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Elf buff for Strength and debuff for intelligence?

Comments

  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,940
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    Orkane wrote: »
    Pannya wrote: »
    Kaga wrote: »
    Not sure why people don't get it.

    idk, maybe because they are not weak, they are actually the strongest and most cheaty race on the game and ppl that says the opposite use to be newbies that have no idea how to use an elf o.O

    Or not rich enough. Which is the problem. The cash gap between reforged archery and unreforged is large. 12k crits are possible with s6 bows. Reforges can up it to 20k to 60k to even 100k. The mechancis, unejoyable sure, but archery as a whole is the premier MMO skill you can't use to its full potential without going premium, with archery either being lackluster without reforges to being overpowered with.

    This is balanced in such a way so only wealthy and lucky players can achieve this.

    My solution? Perhaps we should shorten the gap, but linearly so that is noticeable for base maxed archery rather than starting out. Perhaps we should redo the whole reforge system.

    Once can argue that you can buy gold, but gold is so much easier when you are reforged, such as VHM Girgashiy spam I believe.
    12k crits are possible with s6 bows.
    s6 bows.
    s6 bows.

    I see Julie left a strong impression on you.

    Was it suppose to be R6? I am just trying to fit in with you cool kids. :(

    My bows thus far red upgraded.
    Meonketer wrote: »
    VHM Girg runs are 10k/run, which takes ~1 minute assuming you have enough damage to ensure it getting low enough to be quickly killed after blades drop.
    Conflict HM is ~15k/run and takes about as long with less damage required, as well as being able to use crystals to boost the gold gain.
    I was referring to the earlier one, where it dropped 50k, but Devs had to nerf it before everyone who could actually do it made well over hundreds of millions.

    This is especially notable with Black Dragon Spam, where the dragon will die in minutes and has a tenth of the rate of contributions in White Dragon.

    Point being, most of the valid money making options cannot really compete without reforges, whereas you probably need lots of gold to reforge in the first place, or NX.

  • ZephynZephyn
    Mabinogi Rep: 535
    Posts: 7
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    edited March 17, 2017
    No one can read can they at all?

    It's not a DEBUFF because you still gain stats. You simply gain slightly LESS int than you gain str.

    Only those who mistake the explanation about fewer points being rewarded, it didn't say it takes away.
    For elves it is.

    If all you care about is the skills, then yeah, the skill is just another version of Final Shot; They're better off just making FS stronger. If you care about having more than just the same few places for YEARS like Iriah and Uladh then you'd probably get bored without a new place to explore and loot. The game isn't worth playing to me because Mari is practically deserted at all times and our shopping channel is much smaller than it used to be.

    I want more than just missons, Belvast and the Crusader stuff (which can only be done 3 times a day...) for a level 8~9k. Coill Abyss is too easy, Peaca Abyss can't be done without a good team which I see too few people for and the dungeon in the end isn't worth it. You have better chances getting nice things out of gachapons than you do getting nice things by actually playing the game, something I don't like.
    Once a mabi day, works EXACTLY like trans timing.

    This miscommunication happened because Nexon mistyped on their update page "6AM Pacific Time" which is really early in the morning for California Americans. I'm also not very confident about grinding up to level 100 from 30 when I stopped playing 20 weeks ago to see whether or not it's worth using.

    If Nexon merges the Mabinogi servers so it can be less deserted and hopefully bring back more party runs then I can get back into the game. The same time or not, I'd like new permanent lands to fight new enemies, explore and loot. Things that are worth playing, as far as I'm concerned right now there's no reason to play Mabi to loot, explore and whatever. Everything you need is in Gachapon, I'm not fond of spending hundreds for one or two items I might not get.

    But yeah, overall the game is pretty solid but I dislike the business model and I dislike the lack of new content. I can only play the same stuff for so long before I get sick of it and I haven't seen much of any new story or exploring content for a long time.

    This is probably my last post though, at least for a while.

    Edit: Even if new lands don't come with a main story line, I'd still play through the new enemies, dungeons and loots. They can probably have NPCs in those lands provide short stories regarding their own lives(kind of like Fighter and Ninja talents actually but without skills and with rewards instead) and provide repetitive quests for rewards. My point is though is that I want more playable content than I want more wings or whatever coming to the shop. I think money would be better spent on a $700 computer system than $700 of gachapons which is unknown whether or not it'll be any good.
    Sherri
  • TheDumbOneTheDumbOne
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,790
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    im on a tiny island trying to get half the content for alche to be fixed.
    (waves a lil flag and eats coconuts)
    Elves be better race if everyone didnt have a good foot in the pool parties of archery and mage.
    i be even glad if a skill set that got swept got redeem for a elf upgrade like... puppeteer or ninja... or elche.... did i mention alchemy?
    Sherri
  • DaktaroDaktaro
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,215
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    Lutetium wrote: »
    If not from DevCAT, then where did you get the idea that elves should have magical advantages? .-.
    a493f9d108.png

    I think that's pretty straight forward.
    That, or they really are the most inept game developers of all time.
    94b68f6d04.png

    I agree. However that isn't to say a poorly coded imbalanced train wreck of a game can't also be enjoyable, I mean just look at any Bethesda game since the masterpiece that was Daggerfall, horrible games that only get worse and worse as hardware gets better and better but enjoyable for thousands of hours of playtime none the less. Mabinogi really could be a great game if they were willing to put the cash into the development time it would take to rewrite the engine from scratch while maintaining compatability with existing content and character data.

    But from a business point of view rather than a player's, that isn't going to turn an immediate immense profit so it's better to simply keep cashing in on the game until the player base dissolves by releasing more high priced gachapons full of rehashed wings in fixed colors at super low sub 1% odds that could have been dyable from the start (again, that isn't profitable). At the end of the day though, the developers might actually have a desire to do that, but we cant get in touch with them and even if we could it simply doesn't matter what the developer wants because that isnt what corporate wants and corporate just wants what gets the most cash.

    EDIT: a bit of my post got cut off at the end so I corrected it.

    marry me
    im jk but marry me
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,100
    Posts: 277
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    edited March 17, 2017
    Or not rich enough. Which is the problem. The cash gap between reforged archery and unreforged is large. 12k crits are possible with s6 bows. Reforges can up it to 20k to 60k to even 100k. The mechancis, unejoyable sure, but archery as a whole is the premier MMO skill you can't use to its full potential without going premium, with archery either being lackluster without reforges to being overpowered with.

    This is balanced in such a way so only wealthy and lucky players can achieve this.

    My solution? Perhaps we should shorten the gap, but linearly so that is noticeable for base maxed archery rather than starting out. Perhaps we should redo the whole reforge system.

    Once can argue that you can buy gold, but gold is so much easier when you are reforged, such as VHM Girgashiy spam I believe.

    Exactly. I know it wouldn't be reasonable to remove reforges at this point, but it'd be nice if, at the very least, they could be re-balanced so the skills which benefit most from them aren't quite so reliant on them. Nothing has to be taken away per se, so I don't see what's wrong with this approach.

    Ele and effective range do need to be removed though.
    Meonketer wrote: »
    VHM Girg runs are 10k/run, which takes ~1 minute assuming you have enough damage to ensure it getting low enough to be quickly killed after blades drop.
    Conflict HM is ~15k/run and takes about as long with less damage required, as well as being able to use crystals to boost the gold gain.
    I was referring to the earlier one, where it dropped 50k, but Devs had to nerf it before everyone who could actually do it made well over hundreds of millions.

    Are you talking about Saga 2 Ep 6 Spam? Good times. Very balanced. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    And let's not forget the forbidden MA Final spam with alt revolver...(though it'd require 10 alts minimum, and nearly as many computers (or at least clients) to be worth it)
  • JoeyDee9JoeyDee9
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,565
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    Elemental reforge isn't even good anymore, if you have it on your bow you're doing things semi-wrong. It's not useful in any area where it actually matters anymore.

    A good 'buff' to archery as I've stated like 50+++ times here on the forums is to not alter reforged damage in any way, but to shift some of the reforge percentage back to the base skill. Would make non reforged people happier while not changing the people who already invested millions. Reduces the gap and would make most people happy.
    AlmostNotsuperSherriDaktaro
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
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    JoeyDee9 wrote: »
    Elemental reforge isn't even good anymore, if you have it on your bow you're doing things semi-wrong. It's not useful in any area where it actually matters anymore.

    It was still a mistake. >=T
    A good 'buff' to archery as I've stated like 50+++ times here on the forums is to not alter reforged damage in any way, but to shift some of the reforge percentage back to the base skill. Would make non reforged people happier while not changing the people who already invested millions. Reduces the gap and would make most people happy.

    This is what I was trying to say. @_@

    Just out of curiosity, what does it sound like I was saying? I get the feeling I might not be understood as often as I'd like to be, so maybe this will help me to word things better in the future.
  • EllisyaEllisya
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    edited March 17, 2017
    Don't elves use less mana than what other race use?
  • OrkaneOrkane
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    edited March 17, 2017
    Ellisya wrote: »
    Doesn't elves use less mana than what other race use?

    It's pretty negligible. It doesn't apply to every spell, and is never more than 0.5 mp per spell (compared to humans). The only exception is ice spear.
  • TheNyanCatTheNyanCat
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    Ellisya wrote: »
    Doesn't elves use less mana than what other race use?

    At this point in the game you don't even worry about mana so it's kinda pointless.
  • darkchaos125darkchaos125
    Mabinogi Rep: 965
    Posts: 44
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    Or not rich enough. Which is the problem. The cash gap between reforged archery and unreforged is large. 12k crits are possible with s6 bows. Reforges can up it to 20k to 60k to even 100k. The mechancis, unejoyable sure, but archery as a whole is the premier MMO skill you can't use to its full potential without going premium, with archery either being lackluster without reforges to being overpowered with.
    This, though the cash gap issue applies outside of archery as well as-

    Like Zeph mentioned, there's a lack of content, and our money is better spent on other things. I'm repeating myself but it's rather annoying needing to worry about the 'next big thing' from gacha to spend gold or hard cash on every month. Every month its just moneymoneymoney. You got my money when I paid for prem service and prem service already lost half its value with all the perks given to all/free players.

    They really just need time to create and deliver content for mabi community.

    "At this point in the game you don't even worry about mana so it's kinda pointless."

    Considering all the RE/SE pots events give, and ranking mage/gaining INT stats is easy, you can get enough mana shield and Mana def/prot to mitigate most damage save for severe poison/bleed effects. I don't think bleed condition does much compared to poison?
  • PlatinaKokiPlatinaKoki
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    INT is the easiest stat to raise. Even as a Grandmaster Warrior, my INT was 200+ points above my STR.
    KagaGretaSherriNilrem
  • KagaKaga
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    INT is the easiest stat to raise. Even as a Grandmaster Warrior, my INT was 200+ points above my STR.

    Which just proves my point even more.

    Say elves get 2+ less INT, and 2+ more STR, while giants get vice versa, that sounds balanced, right?

    But you have to remember that giants have full access to all magic skills, while I can't say the same thing about elves and combat.

    On top of that, giants have 200+ str and -20 less INT, while elves havet vice versa. Which is why people think it's still an unfair trade.

    Sure elves can cap STR, but not as easy as giants capping INT. You actually don't even need cater to cap INT (even as a giant) you just need Divine link. Compared to elves for STR. They would need to Divine link AND use catering.

    I think most people got my point though.
    SylviaWolfeDaktaroHazurah
  • GretaGreta
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    edited March 17, 2017
    INT is the easiest stat to raise. Even as a Grandmaster Warrior, my INT was 200+ points above my STR.

    Yup, i'm Grandmaster Warrior, Master Knight, Master Bard, Expert Ninja and Puppeteer and i still have around 100 INT points above my STR. I have Master Mage and Seasoned Cleric talents, but as you can see i took more attention in Close Combat talents. I have only like 2 INT talents and 5 STR talents.... We get so much INT lol. Human btw.
  • ZeoZeo
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    I'm going to agree with Kage on this issue... it is nice that elves get more str and will from the new passive skill but... the gap for Int isn't that huge between elves and Giants... and now giants will be the best race to use magic because they get more Int boost from the skill... lol.

    Also, I saw that someone took a screenshot where it was stated that elves is the best race for archery and magic... I'd like to point the Hermit Staff's description where the ancient elves used it... heck, elves are able to use bow/wand to use Magic Missile skill in transformation too!
    Kaga
  • darkchaos125darkchaos125
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    edited March 17, 2017
    Zeo wrote: »
    I'm going to agree with Kage on this issue... it is nice that elves get more str and will from the new passive skill but... the gap for Int isn't that huge between elves and Giants... and now giants will be the best race to use magic because they get more Int boost from the skill... lol.

    Also, I saw that someone took a screenshot where it was stated that elves is the best race for archery and magic... I'd like to point the Hermit Staff's description where the ancient elves used it... heck, elves are able to use bow/wand to use Magic Missile skill in transformation too!

    Right. Every race has access to magic and can all be equally great at it (for sake of argument). The part about elves being 'specialists' in magic is a moot point when everyone can do it and imps can pull off Hide yet can be targetable lol

    As for bow/wand for Elven Magic Missile, this is a useless/pointless 'perk' considering the skill's damage is greater with wands than bow, and it's not a reliable damage skill. There are a few people who say EMM can deal op damage, which was a fabricated lie. While they give the (same) nice effects as Int magic, its far more efficient to actually use the Int magic skills themselves over EMM. If elves were true masters of magic, you'd be seeing at the very least, ice freeze chain effect when Ice element is used due to elves' affinity for Ice Spear. I don't think we'd need that, might as well freeze one target with archery. Oh wait that's Spider/Web Shot. Hmmm...well, can't hit the target while they're trapped more than once. Spider shot's purpose is to help the sniper rather than the warrior, its 2ndary use is to hold enemies down. Others are used to this but it's such a chore to keep switching equpiment for other AOE/trap skills like shadow bind, then sand blast, puppet bind. At best, I can use rage impact as well, but thats what stun/AOE pets are for =P

  • DaktaroDaktaro
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    why are people seeing: elf should specialise in magic > they don't though > the description is wrong/outdated/useless
    rather than: elf should specialise in magic > they don't though > the state of the race needs attention/update

    ? i don't get it
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,100
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    Kaga wrote: »
    Say elves get 2+ less INT, and 2+ more STR, while giants get vice versa, that sounds balanced, right?

    But you have to remember that giants have full access to all magic skills, while I can't say the same thing about elves and combat.

    On top of that, giants have 200+ str and -20 less INT, while elves havet vice versa. Which is why people think it's still an unfair trade.
    So, and I can't believe nobody has pointed this out yet, what is with that weird dichotomy? It is obviously supposed to be Strength/Dexterity and Close Combat/Archery, with maybe Will/Intelligence if you really wanted to push the comparison. I mean giants are typecast as the 'hit things with smash/bash race' and elves (much to your dismay) are the 'shoot things with a bow, pew pew' race. Comparing an elf's int to a giant's str is a skewed argument, those two things were never meant to be juxtaposed. You might as well start talking about which one of them is the better bard or cleric.

    You have to remember that giants have full access to all magic skills, while elves only have access to most combat skills. Also, forget about the archery thing.

    But I do see your point. It would indeed be kind of sad to see that giants can achieve significantly more int than elves can because of this update (I actually do think elves could use some slight advantages in magic, as I suggested in that other thread). However, I'd like to see more about how this skill works - exactly what stats it gives to what races at what total level - before I form a definite opinion on it. So far it looks like a really careless attempt at balancing the stats between races, and more pointless power creep.

    I doubt that it's anything to cry over, though. And even if that particular part of the update is, there's still FS 2.0.
    As for bow/wand for Elven Magic Missile, this is a useless/pointless 'perk' considering the skill's damage is greater with wands than bow, and it's not a reliable damage skill. There are a few people who say EMM can deal op damage, which was a fabricated lie. While they give the (same) nice effects as Int magic, its far more efficient to actually use the Int magic skills themselves over EMM. If elves were true masters of magic, you'd be seeing at the very least, ice freeze chain effect when Ice element is used due to elves' affinity for Ice Spear. I don't think we'd need that, might as well freeze one target with archery.

    Actually, Elven Magic Missile does more damage with bows than wands, to the point where some people thought the wand version was broken because it does little-to-no damage (it also automatically switches to a bow in another slot, even if you have a wand equipped in your current slot, if you have that option on). I specifically remember there being a thread at one point complaining about this. Also, I just tested it myself.
  • darkchaos125darkchaos125
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    edited March 17, 2017
    Daktaro wrote: »
    why are people seeing: elf should specialise in magic > they don't though > the description is wrong/outdated/useless
    rather than: elf should specialise in magic > they don't though > the state of the race needs attention/update

    ? i don't get it

    Aelf/Elf = faerie/faery = magic folk because superstition I guess? The entire Avalon is the land of the Faeries and every creature is magical/mythical, and we're in a fantasy game where we include elves. Of course elves are expected and known for their strong magic. It's been that way since their creation of lore and in the last 20-40 years of books/movies/games/etc.

    The elves in lore are always associated with strong ties to high magic or spirituality. The game lore also mentions the elves tied to higher magic due to Iria/Neamhain creating them to be a race with magic specialty,. In actuality, the elves in mabi are just using that to distinguish themselves from giants, and create an elf-nocentric ideology, making them appear as a lesser but godly race compared to giants, to appear superior to giants since the both the two races were brought forth from Neamhain. The description itself isn't wrong at all, it is outdated though. You may 'think' or 'feel' the statements are false, but this affirms their original intentions in making elves the best/superior in magic. There's a few references throughout the in-game, as well as ingame books that affirms Elves having higher magic affinity. The problem is that the game is never 'consistent' in bringing it up, as they focused more on the human than elf/giant cultures.

    some people may think because today's elves 'aren't' the true owners (specialists/masters) of magic, then we might as well scrap the idea anyways since Dev seems to want everyone to be equally proficient, and have equal access to magic talent.

    Come to think of it, going back to elven magic missile, there are skills that have influences of 'magic' blended within non-range/magic skills like rage impact or FH.

    Our pathetic excuse of a Martial Arts talent is just street fighting/boxing, and their idea of 'magic swordsman' talent is a player holding a sword, with a bolt loaded (forget elementally enchanting equips)
    DaktaroBlissfulkill
  • AlmostNotsuperAlmostNotsuper
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    edited March 17, 2017
    Daktaro wrote: »
    why are people seeing: elf should specialise in magic > they don't though > the description is wrong/outdated/useless
    rather than: elf should specialise in magic > they don't though > the state of the race needs attention/update

    ? i don't get it

    I could ask the same thing for the other side of that argument. Neither of those chains of reasoning are less valid than the other, but one does reflect reality more accurately. Also, unfortunately, there's a lot of room for interpretation here.

    It's all subjective. If you think elves should be objectively the best at magic, you'll take that description and run with it. If you don't, you'll look at what advantages they initially had, what they have now, and think 'Yeah, I don't think that means what you think it means". Actually, that's not exactly true - in the second case, you'd probably look at what's been done, and then form your opinion. The fact is, elves have had advantages in magic for some time, and they still do. But some would argue that they need more, because their existing advantages seem useless to them now (typically speaking from endgame); and some would argue that they don't, or at least that they don't need much.

    For that reason, this argument probably won't end. People won't change their opinions on it. We'll just have to wait and see what happens, listening to elves qq all the while...

    P.S. - The exact wording of the description most people here seem to be basing their opinions on:
    a493f9d108.png

    I don't know if elves still have the most potential for MP or INT, and I'm refraining from saying anything about this buff being unfair to elves until I do (assuming it really is bad). Note that even if this is the case, this description is still technically correct, or at least, not objectively incorrect. While it does specifically mention INT and MP, it's pretty vague with 'high'.
    Daktaro