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REMOVE CHAIN AS A BEGINNER TALENT DURING REBIRTH

ChakylinChakylin
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in Feedback and Suggestions
I think we can all agree, this talent is not for beginners. Not only do you need to complete a story line, you have to make sure you're finished with g20 (which isn't offered to characters under level 500) and can hold your own in the Baltane missions to work on getting Raging Spike and Bachram Explosion. On top of that, beginners won't exactly be able to solo Coill Abyss and farm hornets/ancients for the crystals needed for Spinning Slasher. I'm worried about the (few) new players we get getting discouraged when they pick this as their first talent. Not only that, it makes Chain seem easier than other talents like Fighter and Archery, both of which are suitable to new players and do not require main storyline completion.
ShadydayzJazmynYokkaichiYangKoeteGretaGodrickTBPip-BoyErorservImaizumiMediaKleptoand 10 others.

Comments

  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
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    Whether or not these things are true... how do they affect your game play? It's not as though you're being forced to begin as Chain Slasher, and until you're a total level of 1000 you can rebirth (change your talent) every single day. ~ I don't see the emergency here. :|

    FayeKaiba
  • GandorEUGandorEU
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    edited December 21, 2017
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Whether or not these things are true... how do they affect your game play? It's not as though you're being forced to begin as Chain Slasher, and until you're a total level of 1000 you can rebirth (change your talent) every single day. ~ I don't see the emergency here. :|

    You think from perspective of long time player that knows the game well , now try to put yourself in mind-frame of completely new player that has no idea about this game.How he or she will feel about Mabinogi if they start playing this game with such "advanced" class? the first impression they will get will be bad and as result they will end up dropping the game most likely :(
    YangKoeteGoldtiger01ImaizumiTheNyanCatSherriBehelitSiniavokajaSphyra21
  • YangKoeteYangKoete
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    edited December 21, 2017
    Most newbies I know see Ninja and go;"WOW! THAT SOUNDS AWESOME!" and probably do the same with Chain Slash.

    If anything, they should make some classes available only at a specific cumulative level. Stuff like Mercantile, Construct Alchemist, Dual Guns, Puppetry and Chain Slash seem like they shouldn't be available for beginners.
    Goldtiger01XxBearslayerxXErorservSherriSiniavokajaSphyra21offwithyourheads
  • TNinjaTNinja
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    The talent itself isn't even great as a starting point either. It's a largely disruptive talent which most of the time screws over someone, making it bad for team play, and the knockdown rules are a bit more complicated than other talent. On the same levels as guns and ninjas, I would say.
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
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    edited December 21, 2017
    @GandorEU ~ No. ~ I think from the perspective of someone who knows they can change their talent every day until they are total level 1000. ~ Old school would have us waiting 3 weeks to make this change. Additionally, for the purpose of collecting crystal hints, I made several new characters for this talent and enjoyed all of it. It's never good to assume everyone falls into the same group you do or to put people into groups.

    A line of text perhaps, telling users it's an intermediate talent, but I don't see a reason to bar new players from making it their first choice.

    Even if Nexon did remove this; a new player would be able to make it their talent of choice 24 hours after their first rebirth. (Futile Concern).

  • THICCthighssavelivesTHICCthighssavelives
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    100% agree with Chakylin, even though it does not "affect my gameplay." You have to think about the new player's experience and first impressions and not just think about yourself.
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
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    edited December 21, 2017
    Again. "I" said nothing about affected gameplay. Mine or theirs. ~ If the user could not change their talent (access rebirth) for three long weeks (like it used to be, back in the day); this thread would have legs to stand on. But that's not the case here. ~ New players can effectively change their non-ace talent every 24 hours (for free). ~ No matter who agrees with who about what; that is a fact you can't shake off like dead leaves.

  • ZuomoZuomo
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    As hardmuscle said, you get rebirths daily, and have your hand held in the process of both choosing a talent and rebirthing as a new player. People will still choose it because it's new, even if you hid it away behind all other talents, they'd probably choose it, with how it's all around them. You'll notice that with most games is, as soon as a new class comes out, everyone is playing it. The ones that don't like it can simply rebirth. Even if they are over 1k, it's only a week nowadays.

    Now. I made a whole new character to get back into mabi with. Building it from 0 with no help from anything. I've personally had a fun time with chain slash, it's not a hard talent to use and does decent damage. I can't get half the skills, yeah, but it gives me something else to work towards at least.

    In the end moving the talent just seems unnecessary at this point, it doesn't make the game unplayable, nor take the fun away from it. The only reason I say to move it is because I'd prefer the beginner talent page to be just basic classes (Archer, mage, close combat, maybe fighter) To me the beauty of mabi was always that you can choose whatever you want, and you worked with it.
    HardmuscleYellowBin
  • lceCreamlceCream
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    edited December 21, 2017
    Wow. You make it sound like the class is unplayable by newbs. So what if some skills are locked? The core skills are still there. I'm too lazy to unlock skills and I still have a great time with chain.
    The thing is chain IS BETTER than archery and fighter. The high skill % and OP AOE and single target is insane. Also cutthroat is 100+ max damage.

    The only bad thing about chain is that newbs play it and then switch to other talents and wonder why they're all so weak
    Blissfulkill
  • Lucious_Loracio1Lucious_Loracio1
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    This is actually a problem with a lot of what DEVcat does. They release something new, make it grossly overpowered compared to some earlier talents, then forget to even balance the talents that came before accordingly. Making the new talent much more sought after. Mabi these days is just, "Activate skill, click area, watch everything die." Rinse and repeat.

    Why bother playing the Warrior talent when you can get better (and faster) results playing as a Chain Slasher?

    Fix your game DEV.
    YangKoeteSheenaBlissfulkillImaizumiskpkionSherriRihoshiSiniavokajaTHICCthighssavelives
  • lceCreamlceCream
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,205
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    edited December 21, 2017
    This is actually a problem with a lot of what DEVcat does. They release something new, make it grossly overpowered compared to some earlier talents, then forget to even balance the talents that came before accordingly. Making the new talent much more sought after. Mabi these days is just, "Activate skill, click area, watch everything die." Rinse and repeat.

    Why bother playing the Warrior talent when you can get better (and faster) results playing as a Chain Slasher?

    Fix your game DEV.

    I see warriors and mages all the time. Archers and alchemists, however... they're extinct
    YangKoete
  • FayeKaibaFayeKaiba
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    This is actually a problem with a lot of what DEVcat does. They release something new, make it grossly overpowered compared to some earlier talents, then forget to even balance the talents that came before accordingly. Making the new talent much more sought after. Mabi these days is just, "Activate skill, click area, watch everything die." Rinse and repeat.

    Why bother playing the Warrior talent when you can get better (and faster) results playing as a Chain Slasher?

    Fix your game DEV.

    They don't need to fix their game because having chain slash as a beginning talent isn't breaking the game.


    @Thread - What if a new player just wants to try out chainslash for 24 hours before using their daily rebirth to go into another class? Removing this option is completely stupid and locks the player into not being able to try out every class. That is one thing that sets Mabi apart from ALL MMO's, there is no class lock, there is no "get to lv 100 and you can now access this class" You have the options to do what you want and when you want. Limiting the player to what they can and can't do would make a player feel sided and might make them second doubt continuing to play.
    LeineiM0rnedil
  • ChakylinChakylin
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    edited December 22, 2017
    I don't agree with having talents behind a level wall. I'm also not saying it shouldn't be a talent beginners can choose. I think it needs to be taken off the beginner tab. However, I think I made some valid points that it can discourage new players, especially because of the fact that you need to have generations done to fully utilize it. Yeah they can rb in 24 hours, but I know personally, I'd be pretty bummed if something that looked so cool wasn't available for me to fully use when the game is spoon-feeding it to me to try out.

    Obviously, chain is better than a lot of older talents. No one was saying its not. I'm just pointing out that by labeling it a beginner talent, they're claiming its significantly easier than other talents (which it obviously isn't since there are plenty of vets that don't have the skill yet). They're also comparing it to Ninja and CC, which are both super easy.
    GretaJazmyn
  • NegumikoNegumiko
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    I don't see the problem with any new player starting with chain slash. the story for it is long but was very easy to do. you don't have to learn all the advanced chain skills all at once. there are many mage skills that require similar requirements to learn high level skills, the 2nd dorcha crystal is basically the new 2nd page of icespear cause of low drop rates and being expensive on the player market. coil abyss passes can't be traded and are rare drops in shadow missions which would encourage players to play shadow missions and level more. the 3rd dorcha crystal could encourage players to use their fishing skill which mostly improves stamina and will. new players should be free to start with any talent they want and if it doesn't work out they can always rebirth the next day and try something else. even with just the skills that are easy to get you can still fight with the chain slash just fine.
    YellowBin
  • ChakylinChakylin
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    edited December 23, 2017
    Iunno, I see a lot more negatives than positives about it. As someone who genuinely follows the story, it bothers me that you'd be thrown in and the Aces won't make much sense either.

    Also, mage isn't listed as a beginner talent. I agree with what you say but that kind of further proves my point.
    GretaSherri
  • JazmynJazmyn
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    edited December 23, 2017
    lceCream wrote: »
    This is actually a problem with a lot of what DEVcat does. They release something new, make it grossly overpowered compared to some earlier talents, then forget to even balance the talents that came before accordingly. Making the new talent much more sought after. Mabi these days is just, "Activate skill, click area, watch everything die." Rinse and repeat.

    Why bother playing the Warrior talent when you can get better (and faster) results playing as a Chain Slasher?

    Fix your game DEV.

    I see warriors and mages all the time. Archers and alchemists, however... they're extinct

    I recently became grandmaster archer and Im weak when it comes to surviving. And alchemy is ruined, on a different character I am unable to advance past alchemy mastery rank D due to being unable to make crystals, so thats why you dont see alchemists.

    (How long has it been since they made making crystals impossible?)

    They honestly need to fix old talents before releasing new ones. That being said, I enjoy chain slash skills, but I will be stuck without some due to my choice in starting as an archer and having no str and defense.
  • EllisyaEllisya
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    Let them play whatever they want to try.
    Either way there aren't that many new players after all.....
  • lceCreamlceCream
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    Chakylin wrote: »
    I don't agree with having talents behind a level wall. I'm also not saying it shouldn't be a talent beginners can choose. I think it needs to be taken off the beginner tab. However, I think I made some valid points that it can discourage new players, especially because of the fact that you need to have generations done to fully utilize it. Yeah they can rb in 24 hours, but I know personally, I'd be pretty bummed if something that looked so cool wasn't available for me to fully use when the game is spoon-feeding it to me to try out.

    Obviously, chain is better than a lot of older talents. No one was saying its not. I'm just pointing out that by labeling it a beginner talent, they're claiming its significantly easier than other talents (which it obviously isn't since there are plenty of vets that don't have the skill yet). They're also comparing it to Ninja and CC, which are both super easy.

    Why are you so fixated on having all the skills?
    It's recommended for beginners because it requires no skill to play since it's so powerful even without getting all the skills. Also it's cool
    If anything, having the rest of the skills locked gives the character progression and something to work towards besides stat grinding.
  • XxBearslayerxXXxBearslayerxX
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    lceCream wrote: »
    This is actually a problem with a lot of what DEVcat does. They release something new, make it grossly overpowered compared to some earlier talents, then forget to even balance the talents that came before accordingly. Making the new talent much more sought after. Mabi these days is just, "Activate skill, click area, watch everything die." Rinse and repeat.

    Why bother playing the Warrior talent when you can get better (and faster) results playing as a Chain Slasher?

    Fix your game DEV.

    I see warriors and mages all the time. Archers and alchemists, however... they're extinct

    Me: Warrior/Alchemist/Chainslasher
  • GretaGreta
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    lceCream wrote: »
    I see warriors and mages all the time. Archers and alchemists, however... they're extinct

    That's because Archery and Alchemy needs revamp really bad. Like seriously, you still get requirements to make crystals, which most of them are useless now and other very irrelevant skills. Archery is weak/broke talent as well...
This discussion has been closed.