Check out all of the details of this month's Patch Notes, featuring the Reflections: Reforged update!
https://mabinogi.nexon.net/news/69963/reflections-reforged-patch-notes-november-4th-2021
[NEW MILLETIANS] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the Nexon Forums Code of Conduct. You have to register before you can post, so you can log in or create a forum name above to proceed. Thank you for your visit!

Possible Elf Rework Soon?

Comments

  • VasumatiVasumati
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,175
    Posts: 76
    Member
    edited October 2, 2020
    Policroma wrote: »
    I will admit I'm one of those elf characters who wants dual wielding for "the looks", as I have always loved the trope of the elf archer who pulls out a pair of knives when the action gets too close. And thus the inability for an elf to use some kind of dual wielding has always bugged me to a point, as Mabinogi is seemingly the only fantasy game in the freakin' universe where *only* elves cannot do this.

    Sadly, I doubt it will happen at this point, and if it was, it'd probably be heavily nerfed. The way the Koreans play elves is too freakin' powerful. All balances and adjustments are an attempt to bring other races *up* to that point. Korea's idea of giving elves a melee boost was to bring us chainblade and add those "Tech" skills.

    Way back in the day, I upgraded and enchanted the hell out of a Chef's Passion to get an enormous STR and Damage boost out of it. While this did work out fine in SMs and still works against smaller enemies, it lacks the ability to do special upgrades, reforges, erg, or spirits, and thus it doesn't hold up to the amount of damage you're expected to put out in higher level bosses. Meanwhile a good shot from my Bhafel Hunter, assuming good conditions, buff stacking, etc. will put out a 90k+ hit. (I am not by any means "min/maxed" nor do I have the absolute best gear, enchants, or reforges. I'm too much of a cheapskate to go for max rolls unless I can buy them off other players for cheap.) Add Ladeca for some good spammy fun, and Final Shot for situations where you can't use it. If you've got some humans or other distractions with you for crowd control, you're destroying enemies.

    Keep in mind that people who go all out with perfect rolls, enchants, reforges, food, whatnot, can end up with individual hits of over 300k. Imagine that with Ladeca spam? Combine with Final Shot? Yeah, it's too powerful.

    Another person made the point of being able to spellwalk with full elf running speed. I've done it myself, against those bone dragons in Sidhe. Yes, it's likely more powerful than it should be.

    I really do want dual wielding for character purposes, but it seems Mabi's most recent attempt at a compromise on this is certain types of shuriken skins. (Example, the Elegant Lotus skin converts a shuriken into a pair of chakrams.) I'll take it for now, if grudgingly. Gives me an excuse to get better at those ninja skills. And hey, if nothing else, I got my special upgrades, reforges, erg, and spirit.

    The thing is in the grand scheme of things, dual wielding wouldn't make a MASSIVE difference, because the multipliers on elf melee skills. At best it would probably equate to a human wielding a one handed weapon and a shield, in terms of power. All it would do is allow elf players that actually enjoy melee combat, is to not be so far behind everyone else during runs. It would just make it 'okay'; and that's fine.

    And yeah, the shurikens are an 'okay' way to do it with skins, considering ego lets you scale it with dex. It's still not the same though...

    I just wish the mabi elves where the typical 'rangers', and not just dedicated archer archetype. Not everyone wants to use archery/magic; but loves elves in general.
    Kittymewmew
  • VasumatiVasumati
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,175
    Posts: 76
    Member
    edited October 3, 2020
    And everyone always talks about the elves being OP at archery... there's nothing that elves do that makes them better at it besides a single variable: magnum shot cooldown. To my understanding, at late game the only two archery skills that matter are crash shot and magnum yes?? If that is true, there is absolutely no reason that a human can't do the exact same damage numbers. They can get the same amount of dex as elves. Neither of those two skills have different modifiers for different races, bar the cooldown on mag. I'm assumning a human can jsut get mag cooldown and voila: it's the same damn thing. Excluding final shot, humans and elves aren't really that different at archery. To my understanding, no one uses normal ranged attacks. Even then, humans actually aim their normal ranged attacks faster, even if they only fire one arrow. But this is redundant as you can just use Arrow Revolver as your basic attack instead. So Elves have mirage missle which i've heard people say is useless. Pretty much that jsut leaves elves with final shot. I can't really comment on this skill as i've never used it. But jsut looking at a comparison of the way skills actually function and their damage modifiers, i don't see a reason why humans can't do the exact same thing elves can with archery. I would say that because of that, it would be a bad reason to say that 'elves are too powerful archers to let them dual wield'. Of course i've never done late game archery, this is all jsut based on thing i have seen and readign things people have said. Correct me if i'm wrong, pelase.

    Giants are clearly the strongrest race right now, and i am not saying that they are overpowered; rather that elves are underpowered and need to be brought up to that level.

    Edit: i jsut took a quick look through the archery skills, there is no race modifiers on any of them at all, except for mag cooldown on elf. Interestingly, 'ranged attack' for humans could arguably be better. Not the actual attack itself, but the skill. Considering this skill is your min and max damage for *all* archery, and your aiming speed for *all* your skills; would you rather have 16 min and 34 max with 300 aim speed?? or 16 min and 21 max with 200 aim speed for all of your skills?? Guess which is which. Excluding the actual attack itself (which again, to my understanding nobody uses); couldn't it be argued that humans is supierior and boost the rest of the archery further??

    https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Elf_Ranged_Attack
    https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Human_Ranged_Attack

    Again, i've never really used archery seriously so if i'm missing something please enlighten me; but making logical assesments based on avialable information, it seems to me that "elves are OP with archery" is jsut a myth, and that human do it jsut as well, therebye rendering 'elves are to OP archery' a moot point for them to not recieve some kind of buff. I think the only reason we *don't* see humans using archery more, is simply because *they have better options*. Elves don't... and they really should.
  • rawrnyahrawrnyah
    Mabinogi Rep: 755
    Posts: 19
    Member
    edited October 3, 2020
    They can get the same amount of dex as elves. Neither of those two skills have different modifiers for different races, bar the cooldown on mag. I'm assumning a human can jsut get mag cooldown and voila: it's the same damn thing.

    That's the thing. There is no way to reduce magnum cooldown so human's are stuck with having a cooldown three times longer than elves. They also don't have Vision of Ladeca or Final Shot to speed up aim speed.

    Also, in one of the earlier posts you mentioned ego giving throwing attack 0 sec cool down but to my knowledge that's not what the ego does? Everything that I've seen lists that the Atlatl ego merely increases splash range and gives you infinite javelins.
    AlmostNotsuper
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,240
    Posts: 288
    Member
    To my knowledge, there is no way for a human to achieve the magnum cooldown an elf has. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this. Elves have a higher maximum DPS with magnum.

    I don't know if you meant to insinuate this, but the bonus aim speed from Ranged Attack does not influence Magnum or Crash shot. I think it does affect AR, SS, and Mirage Missile though, in addition to Ranged Attack itself.

    Elven ranged attack is superior to Human ranged attack, on paper. Two arrows per shot means much more damage, and the ability to run while aiming is neat. These advantages are well worth the lower aiming speed and bonus damage, IMO.
    But elf lag is a thing. It doesn't happen all the time, but that delay is annoying enough that I avoid using ranged attack in favor of mirage missile most of the time.

    Human archers have more safety and consistency - Elven archers have more damage potential and some extra utility. I wouldn't say either is 'best', but that's mostly because we're so laggy over here and the ease of AR really helps with that. If lag weren't a thing, I'm sure most people would consider elves the best. Most people who bother with archery probably do already.

    An AoE DoT (which can kill) and slow (stacks with celestial spike)? Mirage Missile is underrated, but since the meta is one-shotting everything, I can see why people would ignore it. When you can't one-shot, it's extremely helpful. And the damage scales with dex now.

    Final shot is good. Could be better. As someone who doesn't use reforges or have any weapons with significant erg levels, I think archery should be more like it is with final shot (in terms of aim speed), than as it is now, and final shot should be like final shot+ vision of ladeca (or at least like Vision of Ladeca). Provided something like this happens, Vision should be deleted.

    I'm glad you mentioned the part about Magnum and Crash Shot being the only skills that matter. I think that's the crux of the problem with archery. It's hard to balance a talent that has you essentially spamming smash at range with a relatively short animation lock. I like archery, but at times it seems kinda lame that it's essentially just magnum spam (as an elf). However, anything less won't come close to competing with other forms of combat.

    Ideally, they'd lower the damage of magnum, speed it up in return, add some benefit to using the other skills, and increase the damage of ranged skills overall, provided some condition(s) is(are) met. I have a few ideas for this, but I'm sure there are many ways it could be done. IMO, all of the older talents could use this treatment. Delete or rework their most OP components (and ideally bloat components too - mostly for close combat, this part), give them 'goals' to achieve in combat that make use of their basic lesser-used components and empower their combat ability temporarily, and nerf or delete everything that makes these moot, OP, or otherwise too difficult to manage (for the devs). Also, maybe rework some stats and even upgrades/enchants.

    Bam - combat is engaging again, and the old talents can be stronger without adding random power creep.

    ...But, nothing like this is ever going to happen, and certainly not for archery. Stuff is too good in SK, land of 0 lag. Also, people hate nerfs.
    Bronzebreak
  • VasumatiVasumati
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,175
    Posts: 76
    Member
    edited October 4, 2020
    rawrnyah wrote: »
    They can get the same amount of dex as elves. Neither of those two skills have different modifiers for different races, bar the cooldown on mag. I'm assumning a human can jsut get mag cooldown and voila: it's the same damn thing.

    That's the thing. There is no way to reduce magnum cooldown so human's are stuck with having a cooldown three times longer than elves. They also don't have Vision of Ladeca or Final Shot to speed up aim speed.

    Also, in one of the earlier posts you mentioned ego giving throwing attack 0 sec cool down but to my knowledge that's not what the ego does? Everything that I've seen lists that the Atlatl ego merely increases splash range and gives you infinite javelins.

    I could've sworn there was a magnum cooldown reforge. If i was wrong then thats my bad.

    There is a way to eliminate atlatl cooldown. My giant friend showed me in game. Perhaps its the awakening buff.
    To my knowledge, there is no way for a human to achieve the magnum cooldown an elf has. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this. Elves have a higher maximum DPS with magnum.

    I don't know if you meant to insinuate this, but the bonus aim speed from Ranged Attack does not influence Magnum or Crash shot. I think it does affect AR, SS, and Mirage Missile though, in addition to Ranged Attack itself.

    Elven ranged attack is superior to Human ranged attack, on paper. Two arrows per shot means much more damage, and the ability to run while aiming is neat. These advantages are well worth the lower aiming speed and bonus damage, IMO.
    But elf lag is a thing. It doesn't happen all the time, but that delay is annoying enough that I avoid using ranged attack in favor of mirage missile most of the time.

    Human archers have more safety and consistency - Elven archers have more damage potential and some extra utility. I wouldn't say either is 'best', but that's mostly because we're so laggy over here and the ease of AR really helps with that. If lag weren't a thing, I'm sure most people would consider elves the best. Most people who bother with archery probably do already.

    An AoE DoT (which can kill) and slow (stacks with celestial spike)? Mirage Missile is underrated, but since the meta is one-shotting everything, I can see why people would ignore it. When you can't one-shot, it's extremely helpful. And the damage scales with dex now.

    Final shot is good. Could be better. As someone who doesn't use reforges or have any weapons with significant erg levels, I think archery should be more like it is with final shot (in terms of aim speed), than as it is now, and final shot should be like final shot+ vision of ladeca (or at least like Vision of Ladeca). Provided something like this happens, Vision should be deleted.

    I'm glad you mentioned the part about Magnum and Crash Shot being the only skills that matter. I think that's the crux of the problem with archery. It's hard to balance a talent that has you essentially spamming smash at range with a relatively short animation lock. I like archery, but at times it seems kinda lame that it's essentially just magnum spam (as an elf). However, anything less won't come close to competing with other forms of combat.

    Ideally, they'd lower the damage of magnum, speed it up in return, add some benefit to using the other skills, and increase the damage of ranged skills overall, provided some condition(s) is(are) met. I have a few ideas for this, but I'm sure there are many ways it could be done. IMO, all of the older talents could use this treatment. Delete or rework their most OP components (and ideally bloat components too - mostly for close combat, this part), give them 'goals' to achieve in combat that make use of their basic lesser-used components and empower their combat ability temporarily, and nerf or delete everything that makes these moot, OP, or otherwise too difficult to manage (for the devs). Also, maybe rework some stats and even upgrades/enchants.

    Bam - combat is engaging again, and the old talents can be stronger without adding random power creep.

    ...But, nothing like this is ever going to happen, and certainly not for archery. Stuff is too good in SK, land of 0 lag. Also, people hate nerfs.

    Good post. Puts it into a better perspective. I'm glad you mentioned about balance. I really hate the way the devs balance this game. Alchemy, fighter, puppetry; where all useless for time. Rather than fix the talents themselves; they just release OP weapons to make the talent usable. Horrible philoshopy. An entire talent shouldnt be dependant on a single weapon. I mean take a look at that alchemy thread someoen just made. They where asking for buffs because its bad, and the first response is "lol get rev cylinder". That's nto how you balance alchemy....

    Look at the ergs too. For a long time, humans dominated with CRK's. To balance the other weapons they gave them all really good erg's; whereas dual swords only get damage from erg.

    The way they balance this game bad; they throw one broken system on top of another until they look even. Rydian covered this topic well in his 'why im quitting mabi' video.
    Sherri
  • Momma_SophieMomma_Sophie
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,460
    Posts: 285
    Member
    edited October 4, 2020
    Vasumati wrote: »

    At least have the fortitude to directly respond to me with what you disagree with in what I've said. lmao
    This community, I swear to god...

    That video is outdated.
    Ninja is highly well-used among the community, now that people have realized exactly what use it actually has granted by the wonderful spirit update.
    Not everything is going to work in all content. I cannot stress this enough. I don't really see the point in complaining over and over about the same problems, outside of just looking for people to agree with your ideas, pat yourselves on the back, and then forget about it.
    What exactly is the goal here with these threads? To complain long enough until you get your way?
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 63,705
    Posts: 8,639
    Member
    edited October 4, 2020
    Vasumati wrote: »

    At least have the fortitude to directly respond to me with what you disagree with in what I've said. lmao
    This community, I swear to god...

    That video is outdated.
    Ninja is highly well-used among the community, now that people have realized exactly what use it actually has granted by the wonderful spirit update.
    Not everything is going to work in all content. I cannot stress this enough. I don't really see the point in complaining over and over about the same problems, outside of just looking for people to agree with your ideas, pat yourselves on the back, and then forget about it.
    What exactly is the goal here with these threads? To complain long enough until you get your way?

    Yes actually. A lot of the posts on here are reviewed periodically. If it recurs enough it eventually gets implemented in some manner.

    You should spend some more time on here. :)
  • Momma_SophieMomma_Sophie
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,460
    Posts: 285
    Member
    edited October 4, 2020
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Vasumati wrote: »

    At least have the fortitude to directly respond to me with what you disagree with in what I've said. lmao
    This community, I swear to god...

    That video is outdated.
    Ninja is highly well-used among the community, now that people have realized exactly what use it actually has granted by the wonderful spirit update.
    Not everything is going to work in all content. I cannot stress this enough. I don't really see the point in complaining over and over about the same problems, outside of just looking for people to agree with your ideas, pat yourselves on the back, and then forget about it.
    What exactly is the goal here with these threads? To complain long enough until you get your way?

    Yes actually. A lot of the posts on here are reviewed periodically. If it recurs enough it eventually gets implemented in some manner.

    You should spend some more time on here.

    Well, at least we're being honest about it.
    I wish you all the best, but I'm too busy doing content to worry about what goes on in these Forums, friend. I just stop by to check out the latest outrage trend, laugh, and -- more recently -- offer some contrarian ideas.
    But, you seem to believe that complaining does indeed get you your way, so let's see.
    Let's see how long it takes for Nexon to literally tear the code apart, rework everything to precisely cater to what each individual prefers, and not go bankrupt doing it.
    That's a show I'd watch.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 63,705
    Posts: 8,639
    Member
    edited October 4, 2020
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Vasumati wrote: »

    At least have the fortitude to directly respond to me with what you disagree with in what I've said. lmao
    This community, I swear to god...

    That video is outdated.
    Ninja is highly well-used among the community, now that people have realized exactly what use it actually has granted by the wonderful spirit update.
    Not everything is going to work in all content. I cannot stress this enough. I don't really see the point in complaining over and over about the same problems, outside of just looking for people to agree with your ideas, pat yourselves on the back, and then forget about it.
    What exactly is the goal here with these threads? To complain long enough until you get your way?

    Yes actually. A lot of the posts on here are reviewed periodically. If it recurs enough it eventually gets implemented in some manner.

    You should spend some more time on here.

    Well, at least we're being honest about it.
    I wish you all the best, but I'm too busy doing content to worry about what goes on in these Forums, friend. I just stop by to check out the latest outrage trend, laugh, and -- more recently -- offer some contrarian ideas.
    But, you seem to believe that complaining does indeed get you your way, so let's see.
    Let's see how long it takes for Nexon to literally tear the code apart, rework everything to precisely cater to what each individual prefers, and not go bankrupt doing it.
    That's a show I'd watch.

    Complaining is just another form of conjecture that eventually becomes constructive. Hence the point of a forum. It's not going to bankrupt anyone to just toss some ideas or opinions out there.

    You have a good night.
  • rawrnyahrawrnyah
    Mabinogi Rep: 755
    Posts: 19
    Member
    Vasumati wrote: »
    I could've sworn there was a magnum cooldown reforge. If i was wrong then thats my bad.

    I looked into it a bit more. There's no "traditional" reforge for it but the wiki has throwing attack cooldown in the list of echostone exclusive reforge (with a whole much of question marks on what it actually does and what level you can get it up to). Maybe your friend has one of those. Either that or they just used timeshift.

  • Momma_SophieMomma_Sophie
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,460
    Posts: 285
    Member
    edited October 5, 2020
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Vasumati wrote: »

    At least have the fortitude to directly respond to me with what you disagree with in what I've said. lmao
    This community, I swear to god...

    That video is outdated.
    Ninja is highly well-used among the community, now that people have realized exactly what use it actually has granted by the wonderful spirit update.
    Not everything is going to work in all content. I cannot stress this enough. I don't really see the point in complaining over and over about the same problems, outside of just looking for people to agree with your ideas, pat yourselves on the back, and then forget about it.
    What exactly is the goal here with these threads? To complain long enough until you get your way?

    Yes actually. A lot of the posts on here are reviewed periodically. If it recurs enough it eventually gets implemented in some manner.

    You should spend some more time on here.

    Well, at least we're being honest about it.
    I wish you all the best, but I'm too busy doing content to worry about what goes on in these Forums, friend. I just stop by to check out the latest outrage trend, laugh, and -- more recently -- offer some contrarian ideas.
    But, you seem to believe that complaining does indeed get you your way, so let's see.
    Let's see how long it takes for Nexon to literally tear the code apart, rework everything to precisely cater to what each individual prefers, and not go bankrupt doing it.
    That's a show I'd watch.

    Complaining is just another form of conjecture that eventually becomes constructive. Hence the point of a forum. It's not going to bankrupt anyone to just toss some ideas or opinions out there.

    You have a good night.

    My part in this conversation is not yet over, sorry. I'll stop speaking when I choose.
    I don't know what mental gymnastics or semantic games and word salad it is you're trying to play, but I'm not getting into it.
    I didn't make the argument that you're not allowed to complain or that suggesting ideas would bankrupt someone. This is beyond disingenuous.

    My question was seeking the purpose of the complaining and I added the obvious point -- a point you did not address nor prove faulty in any way other than an attempt at dismissing it entirely -- that trying to placate every single one of you is an extremely ridiculous endeavor that would require an unnecessary amount of resources put into it, because a small minority of players (players who don't regularly even log in or do content, mind you) for some reason feel like they should have this already niche game tailored to their whims instead of adapting to the present circumstance and then, suggesting possible and reasonable ways to improve the circumstances that don't require "literally [tearing] the code apart, [reworking] everything to precisely cater to what each individual prefers, and not [going] bankrupt doing it." You'd think after the results of the server merge, people would have realized that they have no idea what they're talking about and would stop making demands they didn't put thought into outside of what personally makes them happy (regardless of what it costs others).

    I'm not saying the game can't be improved. But, I don't see any effort whatsoever coming from the people doing the complaining in regards to making the best of the situation. It'd be one thing if you didn't already have powerful versions of weapons that outclass everything else when people invest into them. If I had to wager, I'd likely bet on the idea that the people doing the most complaining haven't done any renown work, minimal spirit leveling, haven't invested effort into raising their stats, spent more gold on fashion than buying reforged gear, haven't looked into supplementary items like Alban Totems, and don't bother with content beyond Hard Mode Dungeons and Shadow Missions. Having more experience in the game de-radicalizes your viewpoints on the direction it should go, because you understand how intricately woven things are and what it would take to make changes.
  • VasumatiVasumati
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,175
    Posts: 76
    Member
    edited October 5, 2020
    Vasumati wrote: »

    At least have the fortitude to directly respond to me with what you disagree with in what I've said. lmao
    This community, I swear to god...

    That video is outdated.
    Ninja is highly well-used among the community, now that people have realized exactly what use it actually has granted by the wonderful spirit update.
    Not everything is going to work in all content. I cannot stress this enough. I don't really see the point in complaining over and over about the same problems, outside of just looking for people to agree with your ideas, pat yourselves on the back, and then forget about it.
    What exactly is the goal here with these threads? To complain long enough until you get your way?

    uhm... are you feeling alright?? this is your first post in this thread. How can i respond to a post that you never made?? Unless you are one of the other accounts in this thread...
    The goal of this thread is to bring up balance issues; particularly with elves, in the game. I don't see how this is 'complaining', we are bringing forward issues, and creating ideas in how to fix them. I suggested some buffs for elves.
    rawrnyah wrote: »
    Vasumati wrote: »
    I could've sworn there was a magnum cooldown reforge. If i was wrong then thats my bad.

    I looked into it a bit more. There's no "traditional" reforge for it but the wiki has throwing attack cooldown in the list of echostone exclusive reforge (with a whole much of question marks on what it actually does and what level you can get it up to). Maybe your friend has one of those. Either that or they just used timeshift.

    I don't know how exactly he did it, but he specifically said it was the ego that allowed him to do it. We then did a zero percent damage dual and he showed me it in action. I don't know the specifics of how he did it; i can ask him next time i see him. Another giant player also mentioned being able to have zero cooldown from ego.



  • Momma_SophieMomma_Sophie
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,460
    Posts: 285
    Member
    Vasumati wrote: »
    uhm... are you feeling alright?? this is your first post in this thread. How can i respond to a post that you never made?? Unless you are one of the other accounts in this thread...

    lol
    Vasumati wrote: »
    I mean take a look at that alchemy thread someoen just made. They where asking for buffs because its bad, and the first response is "lol get rev cylinder". That's nto how you balance alchemy....
  • VasumatiVasumati
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,175
    Posts: 76
    Member
    Vasumati wrote: »
    uhm... are you feeling alright?? this is your first post in this thread. How can i respond to a post that you never made?? Unless you are one of the other accounts in this thread...

    lol
    Vasumati wrote: »
    I mean take a look at that alchemy thread someoen just made. They where asking for buffs because its bad, and the first response is "lol get rev cylinder". That's nto how you balance alchemy....

    I didn't post in that thread, and had no intention too. Nor was i following it beyond reading the first two post.

    lol
  • Momma_SophieMomma_Sophie
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,460
    Posts: 285
    Member
    edited October 5, 2020
    Vasumati wrote: »
    Vasumati wrote: »
    uhm... are you feeling alright?? this is your first post in this thread. How can i respond to a post that you never made?? Unless you are one of the other accounts in this thread...

    lol
    Vasumati wrote: »
    I mean take a look at that alchemy thread someoen just made. They where asking for buffs because its bad, and the first response is "lol get rev cylinder". That's nto how you balance alchemy....

    I didn't post in that thread, and had no intention too. Nor was i following it beyond reading the first two post.

    lol
    You weren't following anything beyond the first two posts, but ridiculed the contents of the third post here in this thread. Alright, man.
    https://forums.mabinogi.nexon.net/discussion/23814/alchemy-utility-and-reworks

    Then, when confronted and told to at least respond to the post you're criticizing, your defense is "I didn't post in that thread lol" which was the entire point I was making. You didn't respond to the post.

    Ladies and gentlemen: These are the people who think they have the answers to game balance and company decisions Nexon should make going forward regarding content and items.
    I rest my case. Sophie out.
  • VasumatiVasumati
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,175
    Posts: 76
    Member
    Vasumati wrote: »
    Vasumati wrote: »
    uhm... are you feeling alright?? this is your first post in this thread. How can i respond to a post that you never made?? Unless you are one of the other accounts in this thread...

    lol
    Vasumati wrote: »
    I mean take a look at that alchemy thread someoen just made. They where asking for buffs because its bad, and the first response is "lol get rev cylinder". That's nto how you balance alchemy....

    I didn't post in that thread, and had no intention too. Nor was i following it beyond reading the first two post.

    lol
    You weren't following anything beyond the first two posts, but ridiculed the contents of the third post here in this thread. Alright, man.
    https://forums.mabinogi.nexon.net/discussion/23814/alchemy-utility-and-reworks

    Then, when confronted and told to at least respond to the post you're criticizing, your defense is "I didn't post in that thread lol" which was the entire point I was making. You didn't respond to the post.

    Ladies and gentlemen: These are the people who think they have the answers to game balance and company decisions Nexon should make going forward regarding content and items.
    I rest my case. Sophie out.

    You should go back and re-read the third post. They agreed with me except for the melee multipliers. I also liked it, and responded to it without ridicule. And why am i somehow obligated go answer some post in another thread that wasn't directed at me?? How do you come to that conclusion?? I don't understand why you're so hung up on this; nor why you are so hostile. You keep trying to belittle me and act passive aggresive in all your post. Chill out.
    But since it matters to you so much; i'll respond to it... Even though this thread is supposed to be about elves; and i am in no way, shape or form; obligated to respond to post in a completely different thread that wasn't even directed towards me.

    "Make Revenant/Perseus Cylinders, Erg it to 50, enchant your entire gear with alchemy boosts and obtain nice reforges.
    When you do, come back and re-read your post. You'll laugh at yourself.

    As for enemies getting knocked out of flame burst: Gather the enemies up first, then pet spam pets with effects that hold them in place (e.g. Sheeptuplet, Ice Dragon, Lil' Jack, etc).

    To everything else: Square peg, round hole."

    The point i was making is that an entire talent shouldn't be rendered useless without a single weapon. Rather than release an OP weapon, they should go back and fix the talent. It could be as simple as taking all those buffs the weapon has, and just applying them to the actual talent/skill instead.
    Sherri
  • HabimaruHabimaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,190
    Posts: 709
    Member
    edited October 7, 2020
    The main thing that is actually «imbalanced» are the AP-to-skill-output ratios. The «early game» of the Alchemist-Set is probably the most AP-cost-effective skill-set for elves but certainly doesn't keep up with the speed of being able to mass-clear rooms like you could with a human's ability to fall back on using Final-Hit nor the fact that a Giant's damage-output for all physical skill-sets is extremely high in comparison to the other two races for less AP-Cost.

    Starting elves who don't have a lot of experience with Mabinogi, who might be too stubborn to just switch to using a Human or Giant as their excluse main-character (I use the word «exclusive» because, in the past, all of my characters were my «main» characters, due to equal usage, and so I had a lot of trouble answering people as to «who was my main» or «is that an alt» type questions), really are best off initially investing into Flame-Burst with a good Fire-Cylinder and Fire-Bolt with an easily obtainable Chain-Cast Fire-Wand for purposes of keeping their level of early game frustration to a minimum and clearing content more easily*.

    Caveat* : Due to the cost of equipment-repairs for Magic-Equipment, not to mention the need for mana-management due to the percentage-ratio of mana-consumption out of one's maximum mana-pool starting out, I would recommend for newbie-elves to be rather conservative about their spending habits, learn and invest in the consistent ways to make easy gold (the Holy Waters market apparently became extremely profitable, even much more so than it used to be, ever since a few updates ago, particularly after the P.E.T. update was implemented, evidenced by the absurdly high prices that people are now willing to pay for, according to the records of A-H sales-records), and of course obtaining as MUCH extra bag-space as they possibly can. In fact, IF they can obtain LOTS of good Bag-Coupons from Events (look up the Kyururu Bag and Kaban Bag on the A-H to see what I mean about their value), they will have HIGH-VALUE assets for more purchase/bargaining power (and, although getting a bit more off-topic now, Robert Kiyosaki also has plenty of good information for the off-line world/versions of investing into good financial-stability).

    Anyway, elves dual-wielding certainly wouldn't make them over-powered or break any «balance» issues in any way, due to the fact that their physical-attack strength/modifiers/multipliers are pitiful to begin with and would still remain quite pitiful even if/when equipped with a couple of High-Focused Beam-Swords, nor would it imbalance or over-power them in any way to have the ability to use Lances (or some form thereof), for similar reasons as to why Dual-Wielding wouldn't break them in any sort of balance-issue/department, and as for re-working how combat works, well, that is probably more of an intellectual/creativity strain than it is a financial one, other than perhaps the lack of coders/programmers/developers that they have now in comparison to before or that there is a completely different set of people now on the coding/programming/development team or some combination thereof.

    Although I won't get into too much detail over this, I can tell you all for a fact that you can have all of the greatest ideas in the world but none of that will come to fruition (or at least not very quickly) without enough coders/programmers/developers with the skill-set to code/program them into reality, which I suspect is currently the case with this and quite possibly most titles in the now «saturated» video-game market (kind of like too many chiefs trying to do their own thing & not enough Indians [no so-called racism intended by the way]... evidenced by the fact that there are an absurd amount of game-titles now in existence that may even soon rival the total human-population if not already). I was fortunate in my past to have experienced being part of a past game-community where they had skilled coders, I had plenty of ideas, and lots & Lots & LOTS of «ideas» that I had posted/published actually ended up being implemented the following week, allowing our whole entire player-base to enjoy the fruits of community effort & progress and, damn, I must admit, it was a LOT of FUN (also, in all fairness, I gave VERY DETAILED descriptions for the things that they implemented, which was like around 98% of all of the ideas that I put forth, backed up with my reasonings for why I thought they were needed, not the least of which why I must have come across as so authoritative about it was that I was testing out every skill-set that their/our game had, and could give my feedback on everything from personal-experience). Management might be another factor but that's why such things as «leadership» programmes exist (and for more «business» related knowledge I do recommend much of what Patrick David-Bet from Valuetainment teaches on the topics of marketing/leadership and other such related business-topics).

    Anyway, with that, I will end with saying that I had thought about a different idea for the mechanics of the Archery system altogether, such as there being sort of a mini-game with its usage, but, unlike the idea posted about having its PoV being related to how the Tower-Cylinder is used, I was thinking more along the lines of points on the screen that show up on the screen at random or perhaps a low-opacity «silhouette» of the target, and if you managed to click on the moving weak-point-icon and/or let go of your arrow with the right timing, you would crit your target, amongst other mini-game-factors that I won't go over into too much detail at this time as it would probably be a wasted effort (and time) on my part anyway given their probably limited current ability to be able to even try to implement such a thing anyway (such that it would just end up being more fruitful of such time/efforts being used to become a direct-competitor instead but I'd rather put more focus & attention on the Self-Learning Artificial-Intelligence industry before I would bother with game-development since I have been losing interest in the traditional pre-programmed NPCs experience and would want to see some sort of VRMMORPG where each and every character is a self-learning self-conscious reminiscent of what we might see in an Isekai-animé).
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,135
    Posts: 2,714
    Member
    i'd like if elves can be buffed in magic as it's stated that magic is also one of their strong points :(
    Radiant Dawnroseangel