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Easier Dan tests

Comments

  • iMattxCiMattxC
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,075
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    edited December 9, 2017
    As the title says, after speaking with players on the east coast, we have agreed that many advancement tests are simply impossible on the east coast. To remedy this you could perhaps measure latency before the test and compensate by giving more points as long as the latency persists. With the skill that I am trying to get dan 3 on, I cannot even score half of the points that I need to get ss rank, and I need to do it twice for some reason. Even if they were just made easier for all players, I think that mastering the skill 4 more times when compared to rank 1 should be enough proof that you're proficient with the skill.
  • EllisyaEllisya
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,325
    Posts: 485
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    edited December 10, 2017
    Sense, Determination, Experience. (And some sort of trick that people don't really know)

    Enough of these can break that wall of RNG, for real. People who have watched my Human Magnum Dan 3 Test were calling that I was depending on luck too much. I intend to miss for Urgent Shot sometimes so... I've been playing Mabinogi as archer since G1 and had not much issue with Dan 3 even though myself is human race. Buuuuuuuuuut, still required a lot of gold; about like 10? 14? tries I think. So it's not really 'impossible' just because of RNG/Luck. I'm really tired of these people who complain about 'RNG' yet they still buy bunch of RNG related stuffs, such as reforges, gachas, and enchants.

    If there's a problem then it's only that connection speed problem. Myself lives in CA so I cannot really say anything about it. Even with fast enough speed, I was kinda struggling with that RNG so I cannot imagine how bad it is for those who live far away or even outside of states. Making Dan Test a little easier than current sounds okay but not too much though. What they could do is adjusting some points, slightly, Just as they did to Defense Dan Test (they didn't give us much bonus points for left over HP when it first came out) or adding some bonus points for certain action/conditions. Extending time is just way too much for making it easier because even a minute or 30 sec can influence a lot of stuffs.

    Soooo, making Dan Test easy for extending, I would say no.
    For adjusting Dan Test's action/condition points, I would say yes.

    Most annoying thing for me was setting up hotkey over and over again....
    Greta
  • iMattxCiMattxC
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,075
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    edited February 6, 2018
    Greta wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure they made Dan Tests difficult for a good reason. It's because of people who would finish danning all skills within a week and woud be like "that's all?", so Nexon did some challenges to make people take more time to be done.

    Actually there are 36 advance-able skills, that means if you manage to do one every single day, and pass, it would take a minimum of 108 days. And that time frame doesn't include mastering the skill again.
  • IyasenuIyasenu
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,265
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    iMattxC wrote: »
    Greta wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure they made Dan Tests difficult for a good reason. It's because of people who would finish danning all skills within a week and woud be like "that's all?", so Nexon did some challenges to make people take more time to be done.

    Actually there are 36 advance-able skills, that means if you manage to do one every single day, and pass, it would take a minimum of 108 days. And that time frame doesn't include mastering the skill again.

    108?

    If you start at Rank 1, it takes five days to get to Dan 3, not three days.
    Dan 1 is one day, but Dan 2 and Dan 3 each take two days.

    It's ~180 days if you don't "pass-fail", miss, or skip any days.
  • ShouKShouK
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,735
    Posts: 824
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    So hoping to increase my ninja damage, I just took 2 shuriken charge dan 1 test. First try I had to quit after just inside for a few seconds because the lag is so horrible I can't even load up the skill. The second try, connection is as usual, but as usual for me is laggy as hell compared to those american players, and whoever in nexon team thinks putting gremlin and ogre in shuriken charge dan test is a good idea, I really want to slap him. They kept pinning me to walls because my skills won't load up fast.................I can't even load up kunai storm fast enough before they hit me............can only manage to get in 1 normal attack before I got hit...urgh now I remember why I stopped trying to dan my skills in the first place.

    Dan tests is not a test of skill, it's a test of whoever has the lowest ping.
    iMattxC
  • KagaKaga
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,070
    Posts: 615
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    edited December 13, 2017
    Honestly, so far I have been able to get 4/5 certificates (with 210 EU ping)
    Need to finish life, combat, alchemy and the stupid RNG-fest; Healing dan 2->3.

    It really does depend on ping and luck.
  • GiegueGiegue
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,765
    Posts: 214
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    edited December 13, 2017
    I recently did my Firebolt Dan 1. I passed after a few attempts with 9000 points after getting a little lucky with enemy AI.
    But as a European player, I felt the Latency, and I felt it hard. I don't think I'll clear Dan 3 any time soon due to the delay when loading skills, simply because I cannot load the skills fast enough to get the points required.
    I think the difficulty of the Dan Tests is fine, but the importance of near flawless Latency makes too much of an impact to the intended challenge, so I believe something needs a minor rework.
  • lceCreamlceCream
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,205
    Posts: 199
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    edited December 13, 2017
    Dan tests do need fixing but until then just don't do them. It's not really necessary and we steamrolled content even before dans. Only really must have dan is crisis

    Also I see some people say dan 3 firebolt is bad. Takes up too much mp for practically no damage increase
  • iMattxCiMattxC
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,075
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    Bumping this thread by mentioning I spent 300k today on 10 tries and only came as close as 4k points away. Thx for showing us east coasters love nexon.
  • iMattxCiMattxC
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    Failed magnum shot dan 3 twice more. Running to the bank because I ran out of gold.
  • iMattxCiMattxC
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    6 more times, I'm done for the day.
  • iMattxCiMattxC
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    4000/12000 this is with denagle and mtu set to 44. And I have to get 12000 twice.
  • SiodhanSiodhan
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,825
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    I know that feeling. I can get higher than that, but it's still a ridiculously far way off. A "you're never ever ever going to get this done" far way.
  • EkaterinEkaterin
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,360
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    As a player living on the East Coast, I experience frequent lag (skills take longer to load sometimes) and rubberbanding. If Nexon could somehow make the entire Dan test client-sided, it would solve this issue without the need for a difficulty adjustment.

    The Dan Test is a single-player instanced environment. It does not necessarily need to be managed as part of the open world. The only issue I see really is abuse/hacking (aside from having to actually implement it). Not sure how to crack that problem.
  • iMattxCiMattxC
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,075
    Posts: 64
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    edited February 6, 2018
    Ekaterin wrote: »
    As a player living on the East Coast, I experience frequent lag (skills take longer to load sometimes) and rubberbanding. If Nexon could somehow make the entire Dan test client-sided, it would solve this issue without the need for a difficulty adjustment.

    The Dan Test is a single-player instanced environment. It does not necessarily need to be managed as part of the open world. The only issue I see really is abuse/hacking (aside from having to actually implement it). Not sure how to crack that problem.

    You should try changing your mtu and denagle'ing if you haven't already. Just don't forget to change your mtu back to 1500 when you're done with the test. It probably won't fix the problem because the problem is the game but it does have an effect. https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Lag#Network-Side
  • iMattxCiMattxC
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,075
    Posts: 64
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    edited February 8, 2018
    I passed dan 3 crash shot test today, by rng luck and comcasts early morning low latency blessing. It's no magnum shot but yay I get to do it again. It took me more tries than I can count on 1 hand and it was over 500k to pass it once. But yay i get have to do it again.
  • AlignmentAlignment
    Mabinogi Rep: 720
    Posts: 19
    Member
    edited February 11, 2018
    Bethuar wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure every mabi player can agree that the dan 3 dan testing is almost impossible to do if you're lagging, let alone when the weapons can't keep up with the enemy.

    I think an easy fix for this would be to change the points to a lower score so that everyone has a chance to get the dan 3 and not just the best players with the best connection speed. I would lag a spec and then be down 10 seconds because of it or there would be a delay and the enemies would start numlocking me. At least if the score was lower so a SS for the dan it would be less stressful for everyone and people would still keep trying but be happier of it being slightly easier than how it is now.

    I find it humorous that people think the Dan tests are supposed to be beatable by all. Newsflash, not everyone is equal. If you want that Dan title you might have to work harder than someone else to get it. Go to ur local school/library to get some dank internet speeds and beat that bizniz.
    Hardmuscle
  • SiodhanSiodhan
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,825
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    Oh yeah. Let me move 100m across the street towards my local library and get 0.0000000000000000000000000001ms less delay towards the US from EU. I feel like a god now.

    IyasenuLadame
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,035
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    edited February 12, 2018
    Replying to the last post in this thread. Not the first post.
    Nothing short of upgrading your ISP; moving closer to California (or Nexon adding a closer server) will eliminate your High Ping. (High Ping isn't the only cause of lag, but in your case it's the dominating circumstance). As said at the end of the last drama debacle this topic created; in General; ~ You should focus on trying to get Nexon to create a secondary method for people with High Ping to pass the test (preferably a non-timed solution). ~ Moaning non-stop or blaming it on the game (or trolling me with the nasties) will never fix your High Ping. ~

    There's no sense executing everyone who understands this. ~ Including Nexon.
    Note: I am not against nerfing Dan tests. -- I never said this. -- but you need to consider whether or not we should have this debate every single time Nexon releases some type of content where timing player progress is a factor. Are you going to scream foul every time a clock is involved?

  • IyasenuIyasenu
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,265
    Posts: 2,887
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    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Siodhan wrote: »
    Oh yeah. Let me move 100m across the street towards my local library and get 0.0000000000000000000000000001ms less delay towards the US from EU. I feel like a god now.
    Nothing short of upgrading your ISP; moving closer to California (or Nexon adding a closer server) will eliminate your High Ping. (High Ping isn't the only cause of lag, but in your case it's the dominating circumstance). As said at the end of the last drama debacle this topic created; in General; ~ You should focus on trying to get Nexon to create a secondary method for people with High Ping to pass the test (preferably a non-timed solution). ~ Moaning non-stop or blaming it on the game (or trolling me with the nasties) will never fix your High Ping. ~

    There's no sense executing everyone who understands this. ~ Including Nexon.
    Note: I am not against nerfing Dan tests. -- I never said this. -- but you need to consider whether or not we should have this debate every single time Nexon releases some type of content where timing player progress is a factor. Are you going to scream foul every time a clock is involved?

    Per that "non-timed solution" suggestion, what would be thought about... altering the training method count caps?

    Like, currently for Dan 2 -> Dan 3 the training is:
    Pass an exam + 12.50 (0/2)
    Score an S rank or above in an exam + 12.50 (0/2)
    Score an SS rank or above in an exam +25.00 (0/2)
    Participate in the graduating ceremony +1.00 (0/1)

    What about changing it to:
    Pass an exam + 12.50 (0/8)
    Score an S rank or above in an exam + 12.50 (0/4)
    Score an SS rank or above in an exam +25.00 (0/2)
    Participate in the graduating ceremony +1.00 (0/1)

    That way, even lower ranks can eventually allow you to advance to the next Dan rank, just slower than getting SS. (8 days for A ranks only, 4 days for S ranks only, 2 for SS only).
    Then, the only thing to worry about would be to get a passing score.
    It'd get rid of the "pass-fail" situations we currently can get (i.e. Getting A/S ranks on the Dan 2 -> 3 tests), while still rewarding (or at least not punishing) the players who go for the best rank possible.

    That's one possible solution, even if that won't change the tests themselves very much.
    Scoring enough points for an A rank should be a much easier goal for those even with overseas connections, too.
    Even if it would still be a challenge in such a case, it would be doable, with the right tactics.
    HardmuscleGiegue