it would only show the name of the character and total number of messages that made it into the hidden-log; if the name is obviously a spam-bot, you can safely ignore it, anyone on your friend-list would be white-listed, and anybody else whose message you decide to inspect can either be white-listed or you can just continue to ignore them and leave their messages in the hidden-log.

    You know how you can't type the same thing twice back to back? The main issue is the bots have been able to get past this. This has to be improved.
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,635
    Posts: 609
    Member
    This is why I made mention of a system that lets the players decide the parameters for what they consider spam... they could even make it paranoid enough to where anything more than a two-word sentence gets blocked/filtered out. Anything more than two words coming out in more than ten minutes for the super-anti-social and want to LOLdidn'tREAD.gif can pretty much have a way to auto-ignore almost the entire in-game chat altogether.

    In fact let the players even set up their own «word-filter» where they could put in themselves words or phrases such as «buy gold» is auto-hidden. Also, for the black-list, that could also be set up as a temporary list that expires after X amount of time or just have a second black-list that acts as a temporary chat-filter where the cache of names is then emptied and removed after a day or two (or week) so that it does its own self-maintenance.
    Habimaru wrote: »
    If it's about keeping «spam» off the screen then the developers could simply implement a «flood-detection/spam-detection» filter where you, the Milletian/player, can set the parameters on what you wish to auto-block. Parameters would be things like length of chat-message, number of chat-messages per X amount of seconds, etc. For the sake of being able to double-check the messages to make sure that you didn't miss anything important, there would be a separate and thus hidden chat-log for «spam-filtered» chat-messages, and opening it would only show the name of the character and total number of messages that made it into the hidden-log; if the name is obviously a spam-bot, you can safely ignore it, anyone on your friend-list would be white-listed, and anybody else whose message you decide to inspect can either be white-listed or you can just continue to ignore them and leave their messages in the hidden-log.
    You know how you can't type the same thing twice back to back? The main issue is the bots have been able to get past this. This has to be improved.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 33,160
    Posts: 7,643
    Member
    Habimaru wrote: »
    This is why I made mention of a system that lets the players decide the parameters for what they consider spam... they could even make it paranoid enough to where anything more than a two-word sentence gets blocked/filtered out. Anything more than two words coming out in more than ten minutes for the super-anti-social and want to LOLdidn'tREAD.gif can pretty much have a way to auto-ignore almost the entire in-game chat altogether.

    In fact let the players even set up their own «word-filter» where they could put in themselves words or phrases such as «buy gold» is auto-hidden. Also, for the black-list, that could also be set up as a temporary list that expires after X amount of time or just have a second black-list that acts as a temporary chat-filter where the cache of names is then emptied and removed after a day or two (or week) so that it does its own self-maintenance.
    Habimaru wrote: »
    If it's about keeping «spam» off the screen then the developers could simply implement a «flood-detection/spam-detection» filter where you, the Milletian/player, can set the parameters on what you wish to auto-block. Parameters would be things like length of chat-message, number of chat-messages per X amount of seconds, etc. For the sake of being able to double-check the messages to make sure that you didn't miss anything important, there would be a separate and thus hidden chat-log for «spam-filtered» chat-messages, and opening it would only show the name of the character and total number of messages that made it into the hidden-log; if the name is obviously a spam-bot, you can safely ignore it, anyone on your friend-list would be white-listed, and anybody else whose message you decide to inspect can either be white-listed or you can just continue to ignore them and leave their messages in the hidden-log.
    You know how you can't type the same thing twice back to back? The main issue is the bots have been able to get past this. This has to be improved.

    I think your option, which as useful as it is, is more of a cover on the problem. It merely just covers the problem. We need a solution to get rid of these bots in general.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 15,425
    Posts: 3,364
    Member
    edited April 29
    Timefall wrote: »
    Getting disconnected closes a shop. What if you're in town to speak to an NPC and poof, you find yourself disconnected? Not just once, but every 5 minutes that you're online, and various players repeatedly use the items on you for the fun of it. Even if you provide a captcha to escape disconnection, having to enter a code every few minutes to remain online isn't a fun thing.

    Also, bots would have no problem just logging back in immediately. The 'freezing' previously attempted prevented all actions, including speaking in local chat.

    Yeah you're right, the bot bombs were a good idea, on paper, but internet has griefers. When was the last time anyone here reported a bot? If folks remain diligent, it will work. If you look at the URL these bots are asking you to visit, it's always the same one. Have you noticed the prices? They have been between 9 and 11 USD for 10M gold for almost 10 years now. Since the value of your real money, via gold sellers, is constantly dropping, due to in-game inflation, this has dried up the market for bot gold, and sent a lot of it to the web-shop. See? In-game inflation is a good thing <winkie-woo>. Anyway, this all tells me that the gold farmer is very likely just one guy. The number of accounts you can possibly own, because of the limit on the amount you are allowed to make per year, is limited. Does that make sense the way I said it? So, just keep hammering him.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 33,160
    Posts: 7,643
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    Timefall wrote: »
    Getting disconnected closes a shop. What if you're in town to speak to an NPC and poof, you find yourself disconnected? Not just once, but every 5 minutes that you're online, and various players repeatedly use the items on you for the fun of it. Even if you provide a captcha to escape disconnection, having to enter a code every few minutes to remain online isn't a fun thing.

    Also, bots would have no problem just logging back in immediately. The 'freezing' previously attempted prevented all actions, including speaking in local chat.

    Yeah you're right, the bot bombs were a good idea, on paper, but internet has griefers. When was the last time anyone here reported a bot? If folks remain diligent, it will work. If you look at the URL these bots are asking you to visit, it's always the same one. Have you noticed the prices? They have been between 9 and 11 USD for 10M gold for almost 10 years now. Since the value of your real money, via gold sellers, is constantly dropping, due to in-game inflation, this has dried up the market for bot gold, and sent a lot of it to the web-shop. See? In-game inflation is a good thing <winkie-woo>. Anyway, this all tells me that the gold farmer is very likely just one guy. The number of accounts you can possibly own, because of the limit on the amount you are allowed to make per year, is limited. Does that make sense the way I said it? So, just keep hammering him.

    Does that also explain the strategy of Nexon pumping gold to players nonstop?
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,635
    Posts: 609
    Member
    Bots are always going to be found on anything free-to-play (probably). Comes with the territory after all (probably).
    Rather than forcing subscriptions onto everyone though, also which still wouldn't eliminate the existence of bots, considering that those spammer-bots are mostly doing an activity called advertising (for RMT), I don't know if Nexon has ever invested into «Artificial-Intelligence» but I've considered (for other reasons) that the existence of self-learning A.I. characters within the game would be like one of the coolest things, ever, and some could be designated to be «patrol-A.I.s» who are able to recognise potential «bots/botters» and the A.I. then initiates conversation with said potential bot which could go something like...:

    A.I. : «You! Halt! What do you think you're doing!?»
    Bot : «Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, etc.»
    A.I.: «You're being too loud right now. Please be silent for just a moment?»
    Bot : «Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, etc.»
    A.I.: «I see you're still on-going with "unintelligible" way of talking.»
    Bot : «Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, etc.»
    A.I.: «You have been warned! I will now start collecting evidence on you.»
    Bot : «Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, etc.»
    A.I.: Goes and asks a few random Milletians who have significant journal-points and were detected to have been active (non-AFK) within the last 30 seconds within the same town... «Excuse me, [player-name], could you please tell me if [suspected bot-name] is a genuine Milletian or some imposter?»
    Legit Milletian-Player: Prompted to Start Quest Assist The A.I. Guard which would prompt with options if accepted... «Yes, that seems to be fake, and not a real Milletian.» or «I am sorry, but that is a real Milletian, probably talking nonsense and ignoring you.»

    If Yes then...
    A.I.: «Thank you for your assistance in helping me confirm my case against [suspected bot-name].»
    A.I.: «You will be rewarded for your contribution to this matter. Goddess bless you, Milletian!»
    (Reward-Choices : Adventurer-Seals, Ducats, Skill-Training Seal, Event-Token, or whatever DevCAT decides [Note: Event-Token = consumable item that auto-completes all requirements for all Event-Quests for any one particular day when an Event is Running or how-ever Nexon decides])
    AI. Character then goes off to confirm with two more non-AFK Milletians with significant journal-points...
    ...upon at least 3 legitimate players confirming that [suspected bot-name] is indeed a spam-bot, fake Milletian, illegitimate, etc., the AI.-Character then goes back to the [suspected bot-name] character...: «You're under arrest for Impersonation of Milletian!» A.I.-Character then drags said character off to a Dungeon and a server-wide message is displayed : «[suspected bot-name] has just been sent to the Imposter's Dungeon!» (locked up there like being in jail and all forms of transport/warp/etc. disabled when IN said dungeon).
    Just in case there is ever a situation where an actual legitimate Milletian was falsely arrested, powerful Milletians could then initiate a «Rescue the Imprisoned Milletian» quest to help them escape, and they would go through a multi-floor Veteran-style dungeon (four-player minimum up to 8 max PT-members) to help their friend or legit-player escape from in-game purgatory (thus saving any legit Milletians from having to submit a ticket). At any time any Milletian can go to the Management-Office for the Imposter's Dungeon and inquire as to all of the names of those being held in said Dungeon & decide if they wish to initiate quest or not.

    If No then...:
    A.I.: «I see. I am actually rather hurt that [falsely suspected player-name] thought I'm not worth his/her time...»
    A.I.: «Alright, then, thanks anyway for your assistance in this matter!»
    A.I.: «You will be rewarded for contribution in this matter & helping me learn more about you wonderful Milletians!»
    A.I.-character goes back to his patrols or double-checks with the next Milletian about whether [suspected bot-name] is an imposter.

    I also think it would be pretty damn cool if I could invite these A.I.-characters into my PT for dungeon-runs, shadow-missions, raids, etc., and have actual real conversations with them like they were actual players, hopefully something more sensible and intelligent than talking to CleverBot of course...
    Habimaru wrote: »
    This is why I made mention of a system that lets the players decide the parameters for what they consider spam... they could even make it paranoid enough to where anything more than a two-word sentence gets blocked/filtered out. Anything more than two words coming out in more than ten minutes for the super-anti-social and want to LOLdidn'tREAD.gif can pretty much have a way to auto-ignore almost the entire in-game chat altogether.

    In fact let the players even set up their own «word-filter» where they could put in themselves words or phrases such as «buy gold» is auto-hidden. Also, for the black-list, that could also be set up as a temporary list that expires after X amount of time or just have a second black-list that acts as a temporary chat-filter where the cache of names is then emptied and removed after a day or two (or week) so that it does its own self-maintenance.
    Habimaru wrote: »
    If it's about keeping «spam» off the screen then the developers could simply implement a «flood-detection/spam-detection» filter where you, the Milletian/player, can set the parameters on what you wish to auto-block. Parameters would be things like length of chat-message, number of chat-messages per X amount of seconds, etc. For the sake of being able to double-check the messages to make sure that you didn't miss anything important, there would be a separate and thus hidden chat-log for «spam-filtered» chat-messages, and opening it would only show the name of the character and total number of messages that made it into the hidden-log; if the name is obviously a spam-bot, you can safely ignore it, anyone on your friend-list would be white-listed, and anybody else whose message you decide to inspect can either be white-listed or you can just continue to ignore them and leave their messages in the hidden-log.
    You know how you can't type the same thing twice back to back? The main issue is the bots have been able to get past this. This has to be improved.
    I think your option, which as useful as it is, is more of a cover on the problem. It merely just covers the problem. We need a solution to get rid of these bots in general.
  • IcezeroIcezero
    Mabinogi Rep: 830
    Posts: 13
    Member
    Maybe they should censor gibberish? Like super long text or something.
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 15,425
    Posts: 3,364
    Member
    Icezero wrote: »
    Maybe they should censor gibberish? Like super long text or something.

    Mhm, especially when its a complete 90º change of topic.
    TsjezVW.gif
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 33,160
    Posts: 7,643
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    Icezero wrote: »
    Maybe they should censor gibberish? Like super long text or something.

    Mhm, especially when its a complete 90º change of topic.
    TsjezVW.gif

    Well they've already refused to post long sentences in normal for regular people. So how are bots doing it? They're finding ways to bypass this.
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,635
    Posts: 609
    Member
    If I already have 5000+ Journal Points and have completed at least 90% of the existing Generations it should be obvious to the «system» by now that I am not some sort of bot. Are you saying that there are bots that are somehow still sending out chat-texts which go through where-as if I typed a normal, non-gibberish text of the same length, mine would not go through ? Perhaps you could screen-shot this so we can count the character-length of their strings of sentences ?
    Helsa wrote: »
    Icezero wrote: »
    Maybe they should censor gibberish? Like super long text or something.

    Mhm, especially when its a complete 90º change of topic.
    TsjezVW.gif
    Well they've already refused to post long sentences in normal for regular people. So how are bots doing it? They're finding ways to bypass this.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 33,160
    Posts: 7,643
    Member
    Habimaru wrote: »
    If I already have 5000+ Journal Points and have completed at least 90% of the existing Generations it should be obvious to the «system» by now that I am not some sort of bot. Are you saying that there are bots that are somehow still sending out chat-texts which go through where-as if I typed a normal, non-gibberish text of the same length, mine would not go through ? Perhaps you could screen-shot this so we can count the character-length of their strings of sentences ?
    Helsa wrote: »
    Icezero wrote: »
    Maybe they should censor gibberish? Like super long text or something.

    Mhm, especially when its a complete 90º change of topic.
    TsjezVW.gif
    Well they've already refused to post long sentences in normal for regular people. So how are bots doing it? They're finding ways to bypass this.

    There was a thread in help a few weeks ago that said this.Someone typed their usual long sentences and it would not show. i tried it once and it also did not show.
    I'm sure bots have edited the structure of their ads to bypass this because as anyone can see, their ads are still being posted nonstop.