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Possible Elf Rework Soon?

VasumatiVasumati
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edited September 28, 2020 in General Chat
Humans seem to recieve balance patches here and there. They had one beforehand with FH adding a multiplier (it used to jsut do the damage of your basic attacks) and some other thigns i may have forgotten. Then the giants had their big renewal, we are all familiar with that. Then giants had another sort of buff, by adding in Final Strike and the windguard changes... at the same time changing humans Final Hit again (to allow to use with 2H or 1 Hand weapons)... So when are the elves going to get some balance patches?? It's long overdue. Personally, i'd like to see their melee multipliers bumbed up jsut a LITTLE bit... i understand they are suppossed to be the worst at it and i respect that vision; but on some skills they are like 200 or more below giants multipliers. I'd like it if they could dual wield as well. Even if it's Elven only Equips (like the scimitar). I'd also like to see archery get some kind of updates, it's a bit wonky to use and requires massive amounts of investment. Considering shurikens and guns require no aim at all and always hit.. i'm sure something can be done to boost archery; can't think of anything myself atm though. It would be nice also if Elves could excel at maybe one other talent besides archery. Maybe make them excel at chains or something. I know you might want to say they are better at magic than others, but that is really only marginally. They just have a higher base int than the other races.. but the amount of int gained from skills is the exact same for all races. This is why giants can be perfectly acceptable mages as well. I'd also like to see elves get some kind of new race only skill as well.. since giants have quite a few now. And i'd like to see elves get some good Elven only gear. Elves have... the scimitar, and some clothes (and whiel we are on the subject, humans only get some standar heavy armours and the dirk and i think its the noble sword? all garbage). Giants get that collasial valiance and the massive despair stuff... Give elves some love nexon. Does anyone have any kind of inkling about if/when Elves are going to get some kind of buff??
Sherri

Comments

  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
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    edited September 28, 2020
    No. :trollface:
  • roseangelroseangel
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    elves def need a few tweaks imo. being able to dual wield, better elf only equipment, and being able to excel at another talent besides archery would all be nice. idk if we need to boost archery though and i'm not sure about changing melee multipliers
    Vasumati
  • VasumatiVasumati
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    roseangel wrote: »
    elves def need a few tweaks imo. being able to dual wield, better elf only equipment, and being able to excel at another talent besides archery would all be nice. idk if we need to boost archery though and i'm not sure about changing melee multipliers

    Yeah. I was thinking about it some more, and think final shot should just add a 100% aim modifier; as in, you can't miss during the duration. Either that, or some kind of automatic teleport if youre about to get hit.

    I still think the elves melee multipliers could be brought up a bit. Fo example, an elfs wm only does 0.8x damage of a humans. It could be brought to 0.9
    Not only are their multipliers lower, but they can only gain up to 800-ish str from talents and skills. Humans i believe where 1.1k and giants where 1.2k or so. In contrast, giants only can 800 dex, but they dont use dex at all and as a stat its not very useful, it just does that miniscule armour pierce (balance is reduntant becuse weapon masteries). Str contributes to attack as well as def., While elves also get the lowest base def and bonus def from def skill.
    roseangel
  • VasumatiVasumati
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    edited September 28, 2020
    I should also mention that giants 'downside' is no archery. But then there's throwing attack...
    Throwing attack loads instantly, fires instantly and cant miss (it TECHNICALLY can... Its happened to me twice in nine years or so...). It has a damage multiplier of 900% and scales with str. All that on a 5 second cooldown (zero on ego). Id hardly call throwing attack a 'downside'.

    Meanwhile elves have nothing comparable, and are doomed to always be behind in melee no matter the weapon or enchant simply because of the modifiers.

    The modifiers need to be fixed, and elven only swords scale off dex rather than str. Take a page from dark souls, all the curved swords are dex scaling. Elves have the scimitar...
    Change scimitar to dex, let it be spec. upped. Add a new sword, the falchion. Make it comparable to frosted borealis weapons; and let elves dual wield them if desired.

    They can still be the weakest at melee; but theres no need for them to be shafted like they are now. You know the giants high modifiers on melee is suppsosed to be because of their size... Elves are the same size as human. There's no reason for them to be like they are now. Just keep it so they can't use two handed and still can't lance, but let them dual wield and bumb up the modifiers so they are just a hair under what humans are. That would be perfectly acceptable.

    *edited for typos
  • justshowingjustshowing
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    edited September 29, 2020
    If the devs see there needs to be a rework for elves they would have done so that balances everyone else with the updates. At least that's what I noticed from the archery update. They reworked throwing attack with that update which made no damn since.. It's not archery.

    I gave up on an update that focus specifically for elves. Giant always gets stronger while elves seem to need to focus on utility skills to get things done.

    Glad I like to draw, cause devs won't provide that perfect elf niche I've been looking for.

    Edit:
    Oh as for a "melee" weapon for elves.. try a spirit shuriken and focus on the left slots for damage and crits. There's a bonus damage if you have extra dex, check the wiki.
    roseangelWolfsingerSherri
  • VasumatiVasumati
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    If the devs see there needs to be a rework for elves they would have done so that balances everyone else with the updates. At least that's what I noticed from the archery update. They reworked throwing attack with that update which made no damn since.. It's not archery.

    I gave up on an update that focus specifically for elves. Giant always gets stronger while elves seem to need to focus on utility skills to get things done.

    Glad I like to draw, cause devs won't provide that perfect elf niche I've been looking for.

    Edit:
    Oh as for a "melee" weapon for elves.. try a spirit shuriken and focus on the left slots for damage and crits. There's a bonus damage if you have extra dex, check the wiki.

    That's pretty cool, wasn't aware of that one. Honestly if i even make an elf ill probably just end up using chains as my backup anyways... But its a damn shame. Melee is probably my favourite skillset in the game. It just clicks. Theoritically, elves have the lowest str and will so they would technichally be the worst at ninja as well.

    Interestingly though, elves get a massive strength bonus from shine of eweca. Too bad that requires 40k total.
  • Gaby5011Gaby5011
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    Make range cooldown a little longer and never miss. Or have final shot 100% hit accuracy like mentioned previously on this post. I hate range because I'll miss 5 times in a row at 70% aim. That's why I went mage.
    Sherri
  • WolfsingerWolfsinger
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    Gaby5011 wrote: »
    Make range cooldown a little longer and never miss. Or have final shot 100% hit accuracy like mentioned previously on this post. I hate range because I'll miss 5 times in a row at 70% aim. That's why I went mage.

    I got so frustrated with archery I kinda abandoned it XD I get by with chains and mage, its actually painful remembering there are other skills I need to level, because I have to change my entire fighting style to do that.
  • VasumatiVasumati
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    The milletans are immortal gods that rebirth thousands of times, keeping a lifetime of memories and skills with them, but they still cant land an arrow half the time. But shooting guns and throwing shurikens and never missing?? No problem we got it. Honestly, bows just need a rework.
    The downsides of an elf vs the downsides of a giant are way too un-balanced. They really need to be looked at. Elves have the most cons out of any race and thier benefit is being good at one of the worst talents in the game.
  • Pip-BoyPip-Boy
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    edited September 30, 2020
    Archery has usability issues in North America but don't expect that to be fixed any time soon or at all since it works as intended and is very powerful in Korea.

    If there's one thing that's often overlooked about the Elves is that they have the highest movement speed. There's a reason why people pay hundreds of millions for Grade S Wave Sweepers; the positioning advantage it gives you is huge. With spellwalk for instance they become nigh untouchable magic spammers. Fully decked out Elves are arguably the best magic users in the game. This also applies to Alchemy with the new guard cylinders that reduce load time giving you more opportunities to reposition.

    Their disadvantages with melee aren't that crippling since melee is outshined very easily. An ego staff does far better than melee at clearing any content barring Tech Duin where the meta strategies don't require much melee at all but instead rely grouping skills and multipliers like Death Mark, Rage Impact and sometimes Support shot.
    AlmostNotsuper
  • justshowingjustshowing
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    edited September 30, 2020
    @Vasumati

    i left out chains deliberately, even giants can benefit from chains if they do dex centered talents. and your right about the lack of str of course. but i dont use shurikens for damage, shadow binds title is great for dungeons and missions.

    also, i'd like to add random info about the metallic arrows you can get from the jousting shop for only 2 points.
    they are missing an important fact about you get 10% aim bonus.
    (if the enemy running at you, if you have enough distance, you'll get 100% max aim if you wait. but you got to watch for the smoke animation under your feet to make sure you wont miss)

    i paired metallic arrows with my spirit bow with ultimate unlocked for it. and i dont need vision as much anymore.
    AlmostNotsuper
  • HelsaHelsa
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    It's a never-ending cycle in this game since the playable races have more than cosmetic differences; they can never be equal. There will always be one that's best at PvP, one that's best at PvE, and one that's best in groups. This is why unlimited race change at rebirth should be a thing. In the mean time the best that they can do is make sure that none is best in two of those categories.
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
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    edited September 30, 2020
    Pip-Boy wrote: »
    Archery has usability issues in North America but don't expect that to be fixed any time soon or at all since it works as intended and is very powerful in Korea.

    If there's one thing that's often overlooked about the Elves is that they have the highest movement speed. There's a reason why people pay hundreds of millions for Grade S Wave Sweepers; the positioning advantage it gives you is huge. With spellwalk for instance they become nigh untouchable magic spammers. Fully decked out Elves are arguably the best magic users in the game. This also applies to Alchemy with the new guard cylinders that reduce load time giving you more opportunities to reposition.

    This guy said what I wanted to say, but more concisely. I'd like to point out that while there are things that alleviate the problems with archery (ER reforges, erg), none of them are easily obtained, and archery is pretty unreliable without them.
    Vasumati wrote: »
    I should also mention that giants 'downside' is no archery. But then there's throwing attack...
    Throwing attack loads instantly, fires instantly and cant miss (it TECHNICALLY can... Its happened to me twice in nine years or so...). It has a damage multiplier of 900% and scales with str. All that on a 5 second cooldown (zero on ego). Id hardly call throwing attack a 'downside'.

    Yeah. This would've been OK if we were still limited to a single ego, but it's kinda broken now.

    It's like if only elves got bash, and it scaled off dex instead of str (although, close combat with only bash would be pretty bad against most things).
    @Vasumati

    i left out chains deliberately, even giants can benefit from chains if they do dex centered talents. and your right about the lack of str of course. but i dont use shurikens for damage, shadow binds title is great for dungeons and missions.

    also, i'd like to add random info about the metallic arrows you can get from the jousting shop for only 2 points.
    they are missing an important fact about you get 10% aim bonus.
    (if the enemy running at you, if you have enough distance, you'll get 100% max aim if you wait. but you got to watch for the smoke animation under your feet to make sure you wont miss)

    i paired metallic arrows with my spirit bow with ultimate unlocked for it. and i dont need vision as much anymore.

    https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Stats_and_Skills#Strength
    https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Stats_and_Skills#Dexterity

    Giants have more of a dex deficit than elves do a str deficit (scroll down to see the totals). Elves definitely have a stat advantage for chainblades, and dex accounts for more of the damage than luck does. You can't say that giants are better off than elves because they have an advantage in hybrid talents that rely on str, and not acknowledge when elves have such an advantage.

    Although, you might argue that this makes up for it, if the part about chainblades is true.

    Also, that's a neat trick with the metallic arrows. I'd forgotten about those.
    justshowing
  • justshowingjustshowing
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    Also, that's a neat trick with the metallic arrows. I'd forgotten about those.

    no trick, the game just didn't say it in the metal arrows description. it surprises a lot of players. and i honestly believe if we could craft/obtain arrows with 10% aim bonus we'd have more archers in the western servers
  • VasumatiVasumati
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    Well those metallic arrows are very interesting. I was looking more into ego's and saw that one of the ultimate skills says something like 'attack without consuming ammo'. Does this happen 100% of the time?? Could you really just buy 1 mettalic arrow and be all set?? Because i hate jousting. I'm not sure how that ego thing functions though.
  • VasumatiVasumati
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    And another thing. When speaking to one of the giant npcs (i believe krug) withe twin sword keyword, he mentions giants cant dual wield swords because it requires too much DEXTERITY. the elves are suppossed to be physically weak, but most of the shields in the game weigh more thn a second sword would. If anything, elves should ONLY be allowed to dual wield swords, and *maybe* use small shields only. This would really help emphasize the 'ranger' roll as well.

    If only we accounted for more than 4% of nexon KR profits, maybe then they'd actually listen to some of USA suggestions..
  • justshowingjustshowing
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    Yes, with spirit bows ultimate you don't ever need to buy more arrows again.

    Win jousting one time to get the arrows and with that spirit bow archery at level 63 it becomes a lot easier.

    Elves don't need to duel wield anything, let's be real.. It would only serve to make them look more impressive then they really are at close combat.

    Trust me, if you really want archery to work as an elf. Spirit bow with metallic arrows makes archery easier
  • VasumatiVasumati
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    edited October 2, 2020
    Yes, with spirit bows ultimate you don't ever need to buy more arrows again.

    Win jousting one time to get the arrows and with that spirit bow archery at level 63 it becomes a lot easier.

    Elves don't need to duel wield anything, let's be real.. It would only serve to make them look more impressive then they really are at close combat.

    Trust me, if you really want archery to work as an elf. Spirit bow with metallic arrows makes archery easier

    Its got nothing to do with looks. Dual wielding increases damage significantly, while allowing you you to get double the hits in. (Triple with N+1)
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
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    Vasumati wrote: »
    Its got nothing to do with looks. Dual wielding increases damage significantly, while allowing you you to get double the hits in. (Triple with N+1)

    All the more reason why elves shouldn't be dual wielding.

    Not that it matters anyway; you could be bashing right now. As the game is currently, there's no good reason to dual wield except to FH.
  • PolicromaPolicroma
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    edited October 2, 2020
    I will admit I'm one of those elf characters who wants dual wielding for "the looks", as I have always loved the trope of the elf archer who pulls out a pair of knives when the action gets too close. And thus the inability for an elf to use some kind of dual wielding has always bugged me to a point, as Mabinogi is seemingly the only fantasy game in the freakin' universe where *only* elves cannot do this.

    Sadly, I doubt it will happen at this point, and if it was, it'd probably be heavily nerfed. The way the Koreans play elves is too freakin' powerful. All balances and adjustments are an attempt to bring other races *up* to that point. Korea's idea of giving elves a melee boost was to bring us chainblade and add those "Tech" skills.

    Way back in the day, I upgraded and enchanted the hell out of a Chef's Passion to get an enormous STR and Damage boost out of it. While this did work out fine in SMs and still works against smaller enemies, it lacks the ability to do special upgrades, reforges, erg, or spirits, and thus it doesn't hold up to the amount of damage you're expected to put out in higher level bosses. Meanwhile a good shot from my Bhafel Hunter, assuming good conditions, buff stacking, etc. will put out a 90k+ hit. (I am not by any means "min/maxed" nor do I have the absolute best gear, enchants, or reforges. I'm too much of a cheapskate to go for max rolls unless I can buy them off other players for cheap.) Add Ladeca for some good spammy fun, and Final Shot for situations where you can't use it. If you've got some humans or other distractions with you for crowd control, you're destroying enemies.

    Keep in mind that people who go all out with perfect rolls, enchants, reforges, food, whatnot, can end up with individual hits of over 300k. Imagine that with Ladeca spam? Combine with Final Shot? Yeah, it's too powerful.

    Another person made the point of being able to spellwalk with full elf running speed. I've done it myself, against those bone dragons in Sidhe. Yes, it's likely more powerful than it should be.

    I really do want dual wielding for character purposes, but it seems Mabi's most recent attempt at a compromise on this is certain types of shuriken skins. (Example, the Elegant Lotus skin converts a shuriken into a pair of chakrams.) I'll take it for now, if grudgingly. Gives me an excuse to get better at those ninja skills. And hey, if nothing else, I got my special upgrades, reforges, erg, and spirit.
    roseangel