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Thoughts On G21? (Content And Story)

Comments

  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    edited July 16, 2018
    GTCvActium wrote: »

    Talvish later confesses to you that he was created as a tool, a sword to Aton, and that he never really felt the need to think for himself besides fulfilling the will of Aton.

    Once a tool, always a tool. That is until you decide to stop being one.

    No, I actually loved Talvish and Altam here, but I am getting REAL tired of this "Balance is great'" or "Balance is needed" ideal. It sounds nice because of connotations, but it is akin the the "natural is better" fallacy; one is assuming a trait is inherently good in of itself, and arguing everything the trait encompasses as being better.

    This is naive as it is pervasive belief I want laid to rest, because it is one of those things society often emphasizes as great, but neglects to inform us why, leading to a bunch of people accepting it without much thought, based on the glowing connotations we unfairly associate with this or that.

    I don't think you understand what fallacy is. By the way, " With every reaction, there is an equal and opposite reaction." Because energy. Energy, exists from "Positive" and "negative" atoms, in which the energy results in force ->movement-> life. Thus balance. That is just the way our universe works. If everyone stayed alive, the earth does not expand. Everyone will be dead. You are getting no where with your mind of thinking that points to something like Nirvana. Well that isn't our universe. Also, i'll point out one more thing -population control.

    "society often emphasizes as great, but neglects to inform us why" Or MAYBE, you just haven't been thinking.




    Thoughts on g21? just one: Tryhard.

    The fallacy here is assuming that everything classed under such a definition is great, generally introduced with a lack of explanation for why said classification is great in the first place.

    That being said, I cannot say I understand what I suspiciously believe is drivel. I mean, what is the point of the bold? You just seemingly stated a bunch of nonsense on the notion I am suppose to understand, yet I find little relation, or a point rather than merely contesting my own.

    Was Talvish attempting a mass culling? I was under the notion he was trying to summon an alternate God via sacrifice of the Milletian, either as a surrogate body or an offering.

    Edit: @Kingofrunes Sorry for being a bit combative and insensitive. I read over what I typed a day or two ago, and found it inappropriate and aggressive. My apologies.

    I'm not sure about his actual end goal, but he was using the Millitian to summon the full power of the alternate god to merge its power with Erinn under his control. Originally you need to fully sacrifice a person in order to do this (not just anyone, but someone extremely powerful). The Millitian offers Talvish with a way of summoning the god without actually killing anyone since the Millitian cannot be killed.

    Also my personal interpretation is that Talvish was going to use the merged power of the out world and Erinn to ensure that every person gets equal suffering and happiness because he thinks that's in everyone's best interests and that it's Aton's will. At this point yeah, he's crazy and delusional, but hey, as I stated before, he's been alive for a long time now, his mental health probably isn't in the best of places.

    Edit: Also as a side note, the Knights have doubts about Talvish's belief but he argues back that because he retains his powers, it means Aton will it so. The Knights are conditioned to accept Aton's will over their own beliefs so they reluctantly accept his reasoning, warped as it is. However, Altam, Merlin, and the Millitian reject that reasoning. It's flawed, and you can actually project your own reasoning to why its flawed and why you reject it. So this is a good point in that you disagree with Talvish's reasoning because you can now project that onto your character and that is the reason that you fight back against him. In a way, it's not just the Millitian's ideology, but also the player's ideology against Talvish's.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,300
    Posts: 2,793
    Member
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    GTCvActium wrote: »

    Talvish later confesses to you that he was created as a tool, a sword to Aton, and that he never really felt the need to think for himself besides fulfilling the will of Aton.

    Once a tool, always a tool. That is until you decide to stop being one.

    No, I actually loved Talvish and Altam here, but I am getting REAL tired of this "Balance is great'" or "Balance is needed" ideal. It sounds nice because of connotations, but it is akin the the "natural is better" fallacy; one is assuming a trait is inherently good in of itself, and arguing everything the trait encompasses as being better.

    This is naive as it is pervasive belief I want laid to rest, because it is one of those things society often emphasizes as great, but neglects to inform us why, leading to a bunch of people accepting it without much thought, based on the glowing connotations we unfairly associate with this or that.

    I don't think you understand what fallacy is. By the way, " With every reaction, there is an equal and opposite reaction." Because energy. Energy, exists from "Positive" and "negative" atoms, in which the energy results in force ->movement-> life. Thus balance. That is just the way our universe works. If everyone stayed alive, the earth does not expand. Everyone will be dead. You are getting no where with your mind of thinking that points to something like Nirvana. Well that isn't our universe. Also, i'll point out one more thing -population control.

    "society often emphasizes as great, but neglects to inform us why" Or MAYBE, you just haven't been thinking.




    Thoughts on g21? just one: Tryhard.

    The fallacy here is assuming that everything classed under such a definition is great, generally introduced with a lack of explanation for why said classification is great in the first place.

    That being said, I cannot say I understand what I suspiciously believe is drivel. I mean, what is the point of the bold? You just seemingly stated a bunch of nonsense on the notion I am suppose to understand, yet I find little relation, or a point rather than merely contesting my own.

    Was Talvish attempting a mass culling? I was under the notion he was trying to summon an alternate God via sacrifice of the Milletian, either as a surrogate body or an offering.

    Edit: @Kingofrunes Sorry for being a bit combative and insensitive. I read over what I typed a day or two ago, and found it inappropriate and aggressive. My apologies.

    I'm not sure about his actual end goal, but he was using the Millitian to summon the full power of the alternate god to merge its power with Erinn under his control. Originally you need to fully sacrifice a person in order to do this (not just anyone, but someone extremely powerful). The Millitian offers Talvish with a way of summoning the god without actually killing anyone since the Millitian cannot be killed.

    Also my personal interpretation is that Talvish was going to use the merged power of the out world and Erinn to ensure that every person gets equal suffering and happiness because he thinks that's in everyone's best interests and that it's Aton's will. At this point yeah, he's crazy and delusional, but hey, as I stated before, he's been alive for a long time now, his mental health probably isn't in the best of places.

    Edit: Also as a side note, the Knights have doubts about Talvish's belief but he argues back that because he retains his powers, it means Aton will it so. The Knights are conditioned to accept Aton's will over their own beliefs so they reluctantly accept his reasoning, warped as it is. However, Altam, Merlin, and the Millitian reject that reasoning. It's flawed, and you can actually project your own reasoning to why its flawed and why you reject it. So this is a good point in that you disagree with Talvish's reasoning because you can now project that onto your character and that is the reason that you fight back against him. In a way, it's not just the Millitian's ideology, but also the player's ideology against Talvish's.

    I see. That makes sense. I am not sure if Talvish has actually met Atom Cimeni, but more troubling is the presence of the being the prophets worshipped as Ladeca. I must have snoozed when Cichol was handing out buttkickings, but isn't that a loose end?

    It feels as if Brilluen, Pennar, Marcan, and such were decoy antagonists, and not very thrilling set of ones anyway. No doubt they stood in the way of Talvish's goals as well, but I long forgotten what their actual motivations were.

    Talvish ended up being more interesting and pitiable by a large degree, and his story with Merlin was adorable.
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    edited July 16, 2018
    GTCvActium wrote: »
    GTCvActium wrote: »

    Talvish later confesses to you that he was created as a tool, a sword to Aton, and that he never really felt the need to think for himself besides fulfilling the will of Aton.

    Once a tool, always a tool. That is until you decide to stop being one.

    No, I actually loved Talvish and Altam here, but I am getting REAL tired of this "Balance is great'" or "Balance is needed" ideal. It sounds nice because of connotations, but it is akin the the "natural is better" fallacy; one is assuming a trait is inherently good in of itself, and arguing everything the trait encompasses as being better.

    This is naive as it is pervasive belief I want laid to rest, because it is one of those things society often emphasizes as great, but neglects to inform us why, leading to a bunch of people accepting it without much thought, based on the glowing connotations we unfairly associate with this or that.

    I don't think you understand what fallacy is. By the way, " With every reaction, there is an equal and opposite reaction." Because energy. Energy, exists from "Positive" and "negative" atoms, in which the energy results in force ->movement-> life. Thus balance. That is just the way our universe works. If everyone stayed alive, the earth does not expand. Everyone will be dead. You are getting no where with your mind of thinking that points to something like Nirvana. Well that isn't our universe. Also, i'll point out one more thing -population control.

    "society often emphasizes as great, but neglects to inform us why" Or MAYBE, you just haven't been thinking.




    Thoughts on g21? just one: Tryhard.

    The fallacy here is assuming that everything classed under such a definition is great, generally introduced with a lack of explanation for why said classification is great in the first place.

    That being said, I cannot say I understand what I suspiciously believe is drivel. I mean, what is the point of the bold? You just seemingly stated a bunch of nonsense on the notion I am suppose to understand, yet I find little relation, or a point rather than merely contesting my own.

    Was Talvish attempting a mass culling? I was under the notion he was trying to summon an alternate God via sacrifice of the Milletian, either as a surrogate body or an offering.

    Edit: @Kingofrunes Sorry for being a bit combative and insensitive. I read over what I typed a day or two ago, and found it inappropriate and aggressive. My apologies.

    I'm not sure about his actual end goal, but he was using the Millitian to summon the full power of the alternate god to merge its power with Erinn under his control. Originally you need to fully sacrifice a person in order to do this (not just anyone, but someone extremely powerful). The Millitian offers Talvish with a way of summoning the god without actually killing anyone since the Millitian cannot be killed.

    Also my personal interpretation is that Talvish was going to use the merged power of the out world and Erinn to ensure that every person gets equal suffering and happiness because he thinks that's in everyone's best interests and that it's Aton's will. At this point yeah, he's crazy and delusional, but hey, as I stated before, he's been alive for a long time now, his mental health probably isn't in the best of places.

    Edit: Also as a side note, the Knights have doubts about Talvish's belief but he argues back that because he retains his powers, it means Aton will it so. The Knights are conditioned to accept Aton's will over their own beliefs so they reluctantly accept his reasoning, warped as it is. However, Altam, Merlin, and the Millitian reject that reasoning. It's flawed, and you can actually project your own reasoning to why its flawed and why you reject it. So this is a good point in that you disagree with Talvish's reasoning because you can now project that onto your character and that is the reason that you fight back against him. In a way, it's not just the Millitian's ideology, but also the player's ideology against Talvish's.

    I see. That makes sense. I am not sure if Talvish has actually met Atom Cimeni, but more troubling is the presence of the being the prophets worshipped as Ladeca. I must have snoozed when Cichol was handing out buttkickings, but isn't that a loose end?

    It feels as if Brilluen, Pennar, Marcan, and such were decoy antagonists, and not very thrilling set of ones anyway. No doubt they stood in the way of Talvish's goals as well, but I long forgotten what their actual motivations were.

    Talvish ended up being more interesting and pitiable by a large degree, and his story with Merlin was adorable.

    To answer your question, yes, Talvish has actually met Aton. As the Elder he received his divine light directly from Aton himself and was charged with the protection of Erinn directly from the top god. It seems like the divine light is actually passed down from the first group of the Knights and the Elder(Talvish) is stated to have the strongest divine light because he received it directly. I think this means that the introduction of the Out worldly gods wasn't something that happened naturally or that it was caused by the Prophets, but it was Talvish who did it in order to gain enough power to alter the world.

  • EmerisEmeris
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,120
    Posts: 134
    Member
    Didn't the outside god enter Erinn through that door Tarlach and Ruairi opened at the end of Saga II?
    He was trying to get those other gods to battle Erinn's gods, and Ruairi sacrificed himself to complete Tarlach's ritual, right?
    And that's why Merlin made a reference to a secret group that protects Erinn at the end of it?

    I'd still like to know who these otherworldly deities are, but I think we've got at least one theory on HOW they came here.
    It'll be nice to see if they make a reference to all this in Apocalypse this week.
  • ShadoeLumiereShadoeLumiere
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,005
    Posts: 30
    Member
    edited July 16, 2018
    This whole thing is just a bit much.
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    Emeris wrote: »
    Didn't the outside god enter Erinn through that door Tarlach and Ruairi opened at the end of Saga II?
    He was trying to get those other gods to battle Erinn's gods, and Ruairi sacrificed himself to complete Tarlach's ritual, right?
    And that's why Merlin made a reference to a secret group that protects Erinn at the end of it?

    I'd still like to know who these otherworldly deities are, but I think we've got at least one theory on HOW they came here.
    It'll be nice to see if they make a reference to all this in Apocalypse this week.

    I think the hole just made things worst. All things considered I think there have been breaches before but nothing this big. We've seen from Pihne's backstory that Unholy light is already in the world and corrupting people. I think things are going to stablize for a while because Talvish is going to use his new powers to slow down incoming invasions for a bit. Just in time for a certain Fomor King to revive and give us a sound beating.
  • Uniden0Uniden0
    Mabinogi Rep: 700
    Posts: 10
    Member
    This thread is old, but goodness...I just beat it finally after my long hiatus..Tagar, Talvish...I gotta say that was a challenge but the story man..I wish it never ended and I hope we deal with the knights again in the future. Well done devs! Well done.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,690
    Posts: 7,898
    Member
    edited July 16, 2020
    Please do not bump an old thread and start a new one per forum rules, but congrats on your accomplishment.