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Orkane

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  • A better bard talent

    The bard talent is pretty bad. Not in terms of power, in that regard it's extremely strong, but it has two main problems as I see it. Firstly, it's not really possible to play as a bard. You spend 2 seconds playing a song and then there's no real bard gameplay for the next minute or 2. Secondly, some of the skills seem completely out of balance. Lullaby and Battlefield Overture are two main examples. There are other minor issues too like the fact that having a second bard is literally worthless since the worse bard will only ever overwrite the good bards' buffs.

    Here are some changes I'd make to fix these issues and hopefully make it enjoyable to be a bard. Most of the numbers suggested here should be taken with a boulder of salt. They would require playtesting before finalisation, but they should roughly show what the changes are going for.

    1 Flow (new system)
    Flow is a new mechanic that applies when using a microphone or musical instruments. Whenever flow is triggered by a music skill, the duration of any music buff currently applied to the player is reset. For example, if a player uses enduring melody, waits 5 seconds then triggers flow, the effect will end 15 seconds after it started as opposed to 10. Also, when flow is triggered, the user gains a flow charge up to a maximum of 10. The charges expire if flow is not reapplied within 15 seconds.
    Each bard has their own flow; it is not a party-wide system like bachram boost.

    2 Battlefield Overture
    Battlefield Overture now lasts for 5 seconds at all ranks and has 30 second cooldown. The aim of this is to make players actually think about when to use it and when not to.
    Instead of boosting max/min damage on the character sheet, a percentage increase is applied to all damage dealt including magic/alchemy damage. This increase will be smaller than it currently is (around 15% at r1 if no other buffs are applied). Damage received will increase by the same amount.
    Now adds a flow charge.

    3 Enduring Melody
    Enduring Melody now lasts for 10 seconds and has a 30 second cooldown. All effects from enduring melody will be reduced. Enduring melody now adds a flow charge.

    4 Vivace
    Vivace now lasts for 10 seconds and has a 30 second cooldown. The attack speed boost from vivace will be reduced. Now adds a flow charge.

    5 March Song
    March song's speed boost will be reduced. Now adds a flow charge

    6 Harvest Song
    Harvest song's base gathering speed increase will be reduced.

    7 Playing Instrument
    The playing instrument skill effect will be increased significantly (e.g. from 15% to ~45%). Playing instrument's effect will no longer apply when not playing an instrument. This should offset the reduced effects for many of the music skills, but only if an instrument or microphone is in use.

    8 Deceptive Cadence (new skill)
    This skill requires an instrument or microphone to use. It occurs instantly and stuns every enemy in a range of 2000 for 0.1 seconds and cancel any charged skills. This is meant to act as an interruption to many enemies rather than a "real stun". The stun + cancel applies to all enemies, but the same enemy cannot be interrupted again for 20 seconds. This adds a flow charge.

    9 Crescendo (new skill)
    Consumes all of a player's flow and deals damage to all enemies in a conical area in front of the player. Targets take 100 - 1000% damage and are stunned for 0.3 - 3.0 seconds based on the number of flow charges consumed.

    10 Dischord
    Dischord now adds a flow charge.

    11 Lullaby
    Lullaby now adds a flow charge.
    Lullaby now needs to be maintained; once it stops being played, all monsters wake up.
    Lullaby's success rate is increased to 90% but if an enemy fails to sleep, they will never sleep.
    The duration of lullaby can no longer extend beyond 20 seconds under any circumstances. At this point the player stops using the skill at it goes into cooldown.
    Sleep duration now takes target CP into account (the specifics of how this should scale need consideration, but higher CP enemies should wake up faster).
    The cooldown is now increased to 40 seconds.

    12 Musical knowledge
    Musical knowledge no longer activates at random. Instead, it is linked to flow. Using a musical skill with 4-7 flow triggers an excellent performance, and 8-10 triggers an inspiring performance. If the same song is being maintained, it is automatically upgraded to the next tier when flow hits 4 or 7.

    13 All skills
    Once a buff has been applied, the player stops playing the song. I'm not sure why they keep playing right now since anyone who was out of range when a buff starts cannot receive it from any of the subsequent autoplays.
    Any music buff skill and lullaby can now trigger magical music.
    The music buff duration bonus (provided by the music talent, reforges, etc.) will have its effect reduced by 90% however, it will apply to how long a flow can be maintained.
    It is now possible to be affected by multiple music buffs at once, if each buff comes from a different player. When two players give the same buff, the most recently applied buff is taken (i.e. you cannot have two battlefield overtures a once but you could have overture from bard A while bard b gives vivace to the same party).
    Since many skills are now much less spammable and excellent/inspiring performances have changed, most training requirements will change to match.
    Skill specific duration reforges will be adjusted so they're still proportionally about as good as they are now (i.e. a reforge that gives a 20% duration boost now would give a 20% boost if these changes were made).

    The playing instrument changes and the new flow mechanic should both encourage players to be dedicated bards. This should increase the gap between someone who quickly sings overture whenever it runs out and someone who decides they want to primarily be a bard. Having players actively maintain their buffs should give bard mains something to actually do between recasts and the ability to keep an inspiring performance going or eventually lose flow for a large amount of damage acts as the reward for doing this.

    Battlefield overture is made deliberately impossible for one bard to maintain by using flow. This should encourage players to use other buffs and think about when it's time to use overture. Ideally, people would be considering if it's worth using straight away of whether they should use other buffs until they have enough flow for an inspiring performance. Or maybe they try to save it to coincide with some of their party's hardest hitting moves. Beyond that, using it now carries a risk. The point is that using overture should be a decision from a bard figuring out what's best for their party, not the default state when running anything where enemies don't die instantly.

    Lullaby is a mess currently. Enemies are either completely immune or can be put to sleep for upwards of 2 minutes with about a second of work from a player. A skill that is so powerful it has to be balanced by being made unusable seems like a bad idea. The goal here is to require some commitment to keep enemies asleep while limiting it's power against stronger enemies to a point where it doesn't have to be outright blocked.

    Harvest song was deliberately left mostly unchanged since it works fine as is and dance of death was ignored because I'm not even sure why that skill exists.

    All in all, this should make bard a reasonable primary talent, curb some of the damage creep (though not a lot to be honest) and create a few fun new mechanics to play with.
    Promestein
  • Permadeath Server

    Cho wrote: »
    1. Ok so the problem with what you're saying is that there doesn't need to be story specific reasoning for a gimmick server. You're wrong. I've already explained that if you want a normal Mabinogi experience, you play on the other 4 servers. This does not take away from that.

    EDIT: Even then, is rebirthing really your character dying? When you die I would consider it a restart yet rebirthing would still be in that server so rebirthing isn't even affected. The game isn't even 100% lore accurate anymore. Read the Icebolt, Firebolt, and Lightning Bolt manuals. There's so much flavor text that doesn't apply.

    2. Second problem is you think it takes years to progress. You're wrong again. I've already stated that I have a different opinion on what significant progress means so you saying a blanket statement like "It takes years" is absolutely wrong to anyone who disagrees with that.

    3. The third paragraph you mention your feelings about how you think someone would just make the same character again. Mabinogi offers variety, it doesn't force it. If someone wants to be a boring person, they will have a boring time. If you want to do the same thing over and over repeatedly, maybe you'll have less fun in this type of server or situation.

    4. Trying to make up an unlikely scenario where someone spends years playing on a permadeath server, knowing the consequences, and has no fun doing so is a huge waste of my time and yours. This is an idea that adds to Mabi. You not wanting an addition is just denying something that could be fun for someone else to keep things the same for no reason.

    5. You mention the lag video. If that still happens, that's terrible, I'm sorry for those affected but it doesn't happen to me often if not at all in the east coast far away from the servers on average internet speeds and I want to believe I'm not the only one.

    6. Rebalancing is irrelevant. You shouldn't be thinking of Phantasm when you start out a lv1 on a new server with no items. Not being able to do 10% of content that might be the hardest content in the game doesn't invalidate the other 90% of content that is accessible. As people progress in the server, who knows what could be accomplished. I'm not going to pretend I've ran Phantasm or the have done every bit of content in the game but that doesn't invalidate the suggestion for this kind of server.

    7. Also I honestly don't care about gachas or potential Nexon's profits. If Nexon looks at my idea and says "cool! we'll do it", I trust there was someone on the team who balanced the pros and cons of implementing it. I'm not Nexon's accountant. You can think of some ideas to monetize it and contribute it to this thread but if it detracts from the heart of my idea I'll disagree with it.

    And the big main point you and everyone that comments seems to forget is that even if they quit the permadeath server, they could just return to the normal server. It's meant to be a temporary stay, not for them to keep their character permanently. I would expect that everyone on that kind of server will die eventually and if they don't then it would be impressive.

    1. But why put this into a game that specifically goes out of its way to make this untrue? That's my question. There are plenty of games in which permadeath makes sense, why ask for it in one where it doesn't?

    2. lolwut?

    3. Consider giving this a read. A lot of the fun of games comes from being given a challenge and doing your best to overcome it. If the challenge is always the same, then there's little reason for the response to change. It's not even an issue specific to games, it's just part of human behaviour; why fix what already worked fine?

    4. In the most literal sense possible this doesn't add at all. It disables a feature that's essential to the game working properly.

    5. Laughs from Europe.

    6. All of this game's non-solo content was made with the assumption that it would be challenged in groups who will help each other through it. Reviving a fallen teammate is a huge part of that, and with that gone, the difficulty of things can increase tremendously which isn't great when you're also trying to ramp up the punishment for failure.

    7. But Nexon cares about its profits. Imagine a for-profit company spending money to lower its own income. Does that sound probable to you?

    Look, if you want to abandon a character upon its first death, you're more than welcome to do that on the currently existing servers. Nobody's telling you not to find that enjoyable, we're explaining to you why a server that enforced those rules would be deserted, unprofitable, and ultimately closed down.
    SebastianBlissfulkillLeineiTwelie
  • Permadeath Server

    Permadeath clashes violently with basically every aspect of mabi; heck we even have quests that REQUIRE YOU TO DIE. With the amount of work it would take to alter mabi enough to make this anymore than a frustrating, senseless waste of time, you really could have just created a new game with permadeath in mind from the start.
    LeineiFaybal
  • starting back up

    1. Alexina still has most players.
    2. There's always something kinda new, but honestly I can't remember exactly when it came out. I think G21 and maybe G20 are new to you. There's some other stuff here and there, giants got a buff; smash and windmill no longer have a 6 year long recovery animation, etc.
    3. I still like it well enough but this depends on why you stopped playing 2 years ago.
    pawcalypse
  • What do people like about spirit weapons?

    Zephyrmaru wrote: »
    -snipped to save space

    To paraphrase, it's a mix between sentimentality and wanting something like Eiry (though maybe not as new player focused)? that makes some sense (assuming I'm understanding correctly) but I still have to ask, why get attached to spirit weapons in particular? With the exception of Zaro, I can't think of anyone doing the same with a non-spirit weapon, so what do you think makes them more endearing than a special upgraded weapon for example?
    pawcalypseZephyrmaru