Check out all of the details of this month's Patch Notes, featuring the Reflections: Reforged update!
https://mabinogi.nexon.net/news/69963/reflections-reforged-patch-notes-november-4th-2021
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New KR update to help newbies

Comments

  • HankrillonHankrillon
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,275
    Posts: 33
    Member
    edited July 5, 2018
    Liyeta wrote: »
    Hankrillon wrote: »
    Liyeta wrote: »
    Oh, i remember mobile game that did this. They buff up the leveling pace then remove the bonus after certain level hoping that new player will catch up with the vet.

    But nope, what they get is salty vets and unimpressed newbie that think the game is too easy. They usually leave after all the gift showering end and give a bad review saying things like "great game but its a grind after level 5k".

    Yea its a really popular tactics for trashy p2w mobile game. Whats next ? Auto pathing and auto questing ?

    If the dev really care for the player they should refine the social experience and make sure leveling+skill training are paced properly so playing the game feels enjoyable.

    You think you could solo phantasm at just 5k? Even if you could, you'd still need a lot of high tier gear to get through it, which isn't that easy to get especially if you're new. Not to mention you still have to actually train your skills and use the ap you get handed, but still 5k ap won't get you close to finishing all the skills in the game, and on top of that echo stone reforges which cost even more ap, making that free 5k even more minuscule.

    … What are you talking about ?
    You can finish training all skill in under level 1k.

    And stop answering your own question. Yes, You can solo phantasm at level 5k. As for the gear… its easy to get, there is people selling it 24/7. If you decide to do it yourself, dragon raid drop are random regardless of your contribution plus 5k is strong enough to not dying in dragon raid.

    Eco stone use ap!!!1!1!1!
    Just buy premade one if making one bother you so much.

    If you are being smart about it, you can get more than 10k ap from leveling 1-5k.

    You can even have 2 active master talent in under level 1k if you are dedicated enough.

    You completely missed the point lol.

    "You can finish training all skill in under level 1k."
    Of course you can, but you still need ap???? To actually have all those skills ranked????
    And on top of that, effort???? You know, to go sit down and actually train all those skills, which might be "easy" but still takes a while.

    "there's people selling gear 24/7"
    Okay sure, but the gold????? You need to get the gold to buy it?????

    "Dragon raid drop are random"
    Mhm, meaning the game will either be harder or easier depending on your luck, this point you tried to make does not matter.

    "Just buy premade one if making one bother you so much"
    Gold???? You have to grind for gold?????

    The game's easy if you decide to pour money into it, but if you just play without spending anything it's a lot harder.

    "If you are being smart about it, you can get more than 10k ap from leveling 1-5k."
    Okay cool so about a 3rd of all your skills can be trained all at once!!! You still need like 23k ap to rank the rest of them.

    "You can even have 2 active master talent in under level 1k if you are dedicated enough."
    And your point is? That takes effort, which means it's not "too easy".
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    edited July 5, 2018
    Liyeta wrote: »
    Hankrillon wrote: »
    Liyeta wrote: »
    Oh, i remember mobile game that did this. They buff up the leveling pace then remove the bonus after certain level hoping that new player will catch up with the vet.

    But nope, what they get is salty vets and unimpressed newbie that think the game is too easy. They usually leave after all the gift showering end and give a bad review saying things like "great game but its a grind after level 5k".

    Yea its a really popular tactics for trashy p2w mobile game. Whats next ? Auto pathing and auto questing ?

    If the dev really care for the player they should refine the social experience and make sure leveling+skill training are paced properly so playing the game feels enjoyable.

    You think you could solo phantasm at just 5k? Even if you could, you'd still need a lot of high tier gear to get through it, which isn't that easy to get especially if you're new. Not to mention you still have to actually train your skills and use the ap you get handed, but still 5k ap won't get you close to finishing all the skills in the game, and on top of that echo stone reforges which cost even more ap, making that free 5k even more minuscule.

    … What are you talking about ?
    You can finish training all skill in under level 1k.

    And stop answering your own question. Yes, You can solo phantasm at level 5k. As for the gear… its easy to get, there is people selling it 24/7. If you decide to do it yourself, dragon raid drop are random regardless of your contribution plus 5k is strong enough to not dying in dragon raid.

    Eco stone use ap!!!1!1!1!
    Just buy premade one if making one bother you so much.

    If you are being smart about it, you can get more than 10k ap from leveling 1-5k.

    You can even have 2 active master talent in under level 1k if you are dedicated enough.

    Well I guess we know how you got your gold lmao.

    A level 30 echostone is like 80m+ assuming the stats aren't awful. The price just goes up from there if it has anything useful.

    I very highly doubt there's anyone under 5k with phantasm breaker title, and I also doubt the people on here claiming it's that easy to get have even attempted it, let alone attempted a solo run. As of right now there's like 20 people with phantasm breaker on alexina (at least as far as rumor goes) sure people are selling good gear all the time but there's no way you're gonna be able to afford even decent CRKs at that point. Having 2 master talents under 1k doesn't mean anything either because you could have apothecary and carpentry both at master and that uses like...

    basically what @Hankrillon said. It's a nice theory, but that's all it is a theory.

    Step 1 rank all your skills
    Step 2 buy gear
    Step 3 Solo phantasm

    Alright guys, wrap it up it's too easy you can describe it in 3 steps.
    Seddie
  • NixonPlsNixonPls
    Mabinogi Rep: 200
    Posts: 7
    Member
    This is a good change for the game. I had a friend quit because he was constantly ap starved in the beginning.
  • LokitinLokitin
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,760
    Posts: 60
    Member
    Levels don't mean ish, and people need to stop acting like levels mean ish.

    Okay, sure, levels can indicate how long someone has been playing, and what kind of opportunity (AP) they've had to advance their skills...but the amount of AP you've gotten means squat if you don't use it wisely, and most noobs don't know how to do that. Giving them fast 5k levels seems like a lazy way to compensate for that...like, "here, go ahead and waste AP on egg gathering and hoeing because you're getting AP left and right anyway". I think this is just going to backfire and make noobs even more frustrated because they'll be even more tempted to advance skills across all talents, and then wonder why they're still weak...instead of focusing on mastering one or two talents at a time.

    Similar to why handing out powerful equips to newbies is criticized, this sort of update will only encourage a steamrolling mindset instead of playing the game as originally intended; strategically. Vet's levels may seem "intimidating" to newbies, but that's what makes them vets...they've worked hard to get where they're at. They're the example of what you could have/do when you put in the work, time, and strategy. Besides, if everyone is "OP", then no one is. It's going to become an endless of cycle of: "There's nothing to do anymore, everything is too easy" > "This is too hard! We need easier ways to upgrade!"
    This isn't the age of once-a-month rebirths, anymore. Newbies get to rebirth every day, and then once a week after lvl 1k. That's plenty of opportunity to get "easy" AP. And let's not act like levels are the only way to get AP...quests, exploration, events, are all great alternatives. Being limited in the amount/speed of levels you can gain encourages players to play the rest of the game rather than merely grinding mobs for levels. Yeah, it takes effort...if you don't want to make the effort, then wait a week until you can rebirth. If you don't want to wait or make the effort, then this game isn't for you.

    I've been able to master 2 (almost 3) talents under 1k, with over 600 AP to spare, because I knew what I was doing. I think instead of enabling newbie's bad habit of advancing whatever is available to be advanced, we should be giving them directions on how to play smart. It's sad to see this game going in the direction of making "who can do the most dmg" or "who can steamroll the fastest" the end goal rather than playing for the experience of adventure and earned achievements. What fun is it to have everything handed to you?
    Imaizumi
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    Lokitin wrote: »
    Levels don't mean ish, and people need to stop acting like levels mean ish.

    Okay, sure, levels can indicate how long someone has been playing, and what kind of opportunity (AP) they've had to advance their skills...but the amount of AP you've gotten means squat if you don't use it wisely, and most noobs don't know how to do that. Giving them fast 5k levels seems like a lazy way to compensate for that...like, "here, go ahead and waste AP on egg gathering and hoeing because you're getting AP left and right anyway". I think this is just going to backfire and make noobs even more frustrated because they'll be even more tempted to advance skills across all talents, and then wonder why they're still weak...instead of focusing on mastering one or two talents at a time.

    Similar to why handing out powerful equips to newbies is criticized, this sort of update will only encourage a steamrolling mindset instead of playing the game as originally intended; strategically. Vet's levels may seem "intimidating" to newbies, but that's what makes them vets...they've worked hard to get where they're at. They're the example of what you could have/do when you put in the work, time, and strategy. Besides, if everyone is "OP", then no one is. It's going to become an endless of cycle of: "There's nothing to do anymore, everything is too easy" > "This is too hard! We need easier ways to upgrade!"
    This isn't the age of once-a-month rebirths, anymore. Newbies get to rebirth every day, and then once a week after lvl 1k. That's plenty of opportunity to get "easy" AP. And let's not act like levels are the only way to get AP...quests, exploration, events, are all great alternatives. Being limited in the amount/speed of levels you can gain encourages players to play the rest of the game rather than merely grinding mobs for levels. Yeah, it takes effort...if you don't want to make the effort, then wait a week until you can rebirth. If you don't want to wait or make the effort, then this game isn't for you.

    I've been able to master 2 (almost 3) talents under 1k, with over 600 AP to spare, because I knew what I was doing. I think instead of enabling newbie's bad habit of advancing whatever is available to be advanced, we should be giving them directions on how to play smart. It's sad to see this game going in the direction of making "who can do the most dmg" or "who can steamroll the fastest" the end goal rather than playing for the experience of adventure and earned achievements. What fun is it to have everything handed to you?

    This isn't meant to be an attack on you by any means, just quoting it because it leads into my point.
    Levels mean a lot, it's the difference between someone who can run phantasm vs someone who does solo rooms faster than most parties can do a room together. At total level 40k shine skill adds nearly 400 to all stats. That's an extra none boosted 160 Max damage. When you're stacking things like bonechip/overture that difference is monstrous.

    As for advancing as a new player:
    -You can reset for free under 1k. Abuse this. Get your talent level to expert for the journal entry ap boost and reset, do this until every talent is expert.
    -Do your saga's and story lines they give ap directly, and ap pots
    -Do daily sms, they give AP coupons
    -Do baltane missions (if you can) as KotRT, Counterattack, and Siege Weapon all drop ap seals.
  • LokitinLokitin
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,760
    Posts: 60
    Member
    edited July 9, 2018
    Hellkaizer wrote: »

    This isn't meant to be an attack on you by any means, just quoting it because it leads into my point.
    Levels mean a lot, it's the difference between someone who can run phantasm vs someone who does solo rooms faster than most parties can do a room together. At total level 40k shine skill adds nearly 400 to all stats. That's an extra none boosted 160 Max damage. When you're stacking things like bonechip/overture that difference is monstrous.

    Certainly there comes a point where levels indicate your strength and mean something. All I meant was, a player who's strategically mastered a talent or two at level 500 could be far more effective in combat than a 1k (or even 2k) player who's used their AP poorly and relies too much on their equips. Someone who's 40k is obviously going to be god-like since we can safely assume they haven't been sitting around twiddling their thumbs and neglecting to advance their skills/stats in all that time...not to mention the stat boost. Anyway, I just see so many people intimidate noobs with their 2k total level, when the reality is that it might not mean all that much right now.
    But it comes back to this...what's the goal here? What's the point of giving newbies an easy 5k levels? Just so they're a drop in the bucket closer to being able to steamroll Phantasm/[ insert combat scenario here ]? That's not the point of the game...


    Imaizumi
  • MeridisMeridis
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,010
    Posts: 51
    Member
    Lokitin wrote: »
    Hellkaizer wrote: »

    This isn't meant to be an attack on you by any means, just quoting it because it leads into my point.
    Levels mean a lot, it's the difference between someone who can run phantasm vs someone who does solo rooms faster than most parties can do a room together. At total level 40k shine skill adds nearly 400 to all stats. That's an extra none boosted 160 Max damage. When you're stacking things like bonechip/overture that difference is monstrous.

    Certainly there comes a point where levels indicate your strength and mean something. All I meant was, a player who's strategically mastered a talent or two at level 500 could be far more effective in combat than a 1k (or even 2k) player who's used their AP poorly and relies too much on their equips. Someone who's 40k is obviously going to be god-like since we can safely assume they haven't been sitting around twiddling their thumbs and neglecting to advance their skills/stats in all that time...not to mention the stat boost. Anyway, I just see so many people intimidate noobs with their 2k total level, when the reality is that it might not mean all that much right now.
    But it comes back to this...what's the goal here? What's the point of giving newbies an easy 5k levels? Just so they're a drop in the bucket closer to being able to steamroll Phantasm/[ insert combat scenario here ]? That's not the point of the game...


    seems like it's mostly so that newbies could quickly develop enough to get through the lvl limits for newer content and get a taste for all the different things they could do...lvl limits they added to the game to keep newbies out...IT MAKES SENSE, I SWEAR! OONG SUNG PARK TOLD ME SO!
    Bronzebreak
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,580
    Posts: 943
    Member
    It takes like 60k+ ap just to max all your skills.
    I don't see how 10k ap is gonna make a difference.
    I'm only level 960 with 7k and still have talents to do for the journal.
    On top of that your total level you can gain per year is 10,400.
    If you have that with two times its 20,800. But chance are you aren't gonna get x2 for all 200 levels (especially with in an hour)
    Taking that into account its like 3-6 years to have all your skills maxed out.

    If people are gonna quit cause they hit 5k then let them.
    This is coming from someone who purposely wont go past ttl 1k.
  • ShaeliShaeli
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,430
    Posts: 359
    Member
    Opalthira wrote: »
    It takes like 60k+ ap just to max all your skills..

    More like 25000.

    I'm at 19k/5k total base/exploration and have more than enough AP to max out the six skills I have left unfinished (enchant/synthesis/mineralogy/ecology/engineering/magic craft), and those six aren't done because 1) two jobs leaves me no time, and 2) I'd rather have my fingernails pulled out than grind them.

  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,580
    Posts: 943
    Member
    Shaeli wrote: »
    Opalthira wrote: »
    It takes like 60k+ ap just to max all your skills..

    More like 25000.

    I'm at 19k/5k total base/exploration and have more than enough AP to max out the six skills I have left unfinished (enchant/synthesis/mineralogy/ecology/engineering/magic craft), and those six aren't done because 1) two jobs leaves me no time, and 2) I'd rather have my fingernails pulled out than grind them.

    I don't see how cause All the int skills alone take like 8k ap
    Strength skills take like 9-10k ap

    I might have added simliar skills together but thats still like 18k for just two stat trees of 5.
    Which doesn't even include Hp,Stam, and MP based skills. (even though some of them probably tie into each other)
  • IyasenuIyasenu
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,260
    Posts: 2,887
    Member
    Opalthira wrote: »
    Shaeli wrote: »
    Opalthira wrote: »
    It takes like 60k+ ap just to max all your skills..

    More like 25000.

    I'm at 19k/5k total base/exploration and have more than enough AP to max out the six skills I have left unfinished (enchant/synthesis/mineralogy/ecology/engineering/magic craft), and those six aren't done because 1) two jobs leaves me no time, and 2) I'd rather have my fingernails pulled out than grind them.

    I don't see how cause All the int skills alone take like 8k ap
    Strength skills take like 9-10k ap

    I might have added simliar skills together but thats still like 18k for just two stat trees of 5.
    Which doesn't even include Hp,Stam, and MP based skills. (even though some of them probably tie into each other)

    According to the lists on the wiki, it should be 33k~34k AP for all rank 1 skills.
    Slight variances depending on race, of course.

    Though that's gonna go up a little bit with G21S2, since the new transformation skills need AP like normal.
  • ShouKShouK
    Mabinogi Rep: 4,735
    Posts: 824
    Member
    Shaeli wrote: »
    Opalthira wrote: »
    It takes like 60k+ ap just to max all your skills..

    More like 25000.

    I'm at 19k/5k total base/exploration and have more than enough AP to max out the six skills I have left unfinished (enchant/synthesis/mineralogy/ecology/engineering/magic craft), and those six aren't done because 1) two jobs leaves me no time, and 2) I'd rather have my fingernails pulled out than grind them.
    Yeah it doesn’t take that much ap to max your skills. I just hit 14k ttl (and 2k ish exploration) this week and finally have enough ap to max all skills (except the combat dan ranks because I like to pretend they don’t exist).
  • SiodhanSiodhan
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,825
    Posts: 315
    Member
    Don't forget that a lot of events, one-time storylines and squire quests, daily quests, daily clears of some content and various other sources give us a metric eff-ton of extra ap that really quickly racks up. Helping people catch up is an idea meant well and needed to some degree, but that's not going to make it or break it.
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,580
    Posts: 943
    Member
    Siodhan wrote: »
    Don't forget that a lot of events, one-time storylines and squire quests, daily quests, daily clears of some content and various other sources give us a metric eff-ton of extra ap that really quickly racks up. Helping people catch up is an idea meant well and needed to some degree, but that's not going to make it or break it.

    Its like 50 ap per event over the course of like 30 days.
    Iyasenu wrote: »
    Opalthira wrote: »
    Shaeli wrote: »
    Opalthira wrote: »
    It takes like 60k+ ap just to max all your skills..

    More like 25000.

    I'm at 19k/5k total base/exploration and have more than enough AP to max out the six skills I have left unfinished (enchant/synthesis/mineralogy/ecology/engineering/magic craft), and those six aren't done because 1) two jobs leaves me no time, and 2) I'd rather have my fingernails pulled out than grind them.

    I don't see how cause All the int skills alone take like 8k ap
    Strength skills take like 9-10k ap

    I might have added simliar skills together but thats still like 18k for just two stat trees of 5.
    Which doesn't even include Hp,Stam, and MP based skills. (even though some of them probably tie into each other)

    According to the lists on the wiki, it should be 33k~34k AP for all rank 1 skills.
    Slight variances depending on race, of course.

    Though that's gonna go up a little bit with G21S2, since the new transformation skills need AP like normal.

    Yeah i accidentally added all the demi god and trans skills as ap
  • GeluberserkGeluberserk
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,470
    Posts: 95
    Member
    I am of the mindset that this is a necessary change. We have so many talents now that it's overwhelming for new players to get into the game. Top that off with Mabinogi's major selling point is to "do whatever you want" new players will be starved trying to do just that. Giving them the AP to let them try out the 15+ talents can only be beneficial and this is only proven by their change to let new players reset skills at any point for free.

    This is a change that can only benefit everyone. New players have more incentives to play this game and as a result hopefully increases the player base, mid-game players have more people to access for materials/parties, and vets have more incentive to stay in a stagnating game. I cannot imagine a losing scenario unless you view other players having ease of access being a detriment, and on this point I have to ask, "does it really matter someone didn't struggle as much as you?"
    VeylaineSeddie
  • VeylaineVeylaine
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,850
    Posts: 348
    Member
    edited July 15, 2018
    I am of the mindset that this is a necessary change. We have so many talents now that it's overwhelming for new players to get into the game. Top that off with Mabinogi's major selling point is to "do whatever you want" new players will be starved trying to do just that. Giving them the AP to let them try out the 15+ talents can only be beneficial and this is only proven by their change to let new players reset skills at any point for free.

    This is a change that can only benefit everyone. New players have more incentives to play this game and as a result hopefully increases the player base, mid-game players have more people to access for materials/parties, and vets have more incentive to stay in a stagnating game. I cannot imagine a losing scenario unless you view other players having ease of access being a detriment, and on this point I have to ask, "does it really matter someone didn't struggle as much as you?"

    Not mention the only real worries that this could cause is faster burn out and maybe entitlement ( this one would be more focused on case by case basis )

    Yeah for the most part on the grand scheme of things level MAY not matter but even with that argument this update is not bad maybe not good but no way bad probably neutral , so overall this will be mostly be a positive update.
  • BronzezenBronzezen
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,150
    Posts: 16
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    edited August 3, 2018
    Hey just putting my 2 cents in here.. wheres that server merge lmao
    deepdrakeImaizumi
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,735
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    Member
    Bronzezen wrote: »
    Hey just putting my 2 cents in here.. wheres that server merge lmao

    Nowhere.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 63,705
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    Member
    Bronzezen wrote: »
    Hey just putting my 2 cents in here.. wheres that server marge lmao

    Fixed.