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  • This picture puzzle :/

    Donk3y wrote: »
    lol this is getting ridiculous, feels like that whole "surprise mechanics" thing xD

    Of course, it gets to that when people don't have any interest in actually thinking for a change and they rely on others to back them up or prove their invalid point through more invalid reasoning (if you can call it reasoning).

    In this case I agree with Donk3y when he stated that people seem to have a very low analytical capacity. I see people complain and complain and bring nothing constructive to the table. People have gotten complacent with everything and are constantly hoping their failures will be re branded as successes or blaming anything else other than them selves because they can't really handle the truth of a failure.
  • This picture puzzle :/

    Sherri wrote: »
    He used the insult 'snowflake'.. I see what we are dealing with here.
    Greta wrote: »
    You sure bro?

    I don't plan on joining this discussion but you should really create a constructive argument based on logic and less on your own personal feelings that seem to be easily offendable
  • This is why the saga had great writing.

    Aigis wrote: »
    (And also why your opinion is dumb! )

    In some ways it could have been done better, lets get that clear, but a majority of people over the years I have seen complain and whine about the saga being le bad have no understanding of the characters in it, nor their place in the story. I'm about to lay it down for you, and why you're wrong if you think it is bad. You can dislike it, but the ending was fitting for a saga you had no business intervening in.

    Point A of criticism: Why are Tarlach and Ruairi so edgy and evil just for the sake of it? Why are they suddenly the token bad guy?

    Refutition: The reason Ruairi and Tarlach are like that are because the story was about them. They lost everything, EVERYTHING, and suffered both isolation and repetitive death of those they cared about. Especially Ruairi, he had no choice. He was SOLD to a dragon to be a martyr for the power of his greedy father. He had no choice, he had no say, he was.. property. The more the milletian got involved the more it spun the gods into their misfortune, from morrighan to cichol, things that had NO business screwing with them kept doing so as if in pure spite that they had not been broken enough.

    Ruairi: He had everything stolen from him, his loved ones suffered just because things outside of his control kept getting in the way. He found his answers in Iria, and he went to see his friend and show him the clues needed to give them the revenge he sought. Of course, after all of his suffering, he would be angry at all of his loss. He was never the bad guy, but he was never allowed to be the hero, either. Ruairi died as he lived, but in the end he obtained the control he had robbed from him his entire life. He suffered for what, for that? For a bond that only existed in symbolism, that was a shadow of what he had before? At least, in the end, even if it stole his humanity, he would do anything to interfere with the gods who wronged him, and to save his last and only friend, even if it was ONLY in the symbolism that existed in his broken heart.

    Tarlach: Tarlach agreed with him, they wanted to break the shackles that bound them, placed by the gods. Tarlach had enough, as did Ruairi. It was time to act, it was time to deny the gods their meddling, their sadistic pleasures. It was time to take back their life, and their world. He even more than Ruairi was desperate for a solution, and once he found his answer it was no doubt that at any cost he would jump at the solution, even if it cost him his life.

    The Milletian: You were never a part of it. The story we saw was in no way or regard about us. We were not the heroes of the saga, we were the villains, and we lost. We absolutely were defeated at every turn, we were sealed, told to shut up, we were denied the power we were used to and it bothered people. We saw it all happen, we saw everything we could touch become rotten with the influence of the divine, and could do nothing to stop it. As in a way, we were their agent, we were to blame. This is echo'd by the haunting memories you see later on, after Ruairi sacrifices himself- the memories of all in the soul stream, the what if- "Am I a monster?". It was not our time to fight, we were to just shut up and watch as the souls and hearts of the two men hurt the most in the entirety of the world were to make their stand as they finished their story, and, it was their right to call the shots- not us.

    People hated that, they felt retconned, there was no such retcon, just a minor inconsistency here or there which were necessary to tell the story they wished to tell. The story was not bad, you were just not paying attention.

    The way these two lived was poetic, it was beautiful and tragic. And it absolutely impacted the milletian. They lost, they couldn't save anything. They had no control, they were defeated before they even started the fight. They could stop nothing, and they could save nobody. That was a story that needed to be told. That was a tale that began before the milletian first saw Erinn, before you nor I even picked up the game.It was a story that started over ten years ago even in our time, it was a story that we were not welcome in. The story of tragedy, of loss, of being robbed of their happiness. It was a saga, a saga of loss, of pain, of seeking answer, of revenge, and of compromise.

    It was their story, bois. Tarlach and Ruairi. It did not matter what our opinion was. They got their ending, they got their closure, to a degree. And they payed the ultimate price. Tarlach, his mind, his wisdom. The mind of a wizard he valued so much, was lost, returned to a child. At least he got a second chance at a normal life even if it was only symbolic. Ruairi- his control, his love, his family, his very humanity, and even his friends. He had nothing, he was never allowed to have anything, so he took it all back in a moment of the ultimate spite in order to, even if for only just a moment, take control of his life so he could end it on his own terms, in spite of everything. In spite of you, interloper.

    And Mari, Nao. She lost her life, she lost her family, she lost her friends, she lost her attachments, she lost her humanity, she lost nearly everything but her heart and soul. Her very life was stripped from her, the life she set out to live and reclaim. Now all she can do is sit from beyond and mourn for the sad fate of those she used to know as she does her duties. All of this was Cichol, and Morrighan's fault. It was their accursed fault, and they had to pay. They had to suffer what it was like to be shut out, to be told you are not a part of this. "We are not your toys, vermin."

    It was stated before in the saga that it was their reasonings. They. Are. Not. Toys. And you had no say, your opinion did not matter, you, an interloper, were in the way and it was their turn, the turn of the true stars of the story we inserted ourselves into, to act. And it was a VERY fitting end for that saga, a saga that again started before you nor I even realized it had begun, before we ever touched mabinogi.

    When a star is branded with iron in its heart, what choice does it have but to explode in a brilliant conclusion to its fiery fate?

    How fitting an end indeed. And for those who disagree, you likely do not understand the complexities of trying to write off of such a complicated and convoluted story- to interpret the minds of those who came before as you are handed the pen in turn.

    While I agree with GTC's big post i also disagree with GTC's big post (shut up, this makes perfect sense)
    I personally enjoyed Saga story and honestly if you ignore the bad dialog parts, dragon involvement and some character hiccups, the writing was brilliant and it takes quite some deep insight to see it.
    First off Aigis, let me correct you on a few points of the story:
    1) Tarlach did not become a child to have a chance at a new life, if you pay attention, the young Tarlach is not the actual Tarlach
    2) At the end of Saga 1, Tarlach with the power of the staff, finally understands what the gods were and the foundation of the world before he dies or at the very least sees some sort of revelation. Ruari doesn't see this so he continues the path.

    Now to correct GTC on a few points:
    1) The story does not have to be all about us (even if it WAS if you pay attention to G19-21 and even G22 in some points), we can play a character as it is viewed from a different perspective and that's not bad at all.
    2) Cichol is NOT dead as stated in G12 at the end AND G21
    3) Because of the end of G12, I have my doubts that Nuadha is still actually sealed too
    4) Morrighan only said she retires as she's tired of governing the mortals but in fact she meats up with Cichol AND Nuadha in Falias. Let's not forget Cichol already met up with Nuadha prior to G16 and we know Nuadha stole the power of the throne of Falias effectively making him something akin to a Mid Tier God, also remember that Morrighan and the Miletnian SEALED Nuadha in the Throne room BUT Cichol entered it and at the end of G16 Morrighan entered it too which (to my understanding) means that the throne room has been opened.
    5) You say that the control of the gods had already stopped by that time but it had not. There are 3 tiers of gods, from the only tier 1 being Aton Cimeni, to the 3rd tier ones being Cichol and the others. The 2nd tier gods still more or less guide the world in whatever direction they want. To a mortal, if a God "guides" the world in the direction of murder and destruction and they have the chance to mess them up then they WILL. All their actions are perfectly justified when confronting the gods.
    6) You say that our 3rd tier gods are ill equipped to handle the "otherworldly" intervention? I beg to differ as you can see how easily Cichol handles Brilluen with whom story wise we as the milletnian struggle. Our Gods are overwhelmingly powerful despite what anyone thinks. The fact that we beat a grieving Neamhain that was barely trying or a knock off awakening of Macha does not make any statement regarding their power. Also at the end of G16 we can see Morrighan meeting up with Cichol AND Nuadha, and Nuadha alone would be a force to be reckoned with let alone all 3 of them.

    Ruari jumped to conclusions but he was grieving, he also lost Tarlach and he wanted to make the gods pay, he wanted to make destiny itself pay and he did. He opened the portal and they came answering his call. Thinking about it, this "portal" is very reminiscent of the soul stream from which WE came although we're not gods, or are we?

    While I agree there were bland characters and pointless points in the story that were not necessary, i can just write those off as elements added for mechanics and contents sake so it's not all bad.

    To be frank, Saga 1 and 2 are very well complemented by the Divine Knights saga and more or less all the key elements of the Saga are touched in G19-21. While yes, seeing G18 on it's own makes it quite a bad generation story wise, the moment G19-21 came, it became brilliant. You say that the motivations are shallow but i'm pretty sure anyone in that position of "oppression" from some sort of deity would lash out in any way they could against it especially if they knew they had a shot of dealing actual damage.
    Now you may say that they were stupid for thinking like this because the otherworldly gods could destroy Erin right? Well I would say that's wrong because we still Have Aton Cimeni and the other mid tier gods. If a new deity came to overthrow them, i'm pretty sure they would act and frankly they DID act. Aton Cimeni gave divine light to the knights and gave them a fighting chance. Aton cimeni basically created Talvish and to some degree ascended him to the point where i'm sure he's on par with the other 3rd tier gods at the very least. Erin has forces to be reckoned with even not including the Miletnian. And assuming Aton Cimeni already knew the outcome of everything because the Book of Revelations already knew, he wouldn't really need to act.

    What makes the G18 story so brilliant are actually the other generations that came after it. It opened the story to something deeper than Mabi had before and that's not something easily achievable. almost every piece of story that came since G19 has been directly caused or is directly related to the events of G18 to some degree and I'm more than certain that G22 arc will prove this as well. I'm pretty sure the theme of this new chapter is the fight against destiny and again as a statement of the brilliance of G18 Destiny in Eirin does not affect the otherworldly beings (Or at least untill the book of revelations part 2 depicts the future of the otherworldly gods) or even if it does, this gives mabi an even larger overall plot point to touch upon as maybe there's a bigger picture than Aton Cimeni himself.

    These are just my 2 cents on this but for me, g18 was the gate for all this potential.

    PS: Let's not forget that G18 introduced the idea of demonic beings possesing other monsters like the litch and others so maybe there's also some other world of demons as well (I mean the Chain of destruction gave us one as well) and let's not forget the portal in Metus which for all intents and purposes can be used as a gate to the demon realm.
  • Tech Duinn missions

    Zeo wrote: »
    Just FYI... I don't know if it's international or not but Nova doesn't count for getting a critical last hit on Balor even though you always get a crit from Nova so guess I'll have to use Way of the Gun next time?

    Yeah i saw that too, did anyone try way of the gun on him to get the crit finish?
  • New Metals

    GTCvActium wrote: »
    That would probably involve re-working the current crafting system. But here's the thing, we're not exactly set in a scientific environment, steel making involved processes and techniques passed on from master to apprentice who do not know what's happening besides that it works. Its implied that the manual contains instructions not only for the shape and design of the weapon, but also the forging process of metal work needed to make a material most suited for that weapon's shape and design. We're also not sure how the anvils are actually operated, we may be feeding wood into it, but we could be more accurately being feeding it with charcoal (charcoal can reach temps needed to melt metals more easily). So specific forging techniques could be using the carbon in the charcoal to infuse into the iron we commonly forge with using techniques and processes described in the manual.

    True but we have masters like Edern for who we can just create a discovery backstory and say that he discovered how this works and shared it with the rest of the world. Or we could just remake the refining skill to take quantities similar to cooking and get the alloys stated above. Plus OP never said anything to force it to a scientific setting, as implied we have Orichalculm and Mythril so imo it would be a nice addition without that big of a story impact.