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Unpopular Opinion: Cancel the Legendary Item Event

Comments

  • DragoneartusDragoneartus
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,095
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    edited April 13
    Alshian wrote: »
    Sebastian wrote: »
    Yeah but if you get the weapon and destroy it what was the point in going to the event in the first place. At-least you could get some gold out of it if you decide that class isn't working out for you. Why would nexon do an event to give out something that would maybe end up getting destroyed later anyway? Honestly I don't know what the point of this event was. To give out a few items? Why not just call it a giveaway.

    :I I'm still clueless to why this legendary item event even happened tbh

    The people doing this event know what they want. This is late/end game gear, it's not really for funsies. At the very least, the Divine Weapons should be perma-bound. The other stuff that is sorta your typical filler is fine.

    Just what Seb said, if you join this event then you already know what your in for, no excuse for this if you don't at least know what the event is all about.

    Plus it sounds like you did not read the entire post about folks exploiting using alt accounts trying to get a higher chance getting these rare weapons while going through lengths that are crossing the line, going too far.

    Which is why I said being character bound to be fair for all players who joined for the chance instead of being forced to give up because you have players exploiting it ruining it for EVERYONE. With of course being unable to trade unlock it too.

    I've been to several channels and the alt exploiting is actually getting a-lot of overreaction. Multi clienting to take advantage of this sort of thing is still bad, but the big majority of the people at these events were actual people, though at times there are groups of alts I've seen (for the bigger items) it actually isn't as bad as everyone is making it out to be. Multi Clienters still have to switch in-between the games one by one, (Do their main first on the dot, switch to the others) which means as long as you're there on the dot when that item hits the que (like everyone else)you'll be ahead of 98% of the alts, actually most likely all of them. Most of the items were gone in minutes so getting back in que was pointless because you weren't getting another chance. Though I'm afraid if the items do get rarer the alts will have a huge advantage because of this. So while I do think that something has to be done against the alts, I don't think bounding the items is the best idea. A boundless number of situations can happen because of this, such as a player getting it and literally playing never again instead of selling it and letting that item continue on. Or it being destroyed because they literally cannot sell it and don't want it anymore for any reason (like when I said It's not working out for them/not their class/etc). Giving out a legendary item like that would honestly suck ngl.

    That's how I feel about it though.
    CMKyriosWolfsinger
  • TimefallTimefall
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,370
    Posts: 102
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    While it's likely too late to change this event, these would be my suggestions if it were repeated:

    Pick a different theme. It seems many of the issues arise when trying to adhere strongly to the 'sword in the stone' them. Having players all gather in a single location and line up, taking individual turns, which gives an advantage to those at the front of the line. An alternate theme may allow players to continue their normal Mabi activities without visiting a specific location. The item could be awarded to one of the players after everyone has entered, without performing a separate check on each player. The winning player would go collect it afterward. It also alleviates the need for players to spend hours in line waiting, and prevents malicious activity like trying to crash other players.

    Definitely make rewards untradeable. This event's very design seems to revolve around items which should be untradeable. After all, "The item is choosing a player worthy of it". It doesn't make sense for the item to allow itself to be sold to someone unworthy. In addition, the prizes and times are all announced in advance, with a large variety of different prizes and times spanning the entire day. Nobody is expected to wait out the entire day. Players will prioritize items they really want, or can make good use of.
    AlshianCMKyriosSebastianRadiant DawnNilremHabimaruPolicromaSherri
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,755
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    But your getting it from an event and not legitimately so...what is the fuss?

    This would indirectly slander effort that players had done to get these weapons.

    Which is why bound to character with option to destroy. If you don't want it, DON'T attempt to get it simple right? Making it sound overly complex that is too simple to answer. The likes and dislikes should of been obvious to yourself.

    I for one, don't care about these weapons so I don't join. SIMPLE.

    Sorry If I am coming off rude but I can't handle your lack of insight right now....
  • DragoneartusDragoneartus
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,095
    Posts: 57
    Member
    edited April 13
    Alshian wrote: »
    But your getting it from an event and not legitimately so...what is the fuss?

    This would indirectly slander effort that players had done to get these weapons.

    Which is why bound to character with option to destroy. If you don't want it, DON'T attempt to get it simple right? Making it sound overly complex that is too simple to answer. The likes and dislikes should of been obvious to yourself.

    I for one, don't care about these weapons so I don't join. SIMPLE.

    Sorry If I am coming off rude but I can't handle your lack of insight right now....

    In reality that's not how it is. I can assure you that there were many if not most that went in que for every single item, and not because they wanted/needed it. If it was bounded it would probably be worse. I bet you a-lot of people would join in just to get the items and rub it in people's face for salt and not because they needed it. It would be literally the best attraction for the ultimate trolls.
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,755
    Posts: 1,230
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    edited April 13
    Alshian wrote: »
    But your getting it from an event and not legitimately so...what is the fuss?

    This would indirectly slander effort that players had done to get these weapons.

    Which is why bound to character with option to destroy. If you don't want it, DON'T attempt to get it simple right? Making it sound overly complex that is too simple to answer. The likes and dislikes should of been obvious to yourself.

    I for one, don't care about these weapons so I don't join. SIMPLE.

    Sorry If I am coming off rude but I can't handle your lack of insight right now....

    In reality that's not how it is. I can assure you that there were many if not most that went in que for every single item, and not because they wanted/needed it. If it was bounded it would probably be worse. I bet you a-lot of people would join in just to get the items and rub it in people's face for salt and not because they needed it. It would be literally the best attraction for the ultimate trolls.

    But would it be unfair for the players who wanted the items? Then here you are wanting to sell it because You won't be needing them? if you don't need/want Don't join the event once again, ITS SIMPLE! but if you want to be a pain in the butt and do it for salt go right ahead, be known as the most pitiful player in your server, that is fine by me. :x
  • DragoneartusDragoneartus
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,095
    Posts: 57
    Member
    Alshian wrote: »
    Alshian wrote: »
    But your getting it from an event and not legitimately so...what is the fuss?

    This would indirectly slander effort that players had done to get these weapons.

    Which is why bound to character with option to destroy. If you don't want it, DON'T attempt to get it simple right? Making it sound overly complex that is too simple to answer. The likes and dislikes should of been obvious to yourself.

    I for one, don't care about these weapons so I don't join. SIMPLE.

    Sorry If I am coming off rude but I can't handle your lack of insight right now....

    In reality that's not how it is. I can assure you that there were many if not most that went in que for every single item, and not because they wanted/needed it. If it was bounded it would probably be worse. I bet you a-lot of people would join in just to get the items and rub it in people's face for salt and not because they needed it. It would be literally the best attraction for the ultimate trolls.

    But would it be unfair for the players who wanted the items? Then here you are wanting to sell it because You won't be needing them? if you don't need/want Don't join the event once again, ITS SIMPLE! but if you want to be a pain in the butt and do it for salt go right ahead, be known as the most pitiful player in your server, that is fine by me. :x

    I wish it was like that too but It's a public event with people. Who all think differently. You can tell them to not go after it if you don't need it, but no one's going to listen to you, they'll still go for the free ice cream. Who wouldn't after all?
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,755
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    Sad in every event in the real world. But hey which is why Bound to character. If you can't follow the system, then one way to be punished is ruining it for everyone.

    Unfair yes...but if you can't earn the trust, why trust them anymore? This is a free giveaway afterall, its not like your spending hours getting these items, or sacrificing everything for it, because if your sacrificing everything for a simple thing...you need help.

    Unfair this, Unfair that. News flash LIFE is unfair...

    It does not have to be fair, it just needs to function for the greater good. Things change because it force the hand when someone exploit but never been caught. To make sure it never happens again...action must be made which ruins it for everyone because of one person. Its unfair but its the players who did this to themselves.

    Its life, and people will exploit because they can. If you allow them, they win.
  • DragoneartusDragoneartus
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,095
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    Alshian wrote: »
    Sad in every event in the real world. But hey which is why Bound to character. If you can't follow the system, then one way to be punished is ruining it for everyone.

    Unfair yes...but if you can't earn the trust, why trust them anymore? This is a free giveaway afterall, its not like your spending hours getting these items, or sacrificing everything for it, because if your sacrificing everything for a simple thing...you need help.

    Unfair this, Unfair that. News flash LIFE is unfair...

    It does not have to be fair, it just needs to function for the greater good. Things change because it force the hand when someone exploit but never been caught. To make sure it never happens again...action must be made which ruins it for everyone because of one person. Its unfair but its the players who did this to themselves.

    Its life, and people will exploit because they can. If you allow them, they win.

    Tsch..I know many players that would do exactly what you say. I've known entire guilds that just spread hate and hurt others, I'm not joking when I say that it would be an attraction for the ultimate trolls, it definitely wouldn't be far off from it.

    Now I'm not saying that if the items were bounded, this would be guaranteed to happen. Of course It's still rng, (right?) but still nefarious things can be done if let's say the items are rarer and they're bounded and trollers decide to do a dozen alts, and they get their guild mates in it and etc etc, What happens when a alt gets a divine item that is bounded to him? A-lot of really mad people sending tickets/e-mailing nexon. ngl. <.<

    There's legit people out that that just get off from trolling online. That's not even a joke and there's plenty of them in this game.
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,755
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    Yep, folks get confident when they hide behind the monitor, but that confident flees when met face to face with justice xD

    Or they really just don't care and would enjoy watching the world burn...

    As for me Id enjoy watching humanity fall from grace for their lack of wanting to understand and just do it despite consequences.
  • DragoneartusDragoneartus
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,095
    Posts: 57
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    edited April 13
    Some ideas for a solution to combat alts.

    An idea is for nexon is to allow only older accounts or, have skill requirements for people to enter the giveaway. (For example at-least 1 master/grand master talent) or have at-least G20 completed, something. Most if not all multi clienters will not even bother with this. Will they grind up to a master talent on each account 1 by 1? Maybe someone really crazy, but not 90% of them. It would effectively wipe out most of them. For any actual people with main characters that are committed to their characters can get a master talent ez. I'm sure like everyone in the game by now has at-least 1 (unless fairly new, but can use skill multipliers and get 1 in a day)


    Another idea I could come up with to combat alts is to make it bounded for an amount of time. For example a year and then it can be sellable. This would probably make most people who multi-client not interested, besides the crazy one that will literally wait an entire year to transfer/sell it. But it would probably eliminate most of them but that's just an assumption.

    A 3rd idea is to just have a GM or someone be there to make sure a alt doesn't win it and if an alt does win it, take it away and put it back up on the podium (idk if that's physically possible, but if it is it isn't a bad idea?)

    The first idea is probably the best one of them anyway so ..




  • TimefallTimefall
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,370
    Posts: 102
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    edited April 13
    Some ideas for a solution to combat alts.

    The main problem in dealing with it is there's no way to tell an alt apart from a real player. Even if it's an obvious case, they can say "I'm so-and-so's little brother. I just started this game." and it would be an indistinguishable claim from the many many siblings and spouses that actually do play this game together.

    Rather than trying to identify and isolate alts, a much better solution is to design events and content that doesn't benefit from creating tons of alts. The '1 per account' limit doesn't do anything.

    Events like the double rainbow are great, alts don't benefit. Events which require character skill are great, such as advanced fighting, advanced crafting, turning in non-free items (like materials). Events which require attention and action, without allowing afk or auto-clicking, are great. A player can't perform more complex tasks on a hundred characters at once.

    All of the changes we need shouldn't be taken against existing alts, it should start at the design of the events.
  • SpySpy
    Mabinogi Rep: 405
    Posts: 4
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    CMKyrios wrote: »
    Hey guys. So I don't think cancelling it an option. But, I'm down to collect your thoughts on the event. Overall reception seems fairly negative, and lukewarm at best. Am I understanding the following correctly:
    - Items are obtained too quickly. Solution: Decrease the rate, impose a re-queue cooldown maybe?
    - Alt abuse. Solution: Item bound to character?
    - Lag-inducing players. Solution: Unsure what's plausible from a development perspective here. One idea of splitting players into the channels seemed decent.

    I know that some of you may be thinking: "Just do better events next time!" but we'd still like conducive feedback on how this type of event could be improved. I like some of the things y'all wrote in here.
    The event's core design is incredibly flawed. There are solutions, but they have trade-offs that may sound off putting
    - Items are obtained too quickly. Solution: Decrease the rate, impose a re-queue cooldown maybe?
    Decreasing the rate, or imposing a cool down will only make it more frustrating for players. Instead of spending 5~30 minutes in line trying to win the item, they could spend 1+ hours in line. Waiting 5~30 minutes in anticipation and not getting a chance because the item was already obtained is frustrating. Having 600 people waiting 1h+ per item would dramatically increase player frustration as they're standing in line for even longer and still not getting anything.
    Trivia:
    Supposing that there were 600 people in line waiting 1hr per item this would be 24 days of human life being exhausted!
    - Alt abuse. Solution: Item bound to character?
    If the item can still be trade-unlocked, this would not fix the issue.
    If the item cannot be trade unlocked, this could solve the problem of alts, but would make the divine weapons less desirable by anyone who knows the consequences.
    Currently, divine weapon enchants (e.g. Solitude) are Exclusive Enchant Scrolls (untradable) that can only be used on one specific divine weapon. The drop rates for these enchants are also extremely low. In practice, most players who have divine weapons expect that they will need to do one or more, enchanting services to get their weapons enchanted.
    For Kyrios (who may not be as familiar with the game):
    Enchanting service is when a player give their item to the person who has the enchant, they enchant it, and then trade unlock it and give it back.
    There are some alternatives to the exclusive enchants, Meteoroid and 67th Floor, but good luck finding a 67th floor (limited quantity) or multiple Meteoroid enchants (practically gacha only).

    As for what can be done in the future: Beats me. Your stuck between a rock and a hard place.
    Raffle/sweepstakes events will always bring animosity as long as alts can participate.

    Enforcing any minimum requirement, e.g. total level requirement, story requirement, etc could also block real players from participating, so that won't work. Plus people with motivation are going to meet the requirement on their alts.

    Enforcing a no-alt (not the same as the no multi-clienting policy) would not be ideal. As this would have a negative impact to the game as well. As people will lose the ability to progress faster bringing alt characters, and the market will lose a lot of crafting material. The current state of end game at the moment basically requires alts in order to get anything done in a reasonable amount of time. It also wouldn't be very practical for various reasons.

    Additionally, with the drop rate of certain event items, and the infrequency/exclusivity of such events. Alts are very common in any event with rare/exclusive items, where a single account will probably never get the item, since reward boxes are usually given out in limited amounts (impossible to grind for boxes). (I don't think as many players complain when having more alts brings cheaper exclusive event items, since more of those items are available)
    CMKyrios
  • SebastianSebastian
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    An idea is for nexon is to allow only older accounts or, have skill requirements for people to enter the giveaway. (For example at-least 1 master/grand master talent) or have at-least G20 completed, something. Most if not all multi clienters will not even bother with this. Will they grind up to a master talent on each account 1 by 1? Maybe someone really crazy, but not 90% of them. It would effectively wipe out most of them. For any actual people with main characters that are committed to their characters can get a master talent ez. I'm sure like everyone in the game by now has at-least 1 (unless fairly new, but can use skill multipliers and get 1 in a day)


    You would be surprised by how many would actually follow through, especially since you said yourself people can master talents easily in like a day.
    Policroma
  • DragoneartusDragoneartus
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,095
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    edited April 13
    Sebastian wrote: »

    An idea is for nexon is to allow only older accounts or, have skill requirements for people to enter the giveaway. (For example at-least 1 master/grand master talent) or have at-least G20 completed, something. Most if not all multi clienters will not even bother with this. Will they grind up to a master talent on each account 1 by 1? Maybe someone really crazy, but not 90% of them. It would effectively wipe out most of them. For any actual people with main characters that are committed to their characters can get a master talent ez. I'm sure like everyone in the game by now has at-least 1 (unless fairly new, but can use skill multipliers and get 1 in a day)


    You would be surprised by how many would actually follow through, especially since you said yourself people can master talents easily in like a day.

    Wouldn't be that easy for alts though. The alts people are talking about are un-leveled, have no AP, no skills, I could go on but the AP block alone would make this very effective anyway considering you have to wait a week to rebirth, etc I don't need to explain it everyone knows the everything about AP, levels and rebirthing.

    If there's someone out there that actually levels their alts and does everything for them, I'd be surprise. And even if there was, most multi clienters don't do anything to their alts.
  • SebastianSebastian
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    edited April 13
    Sebastian wrote: »

    An idea is for nexon is to allow only older accounts or, have skill requirements for people to enter the giveaway. (For example at-least 1 master/grand master talent) or have at-least G20 completed, something. Most if not all multi clienters will not even bother with this. Will they grind up to a master talent on each account 1 by 1? Maybe someone really crazy, but not 90% of them. It would effectively wipe out most of them. For any actual people with main characters that are committed to their characters can get a master talent ez. I'm sure like everyone in the game by now has at-least 1 (unless fairly new, but can use skill multipliers and get 1 in a day)


    You would be surprised by how many would actually follow through, especially since you said yourself people can master talents easily in like a day.

    Wouldn't be that easy for alts though. The alts people are talking about are un-leveled, have no AP, no skills, I could go on but the AP block alone would make this very effective anyway considering you have to wait a week to rebirth, etc I don't need to explain it everyone knows the everything about AP, levels and rebirthing.

    Memoirs. And I believe newer characters have pretty lax rebirth restrictions, especially early on.
  • SpySpy
    Mabinogi Rep: 405
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    Sebastian wrote: »

    An idea is for nexon is to allow only older accounts or, have skill requirements for people to enter the giveaway. (For example at-least 1 master/grand master talent) or have at-least G20 completed, something. Most if not all multi clienters will not even bother with this. Will they grind up to a master talent on each account 1 by 1? Maybe someone really crazy, but not 90% of them. It would effectively wipe out most of them. For any actual people with main characters that are committed to their characters can get a master talent ez. I'm sure like everyone in the game by now has at-least 1 (unless fairly new, but can use skill multipliers and get 1 in a day)


    You would be surprised by how many would actually follow through, especially since you said yourself people can master talents easily in like a day.

    Wouldn't be that easy for alts though. The alts people are talking about are un-leveled, have no AP, no skills, I could go on but the AP block alone would make this very effective anyway considering you have to wait a week to rebirth, etc I don't need to explain it everyone knows the everything about AP, levels and rebirthing.

    There is such a thing called a G23 alt. It is used to particpate in "Awakened Abyssal Lord". They already have plenty of AP, and need some basic skills ranked up fairly high.
  • DragoneartusDragoneartus
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    edited April 13
    Sebastian wrote: »
    Sebastian wrote: »

    An idea is for nexon is to allow only older accounts or, have skill requirements for people to enter the giveaway. (For example at-least 1 master/grand master talent) or have at-least G20 completed, something. Most if not all multi clienters will not even bother with this. Will they grind up to a master talent on each account 1 by 1? Maybe someone really crazy, but not 90% of them. It would effectively wipe out most of them. For any actual people with main characters that are committed to their characters can get a master talent ez. I'm sure like everyone in the game by now has at-least 1 (unless fairly new, but can use skill multipliers and get 1 in a day)


    You would be surprised by how many would actually follow through, especially since you said yourself people can master talents easily in like a day.

    Wouldn't be that easy for alts though. The alts people are talking about are un-leveled, have no AP, no skills, I could go on but the AP block alone would make this very effective anyway considering you have to wait a week to rebirth, etc I don't need to explain it everyone knows the everything about AP, levels and rebirthing.

    Memoirs.

    ahhhh fu- memoirs. Well It's still better than nothing. Doing the memoirs for each of their alts still takes time and effort. I'd bet most multi clienters still wouldn't bother.




  • SebastianSebastian
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    edited April 13

    ahhhh fu- memoirs. Well It's still better than nothing. Doing the memoirs for each of their alts still takes time and effort. I'd bet most multi clienters still wouldn't bother.




    Some of them are pretty passively completed, though.

    That being said, the people who are alting have likely been around for a very long time to begin with.
  • DragoneartusDragoneartus
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,095
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    edited April 13
    Spy wrote: »
    Sebastian wrote: »

    An idea is for nexon is to allow only older accounts or, have skill requirements for people to enter the giveaway. (For example at-least 1 master/grand master talent) or have at-least G20 completed, something. Most if not all multi clienters will not even bother with this. Will they grind up to a master talent on each account 1 by 1? Maybe someone really crazy, but not 90% of them. It would effectively wipe out most of them. For any actual people with main characters that are committed to their characters can get a master talent ez. I'm sure like everyone in the game by now has at-least 1 (unless fairly new, but can use skill multipliers and get 1 in a day)


    You would be surprised by how many would actually follow through, especially since you said yourself people can master talents easily in like a day.

    Wouldn't be that easy for alts though. The alts people are talking about are un-leveled, have no AP, no skills, I could go on but the AP block alone would make this very effective anyway considering you have to wait a week to rebirth, etc I don't need to explain it everyone knows the everything about AP, levels and rebirthing.

    There is such a thing called a G23 alt. It is used to particpate in "Awakened Abyssal Lord". They already have plenty of AP, and need some basic skills ranked up fairly high.

    Yeah but I'm not saying the idea is eliminating every multi clienter. Just a good majority of them which is still better than it being wide open to any multi clienter to take advantage of it.

    And the people alting for as long as they have been, probably still don't do anything for their alts. They're just used for enter events or selling/etc. That's why you see all those egg boi's at every event that gives away stuff lol.
  • SebastianSebastian
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    edited April 13

    And the people alting for as long as they have been, probably still don't do anything for their alts. They're just used for enter events or selling/etc. That's why you see all those egg boi's at every event that gives away stuff lol.

    A lot of your counterarguments rely way too heavily on probability when we've seen these kinds of individuals prove time and time again that they'll do whatever they need to in order to gain advantages in scenarios like these.

    People are persistent, and they've proven to be persistent enough. If they weren't we wouldn't have issues like these. Yes there are alts that have nearly no levels, but there are still a large amount of people who level alts when they're bored of their mains. I know people that have done this. The difference from them is they know abusing it for events is scummy.

    Locking the items permanently to a character is not an issue. I can't imagine anyone would decide, upon receiving some of the STRONGEST gear in the game, that they don't want to spec into that class--especially when it's one of the more viable classes and pretty much a standard. If anything people would switch to wanting to main that class if for some odd reason they were trying at a weapon that isn't even relevant to their current class simply because of how good the weapons are. They're that good.

    Except the guns, guns suck
    NilremPlatinaKokiPolicroma