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Was MOONGATE BOOK...

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  • RheyRhey
    Mabinogi Rep: 10,030
    Posts: 1,497
    Member
    edited June 21, 2017
    Gaea wrote: »
    Rhey wrote: »
    Gaea wrote: »
    Rhey wrote: »
    If u have all mana tunnel and moongate marked already isn't it the same as having the book? :*

    Not really. The book automatically teleports you, makes it easier instead of having to run around to find a gate/tunnel near you. Especially if you're going to Iria or doing something where you have to move around a lot, like that Adventure Seal quest where to have to go to like five different places for the NPC.

    This, and I have a number of places in Iria where I prefer to get my equipment repaired at. It would just be really convenient to have especially when everyone is wondering where you are and how much longer it's going to take for you to come back. With the book I could just zip through everywhere I need to go a fraction of the time without having to buy and use warp imps.

    Then I suggest removing mana tunnels and warp tunnels b4 implementing the book. And only Key points(Towns/Dungeons) shuld be warpable. Anywhere else shuld req a warp imp so at least its worth paying for em. ;)

    What I hate about warp imps is that you can only save one warp location. Meaning I would have to buy a warp imp for each location I want to save. That's ridiculous.

    Well that privilege comes with the package U can say. Just like how I can clear ADVHM Dungeons + elite Sms with just pet revolver if I payed for enuf of em. No dur and no gears managements nor meta-game skills req. :)
  • YokkaichiYokkaichi
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,035
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    Rhey wrote: »
    Then I suggest removing mana tunnels and warp tunnels b4 implementing the book. And only Key points(Towns/Dungeons) shuld be warpable. Anywhere else shuld req a warp imp so at least its worth paying for em. ;)

    The problem is, not every tunnel/gate is listed in the book. I know off the top of my head that one of the dungeons in Dunby isn't in there, I'm not sure what else.
    I believe the only two moon gates not listed are both dungeons in Dunby.
  • AeolysAeolys
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,115
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    edited June 21, 2017
    I am saddened at how people are too lazy to walk up to a moon gate/mana tunnel.
    XiokunGretaRadiant Dawn
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,545
    Posts: 6,919
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    edited June 22, 2017
    Aeolys wrote: »
    I am saddened at how people are too lazy to walk up to a moon gate/mana tunnel.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This. I still remember times when we had way less Moongates/Mana tunnels and they would only work at in-game day/night.
    I also heard there was no such thing like Moongates or Mounts like way more years back, but i wasn't playing Mabinogi that time, but i can still imagine how lame it was...
  • AeolysAeolys
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,115
    Posts: 469
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    edited June 22, 2017
    Greta wrote: »
    Aeolys wrote: »
    I am saddened at how people are too lazy to walk up to a moon gate/mana tunnel.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This. I still remember times when we had way less Moongates/Mana tunnels and they would only work at in-game day/night.
    I also heard there was no such thing like Moongates or Mounts like way more years back, but i wasn't playing Mabinogi that time, but i can still imagine how lame it was...

    Moongates used to only teleport you to a single moongate each night. We had to look up a moongate schedule to know if the moongate will take you where you wanted. And Ceo Island would only be accessible maybe twice a real time day making generation quests take several real time days to complete. Most of the time, the moongate wouldn't take you where you want, and we have to walk. No mounts. No elves/giants. Just humans running across the continent.

    People nowadays just want more and more conveniences and are not at all grateful about the conveniences they already have right the hell now.
    GretaSebastian
  • badnewsbarrettbadnewsbarrett
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,890
    Posts: 519
    Member
    Aeolys wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    Aeolys wrote: »
    I am saddened at how people are too lazy to walk up to a moon gate/mana tunnel.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This. I still remember times when we had way less Moongates/Mana tunnels and they would only work at in-game day/night.
    I also heard there was no such thing like Moongates or Mounts like way more years back, but i wasn't playing Mabinogi that time, but i can still imagine how lame it was...

    Moongates used to only teleport you to a single moongate each night. We had to look up a moongate schedule to know if the moongate will take you where you wanted. And Ceo Island would only be accessible maybe twice a real time day making generation quests take several real time days to complete. Most of the time, the moongate wouldn't take you where you want, and we have to walk. No mounts. No elves/giants. Just humans running across the continent.

    People nowadays just want more and more conveniences and are not at all grateful about the conveniences they already have right the hell now.

    Okay but the point of a game is to evolve, I don't see why people keep bringing up that "before, you could only use moon gates at night" and everything else because what relevance does that have to right now, since the game isn't even like that right now?

    And also, you don't HAVE to use the book. Let players who want to use it, use it, and those who don't can still use the gates, it's that simple. It doesn't make people "ungrateful" because they don't want things to always stay the same. And I never saw anyone saying someone under 1k who uses their book as being ungrateful, so why are older players suddenly that for wanting it?
    ShouKCrimsọnRaishii
  • ArjuneArjune
    Mabinogi Rep: 16,765
    Posts: 1,751
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    edited June 22, 2017
    any time I log on an alt on my account to get adventure seals or whatever reason and they don't have any of the moongates it really annoys me... so they should at least let ALL characters under 1k get the damn book. even if another character on the account is 10k+ it's not like the book is tradeable -_-
    GretabadnewsbarrettDanievictria
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 62,580
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    edited June 22, 2017
    Aeolys wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    Aeolys wrote: »
    I am saddened at how people are too lazy to walk up to a moon gate/mana tunnel.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This. I still remember times when we had way less Moongates/Mana tunnels and they would only work at in-game day/night.
    I also heard there was no such thing like Moongates or Mounts like way more years back, but i wasn't playing Mabinogi that time, but i can still imagine how lame it was...

    Moongates used to only teleport you to a single moongate each night. We had to look up a moongate schedule to know if the moongate will take you where you wanted. And Ceo Island would only be accessible maybe twice a real time day making generation quests take several real time days to complete. Most of the time, the moongate wouldn't take you where you want, and we have to walk. No mounts. No elves/giants. Just humans running across the continent.

    People nowadays just want more and more conveniences and are not at all grateful about the conveniences they already have right the hell now.

    Okay but the point of a game is to evolve, I don't see why people keep bringing up that "before, you could only use moon gates at night" and everything else because what relevance does that have to right now, since the game isn't even like that right now?

    And also, you don't HAVE to use the book. Let players who want to use it, use it, and those who don't can still use the gates, it's that simple. It doesn't make people "ungrateful" because they don't want things to always stay the same. And I never saw anyone saying someone under 1k who uses their book as being ungrateful, so why are older players suddenly that for wanting it?

    People just want to argue for the sake of arguing. That's what happens in forums. These people probably don't even care if it's implemented or not. Which is why I don't even know why they are commenting. We could keep this thread afloat ourselves.
    badnewsbarrett
  • AeolysAeolys
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,115
    Posts: 469
    Member
    edited June 22, 2017
    Aeolys wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    Aeolys wrote: »
    I am saddened at how people are too lazy to walk up to a moon gate/mana tunnel.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This. I still remember times when we had way less Moongates/Mana tunnels and they would only work at in-game day/night.
    I also heard there was no such thing like Moongates or Mounts like way more years back, but i wasn't playing Mabinogi that time, but i can still imagine how lame it was...

    Moongates used to only teleport you to a single moongate each night. We had to look up a moongate schedule to know if the moongate will take you where you wanted. And Ceo Island would only be accessible maybe twice a real time day making generation quests take several real time days to complete. Most of the time, the moongate wouldn't take you where you want, and we have to walk. No mounts. No elves/giants. Just humans running across the continent.

    People nowadays just want more and more conveniences and are not at all grateful about the conveniences they already have right the hell now.

    Okay but the point of a game is to evolve, I don't see why people keep bringing up that "before, you could only use moon gates at night" and everything else because what relevance does that have to right now, since the game isn't even like that right now?

    And also, you don't HAVE to use the book. Let players who want to use it, use it, and those who don't can still use the gates, it's that simple. It doesn't make people "ungrateful" because they don't want things to always stay the same. And I never saw anyone saying someone under 1k who uses their book as being ungrateful, so why are older players suddenly that for wanting it?

    I agree with the game evolving and getting change. But I'm arguing on the part of convenience. If things get too convenient, doing anything else around us would become mundane, unpopular and unused. Whats the point of walking into town? Whats the point to running to a dungeon? Whats the point of traveling pass Sen Mag? The ability to skip the walk to wherever you want in an instant makes it so that everywhere inbetween becomes insignificant empty filler. This removes the value of time. Is it worth it to move to point A? To point B? Maybe I should do all my quests in the local area before moving on. What would be the point to use a mount if I can just teleport anywhere I want? If we keep making things more and more convenient, we will be reduced to pushing a button to start a shadow mission or a dungeon anytime anywhere. We'll become no better than any mundane mobile game if we move in this direction.
    Greta
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,110
    Posts: 279
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    Aeolys wrote: »
    I agree with the game evolving and getting change. But I'm arguing on the part of convenience. If things get too convenient, doing anything else would around us become mundane, unpopular and unused. Whats the point of walking into town? Whats the point to running to a dungeon? Whats the point of traveling pass Sen Mag? The ability to skip the walk to wherever you want in an instant makes it so that everywhere inbetween becomes insignificant empty filler. This removes the value of time. Is it worth it to move to point A? To point B? Maybe I should do all my quests in the local area before moving on. What would be the point to use a mount if I can just teleport anywhere I want? If we keep making things more and more convenient, we will be reduced to pushing a button to start a shadow mission or a dungeon anytime anywhere. We'll become no better than any mundane mobile game if we move in this direction.

    I agree entirely, except I feel like we're already at that point, more or less. You can choose to use the optimal choice, or you can choose to use anything else - aside from that, there's little significance to any of the choices this game offers anymore.

    Pertaining to the moongate thing specifically, a big part of Mabi's allure is supposedly the open world. However, no one traverses it, and I don't even blame them because there's very little reason to traverse it and little to do in it, even in Iria where exploration is supposed to be a thing. Currently the open world serves three purposes: 1.Commerce, 2.Events, and 3.Going to random secluded places where you're not likely to encounter randoms. As neat as that is, I'd like to have something to do, and I'd like to see people roaming around again.
    Aeolys
  • BroochBrooch
    Mabinogi Rep: 720
    Posts: 28
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    Aeolys wrote: »
    Aeolys wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    Aeolys wrote: »
    I am saddened at how people are too lazy to walk up to a moon gate/mana tunnel.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This. I still remember times when we had way less Moongates/Mana tunnels and they would only work at in-game day/night.
    I also heard there was no such thing like Moongates or Mounts like way more years back, but i wasn't playing Mabinogi that time, but i can still imagine how lame it was...

    Moongates used to only teleport you to a single moongate each night. We had to look up a moongate schedule to know if the moongate will take you where you wanted. And Ceo Island would only be accessible maybe twice a real time day making generation quests take several real time days to complete. Most of the time, the moongate wouldn't take you where you want, and we have to walk. No mounts. No elves/giants. Just humans running across the continent.

    People nowadays just want more and more conveniences and are not at all grateful about the conveniences they already have right the hell now.

    Okay but the point of a game is to evolve, I don't see why people keep bringing up that "before, you could only use moon gates at night" and everything else because what relevance does that have to right now, since the game isn't even like that right now?

    And also, you don't HAVE to use the book. Let players who want to use it, use it, and those who don't can still use the gates, it's that simple. It doesn't make people "ungrateful" because they don't want things to always stay the same. And I never saw anyone saying someone under 1k who uses their book as being ungrateful, so why are older players suddenly that for wanting it?

    I agree with the game evolving and getting change. But I'm arguing on the part of convenience. If things get too convenient, doing anything else around us would become mundane, unpopular and unused. Whats the point of walking into town? Whats the point to running to a dungeon? Whats the point of traveling pass Sen Mag? The ability to skip the walk to wherever you want in an instant makes it so that everywhere inbetween becomes insignificant empty filler. This removes the value of time. Is it worth it to move to point A? To point B? Maybe I should do all my quests in the local area before moving on. What would be the point to use a mount if I can just teleport anywhere I want? If we keep making things more and more convenient, we will be reduced to pushing a button to start a shadow mission or a dungeon anytime anywhere. We'll become no better than any mundane mobile game if we move in this direction.

    I disagree. Times are changing and people expect convenience both in-game and in the real world. I haven't played Mabinogi for as long as many of you have, but I can see that moongates are a welcome addition to the game and this schedule that had to be followed in the past seems to be depicted as an inconvenience. If the game hadn't evolved to include the moongate update, I believe many more players would have left sooner because the only way to achieve that convenience is through purchasing a Warp Imp for NX.

    For those who actually enjoy the nostalgic way of traversing through the game, there's nothing stopping you from walking, following an imaginary schedule where one must wait several real time days to get to another area, or even commercing which restricts you from these conveniences...
    badnewsbarrett
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,110
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    Brooch wrote: »
    I disagree. Times are changing and people expect convenience both in-game and in the real world. I haven't played Mabinogi for as long as many of you have, but I can see that moongates are a welcome addition to the game and this schedule that had to be followed in the past seems to be depicted as an inconvenience. If the game hadn't evolved to include the moongate update, I believe many more players would have left sooner because the only way to achieve that convenience is through purchasing a Warp Imp for NX.

    For those who actually enjoy the nostalgic way of traversing through the game, there's nothing stopping you from walking, following an imaginary schedule where one must wait several real time days to get to another area, or even commercing which restricts you from these conveniences...

    It's not so much about the convenience or lack of it in this case, but more about the extensive overworld being neglected.

    And in other cases, convenience can be taken so far as to remove the meaning from everything. In some ways, we've already reached that point. Why use other options when this option is superior by far in every way? If you make everything equally overpowered so that everything can mow down anything in the game with ease, what's the difference between anything? Eventually it gets to the point where you're just mindlessly mowing things down for your rewards, and you might as well just be clicking a dungeon button that spits out a reward with a success rate derived from your equipment and stats - essentially a mobile game, but perhaps more time consuming.

    On another note, that train of thought seems to be all too common around here. "It's still in the game, so you can enjoy it if you want (but you'd be downright stupid to when you could be doing this)", but people who think this way often don't care about how these things mix with the rest of the game. Meanwhile, these same people tend to be overly attached to a certain way of playing, primarily because of the easy profit it grants relative to other options.
    AeolysGretaDanievictria
  • BroochBrooch
    Mabinogi Rep: 720
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    Brooch wrote: »
    I disagree. Times are changing and people expect convenience both in-game and in the real world. I haven't played Mabinogi for as long as many of you have, but I can see that moongates are a welcome addition to the game and this schedule that had to be followed in the past seems to be depicted as an inconvenience. If the game hadn't evolved to include the moongate update, I believe many more players would have left sooner because the only way to achieve that convenience is through purchasing a Warp Imp for NX.

    For those who actually enjoy the nostalgic way of traversing through the game, there's nothing stopping you from walking, following an imaginary schedule where one must wait several real time days to get to another area, or even commercing which restricts you from these conveniences...

    It's not so much about the convenience or lack of it in this case, but more about the extensive overworld being neglected.

    And in other cases, convenience can be taken so far as to remove the meaning from everything. In some ways, we've already reached that point. Why use other options when this option is superior by far in every way? If you make everything equally overpowered so that everything can mow down anything in the game with ease, what's the difference between anything? Eventually it gets to the point where you're just mindlessly mowing things down for your rewards, and you might as well just be clicking a dungeon button that spits out a reward with a success rate derived from your equipment and stats - essentially a mobile game, but perhaps more time consuming.

    On another note, that train of thought seems to be all too common around here. "It's still in the game, so you can enjoy it if you want (but you'd be downright stupid to when you could be doing this)", but people who think this way often don't care about how these things mix with the rest of the game. Meanwhile, these same people tend to be overly attached to a certain way of playing, primarily because of the easy profit it grants relative to other options.

    I mean, other parts of the game have already become that way. Most veteran players have already maxed their stats and are so powerful that they can indeed "[mow] things down for [their] rewards".
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,110
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    edited June 22, 2017
    Brooch wrote: »
    I mean, other parts of the game have already become that way. Most veteran players have already maxed their stats and are so powerful that they can indeed "[mow] things down for [their] rewards".
    And in other cases, convenience can be taken so far as to remove the meaning from everything. In some ways, we've already reached that point. Why use other options when this option is superior by far in every way? If you make everything equally overpowered so that everything can mow down anything in the game with ease, what's the difference between anything? Eventually it gets to the point where you're just mindlessly mowing things down for your rewards, and you might as well just be clicking a dungeon button that spits out a reward with a success rate derived from your equipment and stats - essentially a mobile game, but perhaps more time consuming.

    Do you think it's a good thing?

    Just to be clear, I'm not saying that we should go back to the old moongate system (though I wouldn't mind it too much). I'm not saying that players over 1k shouldn't get the moongate book either (I really don't care either way - and I think it'd be great as a gold sink). I'm just saying that the 'open world', which is supposedly one of the main draws of this game, could use some attention.
    Danievictria
  • BroochBrooch
    Mabinogi Rep: 720
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    edited June 22, 2017
    Brooch wrote: »
    I mean, other parts of the game have already become that way. Most veteran players have already maxed their stats and are so powerful that they can indeed "[mow] things down for [their] rewards".
    And in other cases, convenience can be taken so far as to remove the meaning from everything. In some ways, we've already reached that point. Why use other options when this option is superior by far in every way? If you make everything equally overpowered so that everything can mow down anything in the game with ease, what's the difference between anything? Eventually it gets to the point where you're just mindlessly mowing things down for your rewards, and you might as well just be clicking a dungeon button that spits out a reward with a success rate derived from your equipment and stats - essentially a mobile game, but perhaps more time consuming.

    Do you think it's a good thing?

    Yes and no. I think it is appropriate for players who've devoted many years into training their characters to be strong enough to complete activities with greater ease than, say, players like myself who've only been playing for over a year. On the other hand, there needs to be more challenging content or difficulty levels to keep players motivated to strengthen their characters further.

    I do not think that making the moonbook available to everyone will interfere in this. As I said earlier, if a player wishes to challenge themselves to travel by foot that option will continue to exist.
    Just to be clear, I'm not saying that we should go back to the old moongate system (though I wouldn't mind it too much). I'm not saying that players over 1k shouldn't get the moongate book either (I really don't care either way - and I think it'd be great as a gold sink). I'm just saying that the 'open world', which is supposedly one of the main draws of this game, could use some attention.

    I see you added some detail to your post. I did mention in an earlier post on this thread that making the moonbook available to everyone may have the effect of bringing more attention to otherwise neglected parts of the game. Those who never received a moonbook would first have to visit every moongate to activate those gates, and the convenience of such a book may cause players to feel more inclined to explore these random areas.
  • badnewsbarrettbadnewsbarrett
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    Aeolys wrote: »
    I agree with the game evolving and getting change. But I'm arguing on the part of convenience. If things get too convenient, doing anything else around us would become mundane, unpopular and unused. Whats the point of walking into town? Whats the point to running to a dungeon? Whats the point of traveling pass Sen Mag? The ability to skip the walk to wherever you want in an instant makes it so that everywhere inbetween becomes insignificant empty filler. This removes the value of time. Is it worth it to move to point A? To point B? Maybe I should do all my quests in the local area before moving on. What would be the point to use a mount if I can just teleport anywhere I want? If we keep making things more and more convenient, we will be reduced to pushing a button to start a shadow mission or a dungeon anytime anywhere. We'll become no better than any mundane mobile game if we move in this direction.

    I use the book because I'm under 1k and I use mounts all the time as well so that point is moot. Also people wouldn't stop using mounts seeing as how they still hold inventory space anyway.

    Also, most land is filler already, in a sense, unless you have an event going on there. Most people get where they need to go fast and do what they need to do. They aren't taking the scenic route just for fun (though I'm sure there are some players that do, nothing wrong with that. And again, the book won't stop them from doing that.) Aside from using certain places to train, or commerce, the land is already empty.
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,110
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    Brooch wrote: »
    Do you think it's a good thing?

    Yes and no. I think it is appropriate for players who've devoted many years into training their characters to be strong enough to complete activities with greater ease than, say, players like myself who've only been playing for over a year. On the other hand, there needs to be more challenging content or difficulty levels to keep players motivated to strengthen their characters further.

    I do not think that making the moonbook available to everyone will interfere in this. As I said earlier, if a player wishes to challenge themselves to travel by foot that option will continue to exist.

    I agree with you here, but you forgot the part about managing powercreep so characters can never completely curb stomp old content without any chance of being thwarted (or more accurately, without giving enemies any chance to respond, see shooting rush). I don't blame you, since Nexon forgot it too.
    I see you added some detail to your post. I did mention in an earlier post on this thread that making the moonbook available to everyone may have the effect of bringing more attention to otherwise neglected parts of the game. Those who never received a moonbook would first have to visit every moongate to activate those gates, and the convenience of such a book may cause players to feel more inclined to explore these random areas.

    Assuming players have to collect gates for the book, yes. I don't see why it would work this way, since we already have a book that doesn't, but I don't know that the new one doesn't. It would only be a one time thing though. There still wouldn't be much of a reason for anyone to interact with the open world. It needs work.

    Anyway, it's pretty clear now that I'm kind of derailing here, so I'll leave it at this. Just wanted to respond to Aeolys's comment since I sympathized with it. Didn't really read anything else. =3=;
  • BroochBrooch
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    edited June 22, 2017
    Assuming players have to collect gates for the book, yes. I don't see why it would work this way, since we already have a book that doesn't, but I don't know that the new one doesn't. It would only be a one time thing though.

    Unless they changed it since January 2016, I had to visit every moon gate before it would become available in the moonbook. :P
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
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    edited June 22, 2017
    Greta wrote: »
    Aeolys wrote: »
    I am saddened at how people are too lazy to walk up to a moon gate/mana tunnel.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This. I still remember times when we had way less Moongates/Mana tunnels and they would only work at in-game day/night.
    I also heard there was no such thing like Moongates or Mounts like way more years back, but i wasn't playing Mabinogi that time, but i can still imagine how lame it was...

    Well, moongates would've had to have existed upon Ceo Island coming about, because Moongates are literally the only way to reach Ceo, not including housing coupons, which, to take you back to Ceo, would require you to be able to get to Ceo in the first place.

    But yeah, it was super fun waiting for the moongate to switch to Ceo Island just to talk to a single NPC there for five minutes. /sarcasm

    At least the mana tunnels have always let you choose where to go.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
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    @Saygo @Nkeona @Mewlynne @Katherz Are we ever going to get this item?
This discussion has been closed.