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Simple Elf Tweaks (Magic)

LifeguardLifeguard
Mabinogi Rep: 420
Posts: 9
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in Feedback and Suggestions
So elves are suppose to be the best class for both magic and archery. While they are certainly the best archers, they really don't differ from either giants or humans in terms of magic.

The two changes I propose are to final shot and elven magic missile.

For final shot allow it to be used with wands/staffs. Simply just the same concept as it is for bows. Increase casting speed, give +5 cc (mostly for staff), and keep the teleportation the same.

As for elven magic missile, giants got their race ability buffed so they can use it outside of trans so why not for elves too? In addition, this ability does very little damage with a wand and doesn't seem to scale with anything magic related. At r1 elven magic missile, with a wand, and 350 magic attack I do 100-400 damage max charge.

If not for either of these easy changes, please just do something unique for elf mages? I'm literally not anything different than humans or giants when it comes to magic.

If neither of these, again, then remove the the words saying that elves " has advantages in Magic and Archery " and just say archery.
  1. Is this a good idea?11 votes
    1. Yes
       18% (2 votes)
    2. No
       18% (2 votes)
    3. Just remove elves from the game
       64% (7 votes)

Comments

  • lceCreamlceCream
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,205
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    Other than slightly higher mana and int and less mp for ice spear,
    elves move faster which is useful for spellwalk :D
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,135
    Posts: 2,554
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    Lifeguard wrote: »
    So elves are suppose to be the best class for both magic and archery.
    Where does it say this anywhere? Who fed you this fable?
    Lifeguard wrote: »
    I'm literally not anything different than humans or giants when it comes to magic.
    Who said you were supposed to be better or different?

    You think because you run faster and have pointed ears, you should be treated differently? :trollface:

  • LifeguardLifeguard
    Mabinogi Rep: 420
    Posts: 9
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Lifeguard wrote: »
    So elves are suppose to be the best class for both magic and archery.
    Where does it say this anywhere? Who fed you this fable?
    Lifeguard wrote: »
    I'm literally not anything different than humans or giants when it comes to magic.
    Who said you were supposed to be better or different?

    You think because you run faster and have pointed ears, you should be treated differently? :trollface:

    Literally in the character creation menu.

    Even disregarding the idea of having final shot apply for magic, elven magic missile should scale with magic attack and be usable without trans in some fashion (like the giants can). Literally 200~ damage max at r1.
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,135
    Posts: 2,554
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    edited March 12, 2018
    Lifeguard wrote: »
    Even disregarding the idea of having final shot apply for magic, elven magic missile should scale with magic attack and be usable without trans in some fashion (like the giants can). Literally 200~ damage max at r1.
    Elven Magic Missile is granted by your transformation (Falcon). I don't know what you're smoking, but you shouldn't be able to use it at any other time. Giants cannot use their transformation skill outside of transformation (Wind Guard is not a Beast Transformation skill).
    U2EitnG.jpg
    The last poll option made me giggle (it's so tempting lmao! ~ I'm kidding). ~ Being "the same" as every other mage isn't as bad as it sounds. :smirk:
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,855
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    How about a mana drain skill? Like Life Drain, but you drain mana from mobs to replenish your own and hinder their magic.
  • LifeguardLifeguard
    Mabinogi Rep: 420
    Posts: 9
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Lifeguard wrote: »
    Even disregarding the idea of having final shot apply for magic, elven magic missile should scale with magic attack and be usable without trans in some fashion (like the giants can). Literally 200~ damage max at r1.
    Elven Magic Missile is granted by your transformation (Falcon). I don't know what you're smoking, but you shouldn't be able to use it at any other time. Giants cannot use their transformation skill outside of transformation (Wind Guard is not a Beast Transformation skill).
    U2EitnG.jpg
    The last poll option made me giggle (it's so tempting lmao! ~ I'm kidding). ~ Being "the same" as every other mage isn't as bad as it sounds. :smirk:

    They changed it so giants can use full swing during wind guard during the giant renewal.

    https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Giant_Full_Swing
    Hardmuscle
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,135
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    edited March 12, 2018
    Lifeguard wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Lifeguard wrote: »
    Even disregarding the idea of having final shot apply for magic, elven magic missile should scale with magic attack and be usable without trans in some fashion (like the giants can). Literally 200~ damage max at r1.
    Elven Magic Missile is granted by your transformation (Falcon). I don't know what you're smoking, but you shouldn't be able to use it at any other time. Giants cannot use their transformation skill outside of transformation (Wind Guard is not a Beast Transformation skill).
    U2EitnG.jpg
    The last poll option made me giggle (it's so tempting lmao! ~ I'm kidding). ~ Being "the same" as every other mage isn't as bad as it sounds. :smirk:

    They changed it so giants can use full swing during wind guard during the giant renewal.

    https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Giant_Full_Swing

    Oh wow. -- I read that wrong, and I have a giant too. -- (As you can see, I play him very little. Despite my 10 years "wasted" on this game). What I don't see however is the relevance to the magic increase you are seeking. One of undeserved consequence built from an episode of misreading (much like I did a moment ago). It doesn't say anywhere that anyone is expected to be superior to someone else. I cannot find a thing like that in creation, but I'll keep staring at it in case it jumps out and bites me at some point along the way.. lol..

  • LifeguardLifeguard
    Mabinogi Rep: 420
    Posts: 9
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Lifeguard wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Lifeguard wrote: »
    Even disregarding the idea of having final shot apply for magic, elven magic missile should scale with magic attack and be usable without trans in some fashion (like the giants can). Literally 200~ damage max at r1.
    Elven Magic Missile is granted by your transformation (Falcon). I don't know what you're smoking, but you shouldn't be able to use it at any other time. Giants cannot use their transformation skill outside of transformation (Wind Guard is not a Beast Transformation skill).
    U2EitnG.jpg
    The last poll option made me giggle (it's so tempting lmao! ~ I'm kidding). ~ Being "the same" as every other mage isn't as bad as it sounds. :smirk:

    They changed it so giants can use full swing during wind guard during the giant renewal.

    https://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Giant_Full_Swing

    Oh wow. -- I read that wrong, and I have a giant too. -- (As you can see, I play him very little. Despite my 10 years "wasted" on this game). What I don't see however is the relevance to the magic increase you are seeking. One of undeserved consequence built from an episode of misreading (much like I did a moment ago). It doesn't say anywhere that anyone is expected to be superior to someone else. I cannot find a thing like that in creation, but I'll keep staring at it in case it jumps out and bites me at some point along the way.. lol..

    In your picture it literally says "Specialized in archery and magic"
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,135
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    Lifeguard wrote: »
    In your picture it literally says "Specialized in archery and magic"
    yc4KI1D.png
    qEA6ond.png

  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,580
    Posts: 943
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    Magic missile should probably get buffed.
    But no to the final shot thing. Too Op
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,290
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    edited March 13, 2018
    I would say by all means they are intended to superior in magic, but I don't think it is necessary. I mean, of course, archery on elves is so much better than humans by a really high margin, while magic isn't, but as a whole, elves are in a great place.

    Of course, since nothing hurts anyone now that isn't strictly Rabbie Phantasm Mobs, I am pretty apathetic to being compensated for higher magic abilities.

    But yes, Elven Magic Missile is the most useless combat skill in the game. Extremely low damage with poor crowd control and a far too long casting time.
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,135
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    edited March 13, 2018
    I would say by all means they are intended to superior in magic,
    All skill arguments aside; there is nothing indicating or even remotely suggesting elves are to be "superior" at anything. To specialize in a skill is not to be the best most superior user of said skill. The official definition of these words are literally in my last post. They have two completely separate meanings. All characters specialize in something and none of them are the best at it. -0- Using the logic being applied to insist elves are superior in magic, we could also say the same for any human who chooses to play dark knight. -- but not because this changes their character in any other way outside of increasing the INT stat some. -- High INT doesn't mean master of magic, superior to everyone else in the game.

    --because high INT can be attained and capped by anyone.

    This thread came here with the intention of lifting elves up and over everyone else in the game, because they're under the false impression that an elf is to be the absolute best and most powerful player they can create. ~ I don't care how many trolls you folks pile on, or how many guild members you recruit to file against me; this line of thinking is wrong.


    LadameVeylaineBlissfulkill
  • GretaGreta
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    edited March 13, 2018
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    --because high INT can be attained and capped by anyone.

    Honestly, INT is easiest stat to cap.

    P.S: Sorry, but i had to pick 3rd poll option, it was so ridiculous that i couldn't resist lmao.
    HardmuscleYangKoete
  • SherriSherri
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    Posts: 2,746
    Member
    AH don't delete me from the game pls!
    Also I love the ideas for elf magic. I'd like to be better at magic, I use it waaaaaaaaaay more than archery.
    VeylaineHardmuscle
  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,855
    Posts: 790
    Member
    1) Remove bolt spells from game
    2) Give Elves +100 max mana at character creation, but less mana from skills later on.
    3) Make elves tiny, like imps.
    4) OR, replace elves with imps.
    5) OR, have elves be spirits that only have 1 stat bar: Mana. Their health, mana, and stamina all drain the single mana bar.
    Blissfulkill
  • LifeguardLifeguard
    Mabinogi Rep: 420
    Posts: 9
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    I would say by all means they are intended to superior in magic,
    All skill arguments aside; there is nothing indicating or even remotely suggesting elves are to be "superior" at anything. To specialize in a skill is not to be the best most superior user of said skill. The official definition of these words are literally in my last post. They have two completely separate meanings. All characters specialize in something and none of them are the best at it. -0- Using the logic being applied to insist elves are superior in magic, we could also say the same for any human who chooses to play dark knight. -- but not because this changes their character in any other way outside of increasing the INT stat some. -- High INT doesn't mean master of magic, superior to everyone else in the game.

    --because high INT can be attained and capped by anyone.

    This thread came here with the intention of lifting elves up and over everyone else in the game, because they're under the false impression that an elf is to be the absolute best and most powerful player they can create. ~ I don't care how many trolls you folks pile on, or how many guild members you recruit to file against me; this line of thinking is wrong.


    Not the "absolute best and most powerful player they can create" but that they should be the best at their niche which is, as shown in the character creation menu, suppose to be magic and archery.

    They are by far the worst melee class. This is due to their lack of strength, lack of strength skills, and the strength skills they do have just doing less percentage damage (like WM which at dan 3 does 80% less damage than humans or giants). Not to even mention when wearing heavy armor elves get 50% dex reduction at any rank. In addition, most dual classes use str which compounds the problem.

    All I want is for elves to have compensation for not having those abilities and simple way of doing that would be to update final shot and elven magic missile to be better for magic.

    Otherwise elf mages aren't any different than giants or humans. Literally the same with no difference
    (Reduced mana cost for Icespear amounts to nothing)

    For specifics here is what I propose
    Elven Magic Missile
    -Scale with Magic attack when using Wands
    -Allow it be used out of trans for 6x the cool down (1 minute)
    -Allow it to be used with any wand/staff

    Final Shot
    -Allow it to be used with a staff/wand and give it +5 cc when doing this
    -Give an increase in casting speed or magic damage (Idk how much but a little would be nice)
    -Allow use of all magic abilities and the teleport

    I promise this isn't something ridiculous.
    I just want to be able to do something else besides magnum spam (and even that misses most of the time)
    Twelie
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,290
    Posts: 2,791
    Member
    edited March 13, 2018
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    I would say by all means they are intended to superior in magic,
    All skill arguments aside; there is nothing indicating or even remotely suggesting elves are to be "superior" at anything. To specialize in a skill is not to be the best most superior user of said skill. The official definition of these words are literally in my last post. They have two completely separate meanings. All characters specialize in something and none of them are the best at it. -0- Using the logic being applied to insist elves are superior in magic, we could also say the same for any human who chooses to play dark knight. -- but not because this changes their character in any other way outside of increasing the INT stat some. -- High INT doesn't mean master of magic, superior to everyone else in the game.

    --because high INT can be attained and capped by anyone.

    This thread came here with the intention of lifting elves up and over everyone else in the game, because they're under the false impression that an elf is to be the absolute best and most powerful player they can create. ~ I don't care how many trolls you folks pile on, or how many guild members you recruit to file against me; this line of thinking is wrong.


    You are correct, but I believe it is just connotation that confuses the terms, as why would one specialize if they have not the natural aptitude for it? (You have to account for word misusage.) It reflects in their stats and the rather miniscule benefit of casting time for Ice Spear, it seems. I argue on the assumed notion that it is intended to be, to which I then argue why it isn't necessary in this day and age

    While you argued that the idea they have of the intent isn't true anyway. I call it a double whammy, essentially. To iron out all the arguments so we don't spend time on one debatable facet of what the original developers intended.

    As an "endgame" elf, we are already pretty freaking overpowered. The myth needs to die, and I blame Julie and unskilled, impatient players. So we have one useless transformation skill in the form of Elven Magic Missile. Big whup. I can still use chains, I can archery far better than any human can, etc.

    Assuming Elves were originally intended for this purpose, what even is the point? It isn't needed. At all. Magic in itself is a consistently viable skillset.

    Edit: Or not, my part of the argument got cut off, so I suppose the above summates my views. I don't need this. Elves don't need this. Become a better player.
    Hardmuscle
  • LifeguardLifeguard
    Mabinogi Rep: 420
    Posts: 9
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    I would say by all means they are intended to superior in magic,
    All skill arguments aside; there is nothing indicating or even remotely suggesting elves are to be "superior" at anything. To specialize in a skill is not to be the best most superior user of said skill. The official definition of these words are literally in my last post. They have two completely separate meanings. All characters specialize in something and none of them are the best at it. -0- Using the logic being applied to insist elves are superior in magic, we could also say the same for any human who chooses to play dark knight. -- but not because this changes their character in any other way outside of increasing the INT stat some. -- High INT doesn't mean master of magic, superior to everyone else in the game.

    --because high INT can be attained and capped by anyone.

    This thread came here with the intention of lifting elves up and over everyone else in the game, because they're under the false impression that an elf is to be the absolute best and most powerful player they can create. ~ I don't care how many trolls you folks pile on, or how many guild members you recruit to file against me; this line of thinking is wrong.


    You are correct, but I believe it is just connotation that confuses the terms, as why would one specialize if they have not the natural aptitude for it? (You have to account for word misusage.) It reflects in their stats and the rather miniscule benefit of casting time for Ice Spear, it seems. I argue on the assumed notion that it is intended to be, to which I then argue why it isn't necessary in this day and age

    While you argued that the idea they have of the intent isn't true anyway. I call it a double whammy, essentially. To iron out all the arguments so we don't spend time on one debatable facet of what the original developers intended.

    As an "endgame" elf, we are already pretty freaking overpowered. The myth needs to die, and I blame Julie and unskilled, impatient players. So we have one useless transformation skill in the form of Elven Magic Missile. Big whup. I can still use chains, I can archery far better than any human can, etc.

    Assuming Elves were originally intended for this purpose, what even is the point? It isn't needed. At all. Magic in itself is a consistently viable skillset.

    Edit: Or not, my part of the argument got cut off, so I suppose the above summates my views. I don't need this. Elves don't need this. Become a better player.

    You mean buy more reforges (cough cough). Sure you can do tons of damage as an archer, after you spend an absolute absurd amount of money on reforges, combo cards, and god knows what else (crystal deer). Please tell me what the damage difference is if you magnum regularly compared to when you take off all of you gear and shoot a magnum with a short bow. It is this pay gap in how much it costs to be a "better player" that has shredded the player base.

    Besides final shot is significantly worse than final hit. This is apparent in the markets in mabinogi. If someone got a final shot reforge they would immediately try for something else.

    But this isn't a chat about archery. This is about elf magic skills which are specifically said to be specialized just like archery is. The point I'm making is that magic for elves should be as different as archery is from the other races.
  • KagaKaga
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,170
    Posts: 617
    Member
    edited March 14, 2018
    Magic is way more fun to use than spamming magnum.
    Oh yeah.. and you don't have to spend a fortune to make it (magic) relevant.

    Im not a fan of archery considering I have 360 ping and I don't want to spend a lot of money just for a skill spam.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,290
    Posts: 2,791
    Member
    Lifeguard wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    I would say by all means they are intended to superior in magic,
    All skill arguments aside; there is nothing indicating or even remotely suggesting elves are to be "superior" at anything. To specialize in a skill is not to be the best most superior user of said skill. The official definition of these words are literally in my last post. They have two completely separate meanings. All characters specialize in something and none of them are the best at it. -0- Using the logic being applied to insist elves are superior in magic, we could also say the same for any human who chooses to play dark knight. -- but not because this changes their character in any other way outside of increasing the INT stat some. -- High INT doesn't mean master of magic, superior to everyone else in the game.

    --because high INT can be attained and capped by anyone.

    This thread came here with the intention of lifting elves up and over everyone else in the game, because they're under the false impression that an elf is to be the absolute best and most powerful player they can create. ~ I don't care how many trolls you folks pile on, or how many guild members you recruit to file against me; this line of thinking is wrong.


    You are correct, but I believe it is just connotation that confuses the terms, as why would one specialize if they have not the natural aptitude for it? (You have to account for word misusage.) It reflects in their stats and the rather miniscule benefit of casting time for Ice Spear, it seems. I argue on the assumed notion that it is intended to be, to which I then argue why it isn't necessary in this day and age

    While you argued that the idea they have of the intent isn't true anyway. I call it a double whammy, essentially. To iron out all the arguments so we don't spend time on one debatable facet of what the original developers intended.

    As an "endgame" elf, we are already pretty freaking overpowered. The myth needs to die, and I blame Julie and unskilled, impatient players. So we have one useless transformation skill in the form of Elven Magic Missile. Big whup. I can still use chains, I can archery far better than any human can, etc.

    Assuming Elves were originally intended for this purpose, what even is the point? It isn't needed. At all. Magic in itself is a consistently viable skillset.

    Edit: Or not, my part of the argument got cut off, so I suppose the above summates my views. I don't need this. Elves don't need this. Become a better player.

    You mean buy more reforges (cough cough). Sure you can do tons of damage as an archer, after you spend an absolute absurd amount of money on reforges, combo cards, and god knows what else (crystal deer). Please tell me what the damage difference is if you magnum regularly compared to when you take off all of you gear and shoot a magnum with a short bow. It is this pay gap in how much it costs to be a "better player" that has shredded the player base.

    Besides final shot is significantly worse than final hit. This is apparent in the markets in mabinogi. If someone got a final shot reforge they would immediately try for something else.

    But this isn't a chat about archery. This is about elf magic skills which are specifically said to be specialized just like archery is. The point I'm making is that magic for elves should be as different as archery is from the other races.

    While I am against arguing of any new talent as a panacea for race deficiencies, archery doesn't genuinely seem that bad to me in terms of DPS or utility. Yes, there is a bit too much emphasis on reforges, but it is quite feasible without such gear in nearly every content. These days, spamming Magnum is significantly easier to do, and is largely comparable to final hit with Shine of Eweca, especially since knockback isn't damaging my DPS with the insane aim speed boost.

    Archery is not as terrible without reforges, and is quite usable. There is just an absurdly large difference in DPS, but this isn't a competition. I am not facing reforged players in a pay2win MOBA. Comparative differences mean less here then they do in say, Combat Arms or Battlefront 2.

    I don't see the need for this, though it would be nice. I suppose I misread your intent, on just wishing for consistency and truthful towards those who chose Elf, which I can agree with. I suppose for now, I am ambivalent with how powerful elves are.
    OpalthiraHardmuscle