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Elf Update?

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  • PolicromaPolicroma
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    The only thing I'd ever want for an elf update would be to dual wield knives. Where most other fantasy worlds have the elf archer pulling a pair of knives out when the action gets too close, that's not an option in mabinogi. Or at least not an option that allows for special upgrades, reforges, etc. (The one I'm thinking of doesn't have these options, I suspect, because otherwise it'd be a broken super-fast 2-handed weapon for giants and humans....)

    It's like, okay, yeah, I get it, humans are supposed to be the dual wielders, but this always bugged me.

    I feel a good compromise would be this: Allow an elf-only dual blade set, similar to chef's passion, but allow for reforges. Have it considered a "2-handed sword" by the game for the sake of special upgrades and skills. Easy peasy, and no giants or humans breaking final hit more than necessary.
    ChaosShadowBronzebreak
  • XehalinXehalin
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    I feel like the people that want elf buffs don't understand just how strong Elves really are.
    KageitoPolicromaDangerousDitch
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
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    Just give them dual wield already and they will shut up. 9dnGeIh.png
  • GretaGreta
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    Xehalin wrote: »
    I feel like the people that want elf buffs don't understand just how strong Elves really are.

    Yeah, with good ping.
    BehelitImaizumiTheNyanCat
  • ChaosShadowChaosShadow
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    edited April 14, 2019
    Xehalin wrote: »
    I feel like the people that want elf buffs don't understand just how strong Elves really are.

    Most don't, but I would argue that this is because of the fact that Archery's end-game damage is barred behind a really expensive set of gear and the necessity of having good ping.

    Compared to Humans and Giants, I feel like Elves have to work much harder to reach their meta. And that is not to say that Humans or Giants don't have to work hard to reach theirs, because they do. I just personally think that Elves have it worse in terms of expenses.
    Behelit
  • JiantoJianto
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    As an elf it's fine as it is top in meta can't ask for more than that
    Bronzebreak
  • FinityFinity
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    edited April 14, 2019
    I think Giants deserved this update, because the last revamp they got wasn't that impressive. Their population is so small, so I'd like to see more giants in our server. Final Strike is not Final hit though, Final Strike have higher damage multiplier but compared to FH it's slow, but speeds up when you hit/or get hit. Also Final Strike doesn't get effected by attack speed set bonus, while FH can. This update brought 2 handed sword Final hit as new meta for humans, so at least humans got something. (I know weakness+2 handed FH was a thing, but it's annoying to trigger weakness every time you wanna FH)

    I don't want anything big for elves, I just find it absurd that Final Shot has loading time when all the other Final skills doesn't....
    And the reforges for FS is so underwhelming, it barely makes any difference, while Human FH gear makes great difference. My human got lv18 FH cooldown decrease, and lv20 FH duration and with those, FH cooldown is only 61 seconds.
    For FS, I honestly didn't even bother to get FS duration, I think it adds on like 10 seconds at lv20. I sometimes don't even bother to use the skill anyways, because of that annoying loading time.
    Also I think all Final skills should have no durability loss, just to be fair and ease the stress of dura loss.

    Up to Phantasm, I think elves are great because I have no trouble running it. But in Tech Duinn missions its hard to be squishy elf, considering that most elves including myself uses bohemian gear. Those missions hits like a truck.... and monsters in there tend to ignore divine link when being attacked. Humans/Giants can Erg upgrade their 2-handed Swords/Blunts/Axes to receive bonus on def/prot/m.def/m.prot to make them tankier, while elves can't. I think it's part of balancing so I don't think that's unfair, it just shows you that elves may not be top tier anymore at least in new missions.
    Bronzebreak
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
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    I do loathe archery being the most reforge dependent, (It really shows in the later parts of the game) but to look at the glass half-full, most of the newer talents aren't nearly as reforge dependent, and this is most certainly a good thing.

    It is not bad being an elf. I understand the frustrations humans have when it comes to their niche in the game. Wielding human archery after maining elf archery is like trying to run a marathon on a broken foot (That 1.5 second cooldown yo.)

    I am unsure what to do with humans, since they are generally thought of to not excel much in anything.
  • PolicromaPolicroma
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    Xehalin wrote: »
    I feel like the people that want elf buffs don't understand just how strong Elves really are.

    Honestly I agree with you. Even the "gear" argument only goes so far when you consider what a store-bought chainblade can accomplish in terms of damage. There are ways to boost archery without reforges, and it's really about stacking damage mulitpliers. (Reforges are only a piece of this puzzle.)

    The only reason I want dual wielding is for "character" purposes, not because I think it'll magically make me stronger. (It won't.) For what it's worth I still sometimes pull out my Chef's Passion in areas where it's obviously outgunned just for the lulz, but ah well, there's a reason I stick to soloing.

    roseangelBronzebreak
  • MabiIn2k19MabiIn2k19
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    ITT: This is endgame giants op
    also ITT: No one who's actually close to that
  • XehalinXehalin
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    Policroma wrote: »
    Xehalin wrote: »
    I feel like the people that want elf buffs don't understand just how strong Elves really are.

    Honestly I agree with you. Even the "gear" argument only goes so far when you consider what a store-bought chainblade can accomplish in terms of damage. There are ways to boost archery without reforges, and it's really about stacking damage mulitpliers. (Reforges are only a piece of this puzzle.)

    The only reason I want dual wielding is for "character" purposes, not because I think it'll magically make me stronger. (It won't.) For what it's worth I still sometimes pull out my Chef's Passion in areas where it's obviously outgunned just for the lulz, but ah well, there's a reason I stick to soloing.
    Giving you guys dual wielding is something I'm fine with. But asking for actual buffs? I don't think elves should be doing that. My honest opinion is that they should just do away with racial exclusives and just give everything to everybody, but for example, if you want final hit, you can't have final shot or final strike. As for the Ladeca buffs, I think they should just roll them all into one. I also think they should take away base movement speed boosts from the other race, and just make it a passive skill that everybody can rank with low ap costs to start ranking and extremely high costs to finish ranking, or that comes as your potential rises or something. I've always hated the idea of race exclusive perks. I'd rather race just be a cosmetic thing. That would be fine if they want to keep certain racial cosmetic features exclusive, like ears and henna for elves or toned forms and tribal tattoos for giants. Stuff like that.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,050
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    edited April 16, 2019
    I remember when Elves and Giants use to complain about how Nexon seems to cater to humans while leaving our species to languish in our respective "specialties", whether it be humans with Final Hit over pre-revamp giants or Humans over elves in general. Now, it is great to be an elf or a giant!

    Reminds me of the time as a youth growing up, where being an Asian male was a great liability to one's dating life. Then South Korean pop music happened, and now I can only smile and say "Damn, it feels good to be an Asian dude."

    As of now, it is damn well fine to be an Elf or a giant. Especially since Scathach Outfits are now giant wearable. Now, if you excuse me, I am going to go to the muscle springs to grow giant breasts to be displayed in my voluptuous Scathach wear.
    Policroma
  • RoxwellRoxwell
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    I just wanna sit on my giant homie's shoulders! DDDDDDDDDDDDDDD:
    Wolfsinger
  • justshowingjustshowing
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    as a level 18k elf player i feel pretty powerful even though i don't have 6 elf only skills like giants too.

    lets face it, giants needed a final hit/shot type of feeling of there own to just be complete in my opinion. (just an opinion!)
    i jump on my 5k giant sometimes and i just get this rush when i use stampede, final strike, and wind guard!

    but personally, i feel like taunting is pretty useless now. why taunt if you can walk around freely with wind guard now? small and minor thought its really no big deal.

    getting to level 100 per rebirth is extreemly easy on my elf. so i get to use vision of ladeca a lot.

    i do have a question however. with the new technique called time shift. at level 10 that means i could use final shot 5 times in a row? :O
    if so then i'm happy with my elf, revampping elves is always welcomed but im happy reguardless.
  • PanPan
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    I think humans need a FH buff. Adding in multipliers to it would be a good idea.
  • LutetiumLutetium
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    Pan wrote: »
    I think humans need a FH buff. Adding in multipliers to it would be a good idea.

    This poster is ENTIRELY correct, Final Hit doing 400% damage to the main target every 400 milliseconds (0.4 seconds) (300ms/0.3s with relentless assault) and 360% splash damage in a radius larger than windmill with 4 piercing levels and only having 50 seconds of down time between uses isn't a good enough endgame it should be at LEAST 4 times that much so people don't have to put ANY work into their human characters to steamroll all content in the game.

    Sarcasm aside, Elves are fine mathematically; the problem is archery aiming being tied to latency and the NA server-player connections having 10-20 times the latency the game was designed to function under, the only real fix to this is to bias archery server side to hitting rather than missing, although that makes Californian elves even more overpowered than they currently are as they're the only ones who experience archery relatively as it's intended currently, and calculating the bias to equalize it based on latency would just add excessive overhead on the already crumbling spaghetti server code. I admittedly don't see KR caring enough about NA to implement any fix for archery misses specific to our region since it works fine everywhere else.

    But hey if you are an elf, outside of California, you can always drop a couple hundred bucks on reforges and get casting speed 20 on a celtic tribolt and just firebolt for dps instead of mag, it isn't quite as good and combo cards don't boost it properly but it doesn't miss and elves do more with it than humans and even further more than giants, chain is also a pretty decent option considering elves have the highest full-time damage with the skillset, and support shot exists which doesn't miss nearly as much as mag and crash shot and lets elves do more dps with ss+smash than a giant with smash+double bash. I'm also sure in time we'll end up getting another new skillset which will scale off int+dex which favors elves 40k shine of eweca caps.

    Also as I've said a few times in threads similar to this; nothing stops anyone unhappy with the race they're playing from playing another race on the same account without losing any pets, most inventory bags can be moved between characters using the bank, and you can trade unlock gear and move it through the pets or the bank as well. Now especially with skill resets at Duncan, massive free level ups to fast track you to 5k (and get you to 200 current once for skill training combined with Duncan resets) from Blaanid, and the free 150 current every rebirth from doing counter attack/siege weapon for elite passes of nowhere to run/gatekeeper, it's much easier to get "back to where you were", speaking personally I spent around 7 years getting to 25k total on my elf and now in about 2 years my giant's just hitting 20k.

    TL;DR: Elves don't need buffed but range should be adjusted to miss less for NA; Human's don't need buffed; Giants after the most recent buff are a bit more in line with the other races but still fall behind soloing due to the massive power support shot grants and having the weakest single target dps of the three races, but shine in party play being able to take aggro off other players, and have humans and elves support shot their massive combo card boosted smashes. Most of the complaints in these threads seem to be coming from people who don't seem to have invested much work into growing their characters are feel like in the early game they should be as strong as endgame players.
    BronzebreakPanSherri
  • NerezzaNerezza
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    edited April 24, 2019
    I see a lot of "If you have this" and "If you use that" for Final Shot, and I'll agree that the combinations suggested are great but what if you don't have/use this/that? What if you just straight up use it like a human or giant would just straight up use their Final abilities, or even if a gunslinger just uses Way of the Gun? Is it comparable? Not really, no. Frankly the problem lies with archery mechanics rather than Final Shot, though the teleport thing could use a bit of a rework.

    I probably don't have to say anything about Elven Magic Missile but I will anyway: At r1 the cast time (from charging it to spell impact) is too long to be practical and the damage it does is a joke. Some way to make it cast rapidly would be the best fix for the former issue, which could in turn be enough to remedy the latter issue. Putting a decent cooldown on it in turn would prevent ridiculous spamming that would otherwise result.

    Aside from those, every other criticism people direct towards elves in general really deserves to be directed to Archery instead. As a long-time elf main (I practically have no experience as a human, and no experience as a giant) I "mastered" archery at one point as new elves tend to do and I found that archery is one of the worst things an early/midgame player can focus on. It underperforms compared to all the other offensive talents unless you're an endgame level character stats/talents/gear-wise.

    One of the worst things about it for newer players is that missing a shot means you do absolutely nothing against an enemy, and aiming will take you a very long time (when you're a novice player). Perhaps turning the misses into something like a guaranteed "glancing shot" if you're above a certain % on the aim meter could make archery more viable for novice players. Some way to compete against the people that can clear a dungeon room with 1 or 2 abilities would be nice, too.
  • ChoCho
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    Why do Elves only get Archery and mana costs and Giants get Close Combat, Fighter, Chainblades bonuses and Lance with Close Combat being a part of almost every weapon including control bars and chainblades? How many times am I gonna see "Witness the True Power of Giants" on Mabi's homepage? They already said that when Lances got released.

    Elf needs QoL. Hide usable during combat with a lower cooldown, Mirage Missile taking armor pen into account, or at least 70% aiming while running with archery. Especially needs a fix for Elf ranged lag.
    NerezzaBronzebreakAmaraz
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Elves is just a skill that Giants use.
  • NerezzaNerezza
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    Cho wrote: »
    Why do Elves only get Archery and mana costs and Giants get Close Combat, Fighter, Chainblades bonuses and Lance with Close Combat being a part of almost every weapon including control bars and chainblades? How many times am I gonna see "Witness the True Power of Giants" on Mabi's homepage? They already said that when Lances got released.

    Elf needs QoL. Hide usable during combat with a lower cooldown, Mirage Missile taking armor pen into account, or at least 70% aiming while running with archery. Especially needs a fix for Elf ranged lag.

    I think you made good points here: The lack of benefits compared to what giants get, the Hide restrictions, Mirage Missile not doing armor penetration. Aside from MM, archery tuning for elves really just needs to turn into a(nother?) overall archery revamp.
This discussion has been closed.