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Talk: does archery need rebalanced?

XxSWxXXxSWxX
Mabinogi Rep: 1,215
Posts: 16
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in General Chat
I don't use archery myself, but I have noticed a distinct lack of players using archery. They use literally everything else, but I have never seen high-end players utilize archery. Is this because archery is unbalanced? Just curious.
  1. Does archery need rebalanced?66 votes
    1. yes
       48% (32 votes)
    2. no
       27% (18 votes)
    3. oops, I cant delete option 3 so it's staying.
       24% (16 votes)

Comments

  • FalcondaeFalcondae
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,555
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    I'm an archer main, but the problem I have as of late is the lag, and this applies to gunner and magic as well. Usually, I either can't fire or I am immobilized to the point where I can't move for 3 minutes, and a lot can happen in those three minutes. I usually end up going heavy armor instead of my usual light armor when soloing things to compensate for the lag problems as of late. But otherwise, if I don't lag, I'm happy as a little finch.

    Though, it would be nice if shots that missed were completely negated by the Sniper title. I mean, what kind of archer are you if you miss like 75% of the time due to displacement...? >.<
    DanievictriapawcalypsePandaninjaTwelieTairikuValkirye
  • TNinjaTNinja
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    Archery is one of the lowest tiers in the skill trees for us due to the lag. But a high tier in Korea because of how fast one can dish out damage from about any distance and no latency.
  • FarseerarentaFarseerarenta
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,085
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    edited July 3, 2017
    well...to be honest gunnery auto hits....

    and doesn't need to spend time aiming...
    and loads skills instantly or doesn't need to load at all.
    ammo is cheap, and easy to carry (1k bullets. each of which is worth a full magazine. so...like 36k to 64k shots)
    can use any armor



    compare that to archery.
    missing so much on 95%(i swear the % its showing is incorrect. cause when you miss 80% of your 95% aim shots. but hit 60% of your 50% shots...)
    aiming sometimes taking surprisingly long
    archery skill takes time to begin aiming, and sometimes delays where it loads....but wont start aiming.
    fully aimed and spam click to fire but it wont as enemy walks toward you and hits you cause you've been 99% aimed for 5 seconds but it wont fire.
    gotta carry tons of arrows that take up alot of space
    and can't use heavy armor cause dex is screwed

    it doesn't need a rebalance...it needs a reWORK.

    TwelieKaxleneValkirye
  • lceCreamlceCream
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,205
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    edited July 3, 2017
    It's only bad if you're not rich. I'm an poor elf archer main and find other skill sets to be more effective. Like using bash on bosses and shooting rush/kunai storm on mobs.
    I have 1k+dex and use an ele6 bdk

    At endgame, with r1 range reforged bohem set, r6 bfafel and magnum combo card, it's one of the best skills. At that point the only thing bad about it is final shot. Final shot needs to be buffed to be like final hit with more duration less cooldown and no durability loss
  • SiodhanSiodhan
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    I'm an elf archer main, but I don't think it needs to be revamped. But a few changes need to be made. The latency makes final shot hard to use, so it'd be best to make it like wotg in terms of functionality instead of making that icon load every item you are done using a skill. That would take away like.idk, 3-5 seconds of delay between each shot while using final shot.

    Also, bring combo card pieces back permanently to replace the currently dropped combo cards in all places. Some people still have custom made cards, while for others they're impossible to get. That's pretty unfair, especailly to those who came after the event. I didn't, though I was too weak to work for one at the time, let alone being able to choose which talent I'd actually want to stick with.

    Also, elf lag. Happens all the damn time still.
  • ZeoZeo
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,030
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    I don't think it need like... a huge revamp like what @Siodhan said... just few changes to improve the archery.

    1. Tweak Final Shot to make it better... maybe make it so you don't lose durability during the duration of Final Shot and rescale the Final Shot reforges to be on par with Final Shot?

    2. Make Elven Magic Missile be useable outside the Falcon transformation. Make actually tweak around with both bow and wand so they're actually not crap and elves would actually use them. Seriously though, giant rebalance patch made it so Giant Full Swing is useable outside of transformation... why not Elven Magic Missile too?

    3. Mirage Missile... I rarely see anyone using them and it's not that good even after it got revamped still... so I'm not sure how to tweak the skill so it'd actually be useful... any ideas?
  • SiodhanSiodhan
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,825
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    I actually use mirage missile all the time. It deals decent damage for how quickly it loads, deals DoT and most importantly, slows down like mad. You can run for days. Unlike dischord, you don' tneed to keep reapplying it every few seconds. A single enemy can't usually reach you if you use mirage missile and magnum together. Archery is very weak to multi aggro I guess, but if everyone had the possibility of getting magnum spam cards (which I guess makes the rest of archery less worthwhile in general, even without combo cards), then it'd at least be viable enough for single target ranged dps without being too p2w reliant (range reforges aside <_<) that it could be considered very effective.
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
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    Final shot is pretty situational by itself I suppose, but with the Eweca Boost, I can't complain, perhaps.
  • lidiyalidiya
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,325
    Posts: 335
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    edited July 3, 2017
    No it doesn't need re-balancing
    But what it does need is it's mechanics overhauled. The aim meter needs to be removed, and just make it 100% hit as the issue with archery is it was designed for the high end networking infrastructure, and size of South Korea so there is no issues with it. It's problem arises when the lag between server, and clients are 100X larger then it was designed to deal with. Now to sorta re-balance it they could add a charge time of a second to fire, but remove the aim%(just for a quick idea, but could prolly be figured out better).
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
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    I'd argue that archery is the best example of the gameplay system being too reliant on reforges. When the investment relies not on time played but currency spent, I can see where the dissatisfaction comes from.
  • MissDevichiMissDevichi
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    Liyeta wrote: »
    Also i heard archery is the current meta for phantasm and alban.

    Who did you hear this from?;
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 64,205
    Posts: 8,866
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    Liyeta wrote: »
    Also i heard archery is the current meta for phantasm and alban.

    Who did you hear this from?;

    From an elf.
    Xiokun[Deleted User]Shifty
  • KokoroKokoro
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,155
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    I am human archer main. Archery is my favourite talent by far and I actually don't hate the aiming mechanic. I will agree that it does need a few tweaks, mainly to do with it's over-reliance on reforges.
  • PolicromaPolicroma
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,730
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    edited July 3, 2017
    Elf main here.... I would say that archery could use a tweak, but otherwise is fine, especially with the introduction of Vision of Ladeca. (Pew pew pew!) Personally, I think it's more that elves need a melee boost, but we're starting to get that with some of the newer changes.

    However, I wouldn't say archery is for the "rich". Rather it is *NOT* for anyone who is worried about "keeping up with the joneses". If you're going to get squeamish every time humans bring out the final hit, archer is not for you. People attempt to make up for this with reforges. They are not required by any means, but I think people feel embarrassed not to have them.

    I have always said the strength in archery is not pure damage, but kiting and minimal multiaggro. You can pick off enemies one at a time without getting dogpiled if you are careful, allowing you to solo things you typically couldn't as long as you have a bit of patience. (Notice the archery Enn form is the "form of patience"?) An elf on a crystal deer can fire, hide, throw off aggro, and fire again, doing slow but safe damage repeatedly. (A technique used to solo Rabbie Phantasm.) Magnum is heaviest damage, Support shot fires very fast, normal attack (on elves) hits twice and helps hold back enemies that magnum cannot, mirage slows and DoTs, etc.

    Now, if you're an elf in a fast moving group and archery ends up being a 3rd wheel, try something like magic. If you want to melee, get a big 'ol celtic hammer or axe. They'll do decent smashes and bashes even on an elf. (Source: Violence is fun....)
    [Deleted User]
  • lceCreamlceCream
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    Policroma wrote: »
    Elf main here.... I would say that archery could use a tweak, but otherwise is fine, especially with the introduction of Vision of Ladeca. (Pew pew pew!) Personally, I think it's more that elves need a melee boost, but we're starting to get that with some of the newer changes.

    However, I wouldn't say archery is for the "rich". Rather it is *NOT* for anyone who is worried about "keeping up with the joneses". If you're going to get squeamish every time humans bring out the final hit, archer is not for you. People attempt to make up for this with reforges. They are not required by any means, but I think people feel embarrassed not to have them.

    I have always said the strength in archery is not pure damage, but kiting and minimal multiaggro. You can pick off enemies one at a time without getting dogpiled if you are careful, allowing you to solo things you typically couldn't as long as you have a bit of patience. (Notice the archery Enn form is the "form of patience"?) An elf on a crystal deer can fire, hide, throw off aggro, and fire again, doing slow but safe damage repeatedly. (A technique used to solo Rabbie Phantasm.) Magnum is heaviest damage, Support shot fires very fast, normal attack (on elves) hits twice and helps hold back enemies that magnum cannot, mirage slows and DoTs, etc.

    Now, if you're an elf in a fast moving group and archery ends up being a 3rd wheel, try something like magic. If you want to melee, get a big 'ol celtic hammer or axe. They'll do decent smashes and bashes even on an elf. (Source: Violence is fun....)
    Vision of Laceca is nice but it doesn't really solve anything. You have to grind to lvl 100 to even use it and even then there's a huge cooldown and duration depends on ttl. So basically useless for everyone exept those op elves. Also the buff is removed when you cc so you can't use it for raids.

    Kiting is useless since most of the time you're stuck in a room. Also alot of monsters just run too fast to kite. Even if you mirage if you miss well you're dead.

    The crystal deer thing is just a gimmick. I don't even think the pet was designed to be used in combat like that. Archery requiring a pet to be good is just wrong. Also the last time it was on sale was in 2014.


  • PolicromaPolicroma
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    edited July 3, 2017
    As I said, not for the "keeping up with the joneses" types. I've played my elf since elves came out and I've rolled my eyes at every Elf QQ thread there is. It's all jealousy: a bunch of whining that one's toy isn't as shiny as the next guy's. I'm used to the limitations and I adapt. I enjoy figuring out new challenges... for the sake of doing something new and fun.

    Thing is, archery gets whined about because it's not "good enough". Translation: It's not final hit. Yeah, we get it. I melee in dragon raids anyway. Why? Because that's not exactly time for being a sneaky elf. All the contribution points seem to come from use of smash anyway.

    Back to the OP, the reason you don't see others using archery is it's slow and better suited for soloing stuff where multiaggro would kill you. (Think Alban Heroic, AAHM, etc...) Someone who uses archery to solo content will probably pull out a "faster" skillset for group use. (Unless Ladeca is up... then pew pew pew!!!!)
    Greta
  • SiodhanSiodhan
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    edited July 4, 2017
    Might as well balance all the other junk though. Sometimes, keeping up with op people and fairness has a middle ground. Archery definitely deals decent damage in relation to ingame mobs' hp endgame, but the reliance on reforges and how it dwarfs in comparison to some other way more dura-efficient, mass-murdering skills is definitely NO-K. That's a different discussion altogether for me and I'll stand by that. Looking at talents individually and the game as a whole are two different stories and the feeling of accomplishment with "anything you want to be" is not impacted by how archery is able to beat any of the game's content regardless of comparisons.

    EDIT: Also, lots of portias in here..darn. Maybe I'm really growing to favor having custom avatars again after all, this is just needlessly confusing.
  • MaiaMaia
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    I'm a human archer and while I've played at end-game in the past, I don't presently. End-game archery is pretty good but seems like it's a lot-lot more difficult to reach compared to other talents and barely (if at all) better than anything else like close combat. Against tanky mobs, archery is so-so since FH/Bash can dominate pretty well. Against multi-aggro, it's so-so due to the long cooldown of crash shot and the Need for reforges in order to make it a viable alternative. Against weak monsters it's great (HM mobs for example)! but that's not really what you want an endgame talent to speicalize against.

    Since quitting and selling all my stuff, my new set isn't as great. I do use archery and close combat primarily and I have to say, I hardly ever use archery. Close combat is much easier to get into and way efficient. I only use archery because it was my staple back in the day. Honestly, gunner or even puppetry would be a better 2nd. I even used merlin knuckles for secondary for a while and it was more fun. Archery is stressful, inefficient, and extremely costly. It needs to be reworked.

    Also egoes need to be revamped k.

    Just my 2 cents
    Junpaku
  • EllisyaEllisya
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    edited July 4, 2017
    More like Human archery needs rebalance. Elves are okay.
    (Looking at elf's mag spam with final shot + ladeca)
    Faithrend
  • GretaGreta
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    edited July 5, 2017
    You all keep whining about archery, but here i'm waiting for Nexon to finally fix and make fighter more useful not just in PvP but also in PvE too.
    SugarAngelXiokunZeoTairiku
This discussion has been closed.