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Get this lootbox out of my game, Senator Hawley?

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  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Well, time for companies to make adjustments to their products and prepare for new marketing ways, or see the death of cash shops and maybe potential death of games.
    Darkpixie99
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    edited June 26, 2019
    Well, time for companies to make adjustments to their products and prepare for new marketing ways, or see the death of cash shops and maybe potential death of games.

    Honestly, I think this growing fear of governmental prosecution of monopolized industry is why no one wanted to bid on NXC after doing their research. It's sad to say, but I think Kim's got a lot of improvement to do, or lay it out for his company before he can completely retire.
    The loot box model just isn't as liquid as it used to be, and you quite literally can't rely on one method of business for all of eternity.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
    Mabinogi Rep: 34,415
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    Well, time for companies to make adjustments to their products and prepare for new marketing ways, or see the death of cash shops and maybe potential death of games.

    Honestly, I think this growing fear of governmental prosecution of monopolized industry is why no one wanted to bid on NXC after doing their research. It's sad to say, but I think Kim's got a lot of improvement to do, or lay it out for his company before he can completely retire.
    The loot box model just isn't as liquid as it used to be, and you quite literally can't rely on one method of business for all of eternity.

    This might be one of many turnoffs for appetite to bid for Nexon, but Nexon isn't the issue in this. It's lobbyists and their $ getting to politicians.
    Darkpixie99
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    edited July 15, 2019
    I think we may have forgotten to share this video of a Youtuber discussing EA culling the proverbial pooch.

    Disclaimer: This video may contain crude language unapproved by Nexon


    As I said before and repost below, this is the logical aspect that the lawmakers will be looking at ways to disprove:
    The gambling mechanics were first brought to attention via EA's Star Wars Battlefront.
    Long story short, everything was behind a paywall, and Disney got as mad as the players.

    The sad thing is that gachapons and loot boxes have been going on for nearly a decade, yet even gambling experts can't actually read.
    Nay, they brashly refuse to even think about losing profitable businesses over a single definition.
    According to Wikipedia:
    "Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome, with the primary intent of winning money or material goods."

    What's most tragic is that even if you are informed of the rates, you still don't know what you're going to get.
    Hence it is still an unknown variable.
    Also, Virtual Goods such as a Homestead Seed isn't a material good, it's strictly virtual.
    While it's virtual, players can still place a monetary material value based off of the real world RNG it takes to get the item.
    The gold we use to buy the item is earned either through game play, or eternal AFK shop keeping.
    The item remains within the game, it can never be taken out of the game, and vanishes into the virtual void when Mabinogi is sunset.
    All monetary in game value is lost alongside the game, the moment it shuts down. This means that there is no longer any value.
    When the game is sunset, player money has been placed on randomized items in a virtual world that simply does not exist.
    There is no value, yet value has been advertised and expressed by both consumer and company.
    So while there is no visible value, there is indeed value in each randomized item.
    (This is expressed in other games as either a colors system, or Common/Uncommon/Rare/Super Rare/Ultra Rare rates.)

    So yes, by literal definition, Mabinogi's gachapons are gambling.
    The gambling mechanic is called the false hope syndrome.
    In other words, it's hope in getting that one rare item before the in game price skyrockets.
    The player bets money, and receives nothing in return but the loss of money.
    You could technically argue that gachapons are a transaction scam.


    Meanwhile, an article 3 days ago:
    Digital Minister Margot James defends loot boxes
    She agreed that games companies have a responsibility to "learn from the data they're collecting" and that there are "various measures they could reasonably put in place," such as the time limits previously mentioned (although she stressed she was using this as a possibility, not advocating it). And, again, she emphasised the need for more studies.
    "I would caution against the assumption that it's only the industry that should be investing in the research," James said. "As a government, we need to be satisfied that there's an independence in the research that's garnered or commissioned and I think there's a role here for public funding.
    "But definitely the manufacturers should be collecting data, and in time if they are coming into scope of the online harms regulator then they will be expected to have a duty of care to their userbase. And I think most reasonable people think they do have a duty of care even with or without regulation, and that's what we'll be looking for them to demonstrate over the next 18 months before the [online harms] regulator comes into existence."



    Speaking of more money trouble, Inside Gaming brings you:

    Disclaimer: This video may contain crude content unapproved by Nexon
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    edited July 16, 2019
    Monthly post of updating more progress of loot box shakedowns in the UK.

    Youtuber YongYea recaps the ever growing situation:

    Disclaimer: This video may contain crude language unapproved by Nexon


    Meanwhile, at Sony:
    Sony announce $60 real-life loot boxes for Comic-Con
    Article
  • GretaGreta
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    edited July 16, 2019
    Seriously Sony... First they ruin games with childish censorship and now this real life gambling? Lool.

    P.S: Loving YongYea's videos. Especially when he rants about lootboxes or any other crappy news lol.
    Darkpixie99Sherri
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    edited July 17, 2019
    Greta wrote: »
    Seriously Sony... First they ruin games with childish censorship and now this real life gambling? Lool.

    P.S: Loving YongYea's videos. Especially when he rants about lootboxes or any other crappy news lol.

    I'll try and make an effort to include more of his videos as the situation continues over the next 18 months.
    But seriously Sony... you're not helping.

    I certainly hope Nexon has their UK data ready, and that it's actually scientific.
    While they no longer base in the UK, they still at least provide a service within the region, and may still be liable to be called to stand.
    (In accordance to the video game loot box industry line of logic.)
    If I were Nexon KR and Nexon NA, I would also take EA's previous statement into account, and immediately consider researching your audience, should Uncle Sam demand the same line of statistics as loot box video game industry evidence.
    (Keep in mind that this is a monopoly case as well, you will be doomed to look and owe cash like a dumbbell if you're called to the stand without evidence to support your claims.)
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Greta wrote: »
    Seriously Sony... First they ruin games with childish censorship and now this real life gambling? Lool.

    P.S: Loving YongYea's videos. Especially when he rants about lootboxes or any other crappy news lol.

    Don't forget about the mess they had in the music industry.
    Darkpixie99
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    edited July 17, 2019
    Youtuber Upper Echleon Gamers discusses the loot box system mechanics based off his own experience.

    Disclaimer: This video may contain crude language unapproved by Nexon
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Has there been anyone who either is supportive or playing the devil's advocate on lootboxes? I feel that all this is too one-sided.
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    Has there been anyone who either is supportive or playing the devil's advocate on lootboxes? I feel that all this is too one-sided.

    It's rather difficult to find someone who can agree that gambling is fine, especially with the legal and age restrictions within physical casinos.
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Has there been anyone who either is supportive or playing the devil's advocate on lootboxes? I feel that all this is too one-sided.

    It's rather difficult to find someone who can agree that gambling is fine, especially with the legal and age restrictions within physical casinos.

    Which is why I oppose to one-sidedness on resolving issues. Usually the end result will be one of regret.
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    edited July 17, 2019
    Has there been anyone who either is supportive or playing the devil's advocate on lootboxes? I feel that all this is too one-sided.

    It's rather difficult to find someone who can agree that gambling is fine, especially with the legal and age restrictions within physical casinos.

    Which is why I oppose to one-sidedness on resolving issues. Usually the end result will be one of regret.

    I'll have to see if anything noteworthy of counter argument pops up as I browse Youtube or Google.
    But for now, the general consensus is that if the UK video game industry cannot present statistical evidence against this loot box monopoly, parliament will could take that as an admission of guilt, and pass restrictions or similar anti (child targeting) loot box laws to Belgium.
    (18 Month warning, as previously established.)
    Of course, as an ongoing case, no one in the public (aside from press) has access to that data just yet.

    Here's a year old video by GameSpot:

    Disclaimer: This video contains crude language unapproved by Nexon


    Here's some videos by Extra Credits relative to loot box arguments:




    The following video may be why loot boxes seem more tempting and lucrative as opposed to a standard Cash Shop:


    Meanwhile, in the Mabinogi Auction House economy:


    Kensamaofmari
  • WliaWlia
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    edited July 17, 2019
    safe to say with 1.1% chance for 1 item i would ever want and with 999% chance of trash from any lootbox (gachapon) Mabinogi stays on top of the WORST gacha rates game up to today of year 2019 congrats nexon mabi is great game but up to so far i never have found game that has SO much lame rates as mabi..yet..
    Darkpixie99
  • GretaGreta
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    Wlia wrote: »
    safe to say with 1.1% chance for 1 item i would ever want and with 999% chance of trash from any lootbox (gachapon) Mabinogi stays on top of the WORST gacha rates game up to today of year 2019 congrats nexon mabi is great game but up to so far i never have found game that has SO much lame rates as mabi..yet..

    I heard FIFA 19 has horrible "gacha". Some parents lost like... What? 500$? Because their kids gambled on this game without them noticing and apparently they still didn't get any of the rarest characters lol.
    Seems like the rates are pretty similar to Mabinogi i guess. I hear people wasting like 300-500$ and getting almost nothing new.
    Darkpixie99
  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Greta wrote: »
    Wlia wrote: »
    safe to say with 1.1% chance for 1 item i would ever want and with 999% chance of trash from any lootbox (gachapon) Mabinogi stays on top of the WORST gacha rates game up to today of year 2019 congrats nexon mabi is great game but up to so far i never have found game that has SO much lame rates as mabi..yet..

    I heard FIFA 19 has horrible "gacha". Some parents lost like... What? 500$? Because their kids gambled on this game without them noticing and apparently they still didn't get any of the rarest characters lol.
    Seems like the rates are pretty similar to Mabinogi i guess. I hear people wasting like 300-500$ and getting almost nothing new.

    Well FIFA is one of the most corrupt organizations in the world.
    Darkpixie99
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    edited July 19, 2019
    Greta wrote: »
    Wlia wrote: »
    safe to say with 1.1% chance for 1 item i would ever want and with 999% chance of trash from any lootbox (gachapon) Mabinogi stays on top of the WORST gacha rates game up to today of year 2019 congrats nexon mabi is great game but up to so far i never have found game that has SO much lame rates as mabi..yet..

    I heard FIFA 19 has horrible "gacha". Some parents lost like... What? 500$? Because their kids gambled on this game without them noticing and apparently they still didn't get any of the rarest characters lol.
    Seems like the rates are pretty similar to Mabinogi i guess. I hear people wasting like 300-500$ and getting almost nothing new.

    Well FIFA is one of the most corrupt organizations in the world.

    It's not so much that FIFA players endorse the loot box method, especially towards their younger fans, it's EA who designs the rates and mechanics like Nexon and other companies who do it purely for the profit. (EA who guess what, got thrown into the literal legal fire.)


    More videos by Extra Credits About F2P Monetezation:


    Meanwhile, back in the USA:
    An article discusses reviewing the Supreme Court's 2011 ruling on video game violence, and how it might not stop loot box legislation.

    The Entertainment Software Association would also rely on a First Amendment defense to combat Hawley's legislation. Loot boxes are entirely absent from the trade group's otherwise exhaustive policies page, but the First Amendment section's assertion specifies "Calls to regulate video game content, whatever the reason, infringe upon this guaranteed right."

    "It was the First Amendment's freedom of speech protections that the ESA successfully invoked over a decade ago when California and a wave of other states rolled out legislation to keep violent games out of kids' hands. The fight went all the way to the Supreme Court, which in 2011 affirmed that games are indeed a protected form of free speech and tossed the California law.
    Just because games are recognized as a form of protected speech under the First Amendment doesn't mean they can't be restricted by laws; it just means it's harder to restrict them. Any law looking to curb protected speech must pass a standard of strict scrutiny, which means the government has to have a compelling interest in restricting the speech and the law must achieve that interest using the least restrictive means possible."


    Show your proof providing otherwise, EA, Nexon, everyone in the industry.
    Your silence in court can and will be utilized against you as a sign of guilt.
    While the law contradicts itself, this loot box legislation case can be changed to an industry monopoly case.
    Provide statistical evidence, or risk being included in a monopoly trial.
    *Proof/testimony is not emotion like the Kinder Egg argument, it must be factual, and easy to prove or disprove.

  • KensamaofmariKensamaofmari
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    Hey, FIFA gets to earn free money regardless.
    Darkpixie99
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    edited July 20, 2019
    Video by Yong Yea

    Disclaimer: This video may crude language unapproved by Nexon
  • Darkpixie99Darkpixie99
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    edited July 28, 2019
    So it's been a week, and Yong Yea had dropped another loot box video.
    So yeah, the UK did not find the literal definition of gambling to be gambling.
    My mind is still dead from vacation mode, so I think I'll skip this one until we get word from the US.



    As I have argued many times before:
    There is no value, yet value has been advertised and expressed by both consumer and company.
    So while there is no visible value, there is indeed value in each randomized item.


    And as the literal definition of gambling states, as according to Wikipedia:
    "Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome, with the primary intent of winning money or material goods."