Check out all of the details of this month's Patch Notes, featuring the Reflections: Reforged update!
https://mabinogi.nexon.net/news/69963/reflections-reforged-patch-notes-november-4th-2021
[NEW MILLETIANS] Please note that all new forum users have to be approved before posting. This process can take up to 24 hours, and we appreciate your patience.
If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the Nexon Forums Code of Conduct. You have to register before you can post, so you can log in or create a forum name above to proceed. Thank you for your visit!

The Elf Revamp, Yes I said it.

Comments

  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 63,705
    Posts: 8,650
    Member
    Sherri wrote: »
    3 mill damage?! Better than I'll ever be. O_O

    That sounded sarcastic.
    I'm not trying to and I'm not joking.

    a2ed84c9d486fff04ce6769b2e365baf1bba4d6a_hq.gif
    Sherri
  • lceCreamlceCream
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,205
    Posts: 199
    Member
    Toon wrote: »
    If you would have actually watched the video, both FS and mirage are used in phantasm. No mirage in alby because not necessary. 13k is very low total level, and like I said earlier, you need to spend a lot on any race to be able to clear the content in the videos with efficiency, this is not unique to elves. Also, if you spend a lot of gold on both an elf or a human, you will clear faster on the elf.

    I'm 12k and have everything exept alchemy maxed :|

  • ToonToon
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,460
    Posts: 37
    Member
    lceCream wrote: »
    I'm 12k and have everything exept alchemy maxed :|

    SoE caps at 40k. It's not about skill cap.
  • FoodfoodfoodFoodfoodfood
    Mabinogi Rep: 980
    Posts: 51
    Member
    Wow, kudos to this Toon guy for doing a much better job at trying to convince the "elves suck and need a revamp" forum hive mind that elves are actually p good. Alas, soon one of them will hit you with another straw man like how elves lose Visions when they change channels or something about lag.
    NilremPolicroma
  • SiodhanSiodhan
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,825
    Posts: 315
    Member
    Wow, kudos to this Toon guy for doing a much better job at trying to convince the "elves suck and need a revamp" forum hive mind that elves are actually p good. Alas, soon one of them will hit you with another straw man like how elves lose Visions when they change channels or something about lag.

    Or perhaps some people don't actually feel like arguing about wallet warriors and about videos that incorporate far more than and almost nothing of the actual initial post's topic. This promptly became another thread about elf QQ and the crushing of elf QQ alongside actual criticism, in equal, uncaring amounts. I said what I thought about the proposed changes, but this all feels very different from the initial premise and I can understand if people are tired as hell of this type of attitude. You could cut them some slack, at least.
    KagaSherri
  • FoodfoodfoodFoodfoodfood
    Mabinogi Rep: 980
    Posts: 51
    Member
    Sure, and you could just stop complaining and demanding for unnecessary changes every month on the forums for the best race in game. Then I'll cut them some slack.
    Nilrem
  • PHENGISKOOLPHENGISKOOL
    Mabinogi Rep: 360
    Posts: 13
    Member
    So these types of high-endgame elf players are they not part of the equation when it comes to balancing/revamping now? You have clear video evidence of how strong elves can become. Were you to apply Op's lists of changes, does that not affect these type of play styles or make elves even stronger from the view point of these video? You guys seem so keen on condemning "wallet warriors" with excuses of reforge and summoning pets. It seem you guy can't even look pass, that these type of player are part of the game too. Thus changes for a race that is already powerful is really unnecessary. If you guys can't understand that there no point in talking about revamps/new skills at all.
    Nilrem
  • SiodhanSiodhan
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,825
    Posts: 315
    Member
    edited November 8, 2017
    Oh, I do understand...but do note the archery focus of the first post. Those videos are perhaps 5% archery - and all of that is balanced on a tightrope of insanely low latency, SoG and quite possibly a ridiculous amount of reforging. The whole rest of the video just showcases how anyone can run anything as long as they poop money.
    I'm aware elves can run everything. I'm not a fan of the general QQ, either. You'll have to realize that some of these threads -- or perhaps some posts in these types of threads -- are not always "QQ" though. It always gets written off like that. Always.

    Problem is, some of you treat everyone who starts a discussion like this as an idiot, but it takes one to know one. Case in point, check how you now pray to those few posts like a work of God and assume it is the whole truth and all knowledge you have is innately superior and everyone else is automatically dumb, despite maaaaybe there being a chance that you're not actually fully right, or you misunderstood a person's intentions or words. That is why some of us don't like arguing about this for a long time, including myself. Hell, even if you were to be right (that is not to say that you aren't, but I'm not convinced that you are in everything you say), you are all wording your posts to condescendingly and low-key rudely that I am immediately put off by it, regardless of the point. So...you know what, actually. I'll just be elsewhere. Jesus.
    SherriHazurah
  • Sphyra21Sphyra21
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,555
    Posts: 504
    Member
    edited November 8, 2017
    Ok tell me why I keep readin' things about mirage missile bein' useless. Since when? Mirage missile is awesome and useful. It has the poison-like effect PLUS it slows down the mobs' speed (so long as you don't hit them with mirage missile while they are in defense).

    I can't find anythin' to complain about mirage missile (other than the cooldown time ofc XDDDDDDDD)

    KR needs to get their act together and take into account the difference in internet speed here >>

    EDIT: Oops forgot to add my 2 cents about Final Shot.
    I like the idea of makin' it so that it nvr misses. I mean have any of you tried to use Shine of Eweca AND FS together? YA STILL BLOODY MISS 90% OF THE TIME!!!!!!!
    BlissfulkillSherri
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,120
    Posts: 2,781
    Member
    Sphyra21 wrote: »
    Ok tell me why I keep readin' things about mirage missile bein' useless. Since when? Mirage missile is awesome and useful. It has the poison-like effect PLUS it slows down the mobs' speed (so long as you don't hit them with mirage missile while they are in defense).

    I can't find anythin' to complain about mirage missile (other than the cooldown time ofc XDDDDDDDD)

    KR needs to get their act together and take into account the difference in internet speed here >>

    EDIT: Oops forgot to add my 2 cents about Final Shot.
    I like the idea of makin' it so that it nvr misses. I mean have any of you tried to use Shine of Eweca AND FS together? YA STILL BLOODY MISS 90% OF THE TIME!!!!!!!

    I use it all the time. Cannot see the complaint here. It functions as intended, which ideally, is what I have always wanted.
  • PHENGISKOOLPHENGISKOOL
    Mabinogi Rep: 360
    Posts: 13
    Member
    (Nobody uses lance counter, lets make it instant win the run when you use it! Paladin and dark knight don't have Attack transformation skills (oh no!) lets give them a skill that one shot everything with zero cooldown?! Lets make giants dual wielded lances with no logical reasons at all!) Am I doing this right-sarcasm...
    Sphyra21 wrote: »
    Ok tell me why I keep readin' things about mirage missile bein' useless. Since when? Mirage missile is awesome and useful. It has the poison-like effect PLUS it slows down the mobs' speed (so long as you don't hit them with mirage missile while they are in defense).

    I can't find anythin' to complain about mirage missile (other than the cooldown time ofc XDDDDDDDD)

    KR needs to get their act together and take into account the difference in internet speed here >>

    EDIT: Oops forgot to add my 2 cents about Final Shot.
    I like the idea of makin' it so that it nvr misses. I mean have any of you tried to use Shine of Eweca AND FS together? YA STILL BLOODY MISS 90% OF THE TIME!!!!!!!

    Yet no video or any evidence of the issue to support said claim topical...
    Sphyra21 wrote: »
    Ok tell me why I keep readin' things about mirage missile bein' useless. Since when? Mirage missile is awesome and useful. It has the poison-like effect PLUS it slows down the mobs' speed (so long as you don't hit them with mirage missile while they are in defense).

    I can't find anythin' to complain about mirage missile (other than the cooldown time ofc XDDDDDDDD)

    KR needs to get their act together and take into account the difference in internet speed here >>

    EDIT: Oops forgot to add my 2 cents about Final Shot.
    I like the idea of makin' it so that it nvr misses. I mean have any of you tried to use Shine of Eweca AND FS together? YA STILL BLOODY MISS 90% OF THE TIME!!!!!!!

    I use it all the time. Cannot see the complaint here. It functions as intended, which ideally, is what I have always wanted.

    Focus fist I-frame that nobody uses, think outside of the box for once when mirage missile has a slowdown effect on target....

  • NilremNilrem
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,880
    Posts: 465
    Member
    So these types of high-endgame elf players are they not part of the equation when it comes to balancing/revamping now? You have clear video evidence of how strong elves can become. Were you to apply Op's lists of changes, does that not affect these type of play styles or make elves even stronger from the view point of these video? You guys seem so keen on condemning "wallet warriors" with excuses of reforge and summoning pets. It seem you guy can't even look pass, that these type of player are part of the game too. Thus changes for a race that is already powerful is really unnecessary. If you guys can't understand that there no point in talking about revamps/new skills at all.

    Pretty much this.

    I understand that some people want to "fix" archery by buffing it outside of reforges, but...

    If you just do nothing but buff it, that does not solve the "problem".
    By buffing normal archery, you also buff archery reforges. Most likely by an even larger amount due to % values.

    So instead of getting rid of the funding, reforges, or as pheng put it, "Wallet warriors", you actually make them stronger and have an even larger presence in your vain attempt to get rid of them.

    Even the final shot buff idea would be absurd. Sure it would make non reforge archery stronger, but then you'll have reforges around to make final shot's new buff into an unlimited mode combined with already present archery reforges.
    Nothing would be a challenge anymore. Even less so than now.

    There is a reason I said to just let Chain Slash be the indirect elf buff.
    It doesn't mess with what is already there, its powerful, and elves can use it with little to no funding and be effective.
  • PHENGISKOOLPHENGISKOOL
    Mabinogi Rep: 360
    Posts: 13
    Member
    Nilrem wrote: »
    So these types of high-endgame elf players are they not part of the equation when it comes to balancing/revamping now? You have clear video evidence of how strong elves can become. Were you to apply Op's lists of changes, does that not affect these type of play styles or make elves even stronger from the view point of these video? You guys seem so keen on condemning "wallet warriors" with excuses of reforge and summoning pets. It seem you guy can't even look pass, that these type of player are part of the game too. Thus changes for a race that is already powerful is really unnecessary. If you guys can't understand that there no point in talking about revamps/new skills at all.

    Pretty much this.

    I understand that some people want to "fix" archery by buffing it outside of reforges, but...

    If you just do nothing but buff it, that does not solve the "problem".
    By buffing normal archery, you also buff archery reforges. Most likely by an even larger amount due to % values.

    So instead of getting rid of the funding, reforges, or as pheng put it, "Wallet warriors", you actually make them stronger and have an even larger presence in your vain attempt to get rid of them.

    Even the final shot buff idea would be absurd. Sure it would make non reforge archery stronger, but then you'll have reforges around to make final shot's new buff into an unlimited mode combined with already present archery reforges.
    Nothing would be a challenge anymore. Even less so than now.

    There is a reason I said to just let Chain Slash be the indirect elf buff.
    It doesn't mess with what is already there, its powerful, and elves can use it with little to no funding and be effective.

    Chain impale + support shot



    Duo same set up



    Nilrem
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,135
    Posts: 2,714
    Member
    Siodhan wrote: »
    I'm aware elves can run everything. I'm not a fan of the general QQ, either. You'll have to realize that some of these threads -- or perhaps some posts in these types of threads -- are not always "QQ" though. It always gets written off like that. Always.

    Exactly! Well, most of the time it only becomes Elf QQ if somebody deems the thread Elf QQ and ruins the thread


    (The rest below is not directed towards you, it's me ranting. Again. I apologize, just sick and tired of all this hate towards elves.)

    I've said it before and I will say it again, treat the thread like any other.
    This is a simple thread discussing elves and possible revamps for them.
    Yet people love to call every elf related thread 'QQ'.
    I really don't understand why people do this!
    Yes, their archery is overpowered, okay whatever. I just want more options! I hate archery!
    Let us be better with more than just that! What happened to us being good with magic?!
    I only want more diversity for us! This is literally all I want.
    More talents that elves can use well, besides archery and only archery. I'm not asking for it to be OP as archery either!
    Maybe even dual wielding. Perhaps take out the dual wielding mastery for elves to make up for it?
    I don't even want final hit, I just wanna dual wield.


    Chains class better be good..
  • TatsugiTatsugi
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,640
    Posts: 146
    Member
    Just gonna say, if we are doing the Elf revamp, while we are at it since the Elves and Humans use the same body skin/mesh, FIX IT while we can? Giants got it after they broke into mangled monstrosities years ago.
  • lceCreamlceCream
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,205
    Posts: 199
    Member
    Nilrem wrote: »
    So these types of high-endgame elf players are they not part of the equation when it comes to balancing/revamping now? You have clear video evidence of how strong elves can become. Were you to apply Op's lists of changes, does that not affect these type of play styles or make elves even stronger from the view point of these video? You guys seem so keen on condemning "wallet warriors" with excuses of reforge and summoning pets. It seem you guy can't even look pass, that these type of player are part of the game too. Thus changes for a race that is already powerful is really unnecessary. If you guys can't understand that there no point in talking about revamps/new skills at all.

    Pretty much this.

    I understand that some people want to "fix" archery by buffing it outside of reforges, but...

    If you just do nothing but buff it, that does not solve the "problem".
    By buffing normal archery, you also buff archery reforges. Most likely by an even larger amount due to % values.

    So instead of getting rid of the funding, reforges, or as pheng put it, "Wallet warriors", you actually make them stronger and have an even larger presence in your vain attempt to get rid of them.

    Even the final shot buff idea would be absurd. Sure it would make non reforge archery stronger, but then you'll have reforges around to make final shot's new buff into an unlimited mode combined with already present archery reforges.
    Nothing would be a challenge anymore. Even less so than now.

    There is a reason I said to just let Chain Slash be the indirect elf buff.
    It doesn't mess with what is already there, its powerful, and elves can use it with little to no funding and be effective.

    Chain impale + support shot



    Duo same set up



    is that w/o reforges? that's pretty cool
    so basically humans and elves win here. Giants can't use SS
    humans also have lower cooldown for SS for some reason
  • PHENGISKOOLPHENGISKOOL
    Mabinogi Rep: 360
    Posts: 13
    Member
    @IceCream Chain Impale at rank one 850% damage (reforge 3% damage per level, at level 20 = 60%) + 60% = 910% meh reforge isn't really needed when it already powerful than most skills. Mostly comes down to Chain burst (Self buff 30% damage all chain slash skills only) and Death marker debuff (20% more damage inflicted on target, can also be dan tested for more) with support shot for added fun. https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/User:Rydian/Chain_Skills#.5BChain_Burst.5D_.EC.B2.B4.EC.9D.B8_.EB.B2.84.EC.8A.A4.ED.8A.B8


    Death marker + (Board axe) Giant full swing only, giants aren't that far behind.
  • qaccyqaccy
    Mabinogi Rep: 545
    Posts: 14
    Member
    The 'revamp' laid out in the OP sounds pretty poorly thought-out, and I couldn't help but think that a lot of it seemed to want to turn elves into something akin to a rogue or assassin-like class, making stealth an actual mechanic in attacking and whatnot.

    Anyway, I don't personally agree with people arguing against changing something simply because of idealized theoretical scenarios. A Pivotal Moments Rusted Longsword has a max damage of 999, does that mean I can call it the best weapon in the game and it has no flaws? I don't think so. I used this extreme example to illustrate that it's the same with Elves, though much more complex than that. So what if Elves can theoretically do the most damage? It doesn't change the fact that archery in particular is extremely clunky, highly prone to lag/latency, and for Elves in particular relies heavily on an ability with a 36-minute cooldown that you can only use at level 100+. Are all of these factors totally fine simply because of what can be achieved in the ideal scenario that doesn't even apply for most players most of the time? I don't think so, myself.
  • AldetisAldetis
    Post: 1
    Member
    What is the likelihood of someone getting haunted/creepy compared to other Regions getting Song of fist?
    Not everyone has it.
    Archery is the strongest skillset for elves, hence why elves are the strongest race according to you.

    If you look up to the other regions so much, why don't you show us what you can do in NA instead of asking how many of us still play the game since all of those videos you showed us are solo runs.
    So it doesn't really matter how many people still play or quit the game.

    If people knew how much that guy in the video for example spent on all that gear, they wouldn't even try to be like him.
    The only one in this thread who wouldn't mind spending thousands of bucks for a 2004 MMORPG game here is only you.

    The only thing that's cringy here is how far up in JP's ass you are.
    Find me videos of NA runs, instead of other regions.

    f-8wTvnhReShbW1TZ9ejMw.png
  • LamorakkLamorakk
    Mabinogi Rep: 100
    Post: 1
    Member
    @IceCream Chain Impale at rank one 850% damage (reforge 3% damage per level, at level 20 = 60%) + 60% = 910% meh reforge isn't really needed when it already powerful than most skills. Mostly comes down to Chain burst (Self buff 30% damage all chain slash skills only) and Death marker debuff (20% more damage inflicted on target, can also be dan tested for more) with support shot for added fun. https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/User:Rydian/Chain_Skills#.5BChain_Burst.5D_.EC.B2.B4.EC.9D.B8_.EB.B2.84.EC.8A.A4.ED.8A.B8


    Death marker + (Board axe) Giant full swing only, giants aren't that far behind.

    I see that your posting videos and stuff like this and in my opinion it helps but hurts at the same time.
    Mostly because that stuff looks like it might not be as effective on our lovely latency switching and summoning that quick between with no fail so to me your videos instantly lose all meaning.
    On top of that we have no idea what level or stats these people are it just shows us we could possibly as this race do this thing at this unknown level and equipment.