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1356

Merge Alexina

Comments

  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,715
    Posts: 2,818
    Member
    edited September 24, 2020
    noobodyzxz wrote: »
    Just go and transfer to Nao
    dont drag us into the complicated world of getting merged
    Alexina is doing fine as it is
    claiming Alexina and Nao as database clusters and channels are servers doesn't make any difference
    same problems will still happened and even if they get resolved there will always be someone who would find faults and complain
    nobody has time for this merge why waste time for this merge spamming post
    I'm too lazy to argue with this
    I did my best and done my research
    I'll just flag this as petition and spamming everytime it gets posted
    and since its an old topic being revisited over and over It could also be considered necrobumping
    I've decided to stop throwing stones on the hive and just drag it down
    I'll definitely get stinged alot

    thats literally just censoring the topic... if people wanna talk about a merge they can.
    Helsa wrote: »
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    WOT WARNING
    Unfortunately, there won't be a merge happening anytime soon and the main culprit for this is paid name change and the way the database is set up; more on that later. The merge of 2019 happened because the three original servers had dangerously declined and declining activity. At present, the level of activity on Alexina is noticeably less than it was pre-merge but is still greater that what it was on the most active of the other servers just before the merge. So, under that way of thinking Alexina does not presently have bad enough numbers to merge it. Why, in the first place, Alexina was left out and why the game was launched as a multi-server offering rather than a single many channel version has never been made clear by Nexon. They are notoriously opaque about such things so what can you do except speculate.

    When the 2019 merge happened there was a massive cockerel-up with respect to duplicate names. This is because the game uses character name with server of residence as our character record's primary key. Primary Key's have to be unique for every record in the database. When the servers were merged records containing duplicate names, which had existed copacetically on different servers, were no long unique. So, the "+server" tag was appended to character names to make them unique once more. Some folks had aesthetic issues with this and Nexon responded by offering free, and then paid, name change. If a final merge were to happen now, it would follow the same process as the previous merge giving two scenarios:
    1) Since the residents of Nao had already had to withstand the naming issues, then their names are declared inviolate and Alexina characters only would have tags applied. This would be unfair to Alexina characters since they would be denied any chance at getting their unmodified name back, post merge, through the lottery that Nao users went through.
    2) The merge happens just as it did before with "+Nao" and "+Alexina" tags being applied. This would be unfair to Nao characters as they would have to be put in jeopardy yet another time.
    This is a zero-sum situation where someone loses. But it's worse than that. Because of paid name change, people on Nao AND Alexina have purchased names. But what about names people have paid for, are they exempt? Nexon would have to add a hidden field to each character record to indicate if it is a paid-for name. That should not be an impossible task. From their purchase records they should be able to reconstruct the data. Both the Paid Name Change text and the Name Change text say nothing about Nexon retaining the right to alter a purchased name of their own accord. But what if two different people have bought the same name on both servers then it is impossible to reconcile this situation. In other words, as things presently stand, merging Alexina, to be nice, is going to step on toes. This is why myself and others said that a partial and incomplete merge was the worst-case scenario. Once again Nexon is opaque on this.

    All finger pointing aside, what happens then if Alexina's numbers dwindle to critical ones? Given paid name change, CAN Nexon merge Alexina in? The answer is yes. There are two reasons:
    1) The Terms of Service and End User License Agreement section on indemnities (section VIII) allows them to because it makes it clear that even though you paid for your name you don't own the character sequence that populates the name field of your character record.
    2) There is already an establish precedent for Nexon altering paid-for names. When you create a character with a paid-for character card you have paid for that character, including it's name. Such characters had their names altered in the 2019 merge, establishing a precedent.
    So, while the database is set-up as it is Nexon is not going to merge Alexina in unless it has to, and if it has to it will.

    Moving forward Nexon can move away from using character name and server of residence as the primary key to, say, record number. Record numbers are unique. Of course this will require work including new code. Completed this would allow Nexon to merge without issue, but it would also allow for unlimited renaming. This would dramatically change the market size for name change since anyone and everyone could be called Goku or Kitsune or whatever. Hear that Nexon? MORE MONEY!!!!

    Oh right...oh crap. I didn't think of that. There were people who used the PAID name change service on Nao. Yeah they are right, this would essentially rip them off of that money. Now they can never merge Alexina, unless Alexina is willing to forfeit their ign's entirely. rip.

    And we can't do the last solution because reputations would be on the line. rip rip rip. smh.

    The ToSEULA is clear, Nexon can do whatever it wants, but whatever it does and however it does it will result in belly-aching from someone. Even the solution where they alter how the database is set up will result in complaints as some folks won't like that their name is no longer unique; I consider this the least troubling, overall, of all the scenarios. If Nexon was to make the necessary changes, as I outlined, then a merge is a nothing-burger. They could even make the merge using the 2019 method, either scenario, if they also announced that soon afterwards unlimited naming would come into effect, then the whole naming inconvenience thing would only be temporary.

    welp, can't make everyone happy i guess
    i just don't want to lose my names, the stress from the first merge was enough tyvm :(
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,570
    Posts: 5,859
    Member
    Sherri wrote: »
    noobodyzxz wrote: »
    Just go and transfer to Nao
    dont drag us into the complicated world of getting merged
    Alexina is doing fine as it is
    claiming Alexina and Nao as database clusters and channels are servers doesn't make any difference
    same problems will still happened and even if they get resolved there will always be someone who would find faults and complain
    nobody has time for this merge why waste time for this merge spamming post
    I'm too lazy to argue with this
    I did my best and done my research
    I'll just flag this as petition and spamming everytime it gets posted
    and since its an old topic being revisited over and over It could also be considered necrobumping
    I've decided to stop throwing stones on the hive and just drag it down
    I'll definitely get stinged alot

    thats literally just censoring the topic... if people wanna talk about a merge they can.
    Helsa wrote: »
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    WOT WARNING
    Unfortunately, there won't be a merge happening anytime soon and the main culprit for this is paid name change and the way the database is set up; more on that later. The merge of 2019 happened because the three original servers had dangerously declined and declining activity. At present, the level of activity on Alexina is noticeably less than it was pre-merge but is still greater that what it was on the most active of the other servers just before the merge. So, under that way of thinking Alexina does not presently have bad enough numbers to merge it. Why, in the first place, Alexina was left out and why the game was launched as a multi-server offering rather than a single many channel version has never been made clear by Nexon. They are notoriously opaque about such things so what can you do except speculate.

    When the 2019 merge happened there was a massive cockerel-up with respect to duplicate names. This is because the game uses character name with server of residence as our character record's primary key. Primary Key's have to be unique for every record in the database. When the servers were merged records containing duplicate names, which had existed copacetically on different servers, were no long unique. So, the "+server" tag was appended to character names to make them unique once more. Some folks had aesthetic issues with this and Nexon responded by offering free, and then paid, name change. If a final merge were to happen now, it would follow the same process as the previous merge giving two scenarios:
    1) Since the residents of Nao had already had to withstand the naming issues, then their names are declared inviolate and Alexina characters only would have tags applied. This would be unfair to Alexina characters since they would be denied any chance at getting their unmodified name back, post merge, through the lottery that Nao users went through.
    2) The merge happens just as it did before with "+Nao" and "+Alexina" tags being applied. This would be unfair to Nao characters as they would have to be put in jeopardy yet another time.
    This is a zero-sum situation where someone loses. But it's worse than that. Because of paid name change, people on Nao AND Alexina have purchased names. But what about names people have paid for, are they exempt? Nexon would have to add a hidden field to each character record to indicate if it is a paid-for name. That should not be an impossible task. From their purchase records they should be able to reconstruct the data. Both the Paid Name Change text and the Name Change text say nothing about Nexon retaining the right to alter a purchased name of their own accord. But what if two different people have bought the same name on both servers then it is impossible to reconcile this situation. In other words, as things presently stand, merging Alexina, to be nice, is going to step on toes. This is why myself and others said that a partial and incomplete merge was the worst-case scenario. Once again Nexon is opaque on this.

    All finger pointing aside, what happens then if Alexina's numbers dwindle to critical ones? Given paid name change, CAN Nexon merge Alexina in? The answer is yes. There are two reasons:
    1) The Terms of Service and End User License Agreement section on indemnities (section VIII) allows them to because it makes it clear that even though you paid for your name you don't own the character sequence that populates the name field of your character record.
    2) There is already an establish precedent for Nexon altering paid-for names. When you create a character with a paid-for character card you have paid for that character, including it's name. Such characters had their names altered in the 2019 merge, establishing a precedent.
    So, while the database is set-up as it is Nexon is not going to merge Alexina in unless it has to, and if it has to it will.

    Moving forward Nexon can move away from using character name and server of residence as the primary key to, say, record number. Record numbers are unique. Of course this will require work including new code. Completed this would allow Nexon to merge without issue, but it would also allow for unlimited renaming. This would dramatically change the market size for name change since anyone and everyone could be called Goku or Kitsune or whatever. Hear that Nexon? MORE MONEY!!!!

    Oh right...oh crap. I didn't think of that. There were people who used the PAID name change service on Nao. Yeah they are right, this would essentially rip them off of that money. Now they can never merge Alexina, unless Alexina is willing to forfeit their ign's entirely. rip.

    And we can't do the last solution because reputations would be on the line. rip rip rip. smh.

    The ToSEULA is clear, Nexon can do whatever it wants, but whatever it does and however it does it will result in belly-aching from someone. Even the solution where they alter how the database is set up will result in complaints as some folks won't like that their name is no longer unique; I consider this the least troubling, overall, of all the scenarios. If Nexon was to make the necessary changes, as I outlined, then a merge is a nothing-burger. They could even make the merge using the 2019 method, either scenario, if they also announced that soon afterwards unlimited naming would come into effect, then the whole naming inconvenience thing would only be temporary.

    welp, can't make everyone happy i guess
    i just don't want to lose my names, the stress from the first merge was enough tyvm :(

    My gut tells me that if Nexon doesn't solve the issue while they yet have the time, <sarcasm>and what are the odds of that?</sarcasm> . . . and it becomes time to merge Alexina in, that they will likely go with giving the shaft to Alexina, including to the ones there that paid for their names.
  • VimaVima
    Mabinogi Rep: 925
    Posts: 68
    Member
    I think giving Alexina players "the shaft" as you called it is the right thing to do, given how they treat each other. It would be a good lesson to them to start acting a little more appropriately.
    VasumatiPlatinaKoki
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 65,355
    Posts: 9,218
    Member
    Vima wrote: »
    I think giving Alexina players "the shaft" as you called it is the right thing to do, given how they treat each other. It would be a good lesson to them to start acting a little more appropriately.

    Yeah but they have been punished for almost 2 years now. I just think it's time to get this over with.
    Helsa
  • VimaVima
    Mabinogi Rep: 925
    Posts: 68
    Member
    Rewarding them for acting out will only make things worse. I stand by my opinion.
    PlatinaKoki
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,570
    Posts: 5,859
    Member
    Vima wrote: »
    I think giving Alexina players "the shaft" as you called it is the right thing to do, given how they treat each other. It would be a good lesson to them to start acting a little more appropriately.
    Vima wrote: »
    Rewarding them for acting out will only make things worse. I stand by my opinion.

    My stars what did they do to deserve that; how did they "act out"?
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 65,355
    Posts: 9,218
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    Vima wrote: »
    I think giving Alexina players "the shaft" as you called it is the right thing to do, given how they treat each other. It would be a good lesson to them to start acting a little more appropriately.
    Vima wrote: »
    Rewarding them for acting out will only make things worse. I stand by my opinion.

    My stars what did they do to deserve that; how did they "act out"?

    There's a picture of it in this thread.

    No more gin for you.
    Helsa
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,570
    Posts: 5,859
    Member
    edited September 26, 2020
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    No more gin for you.

    Now THAT'S just mean spirited. Get it? Mean SPIRITED. I kill me. :)
    Kensamaofmari
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 65,355
    Posts: 9,218
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    No more gin for you.

    Now THAT'S just mean spirited. Get it? Mean SPIRITED. I kill me. :)

    Oh I thought we were done with the puns. I guinness not.
    KensamaofmariHelsa
  • bubbascalbubbascal
    Mabinogi Rep: 420
    Posts: 2
    Member
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    Vima wrote: »
    I think giving Alexina players "the shaft" as you called it is the right thing to do, given how they treat each other. It would be a good lesson to them to start acting a little more appropriately.
    Vima wrote: »
    Rewarding them for acting out will only make things worse. I stand by my opinion.

    My stars what did they do to deserve that; how did they "act out"?

    There's a picture of it in this thread.

    No more gin for you.

    Wait, so... the picture of them saying "Merge Alexina" is grounds for... punishment? Am I reading this correctly?

    It's just a message that will probably despawn shortly, it's made of event study desks. Unless it's photoshopped or something as someone in this thread said. In which case, it's a edited image that could have been made by a single person.
    BronzebreakMermerie
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,745
    Posts: 7,909
    Member
    bubbascal wrote: »
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    Vima wrote: »
    I think giving Alexina players "the shaft" as you called it is the right thing to do, given how they treat each other. It would be a good lesson to them to start acting a little more appropriately.
    Vima wrote: »
    Rewarding them for acting out will only make things worse. I stand by my opinion.

    My stars what did they do to deserve that; how did they "act out"?

    There's a picture of it in this thread.

    No more gin for you.

    Wait, so... the picture of them saying "Merge Alexina" is grounds for... punishment? Am I reading this correctly?

    It's just a message that will probably despawn shortly, it's made of event study desks. Unless it's photoshopped or something as someone in this thread said. In which case, it's a edited image that could have been made by a single person.

    No I believe it goes back to Alexina players scoffing at the initial idea of the server merge and when it finally happened... many of them were like
    giphy.gif
    Crimsọn
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,570
    Posts: 5,859
    Member
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    No more gin for you.

    Now THAT'S just mean spirited. Get it? Mean SPIRITED. I kill me. :)

    Oh I thought we were done with the puns. I guinness not.

    Very punny; yakkity yak yak. BTW I love Guinness. Someone asked me once about what it tastes like, I said: "Take a full ashtray and mix it with water; it's good!"

    :)
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 65,355
    Posts: 9,218
    Member
    edited September 29, 2020
    Kensamaofmari wrote: »
    bubbascal wrote: »
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    Helsa wrote: »
    Vima wrote: »
    I think giving Alexina players "the shaft" as you called it is the right thing to do, given how they treat each other. It would be a good lesson to them to start acting a little more appropriately.
    Vima wrote: »
    Rewarding them for acting out will only make things worse. I stand by my opinion.

    My stars what did they do to deserve that; how did they "act out"?

    There's a picture of it in this thread.

    No more gin for you.

    Wait, so... the picture of them saying "Merge Alexina" is grounds for... punishment? Am I reading this correctly?

    It's just a message that will probably despawn shortly, it's made of event study desks. Unless it's photoshopped or something as someone in this thread said. In which case, it's a edited image that could have been made by a single person.

    No I believe it goes back to Alexina players scoffing at the initial idea of the server merge and when it finally happened... many of them were like
    giphy.gif

    Yep. I remember.

    smh.

    You know what?
    Bleep them. I am full of hate again.
    KensamaofmariHelsa
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,570
    Posts: 5,859
    Member
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    You know what?
    Bleep them. I am full of hate again.

    Well, of course you are; it's an election year.
    KensamaofmariWolfsinger
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 65,355
    Posts: 9,218
    Member
    Helsa wrote: »
    Crimsọn wrote: »
    You know what?
    Bleep them. I am full of hate again.

    Well, of course you are; it's an election year.

    MLCA. :trollface:
    Helsa
  • VimaVima
    Mabinogi Rep: 925
    Posts: 68
    Member
    is there a point to keeping this thread going? it was about the picture in the OP which the desks were re-arranged via illegal means.. or do people not understand that since pointing that out is technically FUD?
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 65,355
    Posts: 9,218
    Member
    edited October 1, 2020
    Vima wrote: »
    is there a point to keeping this thread going? it was about the picture in the OP which the desks were re-arranged via illegal means.. or do people not understand that since pointing that out is technically FUD?

    6hBW.gif
    Helsa
  • HelsaHelsa
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,570
    Posts: 5,859
    Member
    Vima wrote: »
    is there a point to keeping this thread going? it was about the picture in the OP which the desks were re-arranged via illegal means.. or do people not understand that since pointing that out is technically FUD?

    Do you mean we should start a new thread calling for the merge of Alexina and Nao?
  • BobbioBobbio
    Mabinogi Rep: 750
    Posts: 62
    Member
    wait so people think an image of chairs on ground are grounds for not allowing alexina to not be merged? holy, gave me a good chuckle right there lol, pretty sure people from alexina can be quite mad that they weren't included in a server merge when they were already getting low on people since that merge, currently it's hard enough to get even 16 people for a girg raid for part of the weeklies req and that's saying something.
    MermerieCrimsọn
  • MermerieMermerie
    Mabinogi Rep: 800
    Posts: 9
    Member
    Bobbio wrote: »
    wait so people think an image of chairs on ground are grounds for not allowing alexina to not be merged? holy, gave me a good chuckle right there lol, pretty sure people from alexina can be quite mad that they weren't included in a server merge when they were already getting low on people since that merge, currently it's hard enough to get even 16 people for a girg raid for part of the weeklies req and that's saying something.

    yeah I came back to mabi after quitting on Alexina server, and everytime I look for daily parties in Tail or Tara no one is there even in ch1.
    Festia and everything else is dead. Like everything is ghost town even Belvast...

    Legit theres no one anywhere except dunby ch1 mostly and it's the channel is not even busy most of the time.
    in other channels theres like maybe maximum 20 people standing around in dunby and thats it