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Repeal the dungeon revamp
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I died like 20 times and it took me an hour to run it.
Didn't get the page, not going through that again...
Looking at those rooms where like 5 metal skeletons multi aggro you at once and then just stun me to death.
Tbh thats every dungeon pretty much now. Walk into room get multi aggro pinned on ground until dead.
But at least let them experience the dungeon without the entrance being enemies that feel like they're the ancient version. That could be rather discouraging in trying the dungeons again for a bit, while on the other-hand, with shadow missions, the difficulty seems more fair for newer players and usually faster to finish
Agenajean. let me make that even better.
Add in HM alter room to ALL dungeons in the game. including Iria.
Add in an Abyss varient to all dungeons.
and a Phantasm to all dungeons.
all dungeons would have their own exclusive rewards and enemies that only come from their phantasms.
Nobody asked for this dungeon revamp we got where enemies are just slightly stronger. we end game players just wanted new harder activities within the dungeons.
When people did the dungeons back in Pre-Genesis, the level they were at are equivalent to what we have now. And a new player shouldn't expect to plow through every dungeon on their first try. They need to work on their characters like the rest of us did to become strong enough to overcome the dungeon.
Simply turning dungeons into Clive's Candy Castle doesn't fix the problem. It spoonfeeds noobs content the rest of us had to work for, causing them to expect everything to be handed to them. Plus, it screws over mid and endgame players. They want engaging content to play, instead of an easy snorefest that requires no effort to complete. It's not fun that way.
Remember, most people play games for fun. Making dungeons completeable by an arthritic turtle isn't the way to go. It just bores everyone.
TL;DR cAsUls ShUlD sTiCk To AlBy NoRmAl
No. The developers just saw what was essentially abandoned content and wanted to breath new life into it. Supposedly the dungeons are still doable for any talent at the recommended difficulty level. I'm not seeing it.
My pets were able to hold their own in dungeons through intermediate which was about right for their skills (well .. not Peaca ... that was insane). Now they struggle at basic.
My main is supposed to be able to hold her own in the most difficult dungeons. But she can't even get past Fiodh intermediate. Of course, she can't even get past that stupid dragon in memento and that is supposed to be basic/fledgling+. So for all I know even Alby basic is out of her league. LOL
I know I suck at these sorts of games. But either the game is giving incorrect feedback or I am far more pathetic than I imagined.
Yeah its more about the abysmal drop rates. One shouldn't need to grind for 2000 hours to get an RNG drop on an item that has RNG stat roles when the RNG to obtain one chance at RNG is so low.
When I started out I could handle rabbie basic at level 100 because I moved around tactically and lightning bolted enemies from far away while remaining on single aggro. Enemies hit super hard, but had MANAGABLE AGGRO and LOW HP. Now we have GIGANTIC HP and FAIRLY HIGH damage. Outside of dungeons it can get even worse. Freaking 200-mobs-at-once-instant-multiaggro-of-death-and-destruction-with-102408204203928430423982-normalattack-damage-and-all-standers-level-2+
See, my problem with this is: it's not "challenging". It's "draining". It's not any less boring than it was before. There isn't anychallenge whatsoever in cranked up hp and damage when the dungeons are exactly the same, unappealing trash they were before. Little to no drops, ridiculously boring design (no elevations, no different rooms, no gimmicks, no shapes other than god damned squares everywhere, unnecessarily long passageways). Everything that was borng before is still boring now. The only thing that changed was that it now takes even longer to solo them. I still don't have any incentive to do dungeons in groups though because the droprates are crap and the dungeons themselves are boring.
Sidhe Finnachaid is a decent start, but it also suffers from the giant hp sponge sickness and the same old gimmicks we've had before. The only thing new are the boss' attack pattern (which I appreciate greatly) and the fishes. I'd count the dragons too, since they give only mages a chance to shine for once, but even that is limited due to the fact that it's - once again - all about kill or be killed, in a giant bullet hell of thunder and fireball strikes. Using cleric shields and using crisis escape outside range to drop aggro is about as tactical as it gets.
Last thing, for the person who ran rabbie for thunder page 4 @Opalthira : run ghost of partholon instead and grab all of the flying booklets. They drop the page way more frequently. It's not really hard to get it anymore at this point. Market crashed due to people spamming samhain as well, where there was an interlude of a drastically shortened rabbie with the same droprates. I don't know if people are holding on to the pages and pretending the market "totally doesn't have any", but it sure does. I bet half of the people have spare pages lying around.
Still doesn't give me incentive to run dungeons tho, especially long ones (looking at you Fiodh and Coill) when the drop rate is abysmal.
I had a lot of trouble with that dragon with my main too. Many embarrassing deaths were suffered. However, if your main is a human, you can try the strategy that I used to finally defeat it:
Prep:
1. Acquire Battlefield Overture, Enduring Melody, the Healing spell, and Final Hit.
2. Get Song to rank 5.
3. Get a pair of Hobnail Knuckles and put the Good enchantment on them (upgrades optional).
4. Stock up on HP potions of the 50 HP rank and higher, bandages, and some Mana potions.
Execution:
1. When you're just out of agro range of the dragon, summon a pet. It doesn't have to be a fancy cash shop pet, even a basic pet like your free horse will do. Put it in Assist mode so it can tank for you a little, then use Battlefield Overture, activate Final Hit, and attack the dragon.
2. Hit the dragon non-stop until Final Hit ends. If it starts doing Thunder, Fireball, or the skull or question mark icon appears above its head, run out of the way to avoid getting hit. If you do get hit, guzzle some potions immediately and start retreating.
3. Retreat. The dragon will only chase you so far if you're its target. If your pet is its target, let it keep tanking until you're at a safe distance (the length between the circle of arches and the black pillars is what you're aiming for), recall your pet, and start recovering with healing magic, Enduring Melody, Rest, Mana potions, and a phoenix feather, healing magic, and bandages for your pet if it got knocked out.
4. Once you're fully recovered, start with step 1 all over again. Repeat until that bony lizard is dead.
It's still a tough fight, and this strategy does take quite a while to pull off (my main was at cumulative level 700+ and CP-wise on par with Red Bears when I beat the dragon), but it works. I was taking about 9%-11% of its health off per round on average, so it's pretty effective (I was also using a level 24-ish Milkyway Pegasus from the homestead event a while back). I don't know what to do with an elf or giant, though. I know that Final Hit isn't a viable move, but maybe an elf with high intelligence, snap cast, and Thunder might be able to do the trick. As for a giant...Dear crap, i need to spend more time with my giant alt! XD
I agree. Dungeoning used to be one of the main draws for me as a player. Now I'm unmotivated to do them because after a certain amount of bludgeoning hp walls for absolutely zero reward (unless it's an xp event) it gets dull, assuming you can even get into the dungeon. I'm all for increasing dungeon difficulty since late/endgame folks need a challenge but when "difficulty" = "more time to kill enemies" rather than improving enemy AI or making me think, then it's just tedious.
There was actually an even easier method that could have all the difficulties. Just make a new alter to get in the game like those hardmode versions they did prior in a new room. That way the players could have had the harder dungeons that wanted them, and new players could get the pages, and crap they need at a normal rate, and get used to the dungeon.
In it's current form the drop rates for items are horrendous, the gold dropped is mediocre, and you don't proficiency up gear from what I've seen as it seems they forgot to raise the monsters CP(I don't mod so I can't say the actual in game CP, but based it on how they are all still weakest to me)... even though it takes longer to kill them.
Back in the days of G1(way back when we had to walk from Tir down to Bangor, up hill both ways, in the snow with no horse , or SHOES) it was possible for a fairly new player(level 100/150) to solo Barri up to the boss room. It wasn't a cake-walk and you probably die a few times but if you played it smart you could make it to the boss room, I know because I would spam Barri for ores to sell back in early 2008 when mabi first came out.
Today The mabi population is dwindling. Why because you have old players leaving because they are getting bored and new players don't stick around that long because they'll try something like Barri or Randal, get completely slaughtered with absolutely no hope of ever being able to hold their own in such a basic dungeon any time soon beause the damage output requirements are insane. That will scare them off from even attempting the mainstream quests that sends them to those dungeons and then with nothing to do in the Game but relay on other people for everything they just quit.
G1-G3 dungeon mobs should NOT have as much HP as Generation Boss or a mob from Scathach beach which we can all agree is not a place for new players.
Actually, the instances of the dungeons created by the special passes used for G1's missions (and probably G2 and G3 as well, though I haven't gotten to those yet) contain mobs and bosses that a newbie with a total level under 100 can take out without getting totally trashed. I beat most of G1solo with my main under total level 50 on my first talent with just basic combat skills, Fighter skills, Rest, Campfire, and First Aid at my disposal. I didn't even use my pets to help me fight or heal me, and I had no real problems until I hit the boss room in the Green Gem dungeon in Tir Na Nog (not that that's much to brag about, since the early Generations were nerfed a while before I joined).
If letting newer players have ready access to a wider variety of dungeons early on is such a big concern, then they should just make Beginner passes for more of the tougher dungeons and call it a day. I always found it odd that Albey--the dungeon with the least need for an easy mode pass--is the only one that has one available, but places like Bari and Coil--which are key to the Blacksmithing skill and a skill quest, respectively--don't.
In fact, it's almost hilarious that the game's easiest dungeon is the only one with an easy mode. I mean, what other game do you know does that? Sure, some games only let you play, like, the first half in easy mode or withhold the final boss battle or the true ending from you...but only letting the easiest level have an easy mode? LOL! That's ridiculous, man! XD
I think that's the bigger issue here. The drop rates. I kind of agree that normal versions of all dungeons should be set back to what they were pre-update, but ALL versions of dungeons need to have their drop rates for items increased. I can understand mangled passes being rare, but is there any reason for regular passes to be oh so hard to get? And old items that are required for obtaining skills?? Heck, no one even bothers to make those boost pots that require those pure white dusts and stuff because not only is it hard to get enough of the mats (even after you slog through the dungeon again and again), the boost potion only gives you...what, 2% success rate for a SINGLE attempt at whatever craft you're doing?
Whatever you may say about the difficulties of monsters, the drop rates of items definitely needs to be improved.
But now that it might actually prove to be fun, people can't run it with a full family//teamship because of the 4 player limit. Unless their 'do everything together' teams were already small to begin with
They made a good start with Sidhe, it isn't a long dungeon, its mechanics are good, pleasing to the eyes, good music. Its fairly spamable to attempt more tries until you get the enchant like cadenza which is rare but I don't mind spamming it since there are other aspects like echo stones grade attempts that keeps me running the dungeon.
I think the monster CP is the most broken thing. For instance, I've been running Albey with a fresh alt this weekend. This alt is a female elf, sure, but thanks to relentlessly training Windmill up to rank 6, she still has a decent amount of strength...plus she's got a mace and a Magic School Uniform (F) I crafted with my human female alt, so she's decently equipped for her level. White Spiders are ranked as "Weakest" compared to her, and in the field she can take them out in, like, one shot and can't hurt her all that much. In the dungeon? Those "Weakest" White Spiders take three hits and just two hits from those things takes out most of her health! That's not "Weakest", that's at least equal (I've only been leveling Windmill and Production Mastery on her for the sake of keeping her CP as low as possible for training purposes, so she's a straight-up glass cannon right now), if not "Strong". As it is, none of the times I kill enemies in the dungeon with Windmill count for training except for the boss room gang thanks to this CP issue, and it's the same problem with my stronger characters: Dungeon Mobs hit nice and hard and can take quite a beating, but their CP rating doesn't match their strength, so no training credit for CP-dependent skills outside of the boss room.
The worst case was when I tried to run Coill to complete the quest to unlock Blaze on my main. Spider enemies that were ranked "Weakest" were made of iron and hitting like freight trains. Enemies that were supposedly on par with my character or "Strong" were boss tier beasts who were taking my guy out in one shot. The un-changed CP ratings create a form of fake difficulty by lulling the player (especially newer players...and, I fear, most especially those who aren't seasoned gamers in any capacity beyond the odd puzzle game and/or just hack-and-slash their way through everything trying to speed-run on pure brute strength with no understanding of things like strategy or resource management) into a false sense of security that can cause them to become overconfident, let their guard down, and get wrecked...and still get no training exp. for your CP-dependent skills. Well, at least you have whatever gold and loot you managed to pick up before you got destroyed to comfort your battered soul.
As for the training bit, sure, you could train in Shadow Missions, but finding people to run things at random can be basically impossible if the mission's not a daily, the missions that can be soloed while still throwing you enemies at the right CP rating can become tedious and repetitive after the 900th time herding freaking zombies or trying to put unconscious enemies together close enough to be in range of your pitiful-oars pre-rank 1 Windmill range (Windmill=Magicarp), and calling on friends or guild mates to help can be either awkward (I always feel like I'm imposing on whatever adventures they planned on for the day) or fruitless (no one on your friends list online). Plus, running back and forth to the mission board is a bit of a pain. Dungeons are instantly repeatable with layouts that change from instance to instance (Not just enemy or goal placement changing on a map that never changes, actual maps that vary from run to run, keeping things interesting), can be entered alone even if you're technically too low level (Say, you're finding your current toughest dungeon too easy, you can freely challenge yourself with the next toughest to test your mettle), and Normal difficulty can be entered easily so long as you have some Small *insert color here* Gems or other random junk in your inventory (I don't like dropping money, not even one gold, so I keep random junk on me for dungeon passes). Honestly, this game's dungeon crawling is a lot more fun than Shadow Missions. I hit the dungeons multiple times per day for treasure and adventure. I hit the Shadow Realm...basically, only when I can't find the enemies I need for training in the field or in the dungeons. Sad, but true.
Honestly, the dungeons are my favorite thing in this game. Fixing the erroneous CP ratings on the dungeon mobs so that I can have my fun and train there effectively too would just make my day!