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General Respect/Handling Grief

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  • ParadoxLostParadoxLost
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,575
    Posts: 108
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Liyeta wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Liyeta wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    It takes two or more people to argue. There is no such thing as a one person argument (unless you're mentally ill, of course). I cannot (nor should anyone else) answer your question properly (or even legitimately) without knowing both sides of the story (there is no such thing as a one sided story). I am sure this person chose the other person for no reason at all, and I am sure you could have asked for this information in the form of a ticket or in private to a parent or a friend close-by; as opposed to in front of a public audience serving no purpose outside of fanning the flames.

    I agree it takes two people to argue, but it only takes one person to be nasty and attack someone for really no good reason; I've had it happen to me before because some random guy asked me out and I said no, and he felt the need to call me names I can't repeat here before blocking me. I've seen it happen to my friends who have been yelled at for not selling items at lower prices/not selling to people at all. But just because you don't know both sides of the story doesn't mean you should stand by and let bullying happen. If you see someone being attacked, then yes, as a bystander, you have the right to make a report, even if they don't know both sides.
    That's not what I'm saying at all. ~ More often than not; both sides are equally at fault (if one person can know who the op is referring to; what makes you think the person they're referencing doesn't see it too? - hence fanning the flames; aka trolling). You're the only person in control of your emotions. No one decides when you won't react, when you will react, or when you'll overreact. No one but you.

    Nilrem wrote: »
    Well, since I am also on Tarlach, I have a fair idea of who you are talking about.

    I say just collect proof of the harassment and throw it towards reports.
    Just try to help you and your friend keep under control during such.

    As stated above, if both sides appear at fault, the report could do nothing or even backfire.

    As for how I handle things, well I honestly just don't care about such.
    Most people who do this get their kicks out of reactions or some other pointless feeling.
    So don't react and don't respond. Take away their fun.
    And if they continue to cause harassment outside of chat? Even easier to report them.
    I think its the not very often case.
    Since the person said is quite well known for doing so.
    It doesn't matter if that person is Jesus Christ. This thread is a violation of the forum rules (user harassment).

    It's a violation because you all acknowledge the person (target) being harassed as someone other than the op.


    No its not a violation of forum rule since none of us are doing direct attack to the person nor op.

    Hmm now that i think of it, maybe we are not looking at the same rules. Mind quoting the rule that we break ?
    It's okay if you wish to pretend this thread is not referring to a specific person and that a number of you know who that person is. Including that person. It makes no difference to me either way. It is what it is. Harassment. ~ and I don't think you need me to point out what part of the rules that's covered under. The point you seem to be missing is that this person can come here and report this thread, and they'd be 100% in the right, because this discussion is about them. ~ Put the shoe on the other foot.

    This post breaks no rules. If it did you could have reported it yourself. So go ahead and be my guest. The report button should be somewhere at the bottom of the post.
    Have you invited the topic of the discussion to your thread? When do we (the audience) get to read the other half of the story?

    ~ and no worries ... I did the report thing an hour ago. :)


    And its still up..weird..this thread is a discussion about general harassment and and how to ignore or handle it. If you think someone deserves to be invited then be my guest. But its not my job to do so.
    The bots I reported are also still up; that doesn't mean they'll remain there indefinitely. There's no way to legitimize this. You are clearly seeking a public audience for a one sided defense against someone who hasn't shared their side of the story. What if they're more reasonable than you are (or more right)? ~ Did that ever occur to anyone? Who is to say or ultimately decide who is more right and more wrong?

    What makes you morally superior in this equation?


    Who are you to decide what this conversation is about? What makes you think I'm even involved in the overall equation? Cuz my name might be associated with one or more parties? Cuz I posted about it? I posted about it cuz I'm tired of hearing about people getting harassed and wanted to seek advice from the community on how they would or have handled it. The only side to this is one person calling another names and bullying them. If you find that to be out of my rights and against the rules. To seek advice from my peers then so be it. Not my problem. But if you can justify someone being called names. Someone who was in no way involved in anything anyone had done. Then you're the one in the wrong. I can fight my own fights and anyone that knows me can tell you that. I dont need a community to back my up. I hold no grudges. But when random or innocent people are being harassed theres an issue. And it needs to be talked about. You think I'm talking about one person. But I'm not talking about one person, I'm talking about multiple. This is not an isolated incident. And this has gone on long enough. My overall objective with this post was and is to seek advice from my more mature peers about what to do. And to hopefully spread some awareness about intercommunity bullying.
    SherriKazuhanori
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,035
    Posts: 2,554
    Member
    Define the word harassment?
    Nilrem wrote: »
    Well, since I am also on Tarlach, I have a fair idea of who you are talking about.

  • ParadoxLostParadoxLost
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,575
    Posts: 108
    Member
    edited August 29, 2017
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Define the word harassment?
    Nilrem wrote: »
    Well, since I am also on Tarlach, I have a fair idea of who you are talking about.

    Tarlach is the least populated server in the game..its not hard to guess who is and who isn't guilty of bullying..

    Edit:
    ha·rass·ment
    həˈrasmənt,ˈherəsmənt

    noun

    aggressive pressure or intimidation.

    "the state also grants us the right to pursue this belief without any form of persecution or harassment"

    synonyms: persecution, intimidation, pressure, force, coercion; informalhassle

    "the report cites three separate accusations of harassment"
    Sherri
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,035
    Posts: 2,554
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Define the word harassment?
    Nilrem wrote: »
    Well, since I am also on Tarlach, I have a fair idea of who you are talking about.

    Tarlach is the least populated server in the game..its not hard to guess who is and who isn't guilty of bullying..
    ~ and this takes us back to what I've already said....

    When do we get to read the other half of the story?
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    It takes two or more people to argue. There is no such thing as a one person argument (unless you're mentally ill, of course). I cannot (nor should anyone else) answer your question properly (or even legitimately) without knowing both sides of the story (there is no such thing as a one sided story). I am sure this person chose the other person for no reason at all, and I am sure you could have asked for this information in the form of a ticket or in private to a parent or a friend close-by; as opposed to in front of a public audience serving no purpose outside of fanning the flames.


  • ParadoxLostParadoxLost
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,575
    Posts: 108
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Define the word harassment?
    Nilrem wrote: »
    Well, since I am also on Tarlach, I have a fair idea of who you are talking about.

    Tarlach is the least populated server in the game..its not hard to guess who is and who isn't guilty of bullying..
    ~ and this takes us back to what I've already said....

    When do we get to read the other half of the story?
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    It takes two or more people to argue. There is no such thing as a one person argument (unless you're mentally ill, of course). I cannot (nor should anyone else) answer your question properly (or even legitimately) without knowing both sides of the story (there is no such thing as a one sided story). I am sure this person chose the other person for no reason at all, and I am sure you could have asked for this information in the form of a ticket or in private to a parent or a friend close-by; as opposed to in front of a public audience serving no purpose outside of fanning the flames.


    You dont get to..there is no other side of the story..there is no story. There is no accusations. There is only an attempt to communicate and seek advice. Those who are guilty of bullying know it, those who arent arent. They wanna stand up and give their half then they can..i cant believe you're even trying to justify someone calling another names and harassing them..
    Sherri
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,035
    Posts: 2,554
    Member
    edited August 29, 2017
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    When do we get to read the other half of the story?
    You dont get to..there is no other side of the story..there is no story. There is no accusations. There is only an attempt to communicate and seek advice. Those who are guilty of bullying know it, those who arent arent. They wanna stand up and give their half then they can..i cant believe you're even trying to justify someone calling another names and harassing them..
    ......One particular incident involves one well known -removed- of a player......

    Troll Rating 11/10


  • ParadoxLostParadoxLost
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,575
    Posts: 108
    Member
    On a final note from me, thank you all very much for your help and advice. I really appreciate it. Feel like not enough thanks are given on this site so heres one to everyone that wasnt trolling.
    Sherri
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 64,205
    Posts: 8,867
    Member
    edited August 29, 2017
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Liyeta wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Liyeta wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    It takes two or more people to argue. There is no such thing as a one person argument (unless you're mentally ill, of course). I cannot (nor should anyone else) answer your question properly (or even legitimately) without knowing both sides of the story (there is no such thing as a one sided story). I am sure this person chose the other person for no reason at all, and I am sure you could have asked for this information in the form of a ticket or in private to a parent or a friend close-by; as opposed to in front of a public audience serving no purpose outside of fanning the flames.

    I agree it takes two people to argue, but it only takes one person to be nasty and attack someone for really no good reason; I've had it happen to me before because some random guy asked me out and I said no, and he felt the need to call me names I can't repeat here before blocking me. I've seen it happen to my friends who have been yelled at for not selling items at lower prices/not selling to people at all. But just because you don't know both sides of the story doesn't mean you should stand by and let bullying happen. If you see someone being attacked, then yes, as a bystander, you have the right to make a report, even if they don't know both sides.
    That's not what I'm saying at all. ~ More often than not; both sides are equally at fault (if one person can know who the op is referring to; what makes you think the person they're referencing doesn't see it too? - hence fanning the flames; aka trolling). You're the only person in control of your emotions. No one decides when you won't react, when you will react, or when you'll overreact. No one but you.

    Nilrem wrote: »
    Well, since I am also on Tarlach, I have a fair idea of who you are talking about.

    I say just collect proof of the harassment and throw it towards reports.
    Just try to help you and your friend keep under control during such.

    As stated above, if both sides appear at fault, the report could do nothing or even backfire.

    As for how I handle things, well I honestly just don't care about such.
    Most people who do this get their kicks out of reactions or some other pointless feeling.
    So don't react and don't respond. Take away their fun.
    And if they continue to cause harassment outside of chat? Even easier to report them.
    I think its the not very often case.
    Since the person said is quite well known for doing so.
    It doesn't matter if that person is Jesus Christ. This thread is a violation of the forum rules (user harassment).

    It's a violation because you all acknowledge the person (target) being harassed as someone other than the op.


    No its not a violation of forum rule since none of us are doing direct attack to the person nor op.

    Hmm now that i think of it, maybe we are not looking at the same rules. Mind quoting the rule that we break ?
    It's okay if you wish to pretend this thread is not referring to a specific person and that a number of you know who that person is. Including that person. It makes no difference to me either way. It is what it is. Harassment. ~ and I don't think you need me to point out what part of the rules that's covered under. The point you seem to be missing is that this person can come here and report this thread, and they'd be 100% in the right, because this discussion is about them. ~ Put the shoe on the other foot.

    Don't be that dude, dude. You're just lighting yourself on fire for nothing.
    ParadoxLostSherriKazuhanori
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,035
    Posts: 2,554
    Member
    Gaea wrote: »
    Eventually they will become perma banned. Just keep reporting. Hue.
    Reporting can have both positive and negative effects. Especially if the first of many is found to be frivolous.

  • ParadoxLostParadoxLost
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,575
    Posts: 108
    Member
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    When do we get to read the other half of the story?
    You dont get to..there is no other side of the story..there is no story. There is no accusations. There is only an attempt to communicate and seek advice. Those who are guilty of bullying know it, those who arent arent. They wanna stand up and give their half then they can..i cant believe you're even trying to justify someone calling another names and harassing them..
    ......One particular incident involves one well known -removed- of a player......

    Troll Rating 11/10


    ...yes because a name totally fits there grammatically and it wasnt an admin removing a swear word at all..
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,035
    Posts: 2,554
    Member
    edited August 29, 2017
    You won't turn this around lol ... -- the swear word is proof in itself (proof of harassment). It was confirmed later in, but you go right ahead and pretend it wasn't (that's fine with me). That user can still report you as well. :D
    Gaea wrote: »
    Don't be that dude, dude. You're just lighting yourself on fire for nothing.
    This is more like throwing yourself into a pool full of Piranha and then complaining when you get bitten. :D


  • IyasenuIyasenu
    Mabinogi Rep: 24,265
    Posts: 2,887
    Member
    .
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Liyeta wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Liyeta wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    It takes two or more people to argue. There is no such thing as a one person argument (unless you're mentally ill, of course). I cannot (nor should anyone else) answer your question properly (or even legitimately) without knowing both sides of the story (there is no such thing as a one sided story). I am sure this person chose the other person for no reason at all, and I am sure you could have asked for this information in the form of a ticket or in private to a parent or a friend close-by; as opposed to in front of a public audience serving no purpose outside of fanning the flames.

    I agree it takes two people to argue, but it only takes one person to be nasty and attack someone for really no good reason; I've had it happen to me before because some random guy asked me out and I said no, and he felt the need to call me names I can't repeat here before blocking me. I've seen it happen to my friends who have been yelled at for not selling items at lower prices/not selling to people at all. But just because you don't know both sides of the story doesn't mean you should stand by and let bullying happen. If you see someone being attacked, then yes, as a bystander, you have the right to make a report, even if they don't know both sides.
    That's not what I'm saying at all. ~ More often than not; both sides are equally at fault (if one person can know who the op is referring to; what makes you think the person they're referencing doesn't see it too? - hence fanning the flames; aka trolling). You're the only person in control of your emotions. No one decides when you won't react, when you will react, or when you'll overreact. No one but you.

    Nilrem wrote: »
    Well, since I am also on Tarlach, I have a fair idea of who you are talking about.

    I say just collect proof of the harassment and throw it towards reports.
    Just try to help you and your friend keep under control during such.

    As stated above, if both sides appear at fault, the report could do nothing or even backfire.

    As for how I handle things, well I honestly just don't care about such.
    Most people who do this get their kicks out of reactions or some other pointless feeling.
    So don't react and don't respond. Take away their fun.
    And if they continue to cause harassment outside of chat? Even easier to report them.
    I think its the not very often case.
    Since the person said is quite well known for doing so.
    It doesn't matter if that person is Jesus Christ. This thread is a violation of the forum rules (user harassment).

    It's a violation because you all acknowledge the person (target) being harassed as someone other than the op.


    No its not a violation of forum rule since none of us are doing direct attack to the person nor op.

    Hmm now that i think of it, maybe we are not looking at the same rules. Mind quoting the rule that we break ?
    It's okay if you wish to pretend this thread is not referring to a specific person and that a number of you know who that person is. Including that person. It makes no difference to me either way. It is what it is. Harassment. ~ and I don't think you need me to point out what part of the rules that's covered under. The point you seem to be missing is that this person can come here and report this thread, and they'd be 100% in the right, because this discussion is about them. ~ Put the shoe on the other foot.

    This post breaks no rules. If it did you could have reported it yourself. So go ahead and be my guest. The report button should be somewhere at the bottom of the post.
    Have you invited the topic of the discussion to your thread? When do we (the audience) get to read the other half of the story?

    ~ and no worries ... I did the report thing an hour ago. :)


    We don't, and we shouldn't.
    Then it'd be officially drama.
    And become a true kangaroo court.

    ~~~~

    ~gavel banging~

    All rise, Judge Public Opinion presiding over the case of General Chat v. Mystery Tarlachian.
    Order in the court!

    ~~~~

    But really, it's vague, with no names, so no one on the outside would think it's much more than a general discussion about whether or not you'd take a proactive role in helping keep Mabi harassment down, or be some kind of complicit observer, with a mention of the discussion being brought on by a recent incident that they witnessed.
    That is what it looks like to me, a Marian who doesn't know who the one in question is.

    It looks like the OP wanted some empathy.
    Or advice.
    At worst, it's just venting through vagueposting.
    It's not a call to arms to rise up against someone who, as you've mentioned a few times, could probably have a side of the story that is more than "I purposely set someone off for laughs".

    If it was purely to vent, just let them get it out of their system.
    Let them get the advice and opinions they asked for.
    If a name were to get named, that's when the mods would swoop in, edit it out, and lock the thread to spare the person from harassment or counter-harassment.

    Unless that happens, any lock on this thread is probably going to be caused by it going horrendously off-topic.
    And that can stop right now.
    SherriParadoxLostPolicroma
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,035
    Posts: 2,554
    Member
    edited August 29, 2017
    Iyasenu wrote: »
    -words-
    This thread, whether on topic or not, doesn't really belong in this forum and wasn't a big deal until it became apparent what's really going on. Don't sit there and pretend you would allow this to happen to yourself, or someone who might be in the right. I'm still waiting to read the other half of this drama llama literature. -- and please ... don't tell me you believe that line of crap ... "there is no other half of the story ... omg "

  • NilremNilrem
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,880
    Posts: 465
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    For the record, the reason I had a fair idea of who it was is because only 3-4 people in the entire population of tarlach are known for going out of their way to harass others.
    ParadoxLostSherri
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,035
    Posts: 2,554
    Member
    edited August 29, 2017
    Liyeta wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Iyasenu wrote: »
    -words-
    This thread, whether on topic or not, doesn't really belong in this forum and wasn't a big deal until it became apparent what's really going on. Don't sit there and pretend you would allow this to happen to yourself, or someone who might be in the right. I'm still waiting to read the other half of this drama llama literature.

    You are the one making a big deal out of this.

    There is 2 way you can get the other perspective of the story.
    1. The person themselves told the story here.
    2. You make a new char on tarlach and ask the person directly.

    Asking op for the other side of the story is unreasonable in itself since they are not an esper that can read the thought of the said person or seeing things from their eyes.

    This thread do belong here since its about mabinogi playerbase and how they act in game.
    No, no, no. ~ The person making a big deal out of this is the person who came to the forum (instead of dropping the argument in-game). They know how to deal with it (ignore people who troll them) and how to report people. -- they weren't born yesterday, right? ~// -- Neither was I.
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 18,360
    Posts: 2,746
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    Seriously, this is a topic to raise awareness about online harassing, not for name shaming anyone.

    On topic, if you see somebody getting bullied or you are getting bullied yourself, don't be afraid to report the one being mean.
    If possible, you could civilly defend the person/yourself.
    NilremParadoxLostIyasenuCarlizeAtaraxiz
  • TheDumbOneTheDumbOne
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,790
    Posts: 342
    Member
    edited August 29, 2017
    doesnt matter who started it, or who ended it.
    - if someone blocks you, and you continue to send them notes then you are harassing them.
    -unless their sending you notes back that isn't "stop noting me or ill have to report you" which doesn't sound like the case.

    To be honest they need to fix note sending so you cant message people you blocked or got blocked.
    people should be freely able to fight in mabi, but shouldn't freely be able to keep conversing after someone got black listed.
    ParadoxLostSherriChibiMegu
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,035
    Posts: 2,554
    Member
    edited August 29, 2017
    Liyeta wrote: »
    -insert psychobabble here-
    I do believe I said, "Neither was I."
    TheDumbOne wrote: »
    doesnt matter who started it, or who ended it.
    - if someone blocks you, and you continue to send them notes then you are harassing them.
    -unless their sending you notes back that isn't "stop noting me or ill have to report you" which doesn't sound like the case.

    To be honest they need to fix note sending so you cant message people you blocked or got blocked from can message you.
    The problem with this equation is the person being blocked gets no notification of this (unless the person blocking them says something). If they don't know you blocked them, it's not really fair to report them for "talking to the great almighty you". ~ There's two sides to this story.

  • TheDumbOneTheDumbOne
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,790
    Posts: 342
    Member
    edited August 29, 2017
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Liyeta wrote: »
    -insert psychobabble here-
    I do believe I said, "Neither was I."
    TheDumbOne wrote: »
    doesnt matter who started it, or who ended it.
    - if someone blocks you, and you continue to send them notes then you are harassing them.
    -unless their sending you notes back that isn't "stop noting me or ill have to report you" which doesn't sound like the case.

    To be honest they need to fix note sending so you cant message people you blocked or got blocked from can message you.
    The problem with this equation is the person being blocked gets no notification of this (unless the person blocking them says something). If they don't know you blocked them, it's not really fair to report them for "talking to the great almighty you". ~ There's two sides to every story.

    If you can see your getting messages from someone you blacklisted, and your saying "stop messaging me, ive black listed you" and they continue, then i dont care who started it.
    i dont care if the person came up to you wished death on your family, cussed you out, and made every lil awful notion of you possible. if that person who did allllll that BLACK LISTED YOU-STOPS COMMUNICATION WITH YOU- and clearly says "dont message me or ill report you" then THATS IT!

    once you black list someone, or when someone black lists you, and the conversation keeps going on SOME HOW, at the POINT it should be report-able. I think unless the person reporting is the person bothering the other person AFTER a black list, then its a different story.
    ParadoxLostSherriChibiMegu
  • HardmuscleHardmuscle
    Mabinogi Rep: 13,035
    Posts: 2,554
    Member
    edited August 29, 2017
    TheDumbOne wrote: »
    Hardmuscle wrote: »
    Liyeta wrote: »
    -insert psychobabble here-
    I do believe I said, "Neither was I."
    TheDumbOne wrote: »
    doesnt matter who started it, or who ended it.
    - if someone blocks you, and you continue to send them notes then you are harassing them.
    -unless their sending you notes back that isn't "stop noting me or ill have to report you" which doesn't sound like the case.

    To be honest they need to fix note sending so you cant message people you blocked or got blocked from can message you.
    The problem with this equation is the person being blocked gets no notification of this (unless the person blocking them says something). If they don't know you blocked them, it's not really fair to report them for "talking to the great almighty you". ~ There's two sides to every story.

    If you can see your getting messages from someone you blacklisted, and your saying "stop messaging me, ive black listed you" and they continue, then i dont care who started it.
    i dont care if the person came up to you wished death on your family, cussed you out, and made every lil awful notion of you possible. if that person who did allllll that BLACK LISTED YOU-STOPS COMMUNICATION WITH YOU- and clearly says "dont message me or ill report you" then THATS IT!
    Telling them (which you should do) is not the same as them not getting a notification when it happens (a notification from THE GAME - not the player). Go back and read what I said again. Your fanciful misuse of all caps isn't in the least bit necessary. No matter who likes your post.



This discussion has been closed.