Cho

Tsumuku wrote: »

I can't even blame the players that are doing this

Honestly, you should. They're doing this to get an advantage over legitimate players while actively making the game look less appealing.

it is nearing a requirement to be competitive in leveling or getting items from events

If everyone was doing it, it would be the norm and they would cheat the system in other ways until everyone is just hacking.

Nexon Korea said they were trying to fix the multiclienting problem in their region back in 2021 saying they were going to limit it until eventually banning it. As far as you can tell with google translate, they wanted to create an environment where people wouldn't want to multiclient but for some reason, they decided to make smoldering threads tradeable and obtainable by characters that don't even have Arcana unlocked so maybe they fixed it over there.

Their difference is that it's allowed without using 3rd party programs apparently. I doubt NA staff doesn't know about the alt abuse here. Thinking optimistically, they probably just don't want to bring attention to it because they can't do anything about it. I just don't understand why they can't just search for the mods that allow it on google and send it to KR so they can blacklist it on the anti-cheat or something. It's not a well kept secret.

This is cringe. Server merge did nothing but cause problems. Names were stolen, pet names still have that ugly +server tag, girg raids are still empty. It took 2 whole years for them to let us to block bugle spam.

Do you just miss seeing tons of people afk in Dunbarton? Tired of seeing short-sighted people ask for merges just so when the hype goes down, there'll only be 1 low population server so people can start asking if the game is dead. Think about the game and about others for once instead of your ego.

The changes to Thunder make it so that it triggers faster after casting it. The problem is that it gives you no time to charge new magic after casting it. Enemies running to you during Thunder's multiple hits end up flying towards you on the last hit somehow and it puts you in danger.

Thunder currently gets overshadowed by Fireball. Something that made Thunder unique was that it could be fired at 1~4 charges but still did damage pretty quickly compared to Ice Spear's long freeze. It also didn't stop your allies from attacking during the initial stun. Now that you can fire 1-charge Fireballs from any magic weapon, Thunder just becomes a smaller area, more unsafe Fireball.

Thunder should have it's 1st hit stun reverted to give players time to charge other spells while enemies are being hit. A different solution would be to give Thunder 5-hits on all charges and have the damage scale with the amount of charges. Even during a 1-charge Thunder, you would be able prepare your next spell.

nomigid15 wrote: »

* Firebolt, Icebolt, Lightning Bolt, Fireball, Ice Spear, Thunder, Blaze, Shockwave, Flame Burst, Water Cannon, Wind Blast, Life Drain, Heat Buster, Sand Burst, Shock, Frozen Blast, Elven Magic Missile (all types), Fire Breath, and all Cerberus bolts ​trigger Absorption.

There's also explosions. You can block sulfur spider explosions in Provocation with Fire Shield so I think it should count as fire magic. And then there's certain boss moves. IDK all of them but I know Dragons have Dragon Fire Ball where they fly up and drop it on you and Languhiris has a big AoE freeze move but I'm not sure if it's blockable with Ice Shield. Merrow and Bran have their AoE water and lightning attacks.

Zunqivo wrote: »

Think about this, if you were playing Pre-Genesis, did you ever fight enemies like a Bear for fun after the first time you killed one? What about Dungeon rooms, did you defeat every single enemy that spawned with the orbs? Or did you want to run past them? Same with Mimic pits or the Mimic corner rooms. Yeah, it was fun for the first few times, but combat was and still is extremely tedious.

The way how the combat system in Mabinogi is doesn't work anymore. If you remember the 2020 Community Survey, 57% of all players that answered it started the game over 9 years ago. Yes, this is a survey and not a hard statistic, but even for just the players that want to answer surveys, that is definitely not okay. A large majority of the playerbase started when the game was in its infancy, while only a few players joined and stuck with the game for the past 8 years. And one of the many big reasons why the game doesn't appeal to prospective/new players is that the combat isn't fun, and it never was fun for them. People play old games with fun gameplay all the time (Runescape, Super Smash Bros. Melee, Super Mario 64, etc.), and the gamers nowadays don't enjoy playing Mabinogi.

I have fought enemies like a Bear for fun, pre-Genesis, because as you're ranking up your skills, they get stronger and it makes you want to test your damage against something that used to be difficult. For instance, I might've wanted to see the way Windmill's range increases at r5 and r1 and I would test it out on the Bears near Dunbarton. Of course it gets old eventually and combat becomes a flowchart for killing enemies. This is true for all games. Do you think someone is pogging when they kill a basic enemy in Runescape or a Goomba in Mario 64? The first time, it might feel exciting beat but eventually you just start to avoid them when you get better at the game.

Zunqivo wrote: »

And one of the many big reasons why the game doesn't appeal to prospective/new players is that the combat isn't fun, and it never was fun for them. People play old games with fun gameplay all the time (Runescape, Super Smash Bros. Melee, Super Mario 64, etc.), and the gamers nowadays don't enjoy playing Mabinogi.

You could argue it's because it doesn't have mainstream fame. The people who like Mabinogi tend to stick with it. There's no other game like it. If you're comparing it to Runescape, Runescape is a classic that people will learn about from the countless Twitch streamers that play it and older gamers who had it as their first MMO and a lot of the time, even the players don't find it fun. They're grinding woodcutting the same way we're grinding weaving but the stars just aligned correctly for Runescape.

Mario 64 and Melee are the same way. These are games from peoples' childhood. They have a lot of bias attached without the same stigma . People hate Nexon, vigorously, for absolutely no reason yet people praise miHoyo when their monetization is way more aggressive and to a wider audience and that says something.

Zunqivo wrote: »

Just because there's a dash button doesn't mean that they will put in one-shot mechanics or unbalanced AOE attacks. Games like FFXIV and Genshin Impact still don't have one-shot mechanics, but are fun to play because the dash/dodge options allow them to kite or maneuver around the attacks. No, these games aren't necessarily hard in the grand scheme of things, but the player feels challenged enough to have fun without the games being frustrating. That's the balance that a dash button will try to achieve.

The playing field has changed. This is why I suggested that the developers implement a modern ability found in many popular games with great success - the dash button. The Pre-Genesis style of RPS/AI Prediction, along with the Post-Genesis style of mobility and instant skill-loading, have been proven multiple times to no longer work. The real spirit of Mabinogi is the ability to use any weapon and any skillset whenever you want. It's the freedom of combat that gives Mabinogi its edge over other games within the genre. It's not about AI predictions or RPS combat anymore, as gamers nowadays don't care for it or don't want to put in the time to learn it.

We disagree on this. The spirit of Mabi is learning and growth. You learn enemy attack patterns. (Wolves like to counter, Bears like to run up and Smash, Ogres most likely have stomp, Ghosts teleport behind you after you knock them back) You learn different ways to easily secure materials. (Metallurgy > Refining > Ingot Synthesis or Fragmenting 50 Potions for basic herbs instead of scouring a dungeon) Your skills grow heavily at ranks 9, 5, and 1 and things that were difficult (like crafting) become a lot easier. But like you said, it's not fun when the solution is to just brute force it with high stats.

Nowadays, Mabinogi would be a bit too complex for the average gamer but that doesn't mean it should alienate it's existing playerbase to casualize the gameplay to imitate modern action games. You use FFXIV and Genshin as comparisons. I don't play either of these games but from what it looks like, Genshin is a hack and slash action game. We have dashes in the hack and slash action Mabinogi called Vindictus. As for FFXIV, from what I looked up, the sprint ability is a speed buff similar to March Song. (No idea if specific classes have their own dashes) As well as the fact that FFXIV is a different type of MMO. It's the click/wait/skill rotation spam type where the only type of difficulty that the devs can give to raid bosses is by making everything a bullet hell by creating danger spaces on the ground. Movement probably doesn't matter outside of raids and telegraphed attacks since every enemy tracks the player. Meanwhile, in Mabi, positioning is important even in solo play.

And you said it yourself that Crom Bas has one-shot AoE patterns at a certain amount of health. You see random AoEs on bosses like Merrow and Song of Grief. If they were to add a dash. Logically, they would then add more mechanics like AoEs to dodge, getting out of danger zones, AoE boss dashes etc.

Zunqivo wrote: »

Most players who play an MMORPG for the first time will give the game 2 hours to see if the game is right for them. If you need to tell them that the good fights and good bosses take over 10 hours of gameplay to get to, they will quit the game. You need to ease in the player to get to these telegraphed mechanics by sprinkling them in early on, which is why I brought up Gray Wolves. They're an early game mob that would teach the player about the dash button, and as the player continues with their adventure through Generations or content, they'll find more attack patterns that they can avoid to try and deal damage.

I'm pretty sure most players either get hooked or they dont. Convincing someone to dedicate a lot of time into an MMO isn't easy and a lot of MMOs that are successful, get new players because players want to play the popular game with the big playerbase. If they're successful, it's easy to stay successful unless they actively mess it up.

I've played many MMOs and a lot of the good ones show the players early, what they'll be like when they're high level. You see that in Mabi with some of the few Talent introduction videos, like Close Combat or Ninja. They also show you your future in Tin's talent testing area when you first make your character. Mabi is an open-ended game so there's nothing stopping someone from running straight to Rundal and dying at level 10. The generations do a good job of taking the player to different places. Blaanid and Stardust Sponsorships also encourage the player to try new things in different areas.

Regarding avoiding attack patterns, that's the RPS system's job but it's flawed now because of the long cooldowns on counter and defense. If you don't one-shot or almost one-shot, you have to go through all of your skills in a rotation and hope you don't still have crucial ones on cooldown before the enemy dies.

Zunqivo wrote: »

If the main way we all get past intended mechanics is by not doing them, then it makes you wonder why did they waste their time in putting effort into making these mechanics in the first place. The game doesn't feel cohesive or well-thought out if players are just going to find ways to not play the game. This is the pinnacle of bad game design, you don't want the playerbase to not play the game because the normal way isn't fun.

You could argue about the game design but it doesn't mean that it's unappealing. Dark Souls meta is all about abusing enemy AI, leading them off cliffs, attacking through barriers, and cheesing your way through the game. Smash Bros Melee's wavedashing and other techniques are all exploits and in each new Smash Bros, players look for exploits "because the normal way isn't fun". These are two highly regarded games. Even in platformers, devs put skip paths in the game to get around the normal way of play and players will still find shorter shortcuts because the exploration of shaving down time is fun. There's absolutely no way, when they made Sidhe Finnachaid and the entire Memento questline, that they didn't know that you could Dance of Death the "immune to everything" fish and skip using the Sword of Strife. I find it hard to believe the bone dragons low resistance to magic was just overlooked.

Zunqivo wrote: »

Mabinogi's combat system has no depth. It never has. Not even with the Pre-Genesis combat system, where the game was pushing to the point where people will one-shot or cheese everything already (and ignore RPS/AI predictions), and not with the Post-Genesis system where we still have one-shots and cheese on everything already (and ignore RPS/AI predictions), and not with the Post-Genesis system where we still have one-shots and cheese on everything. A universal mobility skill gives the game real depth and breathes new life into the combat system, for new players and old time veterans alike.

This is incredibly wrong. When you fighting something that's on your level you can start with Smash, then either wait for it to run back and defend or counter. If not, you can Assault Slash and follow up with Windmill. While Windmilling, you can load defense and when you block you can delay and use another Windmill or attack and knock the enemy back. There's a flow. With archery there's synergies with icebolt's or Celestial Spikes slow to give you more aiming time, or putting up a barrier spike, or using a Shadow Golem to draw aggro to pick things off, or taming an enemy to support your range, if you don't have access to a pet.

There's so much depth with how wolves like to counter, or knowing that poison goblins will multi-aggro you with goblin archers, or knowing that stomp doesn't affect you at the same range when you're walking. There's so much I could list but because overpowered players one-shot content way below their level or because later boss content doesn't use RPS doesn't mean that the game has no depth.

The real issue is that later content is having less and less counterplay and you get punished when the game says that you can't Sand Burst this enemy with the Sand Burst you spent so much time ranking up or this enemy is immune to freeze or knockdowns. The fact that you can't use Anchor Rush or Tumble in Crom Bas is disgusting. No specific lore reason, just to make things more difficult when you don't have a way of avoid AoEs. Adding dashing as a basic ability means:

1. Telegraphed AoEs can become a staple in the combat. This means more Crom Bas one-shots circles, more Song of Grief going invincible and spamming AoEs. More random Sephirot/Dragon Swipes. More enemies with Meteor Strike.

2. Positioning means nothing anymore. You can chase down enemies with your skills, be very reckless, and just dash away when they're on cooldown. This then trivialize any enemies that don't use telegraphed magic/range/lunges. You would have to add dashing and AoEs to every enemy.