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Elf buff for Strength and debuff for intelligence?

Comments

  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
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    edited March 16, 2017
    Crisis1 wrote: »
    I feel like you hate elves ALOT. It's okay, we hate ourselves too. WTB>race change card

    I'm an elf myself, for now anyway.

    I don't hate elves any more than the average person. [img]http://forum2.nexon.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.png"; title="Roll Eyes" (Sarcastic)[/img] This is just the standard reaction to elf QQ; tradition demands it.

    Seeing as there's no actual debuff (now that I think about it, it was a little ridiculous to expect that), I see little reason for anyone to complain.

    Personally, I think it'd be better to just change the stats of the hybrid talents themselves, maybe give a complete skill reset potion to go along with it. Make Puppetry Dex/Int dependent, and maybe change ninja to scale off more neutral stats (I saw on some educational show about ninja's that luck is part of a ninja's skill).

    Also, just to keep things in perspective, elves have most close combat skills, including Bash for whatever reason. Giants have throwing attack, but other wise lack ranged skills entirely.
  • Crisis1Crisis1
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    edited March 16, 2017
    Crisis1 wrote: »
    I feel like you hate elves ALOT. It's okay, we hate ourselves too. WTB>race change card

    I'm an elf myself, for now anyway.

    I don't hate elves any more than the average person. [img]http://forum2.nexon.net/images/smilies/rolleyes.png"; title="Roll Eyes" (Sarcastic)[/img] This is just the standard reaction to elf QQ; tradition demands it.

    Seeing as there's no actual debuff (now that I think about it, it was a little ridiculous to expect that), I see little reason for anyone to complain.

    Personally, I think it'd be better to just change the stats of the hybrid talents themselves, maybe give a complete skill reset potion to go along with it. Make Puppetry Dex/Int dependent, and maybe change ninja to scale off more neutral stats (I saw on some educational show about ninja's that luck is part of a ninja's skill).

    Also, just to keep things in perspective, elves have most close combat skills, including Bash for whatever reason. Giants have throwing attack, but other wise lack ranged skills entirely.

    I think you are forgetting the whole lance thing. It's really hard to believe you are an elf since u always down play the whole race.
    Anyways, getting back on topic. Since we are already on the path of "EVERY RACE IS DIFFERENT" there's no point in trying to equalize the race stats. let elves do their elf things and let giants do their giant things.
    on another note. I would like to know what's the new giant max int now. Would be pretty sad if giant int > elf int now.
    KagaSylviaWolfe
  • darkchaos125darkchaos125
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    because elves = faeries = magic folk = true OP race but they don't want to adhere to the roots/truth.

    This is why a lot of the community dislikes elves, you know. Every once in a while, some elves start saying crazy stuff like this, and then we all know that most people who choose to be elves are thinking it. =T

    Just stating the truth and not asking for much. I main archery and i consider magic the 'pro' route in most games, but the poor treatment of elves is real.

    As soon as we talk about that, suddenly we're the crazy ones.

    But I can relate to how you feel about it.
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
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    Crisis1 wrote: »
    I think you are forgetting the whole lance thing.

    When I said close combat, I was referring to the talent title, not 'Any skill that involves smacking enemies'. If you mean to point out that both races are shut out from one talent, I never said that wasn't true. Consider this though - would you rather be locked out of a subset of one talent (which Knight basically is), or an entire mode of combat, except for one skill?

    And again, I can understand the basic Close Combat skills, as they are a necessity, but why do elves have Bash? It makes no sense.
  • Crisis1Crisis1
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    Crisis1 wrote: »
    I think you are forgetting the whole lance thing.

    When I said close combat, I was referring to the talent title, not 'Any skill that involves smacking enemies'. If you mean to point out that both races are shut out from one talent, I never said that wasn't true. Consider this though - would you rather be locked out of a subset of one talent (which Knight basically is), or an entire mode of combat, except for one skill?

    And again, I can understand the basic Close Combat skills, as they are a necessity, but why do elves have Bash? It makes no sense.
    the only thing i use bash for is entertainment like "beating girgashy in the face with a drum stick" and "slapping friends in pvp with a leek". It doesn't do meaningful damage for us elves and it will never reach the potential damage since we can't use CRK, can't use FGS, and just lack the str.
    Kaga
  • JoeyDee9JoeyDee9
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    Crisis1 wrote: »
    Crisis1 wrote: »
    I think you are forgetting the whole lance thing.

    When I said close combat, I was referring to the talent title, not 'Any skill that involves smacking enemies'. If you mean to point out that both races are shut out from one talent, I never said that wasn't true. Consider this though - would you rather be locked out of a subset of one talent (which Knight basically is), or an entire mode of combat, except for one skill?

    And again, I can understand the basic Close Combat skills, as they are a necessity, but why do elves have Bash? It makes no sense.
    the only thing i use bash for is entertainment like "beating girgashy in the face with a drum stick" and "slapping friends in pvp with a leek". It doesn't do meaningful damage for us elves and it will never reach the potential damage since we can't use CRK, can't use FGS, and just lack the str.

    Not really, an elf can do all dungeon with gathering knives and bash...that's how overpowered the skill is though. Or make a soluna blade and become best melee player in game. HueHueHue
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
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    Crisis1 wrote: »
    the only thing i use bash for is entertainment like "beating girgashy in the face with a drum stick" and "slapping friends in pvp with a leek". It doesn't do meaningful damage for us elves and it will never reach the potential damage since we can't use CRK, can't use FGS, and just lack the str.

    1. Anything less than the best is meaningless?
    2.Not anymore.

    Keep in mind that, even looking at this with a competitive end-game skew, there's that newfangled ultrasword that even Elves can use. Not easily acquired, but I assume it's the best, and elves can bash with it without any sort of damage penalty.
  • Crisis1Crisis1
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    edited March 16, 2017
    JoeyDee9 wrote: »
    Crisis1 wrote: »
    Crisis1 wrote: »
    I think you are forgetting the whole lance thing.

    When I said close combat, I was referring to the talent title, not 'Any skill that involves smacking enemies'. If you mean to point out that both races are shut out from one talent, I never said that wasn't true. Consider this though - would you rather be locked out of a subset of one talent (which Knight basically is), or an entire mode of combat, except for one skill?

    And again, I can understand the basic Close Combat skills, as they are a necessity, but why do elves have Bash? It makes no sense.
    the only thing i use bash for is entertainment like "beating girgashy in the face with a drum stick" and "slapping friends in pvp with a leek". It doesn't do meaningful damage for us elves and it will never reach the potential damage since we can't use CRK, can't use FGS, and just lack the str.

    Not really, an elf can do all dungeon with gathering knives and bash...that's how overpowered the skill is though. Or make a soluna blade and become best melee player in game. HueHueHue

    kk come back when you have done all dungeons as elf with a gathering knife or got an soluna blade to give me :o
    Crisis1 wrote: »
    the only thing i use bash for is entertainment like "beating girgashy in the face with a drum stick" and "slapping friends in pvp with a leek". It doesn't do meaningful damage for us elves and it will never reach the potential damage since we can't use CRK, can't use FGS, and just lack the str.

    1. Anything less than the best is meaningless?
    2.Not anymore.

    Keep in mind that, even looking at this with a competitive end-game skew, there's that newfangled ultrasword that even Elves can use. Not easily acquired, but I assume it's the best, and elves can bash with it without any sort of damage penalty.

    1. do you even elf bash? sounds to me you clearly don't
    2. yes still.

    Sure let me go buy one real quick ^.^. All you are doing is making speculations on what we could "potentially" do and have never done any of the things you mentioned.
  • KagaKaga
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    Lmao the shine of eweca skill lets you uncap HARDCAP.

    Now the question is how to cap str as an elf without cater? Because im sure as hell giants can cap int without it(with divine link)
  • Rietty_KitttyRietty_Kittty
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    No one can read can they at all?

    It's not a DEBUFF because you still gain stats. You simply gain slightly LESS int than you gain str.
    So in the end, this update isn't worth it and I won't be coming back to Mabinogi any time soon.

    For elves it is.
    a maximum of 15 minutes for one real day(?)

    Once a mabi day, works EXACTLY like trans timing.
    Just stating the truth and not asking for much. I main archery and i consider magic the 'pro' route in most games, but the poor treatment of elves is real.

    Archery is pretty damn good, if you know what you're doing.
    Now the question is how to cap str as an elf without cater? Because im sure as hell giants can cap int without it(with divine link)

    Don't know why you want to melee as an elf if you can't use most 2 handeds or dual wield anyways.

    If anyone else has more misconceptions, I'll be happy to shoot them down.

  • LutetiumLutetium
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    Kaga wrote: »
    Lmao the shine of eweca skill lets you uncap HARDCAP.

    Now the question is how to cap str as an elf without cater? Because im sure as hell giants can cap int without it(with divine link)

    At endgame, trans(or hot chocolate cater)+soul link would get an elf 1500 quite easily (I mention trans since it also gets 1500 dex and int at the same time).

    However it's worth noting that there's a secondary cap on STR stat for elves with shine of eweca at 1700, so if you cap 1500 without it's boosts you only get +200 over cap instead of the full +294 shine is suppose to give you, I'll provide a screenshot since I don't expect there are many other elves on NA that can hit 1500 str, as well as a screenshot of the claimed 294 STR boost from r1 shine of eweca.

    0a951735b1.png
    dea29e1b2d.png
  • EunyoEunyo
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    Lutetium wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    Lmao the shine of eweca skill lets you uncap HARDCAP.

    Now the question is how to cap str as an elf without cater? Because im sure as hell giants can cap int without it(with divine link)

    At endgame, trans(or hot chocolate cater)+soul link would get an elf 1500 quite easily (I mention trans since it also gets 1500 dex and int at the same time).

    However it's worth noting that there's a secondary cap on STR stat for elves with shine of eweca at 1700, so if you cap 1500 without it's boosts you only get +200 over cap instead of the full +294 shine is suppose to give you, I'll provide a screenshot since I don't expect there are many other elves on NA that can hit 1500 str, as well as a screenshot of the claimed 294 STR boost from r1 shine of eweca.

    0a951735b1.png
    dea29e1b2d.png

    that smithing talent though
  • KagaKaga
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    edited March 16, 2017

    Now the question is how to cap str as an elf without cater? Because im sure as hell giants can cap int without it(with divine link)

    Don't know why you want to melee as an elf if you can't use most 2 handeds or dual wield anyways.

    Yeah, i dont want to be a melee elf (hell nah) Which is why I hate that we get MORE STR than INT.

    Lutetium wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    Lmao the shine of eweca skill lets you uncap HARDCAP.

    Now the question is how to cap str as an elf without cater? Because im sure as hell giants can cap int without it(with divine link)

    At endgame, trans(or hot chocolate cater)+soul link would get an elf 1500 quite easily (I mention trans since it also gets 1500 dex and int at the same time).

    However it's worth noting that there's a secondary cap on STR stat for elves with shine of eweca at 1700, so if you cap 1500 without it's boosts you only get +200 over cap instead of the full +294 shine is suppose to give you, I'll provide a screenshot since I don't expect there are many other elves on NA that can hit 1500 str, as well as a screenshot of the claimed 294 STR boost from r1 shine of eweca.


    Like I said, WITHOUT cater.
    Giants can also gain stats through transformation.

    I already know it's not "that" easy to get str capped for elves without trans/cater being an end-game elf myself.
    But it's "easier" for giants to cap int without trans/cater.

    I am more concerned about the int though. 155 more int. What's your total level? (too lazy to get up to 200 to see for myself)
    Crisis1
  • VenenatisVenenatis
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    It's better that way, hitting cap int isn't very hard vs other skills.
  • LutetiumLutetium
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    Kaga wrote: »
    Like I said, WITHOUT cater.
    Giants can also gain stats through transformation.

    I already know it's not "that" easy to get str capped for elves without trans/cater being an end-game elf myself.
    But it's "easier" for giants to cap int without trans/cater.

    I am more concerned about the int though. 155 more int. What's your total level? (too lazy to get up to 200 to see for myself)

    I don't believe elves can hit 1500 without the catering boost (it's only 8k gold per 20 mins of boost with hot chocolate though so that's a nonissue to me honestly). I do however agree with you about the int issue, giants and humans both can cap int quite easily (though if you go for age 11/12 on giant for most str+will from levelup you get just over 1200~ int at 200/50 cl/expl and have to use the cater+link like elf does for str but you're also sitting on 1400~ str). I also believe giants do not have this secondary 1700 cap on their int boost from shine of eweca like elves do for str though I cannot confirm this since my giant isn't maxed out like my elf yet.

    As for my elf's total level, it's 23187 and 4190 exploration. I would also like to add that with this patch, due to elves getting a reduced dex bonus vs human from shine of eweca, the already existing gap of humans having more archery damage (although longer mag cd) has only grown further apart, and with the int it's shifted the magic endgame from being balanced with the same damage endgame to being giant > human > elf, so elves have comparatively only become further weaker in the classes they are claimed to excel in when you read the in-game character creation text blurb.

    Some final thoughts; vision of ladeca is a nice boost to archery (for 15 mins per 36 min game day) but tries to shoehorn the player into using archery when the game is suppose to be a "sandbox" according to Kim's interviews which feels more like a loosely enforced restriction upon those who choose elf (I personally chose elf with the intent of playing mage as well so I understand where you're coming from feeling cucked by the reduced int bonus for elf) and as someone who's been playing their elf since g13 launched, I personally feel (after much playing of the game, as well as crunching the numbers for all the races) there's no reason to play an elf at this point in Mabinogi's lifespan, especially with the upcoming giant buff on the Korean test server allowing full swing use with 0 cooldown charge with 0 cooldown during wind guard along with allowing movement, weapon switching, and potion use now like final hit on humans (don't even get me started on final hit). With all that in mind, I've started playing my giant as my main character since there's really nothing for me to lose by not doing so, even if there's an elf buff in the future, my elf is basically maxed out already, but may as well just play giant now since they've been buffed so much and are only going to get buffed further within the coming couple years (with how slow NA nexon gets patch updates, we still haven't gotten the ninja update after almost 2 years). I would personally suggest the same to other elf players though, just play on giant or play on human if you like archery since your crash shots will hit harder than an elf's anyways, elves are just in a disastrous state of imbalance right now and DevCat has 0 interest in balancing this game much less doing anything about the engine's stability and performance on modern hardware.

    I apologize if this comes off as ranty but these are my legitimate thoughts on the subject as someone who as mentioned has played an elf enough to pump 23k levels into it's total.
    Daktaro
  • KagaKaga
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    edited March 16, 2017
    Lutetium wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    Like I said, WITHOUT cater.
    Giants can also gain stats through transformation.

    I already know it's not "that" easy to get str capped for elves without trans/cater being an end-game elf myself.
    But it's "easier" for giants to cap int without trans/cater.

    I am more concerned about the int though. 155 more int. What's your total level? (too lazy to get up to 200 to see for myself)

    I don't believe elves can hit 1500 without the catering boost (it's only 8k gold per 20 mins of boost with hot chocolate though so that's a nonissue to me honestly). I do however agree with you about the int issue, giants and humans both can cap int quite easily (though if you go for age 11/12 on giant for most str+will from levelup you get just over 1200~ int at 200/50 cl/expl and have to use the cater+link like elf does for str but you're also sitting on 1400~ str). I also believe giants do not have this secondary 1700 cap on their int boost from shine of eweca like elves do for str though I cannot confirm this since my giant isn't maxed out like my elf yet.

    As for my elf's total level, it's 23187 and 4190 exploration. I would also like to add that with this patch, due to elves getting a reduced dex bonus vs human from shine of eweca, the already existing gap of humans having more archery damage (although longer mag cd) has only grown further apart, and with the int it's shifted the magic endgame from being balanced with the same damage endgame to being giant > human > elf, so elves have comparatively only become further weaker in the classes they are claimed to excel in when you read the in-game character creation text blurb.

    Some final thoughts; vision of ladeca is a nice boost to archery (for 15 mins per 36 min game day) but tries to shoehorn the player into using archery when the game is suppose to be a "sandbox" according to Kim's interviews which feels more like a loosely enforced restriction upon those who choose elf (I personally chose elf with the intent of playing mage as well so I understand where you're coming from feeling cucked by the reduced int bonus for elf) and as someone who's been playing their elf since g13 launched, I personally feel (after much playing of the game, as well as crunching the numbers for all the races) there's no reason to play an elf at this point in Mabinogi's lifespan, especially with the upcoming giant buff on the Korean test server allowing full swing use with 0 cooldown charge with 0 cooldown during wind guard along with allowing movement, weapon switching, and potion use now like final hit on humans (don't even get me started on final hit). With all that in mind, I've started playing my giant as my main character since there's really nothing for me to lose by not doing so, even if there's an elf buff in the future, my elf is basically maxed out already, but may as well just play giant now since they've been buffed so much and are only going to get buffed further within the coming couple years (with how slow NA nexon gets patch updates, we still haven't gotten the ninja update after almost 2 years). I would personally suggest the same to other elf players though, just play on giant or play on human if you like archery since your crash shots will hit harder than an elf's anyways, elves are just in a disastrous state of imbalance right now and DevCat has 0 interest in balancing this game much less doing anything about the engine's stability and performance on modern hardware.

    I apologize if this comes off as ranty but these are my legitimate thoughts on the subject as someone who as mentioned has played an elf enough to pump 23k levels into it's total.

    We are pretty much the same total level, so I am happy about the int gain (good enough)
    What I was saying is that giants can easily cap int compared to elves capping str.
    I also agree what you said about elves being MORE weaker than the 2 other races because of this patch (dex/human int/giant)

    Basically, humans can get more dex and giants can get more int after hardcap.

    Not sure why people don't get it.
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
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    edited March 16, 2017
    Crisis1 wrote: »
    1. do you even elf bash? sounds to me you clearly don't
    2. yes still.

    Sure let me go buy one real quick ^.^. All you are doing is making speculations on what we can "potentially" do and have never done any of the things you mentioned.

    1.What are you trying to say? This is hardly a sensible response to my question.

    2.Do you know this for certain? If not, you're only speaking of what could 'potentially' be the case.

    Let's keep this simple. I asked why elves needed to have bash - you replied that bash is useless as an elf - Joey and I both tell you that that's not the case - you reply with "lol go show me then" and "lol but u can't do meaningful damage with bash your opiniun is moot".

    You've yet to tell me what meaningful damage is.

    Are you saying that elves wouldn't QQ (more) if bash were taken away from them? Look at this thread, as an example. Nothing was taken, and elves received what was arguably the most meaningful buff of the update. Yet here we are.

    Conversely, all you're doing is talking about how limited you are on account of not being 'the strongest' by your definition, ignoring your elf's potential. And using vague statements, at that. Can you truthfully tell me that anything I've said is not true, or are you going to keep evading my questions?

    kk come back when you solo every dungeon, Phantasm included, as a non elf, without using an elf's race-specific advantages :o

    They mean something, don't they?
    because elves = faeries = magic folk = true OP race but they don't want to adhere to the roots/truth.

    This is why a lot of the community dislikes elves, you know. Every once in a while, some elves start saying crazy stuff like this, and then we all know that most people who choose to be elves are thinking it. =T

    Just stating the truth and not asking for much. I main archery and i consider magic the 'pro' route in most games, but the poor treatment of elves is real.

    As soon as we talk about that, suddenly we're the crazy ones.

    But I can relate to how you feel about it.

    I said that partly as a joke, but "True OP Race" is the part I see as crazy.

    I'm not saying elves couldn't use a buff, but when elves rant on the forums, they tend to completely ignore their own advantages. This may not be what you mean, but it sounds like 'Elves should be the best at magic and archery, and just as good as humans in everything else", and it seems to be an underlying message in most elf QQing. Maybe it's just me.

    Anyway, I'm glad you can relate, because it's difficult to put into words. I don't want elves to be shafted - I want everything to be balanced, and that includes elves, giants, and humans all having their own equally valuable (in total) things. But it's really annoying how elves won't stop complaining, and more specifically, exactly how they go about it - often listing the strengths of giants and humans, and then ignoring their corresponding strengths . This is why I try to correct this whenever I see it.

    Anyway, I see what Kaga meant about breaking the hard cap now. Not gonna lie, while I was looking forward to something being able to do this, I'm pretty disappointed in this method. I always thought that Transformations (and only transformations) should do it. The buffs are basically just meaningless power creep.
  • ApollodorusApollodorus
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    because elves = faeries = magic folk = true OP race but they don't want to adhere to the roots/truth.

    This is why a lot of the community dislikes elves, you know. Every once in a while, some elves start saying crazy stuff like this, and then we all know that most people who choose to be elves are thinking it. =T

    Just stating the truth and not asking for much. I main archery and i consider magic the 'pro' route in most games, but the poor treatment of elves is real.

    As soon as we talk about that, suddenly we're the crazy ones.

    But I can relate to how you feel about it.

    It's mostly just that some (most) of the time elf QQ tends to be hyperbolic and unyielding, and everything no matter how seemingly unrelated or silly it is feeds into Nexon's secret war with them. There is an imbalance and addressing it is reasonable, but a lot of elves tend to
    Crisis1 wrote: »
    And again, I can understand the basic Close Combat skills, as they are a necessity, but why do elves have Bash? It makes no sense.
    the only thing i use bash for is entertainment like "beating girgashy in the face with a drum stick" and "slapping friends in pvp with a leek". It doesn't do meaningful damage for us elves and it will never reach the potential damage since we can't use CRK, can't use FGS, and just lack the str. [/quote]

    I thought they had a shield for that, with like +5 bash bonus or something. Did we not get that yet... or was it obtained through that stupid squire thing so nobody has one yet?
    Kaga wrote: »
    its not a negative int modifier, idunno where that came from..its just less of a buff compared to strength and will..so no giants wont be stronger in magic compared to elves..

    We are talking about uncapping hard cap; who can get more INT/STR.

    Giants have 200+ STR more than Elves
    Elves have 20+ more INT than giants.

    P.S INT is the easiest stat to cap for all races I believe (maybe str too for giants)

    Another thing, this is not how you "balance". Throwing the stats elves lack and giants lack won't balance ***

    Giants and humans can use ALL magic skills like elves, but elves can't use all combat skills like the 2 other races.

    So, and I can't believe nobody has pointed this out yet, what is with that weird dichotomy? It is obviously supposed to be Strength/Dexterity and Close Combat/Archery, with maybe Will/Intelligence if you really wanted to push the comparison. I mean giants are typecast as the 'hit things with smash/bash race' and elves (much to your dismay) are the 'shoot things with a bow, pew pew' race. Comparing an elf's int to a giant's str is a skewed argument, those two things were never meant to be juxtaposed. You might as well start talking about which one of them is the better bard or cleric.
  • PepperPepper
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    edited March 16, 2017
    Why

    Elves have no use for strength

    But intelligence is a must


    Why does devcat hate magic?

    They don t hate magic they hate elves. They treat elves like mushroons keep them in the dark and feed them cow manure We now have still crappy range and now they are taking away our magic

    KagaSherriDaktaro
  • SirRyuSirRyu
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    edited March 16, 2017
    Pepper wrote: »
    Why

    Elves have no use for strength

    But intelligence is a must


    Why does devcat hate magic?

    They don t hate magic they hate elves. They treat elves like mushroons keep them in the dark and feed them cow manure We now have still crappy range and now they are taking away our magic

    Have...you been in game since the update? Those crazy instant load magnums are scary.