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Closed REMOVE CHAIN AS A BEGINNER TALENT DURING REBIRTH
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I have surveyed the general newbie populace and found that they generally think the talent is fun. But, this is not the point I want to make...
There are a couple of problems here:
1. You can attempt g19 (and thus g20 by extension upon completing g19) starting from lvl 20, according to this source: "You may start Generation 19 after reaching level 20, but it is suggested to do the other Mainstream Quests to understand the story more."
2. The Baltane missions seem to also have a similar setup to the "Shadow Mission" layout in that they also seem to scale in accordance with a player's cumulative level. I could be wrong here, but I am going by what I read from players above 1000 and compared their experiences to my own as a player under 1000.
I am going to guess that you are making this point on basis of an assumption, which seems to be that all beginners lack the power to either pass Coill Abyss or the savvy/marketing abilities to eventually acquire enough gold to buy those particular crystal (respectively selling at 1,000,000 and ~650,000 gold on Tarlach server, at least -- by the way, I was able to get through Coill Abyss and I know some people more than double my level that still cannot complete it). Some of this just boils down to actual skill and savviness as a player rather than just levels.
I will agree that there are some beginners that cannot do either of these things, but those particular beginners usually are the ones that never took the time to train their skills, gather enough AP for the skills they plan to use, or do any of the previous mainstream quests that ultimately help them fight tougher enemies.
I have no idea where your worry comes from, but your concerns seem based upon a subjective interpretation of what you see as difficult. As previous players here have stated, some people that find the talent difficult to use will simply avoid using it (temporarily, maybe) until they figure themselves ready to attempt the talent once more. Being able to rebirth into a new active talent on the daily basis fixes this problem.
Long story short: if a player gets discouraged overall because one out of twenty talents proves too difficult for them to either acquire skills within or train, then they probably should stop playing this game entirely and move on.
A decent portion of Chain Slash Talent skills do not require completion of anything except the side-story and equipping a Chain blade.
Placing a few select skills behind certain challenges seems to be a strategy used by the developers to give these newer players incentive to get stronger and pursue a few goals.
In any case, labeling something a "beginner" talent does not necessarily equate to something being "easier." The word "begin" means "to start" and they are simply saying that Chain Blade is a great place to start as a talent considering its usability as a Dex/Luck focused talent (not like archery as it goes without the complications of missing shots and needing backup strategies/talents/weapons for when enemies get too close).
I agree with them, if this is the case.
Not only do they learn the basics automatically; they can't choose not to. (Gone are the days of making a new player without combat skills).
Nexon may move it to another tab after the hype starts to go down but new skills will always be flaunted.
Also Im a giant main and the only thing I have found good about getting this skill set unlocked is the full recovery that happens no matter fighting style can make game slightly easier maybe.
It's incomplete and all, but there are two things I want to point out:
1) AP costs
2) Max damage growth from stats
An elf going into close combat and grabbing a mace will get nearly double the stat damage growth at almost half the AP cost than if they went into just chain slash. The issue with dual stat talents is that the skills give very little stat points to boost weapon damage in comparison to single stat weapons, and this talent is especially bad for new players because basic utility AoE skills are locked behind a quest that no new player can complete. Sure they could branch out a little (and they should!), but they will have spent possibly 600 levels in a talent to gain maybe 10 points of max damage on a weapon and gain not much for other talents. It's laughable and pathetic.
From what I can gather, Nexon just blindly throws any new talent into this beginner tab without thinking at all. IF SEPARATING NEW TALENTS FROM OLD IS SOMETHING YOU WANT TO DO, MAKE A DEDICATED TAB CALLED "NEW" INSTEAD OF MISLEADING PRECIOUS NEW PLAYERS INTO SOMETHING THEY CANNOT PROGRESS WELL WITH LONG-TERM.
From what I recall, new tutorial teaches smash, defense, counter, windmill, and combat mastery right? Only CM and counter will contribute to chain slash's max attack so let's just add those in for you. 26 dex and 13 max from CM will result in 26 additional max attack for chain slash combined. That's now 89 max attack for 3 thousand AP, versus 109 for 1.6 thousand AP.
My point that the AP cost is waaay too high for your stat return in the weapon is still there.
Also, so long as we are considering beginners, I don't think assuming numbers like 1.6k AP is appropriate. It is possible to reach that number while under cumulative 1000 but by that point it shouldn't matter what the game is recommending as a starting talent. I think the stat gain from leveling up and being in the right talent is the more important consideration for the actual beginners.
And through that we find what's truly important here- not if it's possible, but if it's helpful. And in the long run, you really should focus on talents that provide what would be necessary for proper usage of Chainslash, especially considering its stat combination. It's not like basic close combat where that's mostly what you'd need for building your strength. Chain will not efficiently grow with you despite rewarding the stats necessary for strengthened usage at a low boost. Hell, if you want to, focus archery/puppetry primarily with chainslash on the side. Just don't make it your primary while you're growing.
Also, final note, choosing a talent with skills locked behind certain requirements and elongated quests is never a good idea for a starter talent- the same goes for fighter. I'd rather have a talent where the skills are quite easy to obtain to the point I can get them with a week's work and have all I need to level up rather than having to perform ludicrous missions to obtain them all before I can even power them up with AP (there's a lot of bitterness and experience from fighter here). That's all, disagree or agree, this is my stance.
There's also weapon damage, the skill % and ease of use
Chain sweep alone makes the skill set worth while. MASSIVE AOE and 680%
I tried using r1 kunai storm/crash shot/wm after getting used to chain sweep and it was pathetic
*Talents (while there and useful and forced) are not a requirement to learn skills or to play the game and enjoy it.
Close Combat falls into that category as well.
Close combat isn't a 10+ mission questline for each skill or an overly complicated requirement that you slave away at or spill millions on
Besides, you were regarding basic close combat. Can't change the stance midway through. And I was encouraging doing puppetry or archery. Not the entire close combat line.
2) If skill damage is the reason you recommend a talent to a new player, you're doing them a disservice.
Every new player I've met has hard-focused their first talent's skills for a nice time after character creation. It doesn't matter which talent they picked, they stuck with it for a while until they decided to pick up something else. The issue with this mentality and dual stat talents is that dual stat talents give very little stat points per AP spent, resulting in little growth for more levels gained and the appearance of wasted time.
Here's where close combat (or any other talent, for that matter) and chain slash really differ mechanically: chain slash has nearly half of all the skills locked behind side quests. Sure some of them are easy, but some of them also aren't doable by new players. Dorcha crystals for spinning slasher require coil abyss runs, death mark needs peaca runs (though party play is allowed so that helps), bacharm explosion requires spinning slasher to start the quest, and the others are RNG drops or fetch quests. The "it's just like AR pages!" argument literally doesn't work when half your talent is AR pages or similarly daunting hunts.
And this is helpful to the thread why, exactly?
It's the UTILITY and DAMAGE that makes it good
It's range which makes it safer than melee, and always hits which makes it safer than archery
It has the best aoe and safest single target
Chain only needs 2 skills to function: chain sweep and chain impale/crush (and snatch for auto attack). The rest are just extras
Spinning slash does nothing, it's just for stats. Explosion does nothing, again just for stats.
Unlike mage, chain doesn't need the locked skills
It's relevant to the thread because removal of Chain Slash from beginner talent choices will remove the Beginner Cardinal Chain Blade (1 gold repair per point at 100%) from the reward pool for a new user's first rebirth(they can still choose it from the second tab either way). As I said 10 other times. A new user can rebirth (change their talent) 24 hours after doing it the first time. Please remove the broom from your ass and step down from your pedestal. ~ Thanks.There's no need to get aggressive, we're trying to have a civil conversation. Just because people have a different opinion from yours doesn't give you the right to put them down for their beliefs.
Did you know we can obtain the Chain Slasher skills without the Talent? ~ Yup! ~ Just like every other skill in the game!
P.S. ~ The word ass is not filtered on this forum. (You chose to filter it manually). If Mabinogi is a rated game, it's Rated PG13 ... not G.
The issue isn't that you're locked into the talent or lack training bonuses for other skills. The issue is that most new players don't know to branch out into other stuff and 'lock themselves' into their first talent for a while and focusing in on a talent that has half the skills locked behind massive progress walls for newbies isn't ideal. What if they assume the rest of the game is like that? That all skills are locked behind content that they can't complete without years of work put into their character? They'll most probably give up and leave the game because they have made zero attachments to it.