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Real Money Trading Enforcement Update

KatherzKatherz
Mabinogi Rep: 20,370
Posts: 1,372
Member, Administrator, Nexon
edited February 19 in News and Announcements
For the last several years, the Mabinogi team has been working on combating the effects of third parties using illicit methods to farm and then sell gold and/or items to players, which severely damages in-game economies and hurts players that earn their currency through legitimate means.

In addition to taking action against these third party sellers, going forward, we will be expanding our enforcement efforts to include players that take advantage of these farmers. Please do not engage in any type of business with gold farmers, which is against our Terms of Use. Players who are found to have received large quantities of illicitly gained gold and/or items from farmers will be subject to sanctions, including removal of the delivered gold, items, and additional action taken against the account.

Thank you,

- The Mabinogi Team
GretaFroglordSherriWolfsingerKensamaofmari

Comments

  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,545
    Posts: 6,919
    Member
    Oof.

    Half of player base will be punished i guess... :trollface:
  • EdethaEdetha
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,305
    Posts: 58
    Member
    So basically, what I got from this:

    If you engage in any sort of commerce whatsoever with another player, you might be sanctioned. You may have been interacting with a RMTer, and didn't notice it.

    Also, hot take:

    RMT helps Mabi's economy more than it hurts it at this point. Mabi's economy has the upper eschelons earning SO MUCH GOLD, that the redistribution of currency to non high end players, helps the game more than the downsides from the farming bots (which mostly use instanced areas, so they don't directly encroach on others farming, like happens in other MMOs)
  • TimefallTimefall
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,485
    Posts: 145
    Member
    As much as I'd like to see Mabi rid of gold farmers, I also worry about what may happen if a gold farmer spends a large amount of gold on one of the items I have for sale in-game. Could the transfer of gold be mistaken for RMT? Will the gold get taken away from me without the item being returned? How will I know who not to sell items to if any of them could secretly be gold farmers?
    EdethaCrimsọnSherriWolfsinger
  • EdethaEdetha
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,305
    Posts: 58
    Member
    Yeah.

    I'm concerned that this will end up like your cashshop credit thing.

    My new friend decided to play Mabi, and bought some stuff from the cash shop immediately with nx credit.

    BOOM, got hit with some sort of sanction and he couldn't even DROP ITEMS for a week.

    Kinda hard to do the tutorial if you can't drop stuff to enter a dungeon.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 62,485
    Posts: 8,202
    Member
    edited February 19
    Timefall wrote: »
    As much as I'd like to see Mabi rid of gold farmers, I also worry about what may happen if a gold farmer spends a large amount of gold on one of the items I have for sale in-game. Could the transfer of gold be mistaken for RMT? Will the gold get taken away from me without the item being returned? How will I know who not to sell items to if any of them could secretly be gold farmers?

    Yeah looks like we're back to that. :|

    I guess I'm going to have to halt all transaction activity with other players now because I could be randomly sanctioned for doing large in-game deals for a piece of equipment or item. I will also halt buying gacha for profit because I won't be able to sell it by chance someone who buys or farms gold might buy it which will implicate me as if I did it on purpose.

    It is now dangerous to breathe in-game again, THANKS. :(
  • KatherzKatherz
    Mabinogi Rep: 20,370
    Posts: 1,372
    Member, Administrator, Nexon
    Hi. I mentioned this on Discord but these sanctions only apply to players who have knowingly accepted gold or items from these farmers. Meaning, they have purposely engaged in RMT.
    GretaSherriWolfsinger
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 19,245
    Posts: 3,934
    Member
    The Auction House is capable of handling sales that had to be face-to-face in the past. It would seem logical for ill begotten booty, or is it ill bebooten gotty, to be fenced through it. One then could, in good faith, unknowingly be party to the very commerce this policy is trying to address and unjustly be facing punishment. The Powers That Be have assured us that this won't be the case. This would presume then that the server and database logs are comprehensive enough to ensure this. @Katherz, are they?
    Kensamaofmari
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 62,485
    Posts: 8,202
    Member
    Katherz wrote: »
    Hi. I mentioned this on Discord but these sanctions only apply to players who have knowingly accepted gold or items from these farmers. Meaning, they have purposely engaged in RMT.

    You know...I don't always check discord.
    SherriKensamaofmari
  • AdenoAdeno
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,325
    Posts: 137
    Member
    The following are just my opinions based on my observations and experiences in the game. I don't claim for them to be facts, they are simply my personal thoughts on the matter.

    Too Long, Didn't Read Version - "Real Money Trading as well as Multi-Clienting hurts Nexon's business because instead of players buying NX items to sell in the game for gold not knowing how much they'd actually earn from them, they'd rather just buy gold or items directly from others, which is pretty much more guaranteed. The extreme rarity of items in the game, especially when only a handful of people can effectively farm them and thus have control of the market, is also a factor that pushes people to just buy gold or items directly from other people."

    It is nice that Nexon and the developers are concerned about the game's economy and how it can ruin the experience for majority of people. I hope that Nexon and the developers will dig deeper and check out the other sources of problems in regards to this. In my personal opinion, I think the problem with the game's economy isn't just solely affected by those gold sellers/farmers, if those websites or people actually deliver what they're selling (according to reviews on google, they're mostly scams that fail to deliver, while the same exact "positive reviews" could be found on multiple gold selling websites on their Mabinogi section which seems very suspicious ). There are multiple contributors that makes a lot of the game's item's ridiculously expensive to the point that it would discourage new players and returning players from even attempting to get those.

    The first are third party mods that allow people to multi-client or open several instances of Mabinogi on a single computer. A simple google search would reveal the top two mods used that allows one to multi-client Mabinogi. If I remember correctly, it's ok to have multiple computers/laptops running Mabinogi at once, but what's not allowed or what's against the rules is having multiple instances of Mabinogi running on a single computer that's been made possible by the use of 3rd party tools/mods, correct? When somebody multi-clients, they can create an entire party to farm dungeons or shadow missions (or anything else) and all of the gold and rewards go to the single person who owns all of these character accounts. Take for example the shadow mission called "Defeat the Shadow Wizard" on elite difficulty. On that difficulty while using one of those potent crystals that increases the gold reward by 360%, a single player can earn something around 160,000 gold. Now imagine if that person is multi-clienting Mabinogi and has a full party of 8, all belonging to him. That's 160,000 x 8 = 1,280,000 gold in just one run. For dungeons that spawn multiple end chests, the same applies, the owner can take all of the rewards and probably get one of the very rare items that can be sold for a lot.

    Being able to multi-client on a single computer to farm missions and dungeons puts one at an extremely good advantage. Instead of earning gold the normal way (or by buying NX shop items to sell in the game), they are 8 times more efficient in earning gold and rare items than a player who plays by the rules. They can make that 1,280,000 gold in 10 minutes in just 1 run, where a non-rule breaker would have to spend more than 80 minutes across multiple runs in order to earn that much money (you only get one of those vip potent crystals a day if you pay for that service, and Shadow Wizard only rewards you 35,200 gold if you don't use potent crystals). Now imagine if each of the characters in the multi-clienter's party have those tradeable potent crystals. Depending on the potent crystal multiplier they're using, they can either earn more (there's a 400% version of the crystals) or close to the same amount. It would be possible for this multi-clienter to earn more than 12,000,000 in one or two hours. There is a huge gap between the gold earning power of a multi-clienter and someone who plays the game within the rules.

    The second problem in my opinion is how extremely rare a lot of the materials used are, in what's currently considered mid to late-game. Although normally in a lot of games, materials used to create whatever's considered the best or near best are understandably rare, they're usually not as bad as Mabinogi's level of rarity for these items. Take for example the Ancient Golden Crystals that are used for making Divine weapons. You need 40 of them to make a Divine Blade. They're so hard to come by that they're understandably very expensive. That's just to make two of the materials used to craft the Divine Blade! Then you have to get a hold of other rare materials as well. Can you imagine what goes through the mind of an average player when they see prices for these materials? "Wow, I can never afford those, I just won't aim for them!" or "There's no way I can afford that, I might as well just buy gold, buy the item with real money from someone on Discord or other social media, or buy NX shop items to sell in the game".

    The third problem is that there are parts in the game where, if you don't have the right set of equipment or reforges/upgrades/enchants on your equipment, then you still won't be able to clear them, even if you're in a party or with majority of your skills already at Rank 1, because you won't be dealing a certain amount of damage that would allow you to proceed in the mission or defeat enemies efficiently. If the average player can't afford to buy the equipment they need to deal higher damage, then they're stuck using mid-level equipment despite them already having the experience and skills of what should be considered already late game. They are prevented from succeeding simply because they don't have access to those equipment. This situation is another one that encourages players to buy gold or items with real money from someone.

    Another interesting effect of people multi-clienting in order to make millions upon millions of gold upon hour, is that NX shop items are of course being sold at prices in the range of what multi-clienters can afford, because that's what makes sense for those who don't (or won't) multi-client. If you don't multi-client to earn gold, and if you're under-equipped and can't handle late game missions to farm items that late game people who multi-client want to pay for, then there's almost no way for you to make any meaningful money. In short, the normal player will be having a hard time buying the NX items being sold in game because they are being marketed towards those who have hundreds of millions or billions of gold. This is another blow to new players or returnees and you can't really blame the NX item sellers because that's the only way they'll be able to afford the extremely high prices in the game.

    Another important negative effect to consider is what happens when NX items drop in price in the game. For example, if you're selling Fine Reforges at 2,000,000 gold each one day and suddenly they dropped in price to just 1,000,000 gold each for whatever reason, it becomes pointless to buy Fine Reforges from the NX shop. Why waste real life dollars if it's not going to really earn you as much in the game anymore? That's $40 for 35 pieces of Fine Reforges. One million gold sounds like a lot, but you have to remember that the prices of crafting materials for a lot of the important items already range in the hundreds of millions or billions even. Selling NX items in the game is definitely a gamble. You never truly know how much you'll make with it because prices constantly change. Your best gold maker for the past few weeks might be a non-seller tomorrow, and you're using real life dollars to buy them. Again, this situation is what encourages people to just buy gold or items from other people with real money. It's the uncertainty of how much your NX items will really earn you on any given day. Some people find this as a reason to just go ahead and multi-client themselves. Why waste real life money when you can just multi-client Mabinogi and earn more gold than what you would have made from buying NX items and selling them in the game?

    One more effect of the absurd costs of items in the game is that it can actually discourage people from buying NX items. If you're not a multi-clienter and if you're not someone who can deal with late game content due to lack of proper equipment, the only way for you to make decent money is to sell NX items in the game. This makes you give real life money value to the gold in the game. Let's say for example, you equate 35 pieces of Fine Reforges ($40) to 70,000,000 gold if you sell them for 2,000,000 each in the game. Just like any other player, you want to own some of the best items, like the Perseus Tormented Knuckles. One of the most important materials in creating it is called the "Kraken Heart". Currently, it is being sold for around 1,200,000,000 gold in the game. Yes, 1.2 billion for one Kraken Heart. Even if you consistently sell Fine Reforges at 2,000,000 gold each, you would need to spend around $685.00 to earn 1,200,000,000 gold. You can try selling other NX items in the game, but that doesn't change the fact that prices for NX items constantly change due to many factors (some people selling the same item get impatient, the sell for half the usual price then suddenly everybody wants to only buy at that low price, sometimes the NX item becomes a reward for one of those log-in events like what happened to Fine and Credne Reforging Tools which caused them to go down in price, there are many other ways NX items gain or lose value in the game).

    Real Money Trading and Multi-Clienting hurts Nexon's business AND players who play by the rules. Instead of people spending their money buying NX items to sell in the game, they just buy gold or equipment directly from gold farmers or other players because there's less risk that way. People generally don't want to deal with risks. Why risk buying $40 worth of Fine Reforges if you can't constantly sell it at a certain price point? Why risk buying NX items when you don't really know how much gold you'll be able to make out of it that can actually be used to buy anything considered good in the game? Why even spend real money on NX items to sell in the game, when you can just multi-client Mabinogi and earn around 10,000,000 gold an hour? We could say dealing with gold farmers or direct gold/item sellers is risky in itself as you never truly know whether or not you're going to get what you paid for, but the fact that Nexon already sees this as a real problem is a testament that they know this has been going on and the gold/item sellers are succeeding and taking away business from Nexon and causing non-rule breakers the continuous problem of overpriced items at the Auction House.

    What are the possible solutions?

    I think this is a very complicated problem with no easy solutions. Still, it's important that whatever the solution may be, it shouldn't hurt people who legitimately earned their money, equipment, and anything else. Not everyone who has the top end equipment used "illegal" means of obtaining them.

    - Make Multi-Clienting on the same computer a non-bannable activity? Allowing everyone to multi-client to their heart's content is not really going to fix the insane costs of items in the game. Maybe it can even make it worse because more people will have more money, and so just like in real life, the people who hold the products for sale will want to get the most out of their items, so they'll just simply increase the price in relation to what the population can afford. If more people can afford to pay 100,000,000 gold like it's nothing, then that 1.2 billion gold Kraken Heart would simply be raised to 10 billion or more. But still, at least in my suspicion based on what I've read from different places such as reddit, discord, various Mabinogi forums on the net, and even here on the official forum itself, there are lots of people who already multi-client on the same computer anyway and continue to do so now. Of course according to the Terms of Service we shouldn't be using third party programs to change how the game is played, but it's happening anyway and it's benefitting the multi-clienters a lot. Are they getting caught? I don't believe so. Players who refuse to break the TOS for whatever reason, are of course at a disadvantage as we cannot make the same amount of gold as they can in the same time frame. Why not just allow people to multi-client since it seems to be quite a common activity anyway? At least if Nexon allows us to multi-client, we can finally also have fun making gold and be on the same playing field as those who have been multi-clienting for a long time without fear of suddenly getting banned if ever our accounts were reviewed. Honestly, I would use multi-client if Nexon allows us to. Lots of people do it, only thing stopping me is the possibility of getting banned. My character has lots of sentimental value to me, so I can't risk it, even if it means I won't be able to progress to the later parts of the game due to me not having more suitable efficient equipment.

    - Make the drop rate for important materials higher? I think this can somewhat help but it needs careful balancing. Make it too common and the item loses value, causing people to just not bother working for them. Retain their current extreme rarity and you instantly discourage people from even attempting to get them. If more of the item exists, then a lot more sellers would lower the price to make purchasing the item more attractive. If prices didn't cost in the billions or hundreds of millions, then the average player would be more inclined to buy NX items to sell in the game because now, whatever crafting materials they need will actually be possible to purchase. That's the important thing, items should be encouraged to be priced in such a way that it doesn't totally lose its high end status (why would anybody bother working hard to get them if they're near worthless?), but not impossible to attain for 90% of the players in the game due to being extremely high priced (why would anybody bother working or spending real dollars on NX items to sell in the game, if whatever gold they earn from that won't even reach a fraction of an item's selling price?). Balance. Rare enough that it still warrants a few million gold and an attractive item for players to do dungeons and missions for, but affordable enough to not instantly kill anybody's desire to work for it or sell NX items to make gold for it.

    Anyway, those are some of my thoughts on the matter of the game's super expensive economy and how it affects people's decisions on whether or not to directly buy gold or items from others.






    Crimsọn6f0909Sherri
  • ViciFlameViciFlame
    Mabinogi Rep: 405
    Posts: 2
    Member
    You know one feature that may help? is to have the auction board give set prices for individual items, and possibly allow the ability to lower items (set item value caps.)

    People also ideally aren't suppose to be making money off the game. Especially since it's free to play, that kills it for regular players. And due to people wanting to make money, there is then the need to raise values of items for profit.

    It is also funny due to the fact that as people earn more gold in the economy, as Adeno said, the prices can go as high as the economy can deal. It is counter productive, all that's changed is the scale of value, and in the end the only difference is that there is now increased time needed to be invested. This is akin to tank mobs with increased hp, same damage and attacks are dealt- it just takes longer to chew through, where instead it would be better to make their attacks more versatile (for example, they could have strong thunder, random evasion, weak counter, strong or weak combos, etc.)

    Also...present population is an issue that has some affect as well.
    Sherri
  • FroglordFroglord
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,765
    Posts: 331
    Member
    edited February 19
    Katherz wrote: »
    For the last several years, the Mabinogi team has been working on combating the effects of third parties using illicit methods to farm and then sell gold and/or items to players, which severely damages in-game economies and hurts players that earn their currency through legitimate means.

    In addition to taking action against these third party sellers, going forward, we will be expanding our enforcement efforts to include players that take advantage of these farmers. Please do not engage in any type of business with gold farmers, which is against our Terms of Use. Players who are found to have received large quantities of illicitly gained gold and/or items from farmers will be subject to sanctions, including removal of the delivered gold, items, and additional action taken against the account.

    Thank you,

    - The Mabinogi Team



    It's funny how right after being posted, a bunch of people come out of the woodwork to oppose it.

    It's just like when you want to get swarmed by angry wasps, you just have to kick the tree the hive is on to piss them off. Honestly, Nexon should start jotting down names here and start looking into things, and keep to their own words. Because honestly, an announcement will only do so much, and the people who conduct said RWT will start propping up out of nowhere to SUDDENLY post on a forum they never post on, or spam on the discord when they have no previous activity in doing so.

    I honestly suggest looking at the alexina/nao facebook pages, which are riddled with 3rd party Real world trade, maybe do something about that for once. The people you want to stop from conducting RWT are all out in the open here, they literally cry for attention, and will always, ALWAYS try to justify what they do by skirting around their words.
    GretaWolfsinger
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 19,245
    Posts: 3,934
    Member
    I seem to remember that the bots advertising gold, in Dunby square, all give the same website and have done so for years. To me this sounds like it's just one guy doing it. Not that I'm condoning it, mind you, but maybe bot farmed mabi-gold, sold for real world money, isn't as extensive a problem as it may seem; is this trying to kill a rat in the kitchen with a sledgehammer?

    The other thing is that, according to those bots, the gold sellers rate has hovered at 1Mgold/1USD, as 10USD for 10M gold, for about 10 years now. This means that the in-game inflation makes the items more and more expensive in real money. How many times has the average price of things inflated in-game over the last decade? Meanwhile, the real world cost of Mabi-gold has been static. This means that in-game inflation should negatively effect the illegal gold market.

    This real world trade for mabi-gold is a problem for Nexon for legal reasons rather than in-game economy reasons. The more expensive stuff gets in-game, the more enticing the web-shop is for the average player; think about that!
    Sherri
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 62,485
    Posts: 8,202
    Member
    edited February 19
    Froglord wrote: »
    Katherz wrote: »
    For the last several years, the Mabinogi team has been working on combating the effects of third parties using illicit methods to farm and then sell gold and/or items to players, which severely damages in-game economies and hurts players that earn their currency through legitimate means.

    In addition to taking action against these third party sellers, going forward, we will be expanding our enforcement efforts to include players that take advantage of these farmers. Please do not engage in any type of business with gold farmers, which is against our Terms of Use. Players who are found to have received large quantities of illicitly gained gold and/or items from farmers will be subject to sanctions, including removal of the delivered gold, items, and additional action taken against the account.

    Thank you,

    - The Mabinogi Team



    It's funny how right after being posted, a bunch of people come out of the woodwork to oppose it.

    It's just like when you want to get swarmed by angry wasps, you just have to kick the tree the hive is on to piss them off. Honestly, Nexon should start jotting down names here and start looking into things, and keep to their own words. Because honestly, an announcement will only do so much, and the people who conduct said RWT will start propping up out of nowhere to SUDDENLY post on a forum they never post on, or spam on the discord when they have no previous activity in doing so.

    I honestly suggest looking at the alexina/nao facebook pages, which are riddled with 3rd party Real world trade, maybe do something about that for once. The people you want to stop from conducting RWT are all out in the open here, they literally cry for attention, and will always, ALWAYS try to justify what they do by skirting around their words.

    I lived through the dark ages of mabinogi where you were banned because of tainted gold or you unknowingly purchased a duped item. They banned innocent and guilty back then. So when I see a post such as this it hones some deep resentment on their indifferent tactics in the past. I was rightly concerned.

    However since Katherz has provided some clarification, I can back down from this issue. I rather not be be worked up over these issues anyway. But you...you can keep your witch hunts to yourself.
    EdethaSherriWolfsingerKensamaofmari
  • FroglordFroglord
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,765
    Posts: 331
    Member
    edited February 20
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Froglord wrote: »
    Katherz wrote: »
    For the last several years, the Mabinogi team has been working on combating the effects of third parties using illicit methods to farm and then sell gold and/or items to players, which severely damages in-game economies and hurts players that earn their currency through legitimate means.

    In addition to taking action against these third party sellers, going forward, we will be expanding our enforcement efforts to include players that take advantage of these farmers. Please do not engage in any type of business with gold farmers, which is against our Terms of Use. Players who are found to have received large quantities of illicitly gained gold and/or items from farmers will be subject to sanctions, including removal of the delivered gold, items, and additional action taken against the account.

    Thank you,

    - The Mabinogi Team



    It's funny how right after being posted, a bunch of people come out of the woodwork to oppose it.

    It's just like when you want to get swarmed by angry wasps, you just have to kick the tree the hive is on to piss them off. Honestly, Nexon should start jotting down names here and start looking into things, and keep to their own words. Because honestly, an announcement will only do so much, and the people who conduct said RWT will start propping up out of nowhere to SUDDENLY post on a forum they never post on, or spam on the discord when they have no previous activity in doing so.

    I honestly suggest looking at the alexina/nao facebook pages, which are riddled with 3rd party Real world trade, maybe do something about that for once. The people you want to stop from conducting RWT are all out in the open here, they literally cry for attention, and will always, ALWAYS try to justify what they do by skirting around their words.

    I lived through the dark ages of mabinogi where you were banned because of tainted gold or you unknowingly purchased a duped item. They banned innocent and guilty back then. So when I see a post such as this it hones some deep resentment on their indifferent tactics in the past. I was rightly concerned.

    However since Katherz has provided some clarification, I can back down from this issue. I rather not be be worked up over these issues anyway. But you...you can keep your witch hunts to yourself.

    I was saying that the 3rd party RMT users who conduct said transactions are by all means out in the open for everyone to see. In fact they make it apparent that they exist by making walls of text trying to defend RMT, saying "It's good for the game". There are also social areas like facebook groups which are riddled with RMT users who sell gold/items hourly, and they obtain said gold through the heavy use of bots. There is no witch hunt, it's expecting Nexon to do their jobs after years of letting people skirt the rules, and beat around the bush about it, then trash talk their way out of a situation by bullying and threatening users who aren't breaking the rules just because their illegal income is put on the line.

    So by all means, sneer at me for expecting a company that runs a game to do its job.
    GretaEdetha6f0909SherriWolfsinger
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 19,245
    Posts: 3,934
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    Helsa wrote: »
    This real world trade for mabi-gold is a problem for Nexon for legal reasons rather than in-game economy reasons. The more expensive stuff gets in-game, the more enticing the web-shop is for the average player; think about that!

    Lemme expand on this more with an example:

    Let's say you want some Serene Nebula Wings from the Milky Way Gachapon. Their chance-to-get according to the Nexon publish rates is 0.13%. Buying in bulk, you can get 45 chances for 57,500 NX. If I remember correctly, 1,000NX = 1 USD. So, 0.13% = 0.0013 inverted, 1/0.0013=769 and change; call it 770. So, that's a 1 in 770 chance to get them. 770/45= 17 and 1/9. The 1/9 corresponds to 5 tries. A box of 11 tries is 15,000 NX. A box of 1 try is 1,500 NX. It's cheaper to go with 5 singles. So, to have statistical certainty you need to use 17x57,500NX+5x1,500NX=985,000NX; that's 985 USD.

    The gold sellers rate has been flat for a decade now at 1Mgold/USD. So, if the Auction House price for them is over 985Mgold then it's cheaper to go through the Web Shop. If it is over 492.5Mgold, it is cheaper to go through the Web Shop for a statistically favourable chance to get them. If wings are already in this price range in the Auction House, I don't think Nexon would really mind, do you?

    If low gachapon rates are ultimately bad for the game in terms of overall profit for Nexon. Raising the rates should improve things. The problem is that the rates of all the items in a gachapon MUST sum to 100% exactly. So, to fix gachapons means lowering the number of different items available in them by, say, increasing the number of different kinds of gachapons per sale to accommodate the number of items being offered. This lowers the threshold where it becomes cheaper to simply shop directly from the Web Shop rather than the Auction House. Think about that!
    EdethaSherri
  • AnimemabiAnimemabi
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,025
    Posts: 94
    Member
    Gacha and rmt was a shite idea to begin with i find it funy nexon chirps about RMT but i still see gold bots not being banned or gotten rid of i feel they made this statement because people were probably submitting tickets about the economy but i dont blame them the economy is destroyed 90-100m this 300m that unless you spend money on the game i feel you will be behind everyone else events are probably the only thing keeping people logged on and active and with any money but this is just my opinion may be subject to change.

    im tired of clothes and gacha i am itching for new talents yeah glyphwriting was...neat but the potential skills and classes we can have will never come due to whoever is currently developing.

    have a great day everyone stay safe wear a mask even if its not for you do it for others thank you!.
    Sherri
  • EdethaEdetha
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,305
    Posts: 58
    Member
    edited February 22
    [removed]
  • 6f09096f0909
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,130
    Posts: 29
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    See, as much as I want to support this, I just can't unless they actually tell us what they plan to do and how exactly they'd go about "taking action against these third party sellers."
    For all I care, this could just be a statement made that will never really get any action, and I think that says a lot about how I feel about the game and its management. I love this game to death, and I would be happy if real fixes to the game are made.

    But, let's all be real here... When you bring up RMT-ing, it opens a whole can of worms for the game's marketplace.
    I'm not smart at all when it comes to things pertaining economy or what-have-you; I can't make an extremely sophisticated post about the state of mabi's economy. But there are people here who can articulate this far better than I ever could.
    Even then, it doesn't take a lot to see how much RMTs have affected our current economy (especially cause it's been a thing for YEARS).

    So, until I'm told how they plan on executing this, and how they'll deal with its effects on the game's economy, I can't view this announcement in any good faith LOL
    CrimsọnSherriKensamaofmari
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 62,485
    Posts: 8,202
    Member
    edited February 20
    Froglord wrote: »
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Froglord wrote: »
    Katherz wrote: »
    For the last several years, the Mabinogi team has been working on combating the effects of third parties using illicit methods to farm and then sell gold and/or items to players, which severely damages in-game economies and hurts players that earn their currency through legitimate means.

    In addition to taking action against these third party sellers, going forward, we will be expanding our enforcement efforts to include players that take advantage of these farmers. Please do not engage in any type of business with gold farmers, which is against our Terms of Use. Players who are found to have received large quantities of illicitly gained gold and/or items from farmers will be subject to sanctions, including removal of the delivered gold, items, and additional action taken against the account.

    Thank you,

    - The Mabinogi Team



    It's funny how right after being posted, a bunch of people come out of the woodwork to oppose it.

    It's just like when you want to get swarmed by angry wasps, you just have to kick the tree the hive is on to piss them off. Honestly, Nexon should start jotting down names here and start looking into things, and keep to their own words. Because honestly, an announcement will only do so much, and the people who conduct said RWT will start propping up out of nowhere to SUDDENLY post on a forum they never post on, or spam on the discord when they have no previous activity in doing so.

    I honestly suggest looking at the alexina/nao facebook pages, which are riddled with 3rd party Real world trade, maybe do something about that for once. The people you want to stop from conducting RWT are all out in the open here, they literally cry for attention, and will always, ALWAYS try to justify what they do by skirting around their words.

    I lived through the dark ages of mabinogi where you were banned because of tainted gold or you unknowingly purchased a duped item. They banned innocent and guilty back then. So when I see a post such as this it hones some deep resentment on their indifferent tactics in the past. I was rightly concerned.

    However since Katherz has provided some clarification, I can back down from this issue. I rather not be be worked up over these issues anyway. But you...you can keep your witch hunts to yourself.

    I was saying that the 3rd party RMT users who conduct said transactions are by all means out in the open for everyone to see. In fact they make it apparent that they exist by making walls of text trying to defend RMT, saying "It's good for the game". There are also social areas like facebook groups which are riddled with RMT users who sell gold/items hourly, and they obtain said gold through the heavy use of bots. There is no witch hunt, it's expecting Nexon to do their jobs after years of letting people skirt the rules, and beat around the bush about it, then trash talk their way out of a situation by bullying and threatening users who aren't breaking the rules just because their illegal income is put on the line.

    So by all means, sneer at me for expecting a company that runs a game to do its job.

    You weren't very specific before as to who you were referring to in this thread, thank you for clarifying.

    @Katherz How does this impact the art community?
    Sherri
  • SurreptitiouslySurreptitiously
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,560
    Posts: 45
    Member
    edited February 22
    Edetha wrote: »
    Katherz wrote: »
    Hi. I mentioned this on Discord but these sanctions only apply to players who have knowingly accepted gold or items from these farmers. Meaning, they have purposely engaged in RMT.

    [removed]

    So you're blatantly pointing out that you're guessing that someone is making choices because they have to or they'd lose their job yet you're being that vitriolic nonetheless? Do that at your own job and come back with the results, I'm sure they'll be surprising.

    Also, "quality" and "devcat" do not belong in the same sentence. This game's code, its functions, the decisions design-wise, things across the board make my head ache. Nevermind I can say a lot about nexon itself, both sides of NA and KR, but I will refrain from that for obvious reasons. That said, this game has miraculously made its own niche and its amazing it still has yet to be truly given any sort of competition in its own design.

    Also, Swearing in spanish doesn't make you cool nor right. And it counts as filter dodging.