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Grandmaster Nurfs

JJJJ
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in General Chat
So I've noticed that the Grandmaster Bard's music buff duration has been decreased from +50 seconds down to +30 seconds, and the +5 music buff effect has been removed. This makes the Grandmaster give the same boosts as the Master had.
The same has been done to both alchemy talents; Grandmaster doesn't boost them higher than Master.

For those talents does Grandmaster now exist only to use the Unique Effects?

Anyone else suddenly missing stats from other Grandmaster nurfs?

Comments

  • SapphiraMuseSapphiraMuse
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    The Grandmaster boosts have become Unique Effects for each talent. You can only have one Unique Effect active at a time and it costs AP to change the active Unique Effect. Not sure how much AP it costs, if it scales with each change, or if there's a cooldown before you can change again. Those things will be learned in time though, I suppose.
  • AellAell
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    Some talents became not worth the grandmaster grind, though. If master and grandmaster have the same regular boosts, you'd be wasting another 1mil and a week's work just for a journal entry.
  • IyasenuIyasenu
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    The Grandmaster boosts have become Unique Effects for each talent. You can only have one Unique Effect active at a time and it costs AP to change the active Unique Effect. Not sure how much AP it costs, if it scales with each change, or if there's a cooldown before you can change again. Those things will be learned in time though, I suppose.

    Not really, this is just a nerf.to the base grandmaster boost for Music.
    I just got GM Warrior and it's still +90 Str + 30 HP on TOP of the 30 max/min unique effect.
  • JoeyDee9JoeyDee9
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    edited July 6, 2017
    I honestly don't know why people are PO'd about it.

    Old System
    GM Bards could only be GM Bards and got +5 buff while losing out on everything else.

    New system
    GM's Bards have to have ACTIVE GM bard for +5 buff but they get passive buffs from all other GM's.

    Bard, Battle Alchemy, Gunner, and possibly construct all don't get changes from M->GM. It's hardly different from before other than you can get the stats from others GM's.
    AlmostNotsuper
  • ZarricZarric
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    What us bards are pissed off about is the fact that they nerfed the GM effects of bard before the unique ability comes into play.

    Before the update we got +15 HP, STR, +50 Music Buff Duration and +5 Music Buff Effect.
    After the update we get +15 HP, STR, +30 Music Buff Duration.

    So basically it should of been this:
    +15 HP, STR, +50 Music Buff Duration, +5 Music Buff Effect AND +5 Music Buff Effect, +30 Music Buff Duration (If unique is active)
    Jayy124CarlizeKimberlyZeo
  • JoeyDee9JoeyDee9
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    edited July 6, 2017
    So? It's still a buff if you use the unique effect. You could ONLY be a GM bard before. Now you HAVE to be an ACTIVE GM bard for, what is still actually, a better buff. It was a balancing act to not have too much power creep.

    I'm not pissed that my construct alchemy GM lost it's passive bonuses. GM Before was 6/6/6/5 rates. New passive GM is 5/5/5/4 rates, same as master. BUT the unique buff is another 5% to synth, frag, and crystal making, along with some other things. So net gain is 4% rates IF you use the unique buff and -1% if you choose to use a different unique buff.

    Active GM's bards actually got a buff of +10 second duration. They moved some other stuff around in battle alch and gunner GM buffs too.
  • Jayy124Jayy124
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    Zarric wrote: »
    What us bards are pissed off about is the fact that they nerfed the GM effects of bard before the unique ability comes into play.

    Before the update we got +15 HP, STR, +50 Music Buff Duration and +5 Music Buff Effect.
    After the update we get +15 HP, STR, +30 Music Buff Duration.

    So basically it should of been this:
    +15 HP, STR, +50 Music Buff Duration, +5 Music Buff Effect AND +5 Music Buff Effect, +30 Music Buff Duration (If unique is active)

    Right! So we basically get nothing, besides a unique effect we already had.
    Carlize
  • JoeyDee9JoeyDee9
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    Jayy124 wrote: »
    Zarric wrote: »
    What us bards are pissed off about is the fact that they nerfed the GM effects of bard before the unique ability comes into play.

    Before the update we got +15 HP, STR, +50 Music Buff Duration and +5 Music Buff Effect.
    After the update we get +15 HP, STR, +30 Music Buff Duration.

    So basically it should of been this:
    +15 HP, STR, +50 Music Buff Duration, +5 Music Buff Effect AND +5 Music Buff Effect, +30 Music Buff Duration (If unique is active)

    Right! So we basically get nothing, besides a unique effect we already had.

    You get +10 seconds compared to before, along with the ability to gain the passives of all the others GM's. It's still a really good deal.
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,240
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    Zarric wrote: »
    What us bards are pissed off about is the fact that they nerfed the GM effects of bard before the unique ability comes into play.

    Before the update we got +15 HP, STR, +50 Music Buff Duration and +5 Music Buff Effect.
    After the update we get +15 HP, STR, +30 Music Buff Duration.

    So basically it should of been this:
    +15 HP, STR, +50 Music Buff Duration, +5 Music Buff Effect AND +5 Music Buff Effect, +30 Music Buff Duration (If unique is active)

    I don't know if I can make this any clearer than Joey already has, but...

    Considering that the GM effects didn't exist before this update, and considering that there's nothing to directly compete with bard effects that got a GM effect (I.e., another buffing talent, as there are multiple damaging ones), you have nothing to complain about. Nothing changed, they just refrained from adding a bit more power creep.

    If they had done what you're asking for, the bard GM would actually be slightly less of a boost. Everyone's buffs would just be stronger. Also, since these buff boosts only ever came into effect upon achieving GM status anyway, it made sense to transfer them over to the GM effect. I suppose they could've added a couple of STR and HP points to the grandmaster talent to compensate, though. Not that it matters. =3=;
  • ZarricZarric
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    That's where you're wrong @AlmostNotsuper. They did exist and any self respecting bard who cares knows what happened here. IT doesn't just vanish over night, OH wait it did in this case.

    I have proof of the GM bard effects and I've been a bard in general for probably longer than you have, and have been a GM bard since February 2015 when I made the switch to it. I know a lot about bard, how it works and pretty much everything there is to know.

    But yes, double proof here.
    cYhh7We.jpg
    and
    8c650dad67.png

    That screenshot was taken in March of 2015, and the effects of the original GM bard did not change until this latest update.
    lceCreamKimberly
  • IyasenuIyasenu
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    So the talent level bonus improvements for Master -> Grandmaster was nerfed for:

    Music
    Battle Alchemy
    Construct Alchemy
    Puppetry, same Str/Dex, but removes the +235->+300 Marionette HP and +3 -> +4 Marionette Defense (pfft)
    Gunslinger, same HP, but removes the +18max/+15min -> +24max/+16min

    So for these, unless you're going to activate their Unique effect, you're not getting much use out of making the leap from Master to Grandmaster of these talents.
    Eh...
    Save them for last...
    And, anyone who was already GM bard before update and was planning on using another talent's Unique effect, enjoy your effective music buffing nerf... :s
  • RheyRhey
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,175
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    edited July 6, 2017
    Ugh. I only switched to GM bard for the supposedly music buff and extended duration to stack with unique for singing. This sux.

  • dowiedowie
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    nice nerfs! I'm sure people will want to get multiple GMs now
    Kimberly
  • JoeyDee9JoeyDee9
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    edited July 6, 2017
    Rhey wrote: »
    Ugh. I only switched to GM bard for the supposedly music buff and extended duration to stack with unique for singing. This sux.

    You still get that though. If you were GM bard prior to the update you now have the GM bard Unique Ability.

    Iyasenu wrote: »
    So the talent level bonus improvements for Master -> Grandmaster was nerfed for:

    Music
    Battle Alchemy
    Construct Alchemy
    Puppetry, same Str/Dex, but removes the +235->+300 Marionette HP and +3 -> +4 Marionette Defense (pfft)
    Gunslinger, same HP, but removes the +18max/+15min -> +24max/+16min

    So for these, unless you're going to activate their Unique effect, you're not getting much use out of making the leap from Master to Grandmaster of these talents.
    Eh...
    Save them for last...
    And, anyone who was already GM bard before update and was planning on using another talent's Unique effect, enjoy your effective music buffing nerf... :s

    They weren't really nerfed though. If you had them prior to the update you still have the benefits of the old GM. It's just that some of the stats were moved to the unique ability.

    Are people just angry that bard wasn't given more power creep? You can have the GM bard unique active and gain like 50+ extra str now. With the old system you'd have never been able to get that. You'll also be able to gain more int, more dex, and other stats while retaining your +5 buff effect.

    In the old system you chose which GM you wanted, in the new one you choose which Unique Ability. The +5 buff shifted from being GM restricted to unique ability restricted. Either way this whole thing is just another form of power creep. And a temporary gold sink.
    AlmostNotsuperMikuV3najee508
  • IyasenuIyasenu
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,265
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    edited July 6, 2017
    JoeyDee9 wrote: »
    Iyasenu wrote: »
    So the talent level bonus improvements for Master -> Grandmaster was nerfed for:

    Music
    Battle Alchemy
    Construct Alchemy
    Puppetry, same Str/Dex, but removes the +235->+300 Marionette HP and +3 -> +4 Marionette Defense (pfft)
    Gunslinger, same HP, but removes the +18max/+15min -> +24max/+16min

    So for these, unless you're going to activate their Unique effect, you're not getting much use out of making the leap from Master to Grandmaster of these talents.
    Eh...
    Save them for last...
    And, anyone who was already GM bard before update and was planning on using another talent's Unique effect, enjoy your effective music buffing nerf... :s

    They weren't really nerfed though. If you had them prior to the update you still have the benefits of the old GM. It's just that some of the stats were moved to the unique ability.

    But!
    Since I'm not going to get those Unique effects, because you can only have one Unique effect active at once, and it isn't going to be any of those since I was leaning towards Cleric or Close Combat or one of the crafting talents, I effectively will be getting nothing for being grandmaster in those above talents, and slightly more than nothing in regards to Puppetry and Gunslinger.

    Kinda laaaaaame.
    Kimberly
  • HimochiHimochi
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    I just commented on the actual update post inquiring as to why some Talents had their existing GM-level stats changed and others didn't. Notable for me is that GM Merchant still has the total 40 Luck that it did before, and ALSO gains the slot and the 100 weight if it's active. Yet the abovementioned have lost some of the stats they had before unless they're active? That doesn't make any sense.
    Carlize
  • EllisyaEllisya
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    There's no nerf.

    I'm having same buff rate as before. It's just bard doesn't really get much bonus compare to other grandmaster, that's all.
  • JoeyDee9JoeyDee9
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    Himochi wrote: »
    I just commented on the actual update post inquiring as to why some Talents had their existing GM-level stats changed and others didn't. Notable for me is that GM Merchant still has the total 40 Luck that it did before, and ALSO gains the slot and the 100 weight if it's active. Yet the abovementioned have lost some of the stats they had before unless they're active? That doesn't make any sense.

    Think of it as more of a rework of the GM system instead of a buff. Also remember that you can change your active buff (for AP? would like to know how much).

    You can get the crafting ones and use some AP to change when you want to craft things.
  • HimochiHimochi
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    Ellisya wrote: »
    There's no nerf.

    I'm having same buff rate as before. It's just bard doesn't really get much bonus compare to other grandmaster, that's all.

    Correct. Just like before, when you could only have one GM, you only got the 5% Buff effect if Bard was the GM you chose. Now, you only get it if it's active. Same difference, in that regard.

    What has changed is that some talents have kept everything they had as your one-and-only GM, AND gained MORE new things if you have them active. Whereas in the example of Bard, you have no extra stats whether you're Master or GM.

    So, for example, if you're something OTHER than an active GM Bard currently, and you think "hey, it's neat that you can get the passive boosts from GMing everything"...you don't get ANYTHING passive out of getting GM bard. It's the same stats as Master now. 15 STR, 15 HP, 30 Duration. If you don't make it active, you gain nothing from it by spending the 1m and the 20 seals to GM it.
    AlmostNotsuper
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
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    Zarric wrote: »
    That's where you're wrong @AlmostNotsuper. They did exist and any self respecting bard who cares knows what happened here. IT doesn't just vanish over night, OH wait it did in this case.

    I have proof of the GM bard effects and I've been a bard in general for probably longer than you have, and have been a GM bard since February 2015 when I made the switch to it. I know a lot about bard, how it works and pretty much everything there is to know.

    But yes, double proof here.
    cYhh7We.jpg
    and
    8c650dad67.png

    That screenshot was taken in March of 2015, and the effects of the original GM bard did not change until this latest update.

    You misunderstand me. I was saying that the GM effects (or unique abilities, whatever they're called) system that was just implemented did not exist, not claiming that GM bard never gave any buffs to music buff skills. I mentioned that there was no change from before; do you think I didn't know that GM bard provided a buff to duration and buff effects before?

    I'd like to reiterate my point, but I'd just be repeating what other people have said. Nothing has changed; you still only get the buff to bard skills from being a GM bard.