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Delay and Latency.

Paradox_EdgeParadox_Edge
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in Feedback and Suggestions
Ok, seriously. We need to do something about this divide in lag for the game. You shouldn't have to live in the US to be able to play the game to it's full potential. Healing magic is one of the biggest things here. I live in Sweden and I get a decent 170 Ping. Yet I am just unable to cast healing spells at the fastest possible rate (which is around 4). I only get off 1 every 0.7 seconds or so. Why can't Nexon just fix the whole issue by making magic slower, but more potent. Hard cap Healing and other spells to 1 second cooldown but have their effectiveness upped. There's so many options for Nexon to completely negate all Delay and Lag in the game yet they try none of them. I think that needs to change. Because gosh darnit bring back EU servers or fix your damn lag issue, nexon. >:V

Comments

  • Paradox_EdgeParadox_Edge
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    And yes. I have tried EVERY option for reducing lag. Including port forwarding. Nothing changes. I get rid of ghosting for my skills. but Nothing changes the actual use speed of magic and other items.
  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
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    They will never bring back the EU servers because EU broke the rules by going behind nexon;s back by releasing a patch when they were told not to.
    Have you also tried to Disabling Nagle's Algorithm? Also it's known that the farther you are away from the host server (So from L.A were NA's branch is held) the more lag you will get.
    Also Lag is not just from nexon's side. It factors in: Your computer, your connection, Nexon;s connection and more.
    And no, slowing down Magic is a completely terrible idea.
  • Paradox_EdgeParadox_Edge
    Mabinogi Rep: 610
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    edited July 8, 2018
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    They will never bring back the EU servers because EU broke the rules by going behind nexon;s back by releasing a patch when they were told not to.
    Have you also tried to Disabling Nagle's Algorithm? Also it's known that the farther you are away from the host server (So from L.A were NA's branch is held) the more lag you will get.
    Also Lag is not just from nexon's side. It factors in: Your computer, your connection, Nexon;s connection and more.
    And no, slowing down Magic is a completely terrible idea.

    I literally just said I have tried every single option of reducing lag. Please. Read what I have said.
    And please. If you're going to tell me that something is a terrible idea, could you please tell me WHY it's a terrible idea instead of just saying ''Lol no'' and expect me to believe you?
  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,655
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    edited July 8, 2018
    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    They will never bring back the EU servers because EU broke the rules by going behind nexon;s back by releasing a patch when they were told not to.
    Have you also tried to Disabling Nagle's Algorithm? Also it's known that the farther you are away from the host server (So from L.A were NA's branch is held) the more lag you will get.
    Also Lag is not just from nexon's side. It factors in: Your computer, your connection, Nexon;s connection and more.
    And no, slowing down Magic is a completely terrible idea.

    I literally just said I have tried every single option of reducing lag. Please. Read what I have said.
    And please. If you're going to tell me that something is a terrible idea, could you please tell me WHY it's a terrible idea instead of just saying ''Lol no'' and expect me to believe you?

    I read what you said. If you really have tried everything then in the end it comes down to your end and unfortunately the location your connection is coming to the NA server.
    Why is it a terrible idea? Because reducing 'magic speed' for one person will piss off all other of the mages in the game. All those who worked to get the speed reforges, the enchants, the gear, ranked those skills, paid all that hard earned money. They are not going to reduced the magic speed because one or a few people are lagging. If this was a wide spread issue, maybe but since it's not, it will never be reduced. We haven't even gotten the full magic speed that KR has. They are not going to nerf something that doesn't need to be reduced.
  • YangKoeteYangKoete
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    What happened to the EU server exactly?
  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
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    YangKoete wrote: »
    What happened to the EU server exactly?

    What happened was, EU was told not to bring out g7-15 just yet and to wait until KR gave them permission. EU decided not to listen so they released the patch. KR told them that for breaking their contract, EU will not receive any more updates, patches, maints, bug fixes, or anything. So EU was left to rot and it became a ghost town, and filled with issues. All funding that would have been given to EU was cancelled by KR. Eventually their was no support at all and EU was forced to close down. Had EU listened to KR in the first place, it wouldn't have closed but they broke their contract and was shut down as the result.
  • TheNyanCatTheNyanCat
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    FayeKaiba wrote: »
    They will never bring back the EU servers because EU broke the rules by going behind nexon;s back by releasing a patch when they were told not to.
    Have you also tried to Disabling Nagle's Algorithm? Also it's known that the farther you are away from the host server (So from L.A were NA's branch is held) the more lag you will get.
    Also Lag is not just from nexon's side. It factors in: Your computer, your connection, Nexon;s connection and more.
    And no, slowing down Magic is a completely terrible idea.

    I literally just said I have tried every single option of reducing lag. Please. Read what I have said.
    And please. If you're going to tell me that something is a terrible idea, could you please tell me WHY it's a terrible idea instead of just saying ''Lol no'' and expect me to believe you?

    They were trying to help, better safe than sorry. How often has someone said they've tried everything and skipped over the most simple fix? You just basically railed on them for a less than stellar reason.

    And it's a bad idea because you'd be changing game play for everyone to be more sluggish to accommodate the minority. What you basically want is for everyone else to be as slow as you because you don't get to be as fast as them. Why should players playing in their region be punished over something they had no control of to close the latency gap for players on the other side of the planet? I just don't see why on Earth should they make game play feel sluggish for the majority to make the minority happy, especially when they weren't supposed to be here in the first place. Na only opened their doors to Eu players who still wanted to play because their version shut down, don't be surprised when they focus more on their intended player base.

    All of this is even assuming that your proposed change doesn't completely screw magic over, even if the dps of magic doesn't change the lack of speed with make a lot of people unhappy and give people more reasons to just go with the warrior meta. Not to mention just how many Eu players would want this? This is an idea basically all of Na would be against and I doubt most Eu players would even want this change.
    Bronzebreak
  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,730
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    Quick question, how well does your rig run Mabi? What FPS do you get (you can test this quickly by just launching on Steam)? Not to say FPS is the be-all end all, but it's a good landmark.

    I only ask since I had similar issues (Canada though; not as bad), and once I upgraded my rig the problem was almost eliminated, depending now mostly on Weather.

    I moved 1200 KMs closer to Cali this past month, and haven't seen any difference in capabilities before and after.
  • SurreptitiouslySurreptitiously
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,560
    Posts: 45
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    edited July 8, 2018
    Ok, seriously. We need to do something about this divide in lag for the game. You shouldn't have to live in the US to be able to play the game to it's full potential. Healing magic is one of the biggest things here. I live in Sweden and I get a decent 170 Ping. Yet I am just unable to cast healing spells at the fastest possible rate (which is around 4). I only get off 1 every 0.7 seconds or so. Why can't Nexon just fix the whole issue by making magic slower, but more potent. Hard cap Healing and other spells to 1 second cooldown but have their effectiveness upped. There's so many options for Nexon to completely negate all Delay and Lag in the game yet they try none of them. I think that needs to change. Because gosh darnit bring back EU servers or fix your damn lag issue, nexon. >:V

    I hope you know that if they make magic slower, but more potent, you'll be casting even slower. Thereby pretty much worsening things anyways for everybody, and yourself. Balancing magic without gimping it entirely is one of the two primary issues with the skillset right now, and the other is the fact that around half of the skills end up virtually pointless when you start to approach endgame. None really give combat/ranged any run for their money except for Firebolt and Lightning Rod. Slowing down magic further without understanding repercussions behind it (because vivace can get extremely fast, along with casting speed reforge), will make it so that you have a very fine line between making magic insanely powerful (because the cast time is reduced to a fraction and if the average damage is higher than previously), or gimping it (inputting far too many restrictions so that you turn into a literal sitting duck because of how slow and long you have to wait) to the point of worthlessness.

    Additionally, the issues with lag are numerous, but for magic in general its highly based upon distance to the servers. This is because the game is originally balanced around being in South Korea (Where the net infrastructure and server ping are insanely optimal due to how small the country is in comparison to the US), and balancing it around the US, and even with EU/AU in mind as well, isn't going to be remotely feasible without some sort of miracle.

    If you've tried nagle, MTU tweaking, port forwarding, etc and you still aren't finding any improvement, I don't know what to tell you. Assuming you aren't running a tin can and have better than a paperweight modem. But at least don't be a jackwagon. When you put forth what seems to be a complaint rather than feedback/suggestion, then feel attacked and insult instead of keeping a cool head, you don't help your cause.

    TheNyanCatBronzebreakYokkaichi
  • SiodhanSiodhan
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    Posts: 315
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    I do think the lag issues should be addressed. We don't actually have such a small amount of europeans at this point. But, buddy, give up. I tried suggesting to fix urgent shot's quick training requirement as soon as the skill came out. I could have maxed it out 3000 times over by this point and afaik they still haven't fixed it, probably because it's possible (albeit much much slower) to rank the skill without it. Hell, I am not even sure if it wasn't on the old forums that I posted the suggestion at this point. That's how long ago it has been.
  • Paradox_EdgeParadox_Edge
    Mabinogi Rep: 610
    Posts: 17
    Member
    Here's a good example of why it should be reduced in speed. Imagine playing CoD (Bear with me) and you're running, say, a semi-automatic pistol. Now you live in a country that is overseas from the server you're playing on and you're getting some lag, yeah? Maybe, half a second or so. So, you see a guy and you pull the trigger as fast as possible to kill him, as quickly as possible, obviously. But, wait a second, your opponent is using the same pistol, and is firing it at almost twice the speed! What's up with that!? So you try again and again, and get demolished, again and again. You later find out that it's because your internet isn't pinging at 0.1 Ms for the server and that you are being disadvantaged just because of something you can't really control. So how do you fix this issue?

    I'll tell you how. You've got 2 options to balance gameplay to be fair and balanced for everybody, no matter how much your ping is (Excluding movement lag since that can never be truly fixed). Option 1. You make the guns in question not wait for the server to respond to use them, but have multiple bullets cued up to be fired depending on how many times you fired it on your screen (So, fire 4 bullets, 0.5 seconds later, 4 bullets gets fired at the same speed you fired the gun) Option 2. You slow all weapons in the game to a speed at which the server can process all shots properly without slowing your shooting down if you are lagging.

    It's that simple. What is the issue in wanting the game to be as fun to play from the US as it is from the EU? I don't exactly have any other option now do I? Other then stop playing the game, which would be bad for business for Nexon.
  • TheNyanCatTheNyanCat
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    There is nothing wrong with wanting to have the same experience as everyone else, that's ok. But what you want is for everyone else to have the same cruddy experience as you do.

    All your suggestion does is bork down the appeal of a already non meta talent and does absolutely nothing but mess with game balance, and this is assuming the damage compensation even keeps up with the dps before the change. If it doesn't then you just straight up demolished magic by making it slower and weaker. You keep saying that your solution is such a easy fix but you don't take into account game balance what so ever.

    Also unless you're a whale who's bills easily top several grand Nexon won't notice your inactivity. I'm not saying you leaving will have no impact at all, it's just a little ambitious to think a single person will make much of a difference in terms of income. Unless of course said person is one of the top 10 whales.
    BronzebreakAlshian
  • Paradox_EdgeParadox_Edge
    Mabinogi Rep: 610
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    TheNyanCat wrote: »
    There is nothing wrong with wanting to have the same experience as everyone else, that's ok. But what you want is for everyone else to have the same cruddy experience as you do.

    All your suggestion does is bork down the appeal of a already non meta talent and does absolutely nothing but mess with game balance, and this is assuming the damage compensation even keeps up with the dps before the change. If it doesn't then you just straight up demolished magic by making it slower and weaker. You keep saying that your solution is such a easy fix but you don't take into account game balance what so ever.

    Also unless you're a whale who's bills easily top several grand Nexon won't notice your inactivity. I'm not saying you leaving will have no impact at all, it's just a little ambitious to think a single person will make much of a difference in terms of income. Unless of course said person is one of the top 10 whales.

    "Same cruddy experience"
    I'm a vocal minority in a vast majority of EU players all experiencing the exact same problem. Come here for a sec and see if you can play the game knowing you'll never be as effective as other players due to a stupid reason out of your control.
  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
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    TheNyanCat wrote: »
    There is nothing wrong with wanting to have the same experience as everyone else, that's ok. But what you want is for everyone else to have the same cruddy experience as you do.

    All your suggestion does is bork down the appeal of a already non meta talent and does absolutely nothing but mess with game balance, and this is assuming the damage compensation even keeps up with the dps before the change. If it doesn't then you just straight up demolished magic by making it slower and weaker. You keep saying that your solution is such a easy fix but you don't take into account game balance what so ever.

    Also unless you're a whale who's bills easily top several grand Nexon won't notice your inactivity. I'm not saying you leaving will have no impact at all, it's just a little ambitious to think a single person will make much of a difference in terms of income. Unless of course said person is one of the top 10 whales.

    "Same cruddy experience"
    I'm a vocal minority in a vast majority of EU players all experiencing the exact same problem. Come here for a sec and see if you can play the game knowing you'll never be as effective as other players due to a stupid reason out of your control.

    Your Idea still doesn't benefit those who don't want Magic slowed down. It is not an easy fix also. Nexon would need to take into account every single person's location and internet provider and speed. They are not going to nerf a talent when a majority of the player base would infact request it to be changed back, and the out cry would be great to the point they would revert it back.
    It's not a stupid reason at all because it's perfectly logical. It's like the same for internet connection. If you are playing on Wireless and you are far away from the router, then the connection will be slower vs if you are in the same room then your connection would be faster.
    You need to think of a way that makes it so Magic is not slowed down at all for people who are not effected. Alot of people who main Mage would not be happy at all if suddenly they are slower.
    TheNyanCatVeylaineAlshian
  • TheNyanCatTheNyanCat
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,445
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    "Same cruddy experience"
    I'm a vocal minority in a vast majority of EU players all experiencing the exact same problem. Come here for a sec and see if you can play the game knowing you'll never be as effective as other players due to a stupid reason out of your control.

    You're saying that like I don't want Eu players to have a good time playing at all, in an ideal world everyone would have the same game and the difference between players would be their dedication to the game. However, the point I'm trying to drive across is that you should not be surprised when a region does not cater foreign players they never expected better than their intended player base. Not to mention your "fix" does nothing else but mess with game balance and will not fix latency issues. All it does is nerf magic speed for the sake of bringing everyone else down to your level. I don't see why the majority of Na has to sacrifice something for a minority of Eu players, especially since I doubt most Eu players would even support this change.

    I hope you know that if they make magic slower, but more potent, you'll be casting even slower. Thereby pretty much worsening things anyways for everybody, and yourself. Balancing magic without gimping it entirely is one of the two primary issues with the skillset right now, and the other is the fact that around half of the skills end up virtually pointless when you start to approach endgame. None really give combat/ranged any run for their money except for Firebolt and Lightning Rod. Slowing down magic further without understanding repercussions behind it (because vivace can get extremely fast, along with casting speed reforge), will make it so that you have a very fine line between making magic insanely powerful (because the cast time is reduced to a fraction and if the average damage is higher than previously), or gimping it (inputting far too many restrictions so that you turn into a literal sitting duck because of how slow and long you have to wait) to the point of worthlessness.

    Additionally, the issues with lag are numerous, but for magic in general its highly based upon distance to the servers. This is because the game is originally balanced around being in South Korea (Where the net infrastructure and server ping are insanely optimal due to how small the country is in comparison to the US), and balancing it around the US, and even with EU/AU in mind as well, isn't going to be remotely feasible without some sort of miracle.

    And I get the feeling you just skipped this because you still support your idea even after this post was made providing rebuttal from the game play and server side of the issue.
  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,730
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    edited July 11, 2018
    A solution would require you to find a way that does not negatively impact everyone else.


    You can't just ask for a revamp for the sake of the non-target audience.

    Edit: Well, you can ask but you sure as hell ain't going to get it.
  • SiodhanSiodhan
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    I'm sure there are some formulas you can add that adjust damage or aim speed depending on your latency, potentially, or something of that sort. However, another point is that no matter how often we will call for it, it just will not happen. There will always be a difference between what should be and what will be done when there's no care for balance among classes and entire ingame systems by themselves, let alone regional differences that I don't think they even know exist.
    Jazmyn
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
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    Have you tried logging in from another country?
    Bronzebreak
  • PanPan
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    If you make magic slower, you'd still be even slower than the people who live in the US.
    Bronzebreak
  • SiodhanSiodhan
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    edited July 14, 2018
    It is definitely a suboptimal solution, but that line of thinking is not wrong. If skills were inherently slower, lag would matter a lot less because the absolute delay IN RELATION to the time spent loading&using skills would get smaller. Final sh(i/o)t is a great example of this. Meanwhile if you let people load and fire skills instantly, maybe even without a cooldown, 1-2 seconds of delay on skill loading time and firing time matter a hundred times more. It is a very simple issue the developers outright ignore the existence of.

    I'm not saying that is the way to go..but it is definitely a way to make things a lot fairer. This didn't use to be that much of an issue when the combat system was still a lot slower and included a lot of delays because of skills like smash granting invincibility frames constantly. Nowadays there are only a handful of skills worth using that mostly don't cause such negative effects, or content that really punishes you for lagging even the slightest bit such as the magnum shot dan test.