Stricter Blacklisting and changes to this function

Negumiko · August 3, 2017

it seems like the current blacklist system benefits the person you are blacklisting more then it helps you. they can still send you notes, they can see you and you can't see them, and you can still see their public party when they are trying to sell stuff. when someone is blacklisted it is often for a good reason so they should not be able to contact you or see you in any way at all.

Samuelalex · August 3, 2017

You do make a good point about the larger lists increasing lag due to the code having to run for each person whenever they cross paths with you. I am not exactly sure how to aliviate that without fully understanding the coding process used to make this possible. Depending how complex the commands are they can execute rather fast or have certain checks which the condition has to go through first like one check is if the person is on the blacklist and if that is true these things happen. So if that is true then the suggestions could be added to the list of things that happen if the condition of blacklist is true.

I remember the hide all you are refering to. It use to happen a lot at banquets due to overplay so that only one group playing could be heard and not the others. I dont know if that would come into play unless maybe a group of people started mimicing the bahavior that the original person was blacklisted for but its hard to tell really.

purpley · August 5, 2017

I would like to see it as a separate list so it doesn't take up space on the friends list. There is also a way to blacklist through the options under chat; don't know if that functions any differently as far as notes but I believe you can delete someone first so they cant see you on/off line, channel ect. then add their name to blacklist in options. As the man said though it takes two to argue and I can honestly say after nearly 10yrs in mabi the only ones on my blacklist are the gold selling bots.

Samuelalex · August 5, 2017

The current system does not prevent blacklisted people from sending you notes or viewing which channels you are logging on to. I have a person blacklisted but i still see them login and am certain they see which channel I am logging on to as well. Blacklist should end all forms of communication and show the person offline to anyone who is blacklisted. The reason I wish to blacklist people is due to problems they cause and periodically restart through aquantiences they have. I would like to block them and not have them contact me at all anymore, but the current system has flaws and allow loopholes such as group chats and notes involving persons who are on my blacklist.

Sherri · August 5, 2017

I agree, the blacklist system could be a lot more better.

I'm the kind of person who blacklists somebody who is being rude and then after a few seasons pass by, I take them off and hope they either forgot about me or they actually aren't being jerks anymore. They never usually pick a fight or anything with me again.

For some people though it's a lot more difficult. I often hear stories on how even when blacklisted, people keep noting and harassing the victim nonstop. It's sad how blacklist isn't even doing it's job.

Forgetmenot · August 14, 2017

I support this. We definitely need a better blacklist system in place.

Eralea · August 14, 2017

I don't use the current blacklist system because it's more beneficial for me to be able to see when and where the knuckleheads are behaving like knuckleheads.

The only thing it's good for is making spam bots in towns disappear.

Opalthira · August 14, 2017

The fact that no one in here suggested screenshotting your notes messages pm, etc. creating a folder of evidence against someone harassing you.
Then sending that folder to nexon as proof that someone is harassing you which should be against ToS.

Samuelalex · August 14, 2017

Opal is right that everything should be documented with complete details including the names of the persons involved and other identifying info such as email or ip address if you can obtain it. I have done that in the past but unfortunately Nexon failed to act upon the 50 plus pages of data sent over to them about a certain individual and their friends acting hostile towards me and even spreading rumors about me to degrade me and defame me. It was all lies to benefit the bullies and further harass the victim. If the reports are not taken seriously and acted upon promptly the situation can escalate which it has done for me. Blacklist needs to be changed to prevent abusive people from contacting others in any way or form. Blacklist means you want no contact after all, but it fails to live up to that and allows for loopholes to bypass it basically making the blacklist useless. Blacklist needs to be changed to effectively cut all ties between the harassing party that the victims.

Samuelalex · August 17, 2017

Bumping this so it can hopefully be sent over to help improve the blacklisting system and make the game more enjoyable and safer for everyone. Not everyone you blacklist is someone to worry about contacting you again, but in cases of say exfriends or even exs in general you may not want to talk to them if they are on bad terms with you. There is a chance of meeting someone excessively rude that you may not want to deal with again such as bidding for items which are inflated far beyond reason (happened before so I do not which to bid/buy from person again). Another example thiese changes would benefit the community is by preventing scammers from contacting players to steal money/items from them. If you see someone you think is suspecious other than reporting blacklist should also prevent that person from communicating at all to avoid problems such as pms or notes to try and get money or items from people. Specifically the gold bots that offer nx for real money that have random names and seem to pop up freqantly which are really scammers to try and take money from people. I would rather have it so there is no way people like that can communicate with me in game after they have been blacklisted. Lets make the game safer and more enjoyable for everyone.

Samuelalex · September 24, 2017

Thanks for your comments here. I'll try to respond to what I can but I feel like it is unsafe for me to even post anymore without being attacked or reported for it.

I will go check the settings and see if adding known people to that list helps end their harassing comments towards me (not sure if it will block notes though).

Ive already thought of a different way to handle guild blacklisting situation so Ill go back and edit that part out. For mutual friend situation that kind of caused problems for me as a mutual friend was able to add a blacklisted person to a group chat where they said some pretty hurtful things before I repeatedly closed out of the window they kept trying to add me back in. At the time only thing I could do was go invis so the Pms stopped. I guess from that point on only thing I can do is be wary of group pms and close out any who involve people Ive blacklisted.

That maybe true about the servers having more stress put on them by changing the way blacklist handles the display of users. I am not sure how to correct this but maybe it can be tested to see what works best? I know in my early years people would spam music at banquet so Id blacklist at least 5 people to reduce lag and overplay but later I would remove them after it ended. Maybe how option to temp block someone until you change areas or channels then have them come back or you can select to perma block which keeps name on there forever. Temp block could be for like spammers who generally arent seen again the next day for example. Not sure if spliting the list would help any.

Ive been screenshoting all the notes and posts that have been harassing towards me along with a detailed record of who was involved ect. I dont know if deleting things really makes it stop, but I think its best people not contact me in the first place then there wouldnt be any problems. As they say let by gones be by gones so they leave me alone and I leave them alone. I walked away a year ago and unfortuantly certain folks refuse to do the same and walk in opposite direction from me which there is honestly nothing I can do about. Hope they take your advice about being bigger person and walking away meaning end all communications towards me (on forums, in game, pms, ect) but we will have to see if that happens.

Age difference really has nothing to do with what is going on with me. Bullying can happen at any age and towards anyone. Ive known younger people that tend to participate in bullying more than adults from my personal experience - as peer pressure and the desire to fit in or be popular can drive them to do things. I was bulled all my life in school and just in general so I know how difficult it is to break free of those type of people. I know how difficult it is for them to end their bullying towards others as well sadly. As an adult who has been there and experienced this all before I just hope people take your advice and walk away instead of futher instigating things with me.

Having a stronger blacklist here would be just one step towards the right direction to allow people to end communications completely with people who they do not want to be associated with for whatever reason. Will be updating the first post to exclude things about guild blacklist as that has already been addressed a different way.

Samuelalex · September 24, 2017

Honestly I dont think any of my ideas will but I throw them out there for consideration anyways.

The idea behind this is to make the game safer for people by having a better blacklist system in place to protect them from situation such as repeating notes from individuals whom they do not want to have contact with (for whatever reason). Im sure there are good people in the game who dont need to be blacklisted, but for the troublemakers and bots there should be something in place to make sure they are not able to contact the person by any means. So far the main problem I have is with notes which do not seem to be included with the blacklist system.

People should be accountable for their actions no matter their age. Even kids can hold responsibility and blame for a situation happening. Take for an example if a kid sends me a threatening note they are still responsible for what is in that message. In a situation like that an adult should be there to intervene and tell them to stop, but that doesn't always happen. This is digressing into something completely else but Ill just say this blame comes from both sides and hostility needs to end on both sides as well. No matter the age of persons involved they need to be bigger person as you say and walk away (as stated before end all communications in game, on forums, through notes ect.) so that we can all go back to playing a game with our friends. I just wish blacklist was better so that I wouldnt be receiving notes ect from people I have blocked and by doing so clearly do not want to communicate with (again for whatever reason).

I just want to enjoy this game with my friends and have the freedom to make new friends without hostility as I was able to about a year and a half ago and haven't been able to do since. As you say let kids be kids but those kids also need to let people of all ages be players and enjoy the game too.

I want to keep this free of personal type stuff from now on so if you want you can pm me directly else lets try to focus on ideas to improve the blacklist system since that is the topic presented for discussion ^^ I modified the first post a bit asking for ideas how to improve the blacklist concerning group pms which a blacklisted person is involved and also deleted the part about guild block since it is no longer relevant.

Policroma · September 25, 2017

Hardmuscle wrote: »

The only thing wrong with the current blacklist system is people can message you. Otherwise there is nothing wrong with it. -- People are overlooking a very basic fact of life, it takes more than one person to argue ... you can't do it alone. If you're not looking for trouble or literally trying to exacerbate a pre-existing issue, nothing else should be needed. -- It's not as though anyone is forcing you to play .. or preventing you from logging out. ~ -- my two cents

Honestly, I'd be happy with this alone...

Well, no, I take that back. I'd like a separate "spam" list too.

Siodhan · September 25, 2017

Yeah, this update has been a long time coming, really. It always annoyed me that I can't see the person that I blacklist, but they can see me. There's also a potential issue that alternate sources for chat messages are still available for use to a blacklisted person, for instance guild chat (although blocking a guildie generally seems like a useless idea, I can see some guild, somewhere, someday keeping a person around despite another person not liking them. I've actually discovered that this is a thing by an accidental misclick while trading a guildie and still seeing his chat, so I know this used to be a thing at least). I think notes still work too.

For ingame you may also want to consider a soft and a hard block. The former being able to still able to see the person and their effects, but no messages. Though initially having had this idea, while I was actually typing out I've come to wonder what benefits that would have. I'm not sure. Perhaps being able to percieve someone that is actively trying to troll you who has a friend who can still see you or something, then badmouthing behind your back without knowing. No idea.

In any event, I approve of this suggestion. It is needed.

Samuelalex · September 25, 2017

I have a good idea whom you are posing here on behalf of and I will tell you this as I told other people coming around me under false pretenses age does not excuse bullying someone else. Just because someone is young does not allow them to come and harass others or send their friends to do so. Frankly you know nothing of what Ive been through the past year because of very abusive people that I have already blacklisted and whom have retaliated against me as a result of me ending my communications with them. They use their friends to harass me now and make little insider type refrerences to deter blame from themselves. They bear resposibilitily for this situation for the fact they did not understand what the purpose of me blacklisting them meant. They still pursuit to communicate with me hostility via their friends which is in fact retailiation for me blacklisting them among other things. I would like you to stop making judgements of me when you do not know the whole situation nor what I have been through as a result of a kids mistakes and I must note continued mistakes. Its time that kid admit they are wrong and walk away along with all their friends walking away from me and mine and do not make any attempt to contact any of us again. That is how this kid amendments for all the wrongdoings towards me and my friends over this past year and a half.

As stated previously I do not want to address these personal issues here. As I noticed several of my messages keep getting deleted so I have made sure to document everything with screenshots as proof of fowl actions towards me. Deleting harassing messages is like sweeping it under a rug to empower bullies to keep targeting me for more. Its time these bullies realize this has gone on for a very long time and its time they finally leave me and my friends alone for good with no communications towards us at all for any reason which also includes communications via their friends (which if hostility purposes is harassment and stalking).

I thank everyone here for their support on making changes to the blacklisting shstem to help make the game safer and more friendly. If you can think of anything to add please post here and I will update the first topic asap. I would like this topic to remain on the subject from now on so if you have something personal you would like to say outside is discussion you are welcome to pm me for a complete discussion.

Samuelalex · September 25, 2017

Actually there are cases where say bots may try to hack people through party invites or maybe to try and meet them for trades ect so if you blacklist someone and they are still able to communicate with you in that situation it does put you at risk. In any case if you blacklist it should end all forms of communication as that is the logical purpose of blacklisting in the first place if you still want to talk then you wont have them blacklisted in the first place. The situation varies on why someone has the desire to blacklist another and the situation for each person should not limit the way the blacklist functions. It should work the same way for everyone to end all forms of communication for whatever reason they feel justifies blacklisting another.

Samuelalex · September 25, 2017

I see you are still trying to insult me and claim I am insane. Another direct target towards me which is now the third time. I have taken screenshots of that conversation as well incase you try to delete it later. Seriously its about time you and your friends walk away and do not come back. As someone here said be the bigger person and leave. As it is clear you are connected with one another I hope you take that advice and end this type of hostility towards me. Situations like this are exactly why the blacklist needs to be improved so that clear targeted insults will not be sent to me in game. Sadly theres no way to stop it from happening here (believe me I know) so I will make a suggestion here: walk away and do not look back. Do not contact me or my friends in any form (in game, on forums, through pms, ect) as I stated already I already did a year ago and now it is time this other party (who seems to be growing in size ) does the same so myself and my friends can have a fun and fruitful life in this game. Now I have things I need to attend to so if you have something personal to address with me take it to PMs otherwise it has no place here on the public forums.

This topic is to discuss why we need better blacklist system and to get ideas how to improve it so lets keep the focus on that from this point forward

Samuelalex · September 25, 2017

Sadly you are quite wrong there. Labeling people with false mental conditions to make them viewed as insane is actually harassment and it has happened to me multiple times from different people as well iconically. There is only a select few I need to blacklist and the game will be much better for me when they are no longer able to contact me. Im sure there are plenty who would benefit from excommunicating certain troublemakers from the game entirely as well. Like for example exfriends who left on bad terms so will obviously has resentment and hostility towards you. Just food for thought as to why this system would help people to end all communications by people such as the situation above. Yep yep Ill be having a very good day indeed thanks.

EastSea · September 25, 2017

I agree with the OP, blacklisting should be updated. There were countless times my sister would get threatening messages and it sometimes would take days for said person to get banned. Notes would keep coming, and she only was able to screenshot them to send them to GMs. This was back in the day, aswell.

I want to point out to you that the person you have been speaking of hasn't actually been able to play Mabinogi often for about 4 months. They were able to get on occasionally, but they were not able to stay online for long lengths of time. The last few weeks, they have actually disappeared off of the face of the Earth.

That said, as someone who has been a member and dear friend of this person since March, I did not know anything about this situation until I read your posts (as refered to by Anemki). This proves said person hasn't been 'harassing' you. Infact, the members have no idea that this is going on, and I don't think I'm going to tell them either.

The person you are referring too is against the spreading of drama. If you ever really knew this person, you should be able to point this out from their character.

Infact - how ironic - their username means "the mental state of peace or tranquility".

Samuelalex · September 25, 2017

Anything said about a person's physical or mental state of being that is not confirmed by a doctor (which you are not one) is called harassment and is also discrimination as this false claim of mental conditions are being used to justify abusive statements towards me by multiple persons now. I will be alerting the 3rd party advocate of these statements who will be helping me with this situation from an unbiased point of view (which friends of this particular person will not have towards myself or anyone who supports me).

I advise anyone communicating with me from now on to refrain from statements concerning my health or any claimed health conditions they think I might have as anything said that is untrue is harassment and discrimination towards a disabled person.

As for drama I will say sending friends and acquaintances to spam a person's thread with personal judgments and harassment kinda disproves your statement about the person not wanting drama. Believe me, I have known that person over a year (going on 2 now) so I know how they are like and how they react to situations that are unfavorable for them. A glimpse into my inbox of mabi will tell Nexon's admins the true nature of this person and their acquaintances towards me. They are welcome to look at it anytime as I do not delete any of my messages and have made screenshots of everything for my personal records. If they truly do not want drama then they (along with their friends) need to start acting peacefully towards myself and others especially in suggestions thread and recruitment. They need to be the bigger person here and walk away (do not contact me or respond to me at all, do not contact me in game, on forums, through pms, through notes, ect) and my 3rd party advocate will be helping me with any future situations involving hostility from this point onwards.

Now since we have spent the last page and a half talking about ethics and falsifying my mental health I think its time we get back to the real subject of modifying the blacklist to prevent communication in any form from individuals who have been put on the blacklist by another user (for whatever reason). The notes sytem should be included as part of the blacklist to prevent people from sending notes in game. Anyone else have any relevant discussions about the actual subject here?

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