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Can we not immediately scream for nerfs?

Comments

  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    Kouyioue wrote: »
    Well considering the darn thing has:
    • obligate infinite transformation time(unless you get into combat)
    • Can gather things from props without it counting as combat
    • Appearance options
    • Jiggle(on idle AND in combat)
    • Can talk to NPCs and enter buildings

    I'd say it's well worth the insane EverQuest style "You'd better WORK for this reward" title

    The New Divinity's +5% experience is turning out to be a godsend, so there's that.

    On saturday I went from crusader 35-44, weekend 2x, pot 2x, robes 10%, titles 5% I got over 20k exp. This is insane it's skipping actual months worth of exp.
  • RaykaRayka
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,375
    Posts: 132
    Member
    Kouyioue wrote: »
    Well considering the darn thing has:
    • obligate infinite transformation time(unless you get into combat)
    • Can gather things from props without it counting as combat
    • Appearance options
    • Jiggle(on idle AND in combat)
    • Can talk to NPCs and enter buildings

    I'd say it's well worth the insane EverQuest style "You'd better WORK for this reward" title

    The New Divinity's +5% experience is turning out to be a godsend, so there's that.

    this is the only 1 thing i did really like,i didn't had problem with any boss all u needed was tons of pots and nao stones,but the doppelganger was very STUPID design despite having 50-100% injury rate doing 15% of his hp with final hit yet he heal 11-12% back,even if i use paladin with 100% injury rate i just think that he can still heal back half of hp i damage, there something wrong about injury rate on this thing

    Tagar -> anchor rush or use pet mobility + timing to lure it near pillar, stay near pillar when she get underground after 1 sec move away from your spot with your mount

    Creag->shrock,truly to be told i don't know what i was doing i was half afk i just walked(i'm human) over to orb and hit it and play dead and let Alban Knight Zerg him to death

    Doppelgange->curse this boss ,dev made it surely to disgust anyone that doesn't have enough dps,my tips(only human) is try to get high injury rate and attack damage and spam final hit,always kill clones as they give 15%prot each to the doppelganger when it reach 50% it start using shadow spirit instead of summoning clones at start i didn't know how to counter it so i started wasting potions like a idiot,anchor rush can free from shadow spirit

    Tarvish->i used hydra + normal hit with daggers cause spamming bash make me hard to escape from his aoe attack,i guess bash spamming is good only for who live in america, after reaching 80% it become a game of survability the longer you survive the more damage you do,always use nova when is out of cooldown and always try to get full charge from normal skill of nascent divinity, blink is only used to lose aggro when he's trying to seal your crusade skill or to escape from his aoe attack
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
    Mabinogi Rep: 61,350
    Posts: 7,907
    Member
    I used balloons, for FREE.
  • LunarxpherLunarxpher
    Mabinogi Rep: 615
    Posts: 8
    Member
    Rayka wrote: »
    Kouyioue wrote: »
    Well considering the darn thing has:
    • obligate infinite transformation time(unless you get into combat)
    • Can gather things from props without it counting as combat
    • Appearance options
    • Jiggle(on idle AND in combat)
    • Can talk to NPCs and enter buildings

    I'd say it's well worth the insane EverQuest style "You'd better WORK for this reward" title

    The New Divinity's +5% experience is turning out to be a godsend, so there's that.

    this is the only 1 thing i did really like,i didn't had problem with any boss all u needed was tons of pots and nao stones,but the doppelganger was very STUPID design despite having 50-100% injury rate doing 15% of his hp with final hit yet he heal 11-12% back,even if i use paladin with 100% injury rate i just think that he can still heal back half of hp i damage, there something wrong about injury rate on this thing

    Tagar -> anchor rush or use pet mobility + timing to lure it near pillar, stay near pillar when she get underground after 1 sec move away from your spot with your mount

    Creag->shrock,truly to be told i don't know what i was doing i was half afk i just walked(i'm human) over to orb and hit it and play dead and let Alban Knight Zerg him to death

    Doppelgange->curse this boss ,dev made it surely to disgust anyone that doesn't have enough dps,my tips(only human) is try to get high injury rate and attack damage and spam final hit,always kill clones as they give 15%prot each to the doppelganger when it reach 50% it start using shadow spirit instead of summoning clones at start i didn't know how to counter it so i started wasting potions like a idiot,anchor rush can free from shadow spirit

    Tarvish->i used hydra + normal hit with daggers cause spamming bash make me hard to escape from his aoe attack,i guess bash spamming is good only for who live in america, after reaching 80% it become a game of survability the longer you survive the more damage you do,always use nova when is out of cooldown and always try to get full charge from normal skill of nascent divinity, blink is only used to lose aggro when he's trying to seal your crusade skill or to escape from his aoe attack

    Finished it on main (human) relatively easily. The doppelganger took a bit to figure out what to do after 1-2 runs. For elves, best option is mag spam. also have pets that revive themselves so you can have them take the heat. Fair warning, on my mage elf, using r3 mag spam with a clean HLB and about 500 dex, took me roughly 50 mins. Just gauge your damage and time.
  • LiyetaLiyeta
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,060
    Posts: 764
    Member
    How to clear g21 part 2
    1st boss: wait on red area near the pillar, go to the other side of the pillar when the boss go underground, whem the boss pop up hit the pillar. Do this twice, then get the boss outside the ruin so npc can't hit her, deagro, hydra.
    2nd boss: shylock step or orb hitting pet, run, hit the orb
    3rd boss: divine link, clear the clone, start wotg/bash/fh.
    4th boss: stock up lots of mp, hp pots, baloon, mercenary scroll, and naos. When the dialogue start and the boss is moving closer, summon mercenary scroll, do it 5 ish time, start hitting the boss till hp 30%. Small tips the boss is strong toward magic and melee but weak towards range, i find gun is the most effective to use.

    Things i tried and failed:
    1. Using i frame to stop the 1 hit death
    2. Using crisis escape to stop the spike
    3. Using blade or spike to stop the boss spike when boss hp is 75% or lower

    Other thing that works:
    1. Mercenary scroll
    2. Trapping the boss on ledge on east side (between pillar and wall), go down the stair then from over the ledge, occasional lr and meteor.
    3. Stoping the insta death and spike using critical hit (sometime work sometime not)
    4. After getting debuffed, run away using demi till agro reset, wait till debuff is off. For some reason if the the boss stop agro ing fast enough he won't use the 1 hit kill skill.

    Im done with g21. Time to afk till g22 come out.
  • ImaizumiImaizumi
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,945
    Posts: 676
    Member
    Liyeta wrote: »
    How to clear g21 part 2
    1st boss: wait on red area near the pillar, go to the other side of the pillar when the boss go underground, whem the boss pop up hit the pillar. Do this twice, then get the boss outside the ruin so npc can't hit her, deagro, hydra.
    2nd boss: shylock step or orb hitting pet, run, hit the orb
    3rd boss: divine link, clear the clone, start wotg/bash/fh.
    4th boss: stock up lots of mp, hp pots, baloon, mercenary scroll, and naos. When the dialogue start and the boss is moving closer, summon mercenary scroll, do it 5 ish time, start hitting the boss till hp 30%. Small tips the boss is strong toward magic and melee but weak towards range, i find gun is the most effective to use.

    Things i tried and failed:
    1. Using i frame to stop the 1 hit death
    2. Using crisis escape to stop the spike
    3. Using blade or spike to stop the boss spike when boss hp is 75% or lower

    Other thing that works:
    1. Mercenary scroll
    2. Trapping the boss on ledge on east side (between pillar and wall), go down the stair then from over the ledge, occasional lr and meteor.
    3. Stoping the insta death and spike using critical hit (sometime work sometime not)
    4. After getting debuffed, run away using demi till agro reset, wait till debuff is off. For some reason if the the boss stop agro ing fast enough he won't use the 1 hit kill skill.

    Im done with g21. Time to afk till g22 come out.
    Maybe WM could work in stopping Tally chans spike if crit works in stopping spike? Since it seems like he stopped because of his AI getting reset and WM is infamous for causing AI resets.
  • RaykaRayka
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,375
    Posts: 132
    Member
    edited July 17, 2018
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Kouyioue wrote: »
    Well considering the darn thing has:
    • obligate infinite transformation time(unless you get into combat)
    • Can gather things from props without it counting as combat
    • Appearance options
    • Jiggle(on idle AND in combat)
    • Can talk to NPCs and enter buildings

    I'd say it's well worth the insane EverQuest style "You'd better WORK for this reward" title

    The New Divinity's +5% experience is turning out to be a godsend, so there's that.

    On saturday I went from crusader 35-44, weekend 2x, pot 2x, robes 10%, titles 5% I got over 20k exp. This is insane it's skipping actual months worth of exp.

    what's the pot that give 2x to crusaded exp?
  • HellkaizerHellkaizer
    Mabinogi Rep: 11,305
    Posts: 1,066
    Member
    Rayka wrote: »
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Kouyioue wrote: »
    Well considering the darn thing has:
    • obligate infinite transformation time(unless you get into combat)
    • Can gather things from props without it counting as combat
    • Appearance options
    • Jiggle(on idle AND in combat)
    • Can talk to NPCs and enter buildings

    I'd say it's well worth the insane EverQuest style "You'd better WORK for this reward" title

    The New Divinity's +5% experience is turning out to be a godsend, so there's that.

    On saturday I went from crusader 35-44, weekend 2x, pot 2x, robes 10%, titles 5% I got over 20k exp. This is insane it's skipping actual months worth of exp.

    what's the pot that give 2x to crusaded exp?

    e2b5e894104747c22dd53024960714a8.png
  • SherriSherri
    Mabinogi Rep: 17,565
    Posts: 2,624
    Member
    No, because it does need nerfed.
    Donk3y wrote: »
    The thing is the bosses in this generation are BY FAR the WORST designed bosses in mabinogi. Every other generation boss, even the EXTREMELY HARD ONES for their times gave you a fighting chance, but this one? Nope.

    People compared the doppleganger boss to glas... ok let me put it into perspective: A good analogy of how badly designed this boss is, is to consider glas. Now give him 1000x more HP...

    Sure there was one dude that said he killed it in 30 seconds... Great, wonder if I could do it with your 30k lvls...
    You shouldn't need literally end game gears and stats just to have a fighting chance in a STORYLINE boss.

    Unless there's some kind of convoluted trick to it, this boss is pure and simple BAD DESIGN.

    This explains exactly why.
    3rdy
  • millusimillusi
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,385
    Posts: 21
    Member
    Some background about me before my opinion on the matter: human, total level 10k, been playing for a bit over a year, no fancy reforges, r1 most chain skills and sitting at about 900 dex and 500 luck, Whispering Twilit Moon Cutthroat, RKA armor set, r1 divine link.

    My procession through g21, part 2:
    Tagar - probably the most nonsensical and nerf-needing of all the bosses, imo. I walked into the fight like ok, let's see what's going to happen, and I got walloped hard about 3 times iirc. Then consulted people on Discord, found out that not all of the pillars worked, just the red circle one. After I managed pillars (which took some trial and error to determine when Tagar goes under and back up), managed to kill it with final hit on bargain beams while downing potions like mad (thank Aton Cimeni for the potion fishing event). On hindsight, attack avoidance is key here - either stay mounted on a pet or be a giant and shield+Defense. Not sure how lesser-leveled players can get through this without plenty of nao/guardian stones.

    Golem (i forget its name) - not sure what to say here. Drink a movement speed pot, use shylock step, march song, anchor rush spam, idk you choose.

    Fight with the disciples - yeah, this took a few deaths to figure out, but turns out the key was to stay away from the initial fighting. Then the crystal part was pretty simple, though I ran out of time the first attempt and learned to use anchor rush to get from crystal to crystal. No nerf needed, imo.

    Altam RP - it would have been nice if I was told that all the sprites had to die at the beginning of the mission, instead of after I get to my body = _=. The wind thing was really subtle; didn't understand its significance until 3rd run. Still, not a mission that needs nerfing, maybe just clarification. (After all, it's not like you lose anything but time and patience.)

    Doppleganger - not sure what everyone's problem was with this. Maintained divine link and the dopple kept going after my pet instead, keeping me free to chain impale/normal attack boss dopple, and chain sweep to 1hko the clones. HP restore was annoying, but spamming attacks overcame it eventually. Crit luck on my part? idk, wouldn't nerf.

    Talvish - took 6 tries to learn the mechanics and ended up cheesing it as follows: spammed normal chain at .02% damage per hit with the occasional raging spike to i-frame through scythe attacks (and mana shield up in case). Learned to counter blade attack pretty early (with one death to learn shield timing). Never learned how to counter anti-crusader debuff (seriously, that white text hint was vague af), but did learn that running away with anchor rush will allow one to lose Talvish after a certain distance, allowing debuff to wear off safely. After divinity, was just a matter of time until I finished him off (with maybe a pot or two to make up for hp losses). My successful last run required no Nao/guardian stones, and only 2 complete recovery pots. Not really the most satisfying fight, but I did feel good about finally clearing it.

    So, with the exception of Tagar, I managed the entirety of g21 pt 2 as a mid-tier with chain slash and a pretty typical cutthroat. It wasn't the easiest fight but as it was the finale of a storyline, I feel like it shouldn't have been. The mistake (imo) was having g19 available to you from the very beginning, which I think people misinterpret as a sign of the Alban Knights quests being beginner-level. Heck, you could technically finish g19-21 before even doing any other gen, even if nascent divinity was supposed to be the end result of all the other generations.

    Yes, there was a lot of frustration circling around this gen. We all were trying to deal with fights we were going in blind to, and we wasted a lot of resources trying to find out what the heck works given what we have. But I love what people have done - I've heard at least 5 different ways to deal with the final boss, spanning a variety of levels and equipment and skill sets. Of course it isn't fun to keep dying, but that's a natural part of exploring unknowns - you try, you die, you learn, you attempt again with new ideas.

    And if you've tried everything and still nada, then you can stop, get stronger, come back later. It's not like the quests are going anywhere, they'll wait while you work towards grandmaster chain or a nicer tribolt or whatever. There aren't even any time-limited incentives for finishing g21 this time around . -.
    OpalthiraVeylaine
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,580
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    All these people acting like this gen is some kind of impossible conquest yet there was like 100 players with it on the first day.
    Pretty much everyone i run past is using the title.

    People honestly like didn't try or think of strategies they just came here and immediately complained.
    Tagar was the second easiest boss for me. I just used hide ran over to a pillar with circle then turned off hide.
    Hiding behind a pillar will make you immune to Tagar's skills be cause there is a "WALL" infront of you so the skill cannot target you.
    (Basically the newb strategy for killing bears)
    After the pillars are down spam all your skills and its dead with in a like a minute.

    The golem isnt a boss.
    (if you're an elf)

    Doppleganger is easy you just aoe the summons and burst the boss it dies within minutes
    (hence they guy saying he killed it in 30 seconds. Where as it took me like whole 3 minutes to kill mine)

    Talvish like other people have said,
    Just run away from him every time he goes to attack you = zero damage taken the entire fight.

    If people bothered to watch a boss and learn how its mechanics work they wouldn't be complaining.
    Maybe thats just my experience from playing so many games though. Watch and then exploit.
    (Its almost as if the combat is realistic? :o)

    Idk maybe its just elf being the master race for soloing content :v
    Veylaine
  • OpalthiraOpalthira
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,580
    Posts: 943
    Member
    edited July 18, 2018
    Yes, there was a lot of frustration circling around this gen. We all were trying to deal with fights we were going in blind to, and we wasted a lot of resources trying to find out what the heck works given what we have. But I love what people have done - I've heard at least 5 different ways to deal with the final boss, spanning a variety of levels and equipment and skill sets. Of course it isn't fun to keep dying, but that's a natural part of exploring unknowns - you try, you die, you learn, you attempt again with new ideas.

    This 1000% is what games are supposed to be.
    But everyone just wants it done an no challenge whatsoever its just sad.
  • GTCvActiumGTCvActium
    Mabinogi Rep: 7,125
    Posts: 661
    Member
    millusi wrote: »
    Some background about me before my opinion on the matter: human, total level 10k, been playing for a bit over a year, no fancy reforges, r1 most chain skills and sitting at about 900 dex and 500 luck, Whispering Twilit Moon Cutthroat, RKA armor set, r1 divine link.

    My procession through g21, part 2:
    Tagar - probably the most nonsensical and nerf-needing of all the bosses, imo. I walked into the fight like ok, let's see what's going to happen, and I got walloped hard about 3 times iirc. Then consulted people on Discord, found out that not all of the pillars worked, just the red circle one. After I managed pillars (which took some trial and error to determine when Tagar goes under and back up), managed to kill it with final hit on bargain beams while downing potions like mad (thank Aton Cimeni for the potion fishing event). On hindsight, attack avoidance is key here - either stay mounted on a pet or be a giant and shield+Defense. Not sure how lesser-leveled players can get through this without plenty of nao/guardian stones.

    Golem (i forget its name) - not sure what to say here. Drink a movement speed pot, use shylock step, march song, anchor rush spam, idk you choose.

    Fight with the disciples - yeah, this took a few deaths to figure out, but turns out the key was to stay away from the initial fighting. Then the crystal part was pretty simple, though I ran out of time the first attempt and learned to use anchor rush to get from crystal to crystal. No nerf needed, imo.

    Altam RP - it would have been nice if I was told that all the sprites had to die at the beginning of the mission, instead of after I get to my body = _=. The wind thing was really subtle; didn't understand its significance until 3rd run. Still, not a mission that needs nerfing, maybe just clarification. (After all, it's not like you lose anything but time and patience.)

    Doppleganger - not sure what everyone's problem was with this. Maintained divine link and the dopple kept going after my pet instead, keeping me free to chain impale/normal attack boss dopple, and chain sweep to 1hko the clones. HP restore was annoying, but spamming attacks overcame it eventually. Crit luck on my part? idk, wouldn't nerf.

    Talvish - took 6 tries to learn the mechanics and ended up cheesing it as follows: spammed normal chain at .02% damage per hit with the occasional raging spike to i-frame through scythe attacks (and mana shield up in case). Learned to counter blade attack pretty early (with one death to learn shield timing). Never learned how to counter anti-crusader debuff (seriously, that white text hint was vague af), but did learn that running away with anchor rush will allow one to lose Talvish after a certain distance, allowing debuff to wear off safely. After divinity, was just a matter of time until I finished him off (with maybe a pot or two to make up for hp losses). My successful last run required no Nao/guardian stones, and only 2 complete recovery pots. Not really the most satisfying fight, but I did feel good about finally clearing it.

    So, with the exception of Tagar, I managed the entirety of g21 pt 2 as a mid-tier with chain slash and a pretty typical cutthroat. It wasn't the easiest fight but as it was the finale of a storyline, I feel like it shouldn't have been. The mistake (imo) was having g19 available to you from the very beginning, which I think people misinterpret as a sign of the Alban Knights quests being beginner-level. Heck, you could technically finish g19-21 before even doing any other gen, even if nascent divinity was supposed to be the end result of all the other generations.

    Yes, there was a lot of frustration circling around this gen. We all were trying to deal with fights we were going in blind to, and we wasted a lot of resources trying to find out what the heck works given what we have. But I love what people have done - I've heard at least 5 different ways to deal with the final boss, spanning a variety of levels and equipment and skill sets. Of course it isn't fun to keep dying, but that's a natural part of exploring unknowns - you try, you die, you learn, you attempt again with new ideas.

    And if you've tried everything and still nada, then you can stop, get stronger, come back later. It's not like the quests are going anywhere, they'll wait while you work towards grandmaster chain or a nicer tribolt or whatever. There aren't even any time-limited incentives for finishing g21 this time around . -.

    Exactly this, people ignore the fact that most of the generation bosses are sometimes complete hulking monsters. Glas vs G1 players was crazy enough with its super regenerating health. Cromm from G3 was pretty much a gigantic damage sponge that could dish out damage that ripped through your HP and defenses like its not even there. Nuadha you were given demigod and had to time your wings of rage with Morrighan's to bring him down. In short, nothing in this gen has anything we've never seen before and we've dealt with it all the same. We have giant damage sponge bosses, mechanically instant kill moves, little to no instruction (I'm looking at you G10 final). No, the a nerf is not needed. If you're not strong enough, come back later when you're stronger. This is basically saying that 'Oh Phantasm is too hard for me even though I can enter it at Lvl1, please nerf it".
    GretaOpalthiraVeylaineImaizumiHellkaizerlingyao
  • AlshianAlshian
    Mabinogi Rep: 6,755
    Posts: 1,230
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    Anakym wrote: »
    im a total lv 4454 and i beated the doppel whit shuriken smash XD (o yes remember to kill first the dopels or you will be having a hard time XD!!) the g21 is ok, people just got acostumed to power trought most enemies and forgot that the first generations where pretty mutch about abusing the mechanics more than fire power so i say leave it like it is, becouse if you did all the previous gens then you already have all the tools you need for this adventure!! XD

    Yep your not limited to one thing folks get creative! Plus the way i look at it, this is what near endgame is. G22 is prob going to be much, MUCH harder than what we had been through this Generation. I only managed to go through G21 Part II was because of anchor rush, using demi god's morrighan's shield, and many other skills, oh also because of Elf speed moving out of sticky situations. Plus i had Nao stones from events that threw them up like candy also buying guardian stones.

    Died a lot because i forget this is Mabinogi that your not limited to do just one thing. Did i forget to say this is G21? not G1? c:

    Come back later folks when your prepared and well informed about how to beat G21, i can brag that i beat it the day it came out BLIND! 619hp, 89 def, 17 prot, and below 7k+ does not need a nerf.
    Greta
  • GretaGreta
    Mabinogi Rep: 46,225
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    edited July 18, 2018
    Agree with you guys. Players these days... Instead of actually trying to do this and figure it out themselves, some people choose to come in forums, call dev's idiots and feel very proud and righteous for saying that. Sad.
  • CrimsọnCrimsọn
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    Why is this thread 11 pages long?
    fennixfox
  • VeylaineVeylaine
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,850
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    Gaea wrote: »
    Why is this thread 11 pages long?

    because g21 made people mad? and mad people are a good ingredient for lengthy threads.
  • VeylaineVeylaine
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,850
    Posts: 348
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    edited July 18, 2018
    Also doing g21 for the 2nd time on my giant, I cheesed tagar with large shield defense works for all its physical swipes and dives. ( also like a lot of magic the attacks didn't activate defense so you could keep the skill loaded and take 1s for as long as you want to)

    1st time doing it on my elf had to spam mp pots, my giant didn't have to spam any pots lol.
  • ImaizumiImaizumi
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    I used a kite shield rka and droseras and activated defense. Took only about 100 dmg per Tagar jump down from 600-900. It's still ok damage but it's much more manageable in comparison.
  • ForeRuniaForeRunia
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,365
    Posts: 39
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    Alshian wrote: »
    G22 is prob going to be much, MUCH harder than what we had been through this Generation.

    Most people complaining won't even be able to do G22 on release. 5000k cumulative level requirement. If this alone doesn't show that they want to create content that gives you a reason to progress, idk what will. Perhaps the fault of the Alban Knights was being able to access it on a fresh character, as it implies you should be able to do it somewhat easily.