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Stop Adding Fashion

Comments

  • SylekSylek
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,100
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    edited June 13, 2017
    Mirokujin wrote: »
    Nah this game is just tresh. They afk because theres nothing to do on the game. I'm not gonna praise the gacha buyers cause a game shouldn't have to rely on afkers to keep their game up. And those little once every season events aren't enough.

    I agree with @Leinei, you're coming off as extremely salty because Nexon isn't adding new end game content. Which, if they did, you'd beat it and then whine some more about how they're not adding it fast enough. One of the reasons I actually like Mabinogi is because it's not just end game and fighting and rawr. I actually like the fashion elements, though I'm broke and can't buy stuff. More end game content that caters only to the bored whiners is not what Mabinogi needs. We need more content for all players and Memento is a step towards that. Maybe it won't be the next Phantasm, but it's content that's not clothing. Take what you can get.
    Mirokujin wrote: »
    Its just theres nothing to do but marketing after you've reached end game. Most either afk or pvp. There should be some type of endless wave dungeon, or something along that sort... Honestly the endless dungeon posted above would solve most of my problems with the lack of end game

    uhm Threat in Renes is still a thing however most people forgot it exists. It's practically endless wave so go knock your self out.

    I did forget about this as well, but at the same time, it's still fairly predictable as you know what wave you'll be facing next. You're also burdened with protecting eggs. Other than that, it does get gradually more difficult every time and you can do a lot of waves back to back. This might actually satisfy some of those end game players, but if @Mirokujin is representative of some of them, they'll just whine that it's not new and how it starts off way too easy.
    You can not enact combat updates willy nilly either, like one enacts clothing, and from what I have seen, they did do big updates occasionally as rebalancing revamps. It isn't that fashion is taking over, but that the developers have no idea on how to do balancing in general, and mainly, they do not care as long as the player base is satisfied enough to throw money.

    You can come with a terrible outfit, but I wouldn't consider it gamebreaking, because people simply wouldn't wear it. Outfits are easier to implement, and with far less headaches.

    Combat updates are not simple. They require knowledge of the game and an actual idea of what would be balanced, except that since everyone has an idea on what is balanced and what is not. These updates affects a great deal of the playerbase, are harder to code, and not something you can put out every maintenance on a whim.

    @Mirokujin If you cannot appreciate the fact that the fashionogis you so despise support the game as much as you do, then I do not know what to say. Having nothing but vitriol at other players does nothing but hastens a game's end.

    Again, not a zero sums game.

    From my personal experience of making a simple, text based, rpg fight, balancing combat is not easy, even when you know the system. It is a lot of trial, error, adjust, repeat. And for me, that was just one fight against one enemy (that gradually got stronger and made balancing more difficult). Mabinogi has a lot of enemies. Just for your end game content, they have to create or edit enemies that will have stats and drops so that the creature can pose a challenge, but (ideally) not leave you without even hope of winning. The issue with this is that as you defeat this enemy, you learn its patterns, get stronger, and eventually, it's not even a challenge anymore. And then they have to repeat this process all over again.

    Memento might not be perfectly balanced when it comes out on the 15th, just part of that trial and error process. However, KR will likely have done plenty of testing to try and make it viable for all players.

    If you really want something to always be a challenge, something to always strive to beat, I could probably create an enemy using Mabinogi's system (provided I actually learn its system :D ), that will do absolutely nothing, giving you hope that maybe if you can do enough damage you'll win o:) , before obliterating you entirely. For added challenge, this will be a solo fight and will not allow for pet/partner summons (as is already applied in Festia's Crystal Defender) and will not allow for Nao Stones, Balloons, etc (as is applied in Phantasm). If you die, you have to exit and then try again with your foe at full health. >:)
  • MirokujinMirokujin
    Mabinogi Rep: 510
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    I only play hoping the game gets fun like it use to be.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,425
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    Forgive me if I am mistaken, but I feel as if you are genuinely trolling, or at the very least not addressing the claims others have made in regards to...

    -The difference between a new outfit and a combat revamp, update, etc

    -How exactly AFKers are "affecting" you (Merely existing is hardly true and very bigoted)

    -Massive complaints and what not to do, rather than what you want done.

    -The claim that fashion isn't the problem, but Nexon's ineptitude to balancing reforges strengths is, in addition to skills like Bash.

    Do you even have a high level character?
    LeineiAeolys
  • NamiriNamiri
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,700
    Posts: 112
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    edited June 13, 2017
    Mirokujin wrote: »
    Nah this game is just tresh. They afk because theres nothing to do on the game. I'm not gonna praise the gacha buyers cause a game shouldn't have to rely on afkers to keep their game up. And those little once every season events aren't enough.

    I said it before and I'll say it again. Nexon is a business not a charity. If not for gacha buyers how would you even expect a F2P MMORPG to keep running? Because Nexon and no other MMORPG publisher in existence would keep a game running if it's not making them money. That's just how these things work. P2P games rely on a steady flow of cash from player subscription fees to stay alive. Meanwhile F2P games have to rely on gachas. Because that's what has been proven to be most profitable in the F2P model. So obviously a business which is looking to make money is going to do whatever is most profitable.
    Leinei
  • MirokujinMirokujin
    Mabinogi Rep: 510
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    Warframe is still up and running and theres no trash gacha.
  • ArchmagickArchmagick
    Mabinogi Rep: 745
    Posts: 22
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    edited June 15, 2017
    Replace fashion items with fashion manuals (make finished items a LOT rarer)
    Put the mats for those items in dungeons/Alban/SMs (mats drop very rarely from gacha)

    done and done

    also i can tell you, people afk in mabi because they have to do irl. Believe it or not, a lot of Mabi's playerbase grew up with the game (at least in the chronological sense) and they balance gameplay with adult responsibilities. Of course it makes getting runs together and the like a PITA but what can you do?
  • MirokujinMirokujin
    Mabinogi Rep: 510
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    Thats a good idea as long as the mobs arent trash. The mobs look no where near scary lol and most just can be final hit'ed
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,595
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    This thread still exists?
    So what i'm hearing is you want to play Mabi like it was in the good ol days?
    Making new character is always an option for difficulty.
    Or reset all your skills at Duncan to make yourself weak.
    Bam the game is hard again.
    Now all you got to do is find people to play with, also avoid skills like firebolt cc+4, final hit, and bash.
    And you're playing the good ol mabi days vida game you wanted.
    Just remember everything will be twice as hard if you start a new character because the dungeon revamp.
    And those fashinogis that are annoying you? Just block so they aren't hurting your scenery.
    ba boom fixed your game enjoy the experience.
    Leinei
  • MirokujinMirokujin
    Mabinogi Rep: 510
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    Thats just dumb, game should be good like it use to be. They even changed their slogan from "Fantasy Life" to "Anime Life". Fashion/Anime stuff is cancerous trash that ruined this game.
  • FalcondaeFalcondae
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,555
    Posts: 158
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    edited June 19, 2017
    Mirokujin wrote: »
    That's just dumb, game should be good like it use to be.
    Almost all game theorists will probably bash you on this one, me included. Games change as time progresses because the player base changes as well, especially in an MMO setting. There are some who stick to certain formulas and game styles, but because of how open Mabinogi is, akin to a sandbox, it will change and shift with the trends that come and go with each new wave/generation of players. if you look at older games like World of Warcraft, you will see that this has happened to them as well; it's something that's inevitable for games that have lasted for a very long time.

    As people have suggested, just derank everything and play like you did back then if it's that important for you. Just remember that probably not a lot of people are going to cooperate with you just because you want to play it like the old glory days while everyone else is adjusting to new systems. If you don't like it, the easiest way is to just quit while you're ahead or learn to accept it.
    Mirokujin wrote: »
    They even changed their slogan from "Fantasy Life" to "Anime Life". Fashion/Anime stuff is cancerous trash that ruined this game.
    I'd love to know where you got that slogan. Second, just HOW is it cancerous? It isn't hurting you when people are AFK. I'll admit, I AFK as well, maybe not in public but still AFK. Why? Because I have a job, classes to take, and family responsibilities, as well as have, I dunno, a life outside of Mabinogi? And I'll admit that I buy a few gachapons time to time when they interest me; is that a crime that I want to toss a little money just to try my luck? Does that make me cancerous to the game as well?

    Oh no, why don't you tell me what I must do, oh great one who thinks micro transactions is a sin.

    In fact, why not tell everyone the exact solution within good business reason how you would exactly fix this so-called cancerous problem without overstepping the overlords of Nexon Korea?

    PS: This is coming from a non-fashionist too. Those who know me from the past will know that I was never into fashion (I was actually quite adamant about running away from guildmates when they wanted to dress me), but I did not let it bother me since I had other things to keep my interest in game, namely life skills and dungeon running.
  • SebastianSebastian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,870
    Posts: 445
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    edited June 20, 2017
    Mirokujin wrote: »
    Warframe is still up and running and theres no trash gacha.

    No, but eventually you need to buy more slots for more frames and weapons. Which can only be done so by paying for platinum, their equivalent of NX. Additionally, Warframe is a much different type of game next to Mabinogi to the point you can't even really justify using it as a comparison.
    Mirokujin wrote: »
    Thats just dumb, game should be good like it use to be. They even changed their slogan from "Fantasy Life" to "Anime Life". Fashion/Anime stuff is cancerous trash that ruined this game.

    You know they changed it back, right...? It's literally on the top of this page, so I'm sensing that you don't really know what you're arguing and are simply doing it for the sake of arguing. Better luck next time, sport.
  • KairiUJMKKairiUJMK
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,455
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    I honestly can't see how Fashion ruins the game, the gachas keep NX fed with money so mabi stays up and not taken down like many other good games I splurged money in :( there's plenty to do, even if they get all the skills to rank 1. I mean look at me, I'm a fashiongi, I afk most times cause I do need money for repairs and other things though I also DO HAVE A LIFE BEYOND MABINOGI INCLUDING UNIVERSITY CLASSES AND A DISABLED PARENT so therefore I afk rather than stay online at times especially during the morning and late night. I still have lots to rank up despite that others may have ranked up EVERYTHING, some don't even bother with some skills, and even if I finish everything completely on my main I got 7 human alts, 2 elves, and 2 giants on my account that I can play on to rank up and play with should I someday get bored that my main can't go any further. Everyone has an opinion, everyone has their own unique way of thinking, but if buying or marketing things makes people afk it's not really anyone's business but theirs. It's not getting in your way or keeping you from things, stop being salty about it (Seriously just mentioning how afk people dress 'expensively' sounds salty, I dress however I wanna dress when I afk I don't just slap on the best thing I got like most people but I do like to look nice at least when people see me) and just do something if your so bored, I find ways to keep myself entertained when I have breaks and time to play so there really is no excuse to just pin it on Fashion. Though I will admit, I do agree with having events that give gears and manuals like the old exploration events and events that made people HAVE to do things other than log on or wait a few hours to obtain tickets/stamps/etc. to get a certain item or clothing (Like how I got my Ladeca Ice Wand with fishing, blacksmithing, and etc those were fun days) and also manuals and patterns could be added to gachas for fun because no one would just have the item right away, they'd have to work to get the materials, or buy from someone who's making the materials to rank up their skills (reminds me of when I was a beginner being paid 2k for every stack of thick threads I could make from a pal of mine, only bad thing was sheep shearing skill never existed back then so no rank ups for that but did help rank my weaving a bit until it got to leather straps).

    So in other words I'm against the fashion being gone, but I agree with the need to have some events that make people DO THINGS rather than sit and wait for things cause that's kinda sad honestly :( Also nice to see you again Mirokujin although XD I forgot why your on my friendslist (it's really been a while), but since it says your offline most times I think you unadded me due to my going away a month for college XD sorry about that and this rant lolz but I just wanna throw in my opinion though it might not matter to most or any XD
    Zeo
  • MirokujinMirokujin
    Mabinogi Rep: 510
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    Woah if u use buy platnium you're dumb. In warframe you get plat by selling your prime parts to players. There is an actual good market. I haven't met a player who bought plat or has need to buy plat for anything on there.
  • MirokujinMirokujin
    Mabinogi Rep: 510
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    The fashion don't even make sense. Why have fake wings. Wings should be a skill that changes appearance like trans does. And half the stuff that comes out just doesn't fit in with the environment. It's dumb.
  • FalcondaeFalcondae
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,555
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    Mirokujin wrote: »
    The fashion don't even make sense. Why have fake wings. Wings should be a skill that changes appearance like trans does. And half the stuff that comes out just doesn't fit in with the environment. It's dumb.
    You realize that wings, just like fashion, are just for aesthetics, right...? There's nothing wrong with having wings just for looks, especially in an MMO. This isn't like SAO's Alfheim Online, where the main mode of transportation is flying. Besides, if you were around for the Doki Doki events, then you would have the ability to hover, and fly if you have the couples flight action, which is mostly for fun and people still use pets for modes of transportation. Wings are JUST AESTHETICS; nothing more, nothing less. There is nothing wrong with looking good. Why else did they give us the style tab? You know that before we had that, we were wasting durability just looking good, and that was a pain due to repairs.

    And how doesn't it fit in with the environment? Have you seen the wings that Ragnarok Online releases? Those are far worse than what Mabinogi has released, and let's not get into other games, like Spirit Tales/Talesweaver. At least some of the wings make sense while the others have some potential if you can think of a good backstory/reason for them.
    Mirokujin wrote: »
    Woah if u use buy platnium you're dumb. In warframe you get plat by selling your prime parts to players. There is an actual good market. I haven't met a player who bought plat or has need to buy plat for anything on there.
    Then either you're very blind or very ignorant so that you can try to make a point. No matter where you go or what online game you play, if there is a currency for micro-transactions, there will always be buyers of them because of perks or fashion. This is how it's always been, and probably how it will always be. You will have those you use real money to get game currency in order to advance or work through something at a much faster speed or some other perk. Maybe you don't like that and prefer to play slower and not use money to play. There's nothing wrong with that. Besides, where do you think they get Platinum to begin with? I'm sure they either bought it or have gotten it via other means of currency exchange. Regardless, there has to be a source. This isn't alchemy, where you can futilely change things into gold, or in this case, in-game currency.

    But you have to remember that like all game companies, there has to be some sort of monetary gain in order to upkeep a game, especially an MMO. You have to think where the company is going to get that money in mass amounts with little effort in order to create more content.

    I'll be honest, I'd love to see you try to make an MMO and host it for free while catering to even half of the population of the Mabinogi players in the NA servers WITHOUT ASKING PEOPLE TO HELP FUND YOU. Unless you're really rich somehow and can afford the upkeep as well as make content on your own, you're probably not going to get very far.

    Oh, and don't double post... There's an edit button for that, you know... Makes you look less like a kid trying to get attention/make your point count go up for no reason... lol...
    ZeoSebastianSylekLeineiAeolys
  • SylekSylek
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,100
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    Mirokujin wrote: »
    Woah if u use buy platnium you're dumb. In warframe you get plat by selling your prime parts to players. There is an actual good market. I haven't met a player who bought plat or has need to buy plat for anything on there.

    I don't even play Warframe, but just from reading the posts, I can tell that Platinum is the premium currency that lets you get the nice stuff. I know Warframe is free to play. But all free to play games have those accursed micro-transactions in some form or another. Mabinogi uses NX, which is used for Pon, VIP, and Gachas. Warframe uses Platinum. Runescape has (or at least had) membership that unlocked the rest of the world and skills.
    Free to play does not mean free to run. It costs money for the probably high electric bills, the servers, the websites, salaries, etc. Therefore, these companies need to make money somehow.
    Mirokujin wrote: »
    Thats just dumb, game should be good like it use to be. They even changed their slogan from "Fantasy Life" to "Anime Life". Fashion/Anime stuff is cancerous trash that ruined this game.

    I think this quote right here is what works against you the most. A fantasy life, or any life, is not going around bashing things in the face with an umbrella 24/7. From reading over everything, you want stronger stuff to fight to keep up with you and in general, more combat and rpg. Unlike games like WoW or RuneScape, Mabinogi has set itself up to be so open that you don't even have to go around killing stuff. As I'm sure someone has said, fashion is just an extra element to support that other part of the game.

    As someone who's broke irl, I don't pay for the style tab or gachas, but I still enjoy the fashion side of the game from time to time. Plus, there comes a point in the game where armor is pretty much worthless. I see several players who wear absolutely nothing or just fashion stuff. Usually, the fashion stuff is in their style tab while they have nothing in their armor.
  • AeolysAeolys
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,115
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    edited June 21, 2017
    I am gagging at how unobjective Mirokujin is. "Make the game like other games". "This game is trash".
    Why are you still around if you hate this game so much? You're keeping this post alive over two weeks whining like a child. Just leave.

    I'm calling troll. Go away troll. Go back to your rickety bridge.
    SebastianGretaLeinei
  • MirokujinMirokujin
    Mabinogi Rep: 510
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    Warframe isn't slow. And every1 starts with 50 plat so it came from somewhere. I am not saying there shouldn't be in-game purchases. Ik mabi needs money. I am saying gacha and fashion just is a trash way to do it. They should invest in something much more content heavy. Once you buy the gacha, you sell what you don't want and it's over. They could use that as a way to make people work for that items. Also it would make fashionogi players a lot stronger. They would need to be higher lvl to work for the mats in some type of dungeon. Using manuals instead of instantly getting them would just be 100% better. Once they add that they could add new weapon manuals and dungeons every so often. It would make fashion a lot less boring.
  • SebastianSebastian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,870
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    edited June 21, 2017
    Mirokujin wrote: »
    Warframe isn't slow. And every1 starts with 50 plat so it came from somewhere. I am not saying there shouldn't be in-game purchases. Ik mabi needs money. I am saying gacha and fashion just is a trash way to do it. They should invest in something much more content heavy. Once you buy the gacha, you sell what you don't want and it's over. They could use that as a way to make people work for that items. Also it would make fashionogi players a lot stronger. They would need to be higher lvl to work for the mats in some type of dungeon. Using manuals instead of instantly getting them would just be 100% better. Once they add that they could add new weapon manuals and dungeons every so often. It would make fashion a lot less boring.

    You can't use beginner platinum to purchase items off other players. So, no, it can't be a source.
    Leinei
  • FalcondaeFalcondae
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,555
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    Mirokujin wrote: »
    Warframe isn't slow. And every1 starts with 50 plat so it came from somewhere.
    At least you admit to one thing. The thing is that there will ALWAYS be people who buy more to keep that economy going. Oh, and stop comparing Mabinogi to Warframe; it's like comparing apples to oranges...
    Mirokujin wrote: »
    I am not saying there shouldn't be in-game purchases. Ik mabi needs money. I am saying gacha and fashion just is a trash way to do it. They should invest in something much more content heavy. Once you buy the gacha, you sell what you don't want and it's over.
    And there is a problem with that how? Every game will show you that there is a form of fashion that people will try to achieve so that they are satisfied with how their characters look. Gachas, while more akin to gambling, is just a faster way of making money, especially for a game with a much smaller population than it had in the past. We just had a content update, Momento. Why aren't you doing that instead of sitting here complaining? Or is it too boring for you because it's too hard or you can't do it solo because you're not uber enough? Well, guess what? Either do it and accept the pain, improve yourself and take the challenge, or just quit.
    Mirokujin wrote: »
    They could use that as a way to make people work for that items. Also it would make fashionogi players a lot stronger. They would need to be higher lvl to work for the mats in some type of dungeon. Using manuals instead of instantly getting them would just be 100% better. Once they add that they could add new weapon manuals and dungeons every so often. It would make fashion a lot less boring.
    First off, unless you didn't get it the first time, not a lot of people have all the time in the world to grind for materials to make what they want. Most of us grew up with Mabinogi starting from middle school to high school, and some of us into college and working field. Unfortunately, real life takes a much higher priority but at the same time, since we're still playing while we work, throwing a few bucks at a gachapon isn't too much of a problem because we're hoping to get something nice almost instantly while also supporting the game's maintenance. Nexon just needs to know how to balance the gacha spamming for fashion items and the other extras they add, such as X-Grade weapons.

    Now, speaking from the mind of a life skiller who does things hardcore instead of using seals...

    Grinding for mats is a pain because of the drop rate. Back in the days, grinding for them was a chore, and still is today, but it was much easier to buy from others because there were more people. Now, not so much because of the population drop, and with a population drop, it also means a drop in people who pay for subs, gachas, and even micro-transactions like dyes and the like. Again, Nexon has to find a balance for the gacha drops instead of just stuffing random items in there.

    As for your thought on the mats only available at these so-called super hard dungeons that are near impossible to beat, that will create an even greater power rift between the super strong and normal players. It's already happening and we don't need such a senseless idea to make it any worse. It's bad enough that Demonic Materials are from Lord Missions and are very rarely seen outside of it. Then you have the Celtic mats, which from what I heard are even more of a pain in the butt to get if you can't get into a raid just because you're not as strong as the group wants you to be.

    There are some people who only play for the fashion, and to be honest, if they want to play that way, they shouldn't have to be forced to have to grind something so insane to get it, unless it has some godly stat or buff on it. As is, the drop rates are pretty dismal, and worse if you're one of those who prefer to play solo.

    So, why not just leave the Fashionogis and go run something? They're not harming you in any way when they AFK with their pretty clothes, are they? They're not hindering your progress in getting stronger, are they? And honestly, probably some of those Fashionogis are already endgame and just like to stand there and be pretty. What's boring to you may not be boring to others.

    Is there something wrong with that, Fashion Police?
    Gakkuriaqua