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Let's talk about commerce (:

Comments

  • EraleaEralea
    Mabinogi Rep: 9,510
    Posts: 754
    Member
    Keiyoma wrote: »
    For whatever reason, you're punished for disconnecting/crashing by having some of your trade goods nicked, which for me means I've been handed an immediate loss of Ducats and the trip is now pointless.

    Unfortunately, this is an anti-bot feature.

    Commerce bots used to log out and cc every time they sensed a bandit spawn nearby. To counter this, the devs made you lose a % of goods every time you log out. It was very effective, obviously, as no one nowadays even remembers how we used to be plagued by hundreds of commerce bots.

    I reckon they could actually remove it now, since commercing isn't even profitable for bots any more. :')
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,725
    Posts: 3,739
    Member
    Eralea wrote: »
    Keiyoma wrote: »
    For whatever reason, you're punished for disconnecting/crashing by having some of your trade goods nicked, which for me means I've been handed an immediate loss of Ducats and the trip is now pointless.

    Unfortunately, this is an anti-bot feature.

    Commerce bots used to log out and cc every time they sensed a bandit spawn nearby. To counter this, the devs made you lose a % of goods every time you log out. It was very effective, obviously, as no one nowadays even remembers how we used to be plagued by hundreds of commerce bots.

    I reckon they could actually remove it now, since commercing isn't even profitable for bots any more. :')

    AH the golden era of commerce. Prices didn't drop, and all you had to do was CC to ditch banditos. Those were the days; everyone was rich. The best was when only those with good computers and knew how to finagle it could actually enter Tara. You'd fill up with bunk beds and could expect a 50k+ ducat profit for every run. Good times, I got my elephant like two days after starting.
  • NemesisNemesis
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,615
    Posts: 72
    Member
    Then don't commerce.

    What is the issue here?

    You don't like it? Don't do it. No one is making you do anything.
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,225
    Posts: 6,875
    Member
    Nemesis wrote: »
    Then don't commerce.

    What is the issue here?

    You don't like it? Don't do it. No one is making you do anything.

    *sniff sniff* I smell something funky here...
  • KomaruKomaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 830
    Posts: 15
    Member
    I commerce only to complete a daily quest. Trading seems so tedious and I can't imagine doing that for hours unless I stop and kill Bandits b/c pewpewpew is more exciting.

    In regards to pet blueprints. LOL I gave up on the idea that I would get it via commerce. I'm better off spamming baltane for a broken guardian blade and just selling it to buy the blueprint(s) and mats for those said blueprints.

    *sigh* I think my commerce partner is getting lonely these last 6-7 years. I should probably commerce again soon...
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,045
    Posts: 7,775
    Member
    Greta wrote: »
    Nemesis wrote: »
    Then don't commerce.

    What is the issue here?

    You don't like it? Don't do it. No one is making you do anything.

    *sniff sniff* I smell something funky here...

    We're gonna commerce to... Funky Town
  • KeiyomaKeiyoma
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,390
    Posts: 49
    Member
    Nemesis wrote: »
    Then don't commerce.

    What is the issue here?

    You don't like it? Don't do it. No one is making you do anything.

    The forums would be a desolate place without the blessing of insightful souls like yourself.
    GretaWolfsinger
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,045
    Posts: 7,775
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    Eralea wrote: »
    Keiyoma wrote: »
    For whatever reason, you're punished for disconnecting/crashing by having some of your trade goods nicked, which for me means I've been handed an immediate loss of Ducats and the trip is now pointless.

    Unfortunately, this is an anti-bot feature.

    Commerce bots used to log out and cc every time they sensed a bandit spawn nearby. To counter this, the devs made you lose a % of goods every time you log out. It was very effective, obviously, as no one nowadays even remembers how we used to be plagued by hundreds of commerce bots.

    I reckon they could actually remove it now, since commercing isn't even profitable for bots any more. :')

    AH the golden era of commerce. Prices didn't drop, and all you had to do was CC to ditch banditos. Those were the days; everyone was rich. The best was when only those with good computers and knew how to finagle it could actually enter Tara. You'd fill up with bunk beds and could expect a 50k+ ducat profit for every run. Good times, I got my elephant like two days after starting.

    My friends and I used to make campfires right over commerce bot routes that would freeze them in place, or intentionally spawn bandits on them.
    Wolfsinger
  • PyrrusPyrrus
    Mabinogi Rep: 575
    Posts: 21
    Member
    edited July 2
    Shouldn't this be in the suggestions?

    It seems like there is a new commerce thread every few months, greivences from not being profitable to being boring. I'm afraid to say that simply adding more places to trade will not cure the boring-ness. Don't get me wrong though, being able to commerce into Iria WOULD be pretty cool.
    To get good at commerce requires investment, gold investment or real money in the form of reforges and consumables. It sounds like being able to change channel in the old days would have made it more bearable for those who couldn't fight off the bandits, I'm glad they cured the bot problem however.

    I'd like to see the consumables become more accessible. But also, are the price changes based on server? it should be based on channel if you cant CC while traveling anymore.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,045
    Posts: 7,775
    Member
    Pyrrus wrote: »
    Shouldn't this be in the suggestions?

    It seems like there is a new commerce thread every few months, greivences from not being profitable to being boring. I'm afraid to say that simply adding more places to trade will not cure the boring-ness. Don't get me wrong though, being able to commerce into Iria WOULD be pretty cool.
    To get good at commerce requires investment, gold investment or real money in the form of reforges and consumables. It sounds like being able to change channel in the old days would have made it more bearable for those who couldn't fight off the bandits, I'm glad they cured the bot problem however.

    I'd like to see the consumables become more accessible. But also, are the price changes based on server? it should be based on channel if you cant CC while traveling anymore.

    There is already a current active thread in Feedback and Suggestions. I believe this thread is for general discussion about commerce.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,940
    Posts: 2,762
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    Eralea wrote: »
    Keiyoma wrote: »
    For whatever reason, you're punished for disconnecting/crashing by having some of your trade goods nicked, which for me means I've been handed an immediate loss of Ducats and the trip is now pointless.

    Unfortunately, this is an anti-bot feature.

    Commerce bots used to log out and cc every time they sensed a bandit spawn nearby. To counter this, the devs made you lose a % of goods every time you log out. It was very effective, obviously, as no one nowadays even remembers how we used to be plagued by hundreds of commerce bots.

    I reckon they could actually remove it now, since commercing isn't even profitable for bots any more. :')

    AH the golden era of commerce. Prices didn't drop, and all you had to do was CC to ditch banditos. Those were the days; everyone was rich. The best was when only those with good computers and knew how to finagle it could actually enter Tara. You'd fill up with bunk beds and could expect a 50k+ ducat profit for every run. Good times, I got my elephant like two days after starting.

    My friends and I used to make campfires right over commerce bot routes that would freeze them in place, or intentionally spawn bandits on them.

    To be fair, bots did change the prices so that everyone benefited. After the patch that rooted out most of the bots, prices feel dramatically. For places like Dunbarton, the profit one gets is too low for the time it takes except for Succubus Swimsuits.

    I hate to say it, but the sell price inflation caused by the bots were actually reasonable, and should be used as a template to where prices should be, of course with minor adjustments.

    If I had to suggest a few basic things...

    +No attack debuff, just make bandits tankier and hit harder.
    +Raise the prices to something reasonable, especially Dunbarton and Belvast.
    +Raise the speed of commerce mounts.
    +Fix spawning issues. Avoiding bandit spawns should be a surefire thing. That, and make it easier for bounty hunters to actually find spawns.
    +Fix limited goods availability. One or two players may be feasible on a server like Alexina, but if more people commerce, we're going to run into issues.
    +Instead of badges, just have bandit kills have a chance to automatically deposit ducats in our inventory.
    Kensamaofmari
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,045
    Posts: 7,775
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    Eralea wrote: »
    Keiyoma wrote: »
    For whatever reason, you're punished for disconnecting/crashing by having some of your trade goods nicked, which for me means I've been handed an immediate loss of Ducats and the trip is now pointless.

    Unfortunately, this is an anti-bot feature.

    Commerce bots used to log out and cc every time they sensed a bandit spawn nearby. To counter this, the devs made you lose a % of goods every time you log out. It was very effective, obviously, as no one nowadays even remembers how we used to be plagued by hundreds of commerce bots.

    I reckon they could actually remove it now, since commercing isn't even profitable for bots any more. :')

    AH the golden era of commerce. Prices didn't drop, and all you had to do was CC to ditch banditos. Those were the days; everyone was rich. The best was when only those with good computers and knew how to finagle it could actually enter Tara. You'd fill up with bunk beds and could expect a 50k+ ducat profit for every run. Good times, I got my elephant like two days after starting.

    My friends and I used to make campfires right over commerce bot routes that would freeze them in place, or intentionally spawn bandits on them.

    To be fair, bots did change the prices so that everyone benefited. After the patch that rooted out most of the bots, prices feel dramatically. For places like Dunbarton, the profit one gets is too low for the time it takes except for Succubus Swimsuits.

    I hate to say it, but the sell price inflation caused by the bots were actually reasonable, and should be used as a template to where prices should be, of course with minor adjustments.

    If I had to suggest a few basic things...

    +No attack debuff, just make bandits tankier and hit harder.
    +Raise the prices to something reasonable, especially Dunbarton and Belvast.
    +Raise the speed of commerce mounts.
    +Fix spawning issues. Avoiding bandit spawns should be a surefire thing. That, and make it easier for bounty hunters to actually find spawns.
    +Fix limited goods availability. One or two players may be feasible on a server like Alexina, but if more people commerce, we're going to run into issues.
    +Instead of badges, just have bandit kills have a chance to automatically deposit ducats in our inventory.

    This is why I keep recommending a supply-demand system where sold goods can actually be consumed by the computer rather than just sit at the destination.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,940
    Posts: 2,762
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    Eralea wrote: »
    Keiyoma wrote: »
    For whatever reason, you're punished for disconnecting/crashing by having some of your trade goods nicked, which for me means I've been handed an immediate loss of Ducats and the trip is now pointless.

    Unfortunately, this is an anti-bot feature.

    Commerce bots used to log out and cc every time they sensed a bandit spawn nearby. To counter this, the devs made you lose a % of goods every time you log out. It was very effective, obviously, as no one nowadays even remembers how we used to be plagued by hundreds of commerce bots.

    I reckon they could actually remove it now, since commercing isn't even profitable for bots any more. :')

    AH the golden era of commerce. Prices didn't drop, and all you had to do was CC to ditch banditos. Those were the days; everyone was rich. The best was when only those with good computers and knew how to finagle it could actually enter Tara. You'd fill up with bunk beds and could expect a 50k+ ducat profit for every run. Good times, I got my elephant like two days after starting.

    My friends and I used to make campfires right over commerce bot routes that would freeze them in place, or intentionally spawn bandits on them.

    To be fair, bots did change the prices so that everyone benefited. After the patch that rooted out most of the bots, prices feel dramatically. For places like Dunbarton, the profit one gets is too low for the time it takes except for Succubus Swimsuits.

    I hate to say it, but the sell price inflation caused by the bots were actually reasonable, and should be used as a template to where prices should be, of course with minor adjustments.

    If I had to suggest a few basic things...

    +No attack debuff, just make bandits tankier and hit harder.
    +Raise the prices to something reasonable, especially Dunbarton and Belvast.
    +Raise the speed of commerce mounts.
    +Fix spawning issues. Avoiding bandit spawns should be a surefire thing. That, and make it easier for bounty hunters to actually find spawns.
    +Fix limited goods availability. One or two players may be feasible on a server like Alexina, but if more people commerce, we're going to run into issues.
    +Instead of badges, just have bandit kills have a chance to automatically deposit ducats in our inventory.

    This is why I keep recommending a supply-demand system where sold goods can actually be consumed by the computer rather than just sit at the destination.

    I am not sure that's a good idea. What if we get a bunch of dirty old men sniffing Succubus Swimsuits in front of the trading post? :/
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,045
    Posts: 7,775
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    Eralea wrote: »
    Keiyoma wrote: »
    For whatever reason, you're punished for disconnecting/crashing by having some of your trade goods nicked, which for me means I've been handed an immediate loss of Ducats and the trip is now pointless.

    Unfortunately, this is an anti-bot feature.

    Commerce bots used to log out and cc every time they sensed a bandit spawn nearby. To counter this, the devs made you lose a % of goods every time you log out. It was very effective, obviously, as no one nowadays even remembers how we used to be plagued by hundreds of commerce bots.

    I reckon they could actually remove it now, since commercing isn't even profitable for bots any more. :')

    AH the golden era of commerce. Prices didn't drop, and all you had to do was CC to ditch banditos. Those were the days; everyone was rich. The best was when only those with good computers and knew how to finagle it could actually enter Tara. You'd fill up with bunk beds and could expect a 50k+ ducat profit for every run. Good times, I got my elephant like two days after starting.

    My friends and I used to make campfires right over commerce bot routes that would freeze them in place, or intentionally spawn bandits on them.

    To be fair, bots did change the prices so that everyone benefited. After the patch that rooted out most of the bots, prices feel dramatically. For places like Dunbarton, the profit one gets is too low for the time it takes except for Succubus Swimsuits.

    I hate to say it, but the sell price inflation caused by the bots were actually reasonable, and should be used as a template to where prices should be, of course with minor adjustments.

    If I had to suggest a few basic things...

    +No attack debuff, just make bandits tankier and hit harder.
    +Raise the prices to something reasonable, especially Dunbarton and Belvast.
    +Raise the speed of commerce mounts.
    +Fix spawning issues. Avoiding bandit spawns should be a surefire thing. That, and make it easier for bounty hunters to actually find spawns.
    +Fix limited goods availability. One or two players may be feasible on a server like Alexina, but if more people commerce, we're going to run into issues.
    +Instead of badges, just have bandit kills have a chance to automatically deposit ducats in our inventory.

    This is why I keep recommending a supply-demand system where sold goods can actually be consumed by the computer rather than just sit at the destination.

    I am not sure that's a good idea. What if we get a bunch of dirty old men sniffing Succubus Swimsuits in front of the trading post? :/

    Of course that won't happen, as the trade post doesn't act as a marketplace.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 61,380
    Posts: 7,920
    Member
    Nemesis wrote: »
    Then don't commerce.

    What is the issue here?

    You don't like it? Don't do it. No one is making you do anything.

    Yeah not everyone wants to pay 10m per blue print. Kthx.
  • WolfsingerWolfsinger
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,080
    Posts: 1,219
    Member
    Crims wrote: »
    Nemesis wrote: »
    Then don't commerce.

    What is the issue here?

    You don't like it? Don't do it. No one is making you do anything.

    Yeah not everyone wants to pay 10m per blue print. Kthx.

    Those prices are definitely something else....only reason I'm putting any effort into commerce at all, boring as it is. You're on Nao, right? Are the prices that bad over there too?
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 61,380
    Posts: 7,920
    Member
    edited July 5
    Wolfsinger wrote: »
    Crims wrote: »
    Nemesis wrote: »
    Then don't commerce.

    What is the issue here?

    You don't like it? Don't do it. No one is making you do anything.

    Yeah not everyone wants to pay 10m per blue print. Kthx.

    Those prices are definitely something else....only reason I'm putting any effort into commerce at all, boring as it is. You're on Nao, right? Are the prices that bad over there too?

    Yep.

    I've been getting my commerce good elsewhere. Within 1-2 hours I have enough to buy a blueprint. I'm not saying where because I don't want the commerce prices for these items to tank. I have expiring pet essential oils, so I'm gonna be a bit selfish and not say where exactly. But it's not like it will be easy, in order to be efficient you have to be really strong.
  • КалашниковКалашников
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,310
    Posts: 274
    Member
    Resetting during maintenance or some kind of cycle would maybe work. Commerce used to be fun and then it tanked permanently. Of course, the best counter to bots is to spend real $$. The items required to profit is ridiculous, it's not friendly to players at all.

    My only option after that was Beach of Scathach and metallurgy.
    Keiyoma wrote: »
    - Reset trade good value on a weekly basis. I.e. Monday rolls around, and now all trade goods are sold at a minimum 20% profit at the nearest trade outpost, reasonably increasing as you travel to further trade posts, with the rate decaying as the week goes on and people sell goods.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 61,380
    Posts: 7,920
    Member
    edited July 5
    Resetting during maintenance or some kind of cycle would maybe work. Commerce used to be fun and then it tanked permanently. Of course, the best counter to bots is to spend real $$. The items required to profit is ridiculous, it's not friendly to players at all.

    My only option after that was Beach of Scathach and metallurgy.
    Keiyoma wrote: »
    - Reset trade good value on a weekly basis. I.e. Monday rolls around, and now all trade goods are sold at a minimum 20% profit at the nearest trade outpost, reasonably increasing as you travel to further trade posts, with the rate decaying as the week goes on and people sell goods.

    We have suggested this in the past. It is possible because during the sever merge EVERYTHING had to be reset. They DO have the ability to reset commerce weekly. Getting them to do it, well as usual that's going to be pulling teeth and nails.

    Couldn't hurt to have a commerce event too. Double ducat rewards.
  • KeiyomaKeiyoma
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,390
    Posts: 49
    Member
    Crims wrote: »
    Resetting during maintenance or some kind of cycle would maybe work. Commerce used to be fun and then it tanked permanently. Of course, the best counter to bots is to spend real $$. The items required to profit is ridiculous, it's not friendly to players at all.

    My only option after that was Beach of Scathach and metallurgy.
    Keiyoma wrote: »
    - Reset trade good value on a weekly basis. I.e. Monday rolls around, and now all trade goods are sold at a minimum 20% profit at the nearest trade outpost, reasonably increasing as you travel to further trade posts, with the rate decaying as the week goes on and people sell goods.

    We have suggested this in the past. It is possible because during the sever merge EVERYTHING had to be reset. They DO have the ability to reset commerce weekly. Getting them to do it, well as usual that's going to be pulling teeth and nails.

    Couldn't hurt to have a commerce event too. Double ducat rewards.

    I like the idea of a double ducat reward day - fit it onto the weekend with our normal weekly bonuses.