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Can we not immediately scream for nerfs?

Comments

  • ZephyrmaruZephyrmaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,430
    Posts: 139
    Member
    I can agree with that, I get that saying 'git gud' triggers some people. I do wanna point out though that if they just want a How To guide, all they have to do is wait a few days for the talented people to throw a comprehensive one together. My comments about 'playing better' are aimed at the people who are a few hours into the release and are shouting "BAD GAME DESIGN" in all caps when they died. That...that is just sad, and almost knee jerk's a 'git gud' even if its deserved or just trolling.
    fennixfox
  • FOXAssassinFOXAssassin
    Mabinogi Rep: 840
    Posts: 39
    Member
    Xiokun wrote: »
    I'm seeing a lot of frustration and words that can really start some arguments. I'd recommend avoiding speech that can insult people for their opinion, be it insulting those who think it's to easy, or insulting those who think it's too hard. At the end of the day we're all players trying to play the same game and have a nice time, so let's try to be civil before another thread collapses into flames. :S

    I feel that Mabinogi combat in general has drifted into being more focused on damage, gear, and pets than the kind of strategies I was used to back when I first joined. It killed combat for me in general, making me stay just for my friends and clothes. I wasn't willing to spend more time than I felt was necessary grinding gold for near 20m+ gears, pets, reforges, or maxing out every skill to Master or Dan 3 in order to do dungeons in a timely manner and/or rushed manner, so I gave up after a while. I didn't find it too rewarding. Overall, it looks to me like combat is almost all the same, but with much larger HP, and perhaps some instant kill skills in the monsters that only make the battles more frustrating. I haven't played the new generation yet, though after seeing how Sidhe- (I forget how to spell it, the one in Abb Neagh) played out, and how Rabbie Phanstam is like, I would only assume that the harder generations moving forward will only take minor gear and strategy adjustments, but the HP pool getting bigger and bigger, geared toward the strongest of the strong, while leaving the weaker content, like those mobs in Iria walking around the snow, deserts, and woods, forgotten and in the dust. It's too late to fix any of this now. We're too far up the power ladder now, and we can only go up. :/

    As a long time player myself I can agree with everything said,and the worst part is some of the NPC's -acknowledge- things have changed and have wistful nostalgia about days gone by,in all aspects of the game. And even some of the QOL changes. That dungeon revamp? The multitude of people I play with along with myself have no interest in running them anymore,when before we did them fairly frequently. Being Multi-aggroed into oblivion by HP sponges isn't fun.

    Most skillsets are being left behind. If you're not abusing Bash and Final hit. You're wrong,you can't compete,you're next to dead weight in raids. If you don't focus on crits. You're dead weight (g21 even pokes at this with the crit segment for part 1) what happened to diversity?
    You shouldn't need to abuse pet spam,or Devine link to do storyline content,in a game that originally promoted teamplay and co-operation. Now it's "How much damage can -I- do"

    I've been harbouring some intentse feelings about 21 even since part 1. G21 has next to no redeeming value to me

    The story? While riding on the coat-tail of 19-20 which parodies the christian takeover of ireland,which was fairly decent,has lost all it's pro's for this chapter.

    The milletian (you) has always been a walking Deus ex machina, but at least -sometimes- they played it off well,but suddenly having a timephone to talk with the Elder before sealing himself? Or how in lore -we are steps away from gods- and people either coddle us,or give us menial tasks to do. Or better yet act like asking for help is -such- a problem. We've saved the world from cataclysm how many times and the NPC's still doubt our motives? Or act as if we don't want to suddenly protect this world any longer?

    The bosses? All of them are horribly designed,and what makes it worse,some of them -could've been- good. Mokku for instance. It is just a constant barrage of attacks. Yes,you could lower the damage to tolerable levels while party healers tend to you,but with the fact that you just take damage...constantly. You either have to abuse manashield and MP potions,or have defence up constantly to stay alive,which means you're not helping deal damage,OR you just focus on DPS instead,and die constantly just to revive and do it again. And that's the running trend for all the story bosses so far. You die,over and over untill you deal enough damage,or you abuse broken mechanics,like Brionac,then overpowering 0% stats

    A good comparison to -good- bossfights would be how they handled Sephirot,as of yet, my most favorite and enjoyable bossfight. Every.Single.Thing.It.Does. Can be avoided or midigated in some way IF you know how,and are skilled enough to do so,and without locking you to only one playstyle,akin to earlier generation fights. You want to use fighter? Go right ahead. Mage? Archer? Lance? Ninja? Everything is viable in that fight. The only downside is the enemy spawns which are less annoyance and more hard hitting glass cannon mobs that you -have- to lure the tree away from.
    Fastforward. All I see anymore is people saying "You're not good enough? Chainblade,Soulstones and Divine link,look how good I am at this"

    The NPC's? I don't mind most of the knights except for the new character. The way they actually put some human emotions into them is kind of endearing,Avelin and Altam come to mind,but Llywelyn...I end up skiming through most of his lines because they all amount to "I know something,but I'm not saying hehe" While acting as the most pretentious,holier-than-thou...The interactions with Kaelic are about the same. The fate of the world is hanging in the balance (yet again) And it seems like everyone is just playing around,like it's a game to them
    Then the Aces come back,which for some reason,have very different personalities compared to Saga,like they amplified their worst traits,same for the Chainblade story.

    I will give props to G21 for the level design,Avalon is pretty impressive,and the sound. The music is just as incredible. It seems like a lot of genuine love and care went into them,then the combat was needed and it was just like "Eh...the top tier margin needs HP sponges,and attacks to kill them,so lets slap something only the elite or desperate can do"

    TL/DR; Veteran player's lament and critism
    ImaizumiLongSly
  • TrythisTrythis
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,870
    Posts: 153
    Member
    edited July 13, 2018
    @dowie sader locked??? Do you mean crusader?

    Also you could be expierencing some really bad displacement, I know people who live in over seas servers have it the roughest since timing is key for this gen, but you can use crisis escape and shadow cloak like said @Veylaine said to wait out the Crusader Silence.

    Also if you're not having displacement anchor rushes I-frame is another good trick to use.
  • AquasolAquasol
    Mabinogi Rep: 5,005
    Posts: 416
    Member, Volunteer Forum Moderator
    Zephyrmaru wrote: »
    ...How is 'git gud' inflammatory enough for a mod comment? Actually, lemme rephrase that. What are you expecting people to say here, "Oh you tried your best after 20 minutes, I'm sure it was just lag or maybe it even is bad game design!"[...]

    How about, because several posts have had to be removed, and warnings issued out there? I think that’s fairly simple. Putting down other players, whether they’ve been successful in something or not, is wholly unnecessary, especially when it’s reaching a boiling point.
    FOXAssassinJazmynLongSly
  • AnakymAnakym
    Mabinogi Rep: 575
    Posts: 14
    Member
    umm it´s weird people keep saying it´s hard but so far looks standar for me on on lv 4514 and the only place im stuck it´s at freeing the knight i don´t know what im forgeting. but the previos fights where not hard i only used 2 guardian stones a few pots and morrighan shield, then aply martial arts, and the golem umm it was more easyer by the way im a giant so whit the 2% mov speed from the rider tittle i reached the orb whitout getting hit and it seem that dopel fight will need the use of some stigmata knucles well let´ss see what i encounter, any challenge can be cleared if you know the right tool!.
  • dowiedowie
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,690
    Posts: 180
    Member
    edited July 13, 2018
    Alright here's some of my thoughts going into these bosses/missions.
    First my stats It's nearly 15k ttl (level/explorer)
    I went into this using a pair of crk (r5/r6 nothing on reforges other than wutever I was given with the hammer to unlock them). I've only bought a couple pets and trading partner with NX. I pretty much fund myself playing the game (merch/commerce)

    Anyways first boss
    Tagar the much bigger grim reaper.

    Damage Output
    500-600 damage per hit
    I didn't feel like soul link would be very helpful because the hits were so high my pet would die easily.

    Attacks
    A very wide swing which is what will be happening most of the time. I think if you can run behind it you can dodge it but the problem is the boss doesn't teleport right on top of you. If you have fleet feet or are an elf you can just outrun it.

    Vertical swing which does about same damage.

    A slow which I don't think does anything else.

    A teleport in good ol grim reaper fashion.

    Strategy
    What you're supposed to do is just dodge stuff for a while until you get told to break a pillar when it is close. You'll see a small red circle on a pillar indicating which one to go to and hit when it is in it. If you fail then you need to go to another one. If you succeed then it gets stunned and you get told to do it again 2 or 3 times I forget. After that the defenses will be shredded and you can just pound away and tank the hits if you want or dodge them accordingly. Apparently you can cheese this with hydra but I won't go into that because I didn't do it that way.

    Problems with the Fight
    Getting Tagar within the red circle is a challenge. It is fairly annoying as it doesnt teleport on top of you and the circle is very small. You have to kind of start on one side of the pillar and move to the next as it is teleporting to you in order to get it in there then you hit the pillar before it teleports again or hits you. Every fail is a lot of damage so hope the AI cooperates. Other than that it dies relatively quickly once you go through all the pillar stuff ( the pillar stuff will very likely take the largest portion of time).

    Second mission
    The golem that I forget the name of!
    Really it's very simple. Just move move move until you get to the orb near the portal and smack it. I think then you hit the golem or something and it ends? Nothing much to say here. If you stay in the circles too long ( the duration is very short) you'll get teleported back to where you started.

    Third Mission
    prophets and the thing boss whatever
    I believe its just survive if I remember right . The boss can dash all over the place and be annoying but it's just run around and live until time passes.

    Fourth Mission /3rd boss
    Doppleganger yaaaaaaa
    Starting off you'll be face to face with your doppleganger. It's pretty much identical to the shadow mission one where it just loves using alchemy. Shortly after clones spawn to annoy you. Their health is very low but depending on your equips they can actually hurt ( they hit me for around 120 a hit.)

    Attacks
    The main doppleganger will use wind blast / water cannon I think / and flame burst. None of them do any serious damage. Not sure at what percent but it can also do shadow spirit from demigod transform. Between all the hit stun and knock backs from wind blast / flame burst into shadow spirit , it can be extremely annoying to get hits in.
    The clones just use general attacks and aren't all too special from my observation.

    Strategy
    I used soul link here because the damage wasn't really all that high. I ran off to the side of the area and the main doppel followed with 1 or 2 clones. The clones died super fast which was surprising but they did do a good bit of damage. Once I was situated I just used FH combined with bashes to wittle it down. I just ignored the warning of more clones and such as they felt content to just stand in the middle. The main doppel was incredibly annoying because it would rotate wind blast into flame burst and shadow spirits when it was low.

    Complaints
    Only thing I can really say is that it has so much hp it's pretty insane. FH brought it down to half but doing the rest before it came back up was pretty slow considering it's attacks had so much hit stun.

    Fifth mission
    Well it's more of keep Altam alive
    You move so slow but you need to crawl on over to the right or left side and grab the books . There should be 3. Don't worry if altam gets hit once from the judgement blade. Then you crawl on back till you are near Altam. You need to use the books when you see the sword appear from judgement blade. The white words that appear on the screen are too early. Just time every book use and it will be over.

    Sixth mission
    You get to be Altam
    I'm not sure if the mission was clear in this but you need to take out all the sprites. I ran to my character trapped in ice while ignoring the sprites and it told me that when i started hitting the ice. Thus i had to backtrack. Bash pretty much cleans everything out with charge closing gaps

    Seventh mission
    Talvish weird form
    Alright so right off it's confusing what to do but you just need to do like 20% or so hp and the next part starts.

    Attacks
    Area attacks similar to Tagar really
    Wide swing and vertical swings for 5-600 . They are dodgeable

    An attack that doesnt damage you but disables your crusader skill. I couldn't dodge this no matter what I tried but apparently you can outrange it ( though I remember being really far away and it still happening)

    the four judgement blades
    four blades crash down one after each other and then a blast occurs that kills you instantly

    Lightning rod / Ice spear (only casts in part 2)

    He can teleport near you

    Strategy
    Whittle his hp down as you dodge his attacks. When he does his four judgement blade attack, wait for the 2nd blade to fall before using shield of trust. The red blast is what kills you and doing it too early won't catch it. If you fail you die it's that simple. Once he gets beaten down a bit ( it's a lot of hp) the second part will start. Do whatever you can to situate yourself with the 4 new skills you gained which are activate/deactivate divinity , divine blast which is your main skill , blink which lets you teleport , and nova obliteration which is a nuke. Talvish will now ice spear and randomly fire off lightning rods but I never got hit by the lightning rod and the spear did trivial damage. You need to unload divine blasts and try to cast them when they are maxed out on your little minigame bar to increase stacks ( a bar under you). The more stacks you have, the more damage you deal with nova obliteration. You still have to shield of trust his judgement blade attack so don't forget that. It's just rinse and repeat until he's dead. ezgame

    Problems with this fight
    This fight is probably the worst offender for me. The hints were so vague. I thought you were just supposed to find a way to defend against the attack which would weaken him in some way. I died 2 -3 times before it finally said use shield of trust and i finally managed to get the timing down on the judgement blade blast. After that I just decided to hit him until part 2 started. It was really confusing to me because the HP was extremely high and my damage barely did anything really. Also the text just kept repeating itself making me feel like I was doing something wrong.
    There was another issue and that was the crusader canceling skill. I couldn't find a way to dodge it and the boss really seemed intent on casting judgement blade after it a lot which meant lolnaostone time.

    It's a lotta feedback/words but it's pretty much what I went through doing this stuff. I didn't really find it challenging because I had so many nao stones but I did find some mechanics pretty frustrating.
    Trythis wrote: »
    @dowie sader locked??? Do you mean crusader?

    Also you could be expierencing some really bad displacement, I know people who live in over seas servers have it the roughest since timing is key for this gen, but you can use crisis escape and shadow cloak like said @Veylaine said to wait out the Crusader Silence.

    Also if you're not having displacement anchor rushes I-frame is another good trick to use.
    Yeah I meant crusader ( say sader a lot in other games with crusader) .It's possible since it's how this game is sometimes. I didn't really think about shadow cloak or crisis escape which would work. I do know I did try to run away to outrange the silence and it failed me in which he proceeded to blow me up with judgement blades. It's even more annoying that you get spammed with the hints even if you succeed which can make you think there is more to the fight than just defending against the 1 shot. I was just checking his attacks and trying to find a way to counter them until I finally just said screw it and started doing damage which turned out I was supposed to.
    fennixfoxLadame
  • AnakymAnakym
    Mabinogi Rep: 575
    Posts: 14
    Member
    And i still Can´t find how to free the knights. It´s like the silvan dragon mission all over again XD like how i was supossed to know i need to use the old regular def skill i failed that one many times becouse of that! XD
  • TrythisTrythis
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,870
    Posts: 153
    Member
    edited July 13, 2018
    @dowie might of helped to use ranged combat like firebolt or ninja. If you said you just used crks probably why you had the most trouble with talvish from what I heard elves had it smoothest with talvish because vision+ mag, then use skills like hide shadow cloak and crisis escape to shake off his aggro.

    Not sure on this but some have said he uses the silence more often against melee, but that's just rumor.

    Being a giant I just used chains ninja and throwing attack along with shadow cloak and crisis escape to escape or out last his silence to preform damage mitigation strategies.
  • dowiedowie
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,690
    Posts: 180
    Member
    edited July 13, 2018
    Trythis wrote: »
    @dowie might of helped to use ranged combat like firebolt or ninja. If you said you just used crks probably why you had the most trouble with talvish from what I heard elves had it smoothest with talvish because vision+ mag, then use skills like hide shadow cloak and crisis escape to shake off his aggro.

    Not sure on this but some have said he uses the silence more often against melee, but that's just rumor.

    Being a giant I just used chains ninja and throwing attack along with shadow cloak and crisis to escape or out last his silence to preform damage migation stratedies.

    Something to advise others I guess. Once I actually decided there was nothing to the hints from the text other than not died to the OHKO his hp dropped fairly quick.
    Trythisfennixfox
  • NinzerkerNinzerker
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,640
    Posts: 70
    Member
    >Lack of preparation
    3 balloons
    33 soul stones
    6 guardian stones
    2 adv feathers

    ONE FIGHT

    >Just take a day or two to better plan/train more
    Translation: You didn't hydra spam? What s it rE?

    >its only been out 4 hours!
    Updates end at 12pm here, been throwing myself at it for more than 8 before I saw ANY progress

    >Just wait for the "talented" to make a comprehensive guide
    Pretty strong implication that your saying everyone is just plain stupid and doesn't have the cognitive function to understand the complexities of the game, except for the wiki contributor that will just plagiarise what advice's, tips, hints, and tricks the launch crew painstakingly uncovers after the first few weeks have passed and everything's already laid out for them

    Its also nice that some can solo Rabbie Phantasm blindfolded, and even so much as look at a dragon before it melts, but the vast majority cannot inject that absurd amount of time if not money into a game.
    The notion of "why aren't you using (insert skill here)?" goes against the entirety of player choice in favor of a strict "if you didn't raise these skills exactly right you wasted years of your life" and is an affront to why many people even approached this game in the first place

    Its not that people feel a sense of entitlement, its a sense of fairness, going back to the earlier posts example take the dungeon revamp
    What did they do? Added a 0 to all enemy damage rolls and add two 0 to all enemies health, its an exaggeration, yes, but BARELY so
    The results? New players cannot complete Alby Normal, the same dungeon they just completed in the tutorial without hitting a damage sponge,. Late game players ignore the dungeons due to not being fiscally viable, And dungeons are even deader than before

    Its within my experience that people actually LIKE and actively will seek out a challenge, but if its unfair, frustrating, and stiflingly exclusive to the player it smothers any enjoyment and just leaves even the victory hollow and bittered in retrospect
    FOXAssassinAnakymImaizumiLeineiJazmynTwelieRadiant DawnLongSly
  • FOXAssassinFOXAssassin
    Mabinogi Rep: 840
    Posts: 39
    Member
    Ninzerker wrote: »
    >Lack of preparation
    3 balloons
    33 soul stones
    6 guardian stones
    2 adv feathers

    ONE FIGHT

    >Just take a day or two to better plan/train more
    Translation: You didn't hydra spam? What s it rE?

    >its only been out 4 hours!
    Updates end at 12pm here, been throwing myself at it for more than 8 before I saw ANY progress

    >Just wait for the "talented" to make a comprehensive guide
    Pretty strong implication that your saying everyone is just plain stupid and doesn't have the cognitive function to understand the complexities of the game, except for the wiki contributor that will just plagiarise what advice's, tips, hints, and tricks the launch crew painstakingly uncovers after the first few weeks have passed and everything's already laid out for them

    Its also nice that some can solo Rabbie Phantasm blindfolded, and even so much as look at a dragon before it melts, but the vast majority cannot inject that absurd amount of time if not money into a game.
    The notion of "why aren't you using (insert skill here)?" goes against the entirety of player choice in favor of a strict "if you didn't raise these skills exactly right you wasted years of your life" and is an affront to why many people even approached this game in the first place

    Its not that people feel a sense of entitlement, its a sense of fairness, going back to the earlier posts example take the dungeon revamp
    What did they do? Added a 0 to all enemy damage rolls and add two 0 to all enemies health, its an exaggeration, yes, but BARELY so
    The results? New players cannot complete Alby Normal, the same dungeon they just completed in the tutorial without hitting a damage sponge,. Late game players ignore the dungeons due to not being fiscally viable, And dungeons are even deader than before

    Its within my experience that people actually LIKE and actively will seek out a challenge, but if its unfair, frustrating, and stiflingly exclusive to the player it smothers any enjoyment and just leaves even the victory hollow and bittered in retrospect

    Praise you
  • AnakymAnakym
    Mabinogi Rep: 575
    Posts: 14
    Member
    Ninzerker wrote: »
    >Lack of preparation
    3 balloons
    33 soul stones
    6 guardian stones
    2 adv feathers

    ONE FIGHT

    >Just take a day or two to better plan/train more
    Translation: You didn't hydra spam? What s it rE?

    >its only been out 4 hours!
    Updates end at 12pm here, been throwing myself at it for more than 8 before I saw ANY progress

    >Just wait for the "talented" to make a comprehensive guide
    Pretty strong implication that your saying everyone is just plain stupid and doesn't have the cognitive function to understand the complexities of the game, except for the wiki contributor that will just plagiarise what advice's, tips, hints, and tricks the launch crew painstakingly uncovers after the first few weeks have passed and everything's already laid out for them

    Its also nice that some can solo Rabbie Phantasm blindfolded, and even so much as look at a dragon before it melts, but the vast majority cannot inject that absurd amount of time if not money into a game.
    The notion of "why aren't you using (insert skill here)?" goes against the entirety of player choice in favor of a strict "if you didn't raise these skills exactly right you wasted years of your life" and is an affront to why many people even approached this game in the first place

    Its not that people feel a sense of entitlement, its a sense of fairness, going back to the earlier posts example take the dungeon revamp
    What did they do? Added a 0 to all enemy damage rolls and add two 0 to all enemies health, its an exaggeration, yes, but BARELY so
    The results? New players cannot complete Alby Normal, the same dungeon they just completed in the tutorial without hitting a damage sponge,. Late game players ignore the dungeons due to not being fiscally viable, And dungeons are even deader than before

    Its within my experience that people actually LIKE and actively will seek out a challenge, but if its unfair, frustrating, and stiflingly exclusive to the player it smothers any enjoyment and just leaves even the victory hollow and bittered in retrospect

    Praise you

    I agree!!!
    FOXAssassin
  • Donk3yDonk3y
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,050
    Posts: 122
    Member
    Zephyrmaru wrote: »
    People who die: This boss killed me and is hard to get over, therefore it is terribly designed because I wanted to beat the whole content in a day and return to afking without wasting any pots/nao stones.

    That is next level pathetic, gotta say xD

    Like, I have no problems whatsoever with casual players. In fact, I think it's an extremely healthy and mature way to pace yourself in MMOs when you have a job/work/other commitments. But a casual shouldn't be arguing 4 hours into release that the FINAL BOSS is hard. And if the people complaining are not casuals....git gud?

    Yeah...git gud. Or borrow my copy of Kirby's Epic Yarn if you can't handle it : ^ )

    Refer to my comment to understand why your argument is mostly stupid :)
  • VeylaineVeylaine
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,850
    Posts: 348
    Member
    edited July 13, 2018
    Donk3y wrote: »
    Refer to my comment to understand why your argument is mostly stupid :)
    could of left out the stupid remark you're gonna get this thread locked if this continues into a insulting contest. Its much quicker to lock or unlist/delete a thread than constantly delete comments that are bound to continue or start flame wars.
    FOXAssassin
  • Donk3yDonk3y
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,050
    Posts: 122
    Member
    edited July 13, 2018
    Hellkaizer wrote: »
    Ninzerker wrote: »
    >get gud
    >almost 10 mastered talents Doesn't have manashield though?
    >below 850 hit points max
    >Tagar hits 900 every attack
    >elf improved move speed, +1%totem +3titles +15-17% march song I did this with base elf move speed and got hit like maybe 10% of the time.
    >still hit by 40% of attacks
    >don't have Wave racer and fleet feet but near max move speed not helping with evasion much
    >constant attack doesn't leave time for retaliation beyond few whip hits
    >2 pillars, bone drag debuff, dance of death debuff, shoryuken debuff, on top of fantastic chorus debuff
    >4.6% damage crit impale Brionac is a thing either, and someone posted a video how to cheese it anyway
    >2%
    Why isn't the defeat screen auto opening the cash shop when its so heavily tailored to end game reforges and soul stone spam and speed potions
    If it was a matter of skill or ability THEN it would warrant a "Get Gud"

    It does warrant a get gud because the first boss you can dodge all of its damage with anchor rush.

    Donk3y wrote: »
    The thing is the bosses in this generation are BY FAR the WORST designed bosses in mabinogi. Every other generation boss, even the EXTREMELY HARD ONES for their times gave you a fighting chance, but this one? Nope.

    People compared the doppleganger boss to glas... ok let me put it into perspective: A good analogy of how badly designed this boss is, is to consider glas. Now give him 1000x more HP...

    Sure there was one dude that said he killed it in 30 seconds... Great, wonder if I could do it with your 30k lvls...
    You shouldn't need literally end game gears and stats just to have a fighting chance in a STORYLINE boss.

    Unless there's some kind of convoluted trick to it, this boss is pure and simple BAD DESIGN.

    G1 Glas at the time was harder than the face to face fight, and you could fight it in a party. G1 Glas's most popular strat was to get it stuck on campfires so you could avoid his charge. So your analogy is baseless.


    I'm not trying to out anyone, or target anyone in saying this but there's a LOT of things you can do to make fights easier that varies from debuffing to just avoiding damage in general. Seeing this outrage is almost sad in a way. Somethings that are really awful though, the camera while in Nascent Divinity is pretty bad. It'd also be nice if we had more instructions for the different fights and such as they involve a bit of trial and error.

    Wow... Did you actually imply g1 glas was stronger than this for it's time? LOOOL!

    Seriously dude, did you even play at that time? Glas was potato for it's time. Sure it was challenging because at that point there were like only 2 dungeons that were truly challenging in the game... A party with mid game gears would have no problem beating it, even without glitching him. Hell when we first beat it we didn't even had reborn characters, we beat it with a party full of non reborn people...

    Maybe you should try again lol
    Veylaine wrote: »
    Donk3y wrote: »
    Refer to my comment to understand why your argument is mostly stupid :)
    could of left out the stupid remark you're gonna get this thread locked if this continues into a insulting contest. Its much quicker to lock or unlist/delete a thread than constantly delete comments that are bound to continue or start flame wars.

    I said his comment was stupid, not that he was stupid. It wasn't an insult :)
    Smart people say stupid things sometimes as well :D
    fennixfox
  • BlissfulkillBlissfulkill
    Mabinogi Rep: 23,940
    Posts: 2,760
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    edited July 13, 2018
    >Face a boss who can instagib you unless you use a specific skill

    >Boss also has a skill that can nullify your special skill that you need certain skills to even dodge

    I am unsure why people think bosses need to be difficult, as I am of the complete opposite opinion; I know there are players less skilled than me who simply want to do the generations, and unlike raids and dungeons, I always looked at Generation Mainlines as being content intended for everyone.

    I always prefered Generation 1 to 3 because if you were awful, you could be carried. I rather people not be carried, but I rather have a generation cater to all skill levels if not statistical differences. Generation 19's boss was the worst in the long time when it debuted, you essentially needed a form of Adv Heavy Stander to launch a judgement blade, or to brute force it, which made it a hassle back when several talents weren't on the table, nor were most skills dodgeable. (I utilize a bow and attempted to run out of range.)

    TL;DR I don't see the need for Generations to be difficult at all, especially when they themselves unlock skills and other content behind them. I rather reward persistence and effort here over skill, and especially luck.

    A Phantasm Breaker title or having the highest tier goods is one thing, but I rather not have a great deal of content locked behind a skill and especially stat gate, unless it is "that" type of game. Nothing in Mabinogi has given me the impression it is.

    A possible solution may be a casual mode enabled for generation, because something of generations has led me to believe they're something most people should be able to do.
    FOXAssassinJazmyn
  • TrythisTrythis
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,870
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    edited July 13, 2018
    @Blissfullkill I think the devs are moving past universal gens call it a hunch. Given g22. unreleased content info below
    need to be 5k to start it.
    Though they should add lvl barrier or casual mode for chapter 6 as you said since without either it gives off the impression it's a universal chapter that's a lot harder than the requirements are for it.
  • TrythisTrythis
    Mabinogi Rep: 1,870
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    edited July 13, 2018
    @Donk3y even if you called their comment stupid and not them there's no denying that it still has the chance to cause more toxic discourse.
    FOXAssassinZephyrmaru
  • BronzebreakBronzebreak
    Mabinogi Rep: 3,605
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    edited July 13, 2018
    What a meme of a thread.

    I'm glad to know that I've been here to witness the most explosive, toxic thread to date.
    ZephyrmaruNeroy
  • ZephyrmaruZephyrmaru
    Mabinogi Rep: 2,430
    Posts: 139
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    Ninzerker wrote: »
    >Lack of preparation
    3 balloons
    33 soul stones
    6 guardian stones
    2 adv feathers

    ONE FIGHT

    (That's...not asking much for a finale showdown. You can get like 20 stones a day if you really wanna try. 2 day's prep for a boss? Oldie G3 Final took more prep)

    >Just take a day or two to better plan/train more
    Translation: You didn't hydra spam? What s it rE?

    (No one said that. buddy. Planning and getting used to the fight =/= cheese. Though did you try barrier spikes?)

    >its only been out 4 hours!
    Updates end at 12pm here, been throwing myself at it for more than 8 before I saw ANY progress

    (4 hours, 8 hours...same thing. Still clearing content at race car speeds.)

    >Just wait for the "talented" to make a comprehensive guide
    Pretty strong implication that your saying everyone is just plain stupid and doesn't have the cognitive function to understand the complexities of the game, except for the wiki contributor that will just plagiarise what advice's, tips, hints, and tricks the launch crew painstakingly uncovers after the first few weeks have passed and everything's already laid out for them

    (That's putting words in my mouth. Player guides will be up long before wiki, and wiki's important. Don't bash them.)

    Its also nice that some can solo Rabbie Phantasm blindfolded, and even so much as look at a dragon before it melts, but the vast majority cannot inject that absurd amount of time if not money into a game.
    The notion of "why aren't you using (insert skill here)?" goes against the entirety of player choice in favor of a strict "if you didn't raise these skills exactly right you wasted years of your life" and is an affront to why many people even approached this game in the first place

    (Again, you're putting words in people's mouths. Also, assuming people who clear it are nolifers/p2win, classy. It's only a nerd when they're better than me, eh?)

    Its not that people feel a sense of entitlement, its a sense of fairness, going back to the earlier posts example take the dungeon revamp
    What did they do? Added a 0 to all enemy damage rolls and add two 0 to all enemies health, its an exaggeration, yes, but BARELY so
    The results? New players cannot complete Alby Normal, the same dungeon they just completed in the tutorial without hitting a damage sponge,. Late game players ignore the dungeons due to not being fiscally viable, And dungeons are even deader than before

    (I've seen new players beat the dungeons post-revamp. The key is not going in alone anymore, and forcing teamplay with other beginners.)

    Its within my experience that people actually LIKE and actively will seek out a challenge, but if its unfair, frustrating, and stiflingly exclusive to the player it smothers any enjoyment and just leaves even the victory hollow and bittered in retrospect

    (Personal opinions aren't objective facts. What you're trying to say is you think hard content is fine until it overpowers people. Then it's just dumb to a lot of people who don't wanna go the distance when they're already close to home plate. Which is 100% fair and a valid opinion. In fact, that opinion I can agree on somewhat. Still not a fact though, and the more veteran battlenogis are going to enjoy that 11th hour dash to the finish line that leaves most in the dust for awile.)

    I cannot really say a certain phrase apparently, so I will just say this. There are people who went in with less prep then you, less ttlv then you, less gear then you, and still won. Are they mad lads, or is there something to it? Who knows. : )
    ShouK