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I have an honest question

mintielmintiel
Mabinogi Rep: 2,260
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in General Chat
So, I can't be the only one in this community who notices this, and this isn't the only community where this happens (I've seen it in Vindictus and Maplestory for starters with Nexon games alone, but it of course exists in other places as well), but...

Basically, why are many of the players of the game incredibly mocking to those who are considered "lore" or "storyline" fans in MMOs? (I separated them because some categorize the lore of a story different from the story itself, and some see them as one thing)

Like, this isn't the first time I've seen a spat between people who feel that something is "nothing to be upset about" and people explain why it's upsetting for them only for someone to say "WELL ITS NOT ACTUALLY UPSETTING YOU'RE JUST BEING A CHILD" especially when it's about things related to the NPCs in a game. I've seen it plenty times, and to be honest, it's kind of saddening. Does it bother people that others may find things related to the NPCs of a game important? Does it bother people that others particularly enjoy other activities in the game? What I can't really understand is why this topic always turns into some sort of spat because someone has to feel the need to mock people for this.

So yeah, why does it happen? What causes people to feel this way towards people liking NPCs?

Comments

  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
    Mabinogi Rep: 8,440
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    edited March 28, 2017
    It's mostly because any and all drastic lore changing updates (mostly all racial marriage) would cause my lore war thread to fill up to 100 pages if people actually posted their rants in it instead of making normal threads go off topic with it. The greater portion of those comments would either be salt over how lore is being ignored or tossed aside, or salt that #WeCan'tHaveNiceThings because of the lore enthusiasts. Personally, I think players as part of a separate existence from the NPCs could attain all racial marriage without harming the pre-established lore. Although the second problem is that lore changes over time, and lore enthusiasts don't necessarily enjoy that factor and prefer the game to not evolve and remain stagnant.
    mintiel
  • FroglordFroglord
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,765
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    edited March 28, 2017
    Mabinogi's lore is a game of telephone.

    It went from the G1 to G3 starting off fine, g4 ~ g8 was off topic a bit because of Iria, g9 to g12 was for the most part pretty good, but that's when FMA was cool at the time. Then came the maplestory director that ruined most of everything in shakespeare ~ Iria saga, and things were never the same. Everything afterwards was sort of just damage control because of the shakespeare and Iria arcs, and included content just messed up so many things.

  • mintielmintiel
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,260
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    Froglord wrote: »
    Mabinogi's lore is a game of telephone.

    It went from the G1 to G3 starting off fine, g4 ~ g8 was off topic a bit because of Iria, g9 to g12 was for the most part pretty good, but that's when FMA was cool at the time. Then came the maplestory director that ruined most of everything in shakespeare ~ Iria saga, and things were never the same. Everything afterwards was sort of just damage control because of the shakespeare and Iria arcs, and included content just messed up so many things.

    Ah yes... him...

    Mr "lets put in an arbitrary class because I hate a character in Maplestory so much that I need another character to be more popular"
    "Oh Im out time to go mess up Mabinogi I think I'll pick the 2 remaining Lost Warriors as sacrifices for 'THE PLOT'"

    Genius.
  • LiyetaLiyeta
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,060
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    Hmm pretty much because of inconsistencies.

    Nexon dev tend to take story line as a joke so the player base just follow whats in store for them.

    On the other side

    Lord of the ring online and elder scroll online take story line very seriously and so is their player base.
    mintiel
  • HazurahHazurah
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,360
    Posts: 443
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    Liyeta wrote: »
    Hmm pretty much because of inconsistencies.

    Nexon dev tend to take story line as a joke so the player base just follow whats in store for them.

    On the other side

    Lord of the ring online and elder scroll online take story line very seriously and so is their player base.

    ah Elder Scroll, they even proceed with making their own Language in the lore


    we do have Fomor language but only relevant in G1 - G3
    mintiel
  • DaktaroDaktaro
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,215
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    i agree it's sad because the lore and specially the NPCs are just more reasons for players to love mabinogi. you'd think players could just appreciate and respect a mutual love for the same game regardless of who loves which parts the most. it doesn't matter if the lore is nonsensical or not. besides, there are many other areas of the game that are also nonsensical. even aspects oF THE COMBAT +_+

    some people are just insensitive, close-minded and self-centered :c
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,545
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    Most players don't care about lore or story anymore, they want cute characters and outfits, that's all.... At least that's what i see in Mabinogi now. "ALTAM IS SO CUTE OMMMGGGG JUST LOOK AT HIM!", "Elsie is MY BAE", etc. Only because they are cute? Psh... Where are people who like characters because of their story or anything not related about their looks? I don't even know anymore if i like any NPC in Mabinogi because of that...
  • XiokunXiokun
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,080
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    Greta wrote: »
    Most players don't care about lore or story anymore, they want cute characters and outfits, that's all.... At least that's what i see in Mabinogi now. "ALTAM IS SO CUTE OMMMGGGG JUST LOOK AT HIM!", "Elsie is MY BAE", etc. Only because they are cute? Psh... Where are people who like characters because of their story or anything not related about their looks? I don't even know anymore if i like any NPC in Mabinogi because of that...

    I haven't been in the story since day one but I've been taking the time to pay attention to the story now when I get a chance. I don't know his story that well, but I really like Taunes and it makes me happy to see him and Atrata together on the log in screen with her on his shoulder. <3

    Though I do have a character I can't stand based off the story, and that's Pihne...
    ... I won't even mention why. I'll go on a big long rant why if I do. ._.

    mintiel
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,050
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    Liking NPCs is hardly for lore reasons. They are cute waifus for most. Some people take it too far, or for the wrong reasons. How many known of Rua's situation with her brother, or care that Nao is a reincarnated soul who cannot forget her previous life?

    In any case, this is a bad series of stories with unexplained consistencies between them. Inference is hackneyed excused for poor story writing to leave things unexplained. Some things should be explained, or compounded on.
    GretaZeoVimi
  • RingabelRingabel
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,030
    Posts: 126
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    edited March 29, 2017
    There's a simple answer to this: Nobody is allowed to have fun.

    And due to the wondrous, amazing joy of the internet, some find pleasure in trashing other people's fun - berating others for finding enjoyment in things they themselves are unable to find joy in.

    If people enjoy the lore in a game, regardless of its flaws: Let them.
    If people like the NPCs in a game, regardless if it's because of their character or because they find them cute or whatever: Let them.

    This goes for anything, really.

    Just let people have fun without ruining it for them, thanks. Just because someone finds enjoyment in things you personally don't, or are upset with things that don't hold the same weight to you personally, doesn't make it any less valid.
    mintiel
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,545
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    edited March 29, 2017
    Ringabel wrote: »
    Let people have fun without ruining it for them, thanks.
    I will let them have fun as much as they want with their characters, but please, PLEASE don't attack people for their opinions or mistakes and make nice threads get closed soon after.
  • LiyetaLiyeta
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,060
    Posts: 765
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    Greta wrote: »
    Most players don't care about lore or story anymore, they want cute characters and outfits, that's all.... At least that's what i see in Mabinogi now. "ALTAM IS SO CUTE OMMMGGGG JUST LOOK AT HIM!", "Elsie is MY BAE", etc. Only because they are cute? Psh... Where are people who like characters because of their story or anything not related about their looks? I don't even know anymore if i like any NPC in Mabinogi because of that...

    Different crowd have different interest. My crowd of peeps care more about farming item and making money.

    Now that i think about it, best npc would be manus and kristel. Best outfit would be rk set XD.

  • s4reenas4reena
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    Ibbie is Best NPC!(followed by Pihne)
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,110
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    It's mostly because any and all drastic lore changing updates (mostly all racial marriage) would cause my lore war thread to fill up to 100 pages if people actually posted their rants in it instead of making normal threads go off topic with it. The greater portion of those comments would either be salt over how lore is being ignored or tossed aside, or salt that #WeCan'tHaveNiceThings because of the lore enthusiasts. Personally, I think players as part of a separate existence from the NPCs could attain all racial marriage without harming the pre-established lore. Although the second problem is that lore changes over time, and lore enthusiasts don't necessarily enjoy that factor and prefer the game to not evolve and remain stagnant.

    Pretty much this, particularly the part in bold, and especially the underlined portion. I haven't seen anyone get worked up about this for any other reason.
    Froglord wrote: »
    Mabinogi's lore is a game of telephone.

    It went from the G1 to G3 starting off fine, g4 ~ g8 was off topic a bit because of Iria, g9 to g12 was for the most part pretty good, but that's when FMA was cool at the time. Then came the maplestory director that ruined most of everything in shakespeare ~ Iria saga, and things were never the same. Everything afterwards was sort of just damage control because of the shakespeare and Iria arcs, and included content just messed up so many things.
    In any case, this is a bad series of stories with unexplained consistencies between them. Inference is hackneyed excused for poor story writing to leave things unexplained. Some things should be explained, or compounded on.

    Rant mode:Engaged. I know people like to give DevCAT a lot of crap over the shakespeare stuff in particular (myself included), but it wasn't even a bad idea (though it did come out of nowhere); it was just horribly executed, as if they hadn't actually planned it out at all. It seems perfectly plausible to me that Shakespeare was here long before we were, and it's even cute to suggest that he got his ideas for his plays from his adventures in Erinn. But why randomly pull out Bella and Crazy Lugh, with a zombie apocalypse? And what about the Guardians of Avon? Wasn't there supposed to be another one? It looks like they either forgot what they were trying to do, or never had an actual plan in the first place.

    Same with the Sagas (or at least Saga 2; Saga 1 was necessary to set up Saga 2, I suppose). Expanding the lore (and gameplay in general) by uncovering new areas in Iria and removing the curse on elves? Sure, that was a great idea. Giving a bit of backstory on that and tying up the Cessairs loose end? Also fine. I even like the idea of a group of Aces. But they did it so terribly, undeniably WRONG. Why are all of the Aces but Merlin and Treasure Hunter stupid, useless background characters (if this was the plan, why did they need to appear in the story to begin with)? Why did they change Treasure hunter from a female elf to a male human, when his being an elf was an important detail of the story? Why couldn't they commit to anything concerning Treasure Hunter and Merlin's characters, aside from a couple of basic traits? All they did was hint at the possibility of there being something to hint at. Examples: "Merlin might actually be ancient and powerful for some reason, but we're never actually going to say that this is even the case, much less reveal the reason." and "Treasure Hunter's name might be important because reasons, so we might almost reveal it to the player." I think the reason most people didn't like Akule (a character I personally found pretty amusing), was that they did something similar with him.

    On top of those issues specific to that storyline, there are all the usual fuzzy terms being thrown around in vaguely cryptic dialogues, which leave us with little choice but to assume a lot of things, as Blissfulkill mentioned. As much as I miss G1-3 style storytelling, this was prevalent even there. We still don't actually know anything about the fomors; the only development we got on that front was exposure to more and more types, which only raised more questions/prompted more assumptions. We learned a little about the gods (although nothing they do in G16 makes any sense when you consider their previous actions), but then they poofed. Unfortunately, most of the things we see outside of the vague story, are basically meaningless because it's impossible to tell when anything happened or what should be affected outside of specific events depicted in the story quests and cutscenes. If I try to put important events into chronological order, the following is the best I can do: Stuff that happened a long time ago - whatever that means - in ??? order (most of the important lore seems to be hidden here)->Stuff that happened in Generation quests->Stuff that happened as a result of generation quests (this consists mostly of following generations, but a few things like the unsealing of Shyllien and Hillwen also fit here).

    So in a nutshell, we're forced to make assumptions on everything that doesn't occur in a cutscene in a mainstream quest because A.Time is weird in Mabinogi, and B.Dialogue in these quests tends to be very vague (not to mention in broken english, though this has improved over the years). I'd like to be able to say, "Yeah, Mabinogi has a cool story", but all I can honestly say is, "Yeah, I think Mabinogi might potentially have a cool story, if my assumptions are correct. It's got some neat cutscenes, at least." G19+ seems to be more coherent at least, but there's still the problem of the Alban Knights appearing out of nowhere, which people keep bringing up. I'd just assumed (there's that word again) that they were a very secretive part of the Pontiff's Court like the Temple Knights, or something like that. Hopefully this will be explained in the future.
    DaktaroZalagrosmintiel
  • SenyuniSenyuni
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    i rly like yvona
    Blankeyemintiel
  • DaktaroDaktaro
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    i like granites and it's not for looks (there are other characters i like much better in terms of looks) but for his personality, character design and backstory. always wonder what he saw that was so bad he couldn't even tell his brother.
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,545
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    Daktaro wrote: »
    i like granites and it's not for looks (there are other characters i like much better in terms of looks) but for his personality, character design and backstory. always wonder what he saw that was so bad he couldn't even tell his brother.

    Plot twist: what he saw was Atrata and Taunes secretly having affair XD!

    Daktaro
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,050
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    Greta wrote: »
    Daktaro wrote: »
    i like granites and it's not for looks (there are other characters i like much better in terms of looks) but for his personality, character design and backstory. always wonder what he saw that was so bad he couldn't even tell his brother.

    Plot twist: what he saw was Atrata and Taunes secretly having affair XD!
    I would want to see that, if out of anything but medical fascination. Damn racist elves. Don't know a good thing when they see it/